I know this is a very sharp and sensitive issue, but let us see if we could come up with better solutions.

Please give reasoning and, if possible, recommendation to each of your answer.

Do not offend anybody, any government and/or any country. I will be strict on this matter. I regard all of us in this website as highly educated and rational. Please put aside all sentiments and be objective.

My own answer for now is "I am not sure".

Peace.

i really agree....
actually..death sentence is the best choice for them..(crruptors..drug dealers)
moreover if we see the effect of what they have done to other people....
death isn't enough....

agree!

I vote for yes.

However we need to get the most out of it for future deterrence; public humiliation or prolonging the process are two examples.

For the ones proven without a reasonable doubt ... YES !

- for drug smuggling (to a certain degree)
- for corruption (to a certain degree)
- for 1st degree murder

- for rape

I am a pro capital punishment. On one condition : the law system is perfect. Effective, honest, fair and yet CONSIDERATE.

Reason:

1. Nature wants only the perfect species stay. The law of natural selection is evidence in every aspect of life. If you got no strengh you got disease you die. You got no beauty you got no mate you die. You got no brain you got no food you die. And if you got criminal DNA you should die too because nature do not want you to pass on your 'bad' DNA to the next generation.

2. Prison, the so called correctional facility system, is not working. Big waste of money & time. Instead of 'repairing' convicts, altho in some cases it works, what jail does is actually make them worse. Jail is an inhuman place where convicts ( I said convicts not criminals, 2 different things) are becoming criminals, more sadistic and homosexual. I do not detest homosexuality. But on this case the excess is frightening.



Now new questions are coming:

How do we design the perfect law system? Are we able to? And can we perfectly implementing the perfect law in real life?

I am pro-capital punishment for several heinous crimes with severe effects for its victims: 1st degree murder, drug smuggling, rape, terrorism, corruption

This method is better for all people involved, and is superior to the life imprisonment penalty:

For the society: considerable deterrent effect, and no chance of future escapes for the convict

For the convict: spared grim suffering in jail if given life sentence

For the government: spared the burden of coming out with the dough to support lots of prisoners in its jail system

you posted the complete picture of what i was thinking mas ... (thats why i said without a reasonable doubt as short) your question was how do you implement the prefect law ?

Thats a difficult one. Our justice system has a long way to go in its self, and to get the perfect law system there are alot of components involved like the correct authorities to carry out the investigations. Which sadly we are along way of right now. Its impossible to implement the perfect law system even in countries where the law enforcment is *cleaner* then ours.

Even in the movie minority report (even though it is a movie), they knew the future and they still couldnt implement the prefect system. Thats why the death penelty should be implemented for cases where some is caught *red handed* basically.

You dont need the perfect law system as thats probably impossible but when someone is caught on camera or on tape or there are documents that prove a persons guilt then this is the only time this kind of penelty should be enforced.

To tell you the truth taking an example even though im against schapelle corby, if the death penelty where in place and assuming she carried heroin in her bag i still do not think she should get the death penelty because of the few possibilites (even though difficult to believe) that could have led to drugs being placed into her bag.

However if the drugs are strapped to the body for example, then this should be the only time someone should face the death penelty as there is no deny the fact that you knew about the drugs and had the intention of trafficing drugs.

YES
Especially for narkoba dealers and corruptors

4 me, its a YeS

waou... u know what i'd rather die than staying all my life in an indonesian prison !!! but beyond that, philosophically speaking and religiously speaking, i am totally against death penalty...

Just wondering are you a muslim as in the quran, there is a verse in albaraq which states that you may do onto others what they do to you but no more as a form of punishment (eye for an eye) or if you choose so you can forgive.

Doesnt this sort of imply the death penelty ? For example you kill someones father then that person can also retaliate by also killing your father ? He can do no more or not less it must be of equal value.

All semitic religions & cultures implying this Sid.

Philosophy? Tell me about it Garuda.

Sorry to be OT Bohemian, but who r u Icez? You look kinda cute but sad.

I should have said philosophically AND ethically speaking :
The life of any man is crowned and null authority could not vote, judge or decide death of a human being.
Justice is never safe from the miscarriage of justice and the death penalty is the only nonretrievable sorrow, irreversible, without return!
The death penalty never dissuades the criminals to kill and does not have any effect on the rates of criminality. No state which abolished saw its criminality increasing! If one compares the figures Canada/the United States, it is where the capital punishment was abolished that there are less committed crimes!
The death penalty is a violation of the human rights, a treatment cruel, inhuman and degrading, a double torture (makes an attempt in the corridor of death, execution).
The death penalty is an act of revenge which, basically, legitimates violence whereas justice must be returned to pacify the social relations and the civil moeurs. To be effective, justice must remain human and balanced.
The death penalty strikes mainly weak people, most of the time without resources nor means of defending oneself, often members of minorities.
By removing any hope, the death penalty prevents and dissuades condemned to carry out any work of personal and social rehabilitation; it postulates that one can reduce the life of a man to only one act which he would have made.
The death penalty is the prerogative of the authoritative modes where justice is, directly or not, the instrument of the political power and an omnipotent social control.
In a democracy, justice being returned to the people, no one of can assume the right to vote death in our common noun: "not in our name"!
International justice (international penal Court since July 1, 2002 and international courts of the Hague and Arusha) draws aside the death penalty to consider the crimes most odious: crimes against humanity, genocides and war crimes. The international law tends towards universal abolition and encourages the States to abolish the death penalty.

Guys, this thread was meant specifically about the death sentence. To remained focused, please create another thread for another serious question, especially if you think a thorough discussion might be needed.

I dont know about other religions cause I havnt read about them but i was asking the question because i was wondering why garuda was religiously opposed to it if he is a muslim when the quran does kind of imply the death penelty. Thats all, was just curious as to what he ment religiously. I guess its cleared up now

And bohemian, is the above that i just wrote off topic as i do think its somewhat related or is anak baeks attempt to hookup with icez what you where refering to as off topic 2

Wow, im so far behind now...
4 me, if i really deserve e death punishment..den nvm, juz go ahead lar..


To A.Baek: Thanx 4 e praise, nahh im nt sad..

Death sentence....?

I vote for Yes....

Especially for drugs abuse cases, crime against humanity (mass killing), terrorism, incite riots and hatred towards another groups (this used to be called SARA - things related to suku, agama, ras, and antar golongan - in Suharto regime... ), corruption, extremely shockingly sadist crime (rape followed with homicide and mutilation of corpse), and sexual abuse to children.

Afterall Indonesia is the 4th largest population in the world, wasting a few disgusting criminals and have 'em executed is not a lost for our country.
This also gave the community example of law enforcement.

Mas Sid,

2 Of course, I didn't think Anak Baek's or your questions as wrong or OT. I was more "concerned" to the question:

QUOTE

How do we design the perfect law system? Are we able to? And can we perfectly implementing the perfect law in real life?

I think these are good questions and they deserve a proper Q/A forum. I believe it'd be another intelligent, sharp dan smart thread.

What do you think?

Yesmil, ”Diharapkan Akan Membuat Jera”
MA Memvonis Mati 9 Tersangka Ekstasi

JAKARTA, (PR).-
Sembilan pengelola pabrik ekstasi terbesar di Asia yang beroperasi di Cikande, Serang Provinsi Banten yang digerebek polisi tahun 2005, dijatuhi hukuman mati. Putusan pidana mati yang ditetapkan Majelis Kasasi Mahkamah Agung (MA) tersebut, sebagai bentuk penolakan atas permohonan kasasi yang diajukan para terdakwa. Putusan MA tersebut dibacakan majelis, Selasa (29/5). Demikian dikemukakan juru bicara MA, Djoko Sarwoko di Jakarta, Selasa (29/5).
PARA tersangka diamankan polisi pada penggerebekan pabrik ekstasi dan sabu-sabu terbesar di Asia, di Kp. Tegal, Desa Cemplang, Kec. Jawilan, Serang, Banten, 11 November 2005. Majelis kasasi Mahkamah Agung, Selasa (29/5) menetapkan pidana mati untuk sembilan pengelola pabrik tersebut.*IRMAN NUGRAHA/"PR"

Kriminolog Unpad, Yesmil Anwar menilai, putusan MA tersebut membuktikan sistem pengadilan sudah cukup baik untuk membentengi masyarakat dari ancaman bahaya narkoba dan psikotropika.

Dijelaskan Yesmil, dalam politik hukum nasional, kejahatan narkoba termasuk kejahatan internasional dan transnasional. Dengan demikian, penanganan terhadap para pelakunya dilakukan secara khusus, karena narkoba dan psikotropika sangat membahayakan peradaban umat manusia.

Untuk mencegah dan membuat jera mereka yang akan melakukan kejahatan tersebut, para pelaku harus dihukum berat, terlebih undang-undang yang ada tidak menafikan hukuman mati.

Berperan utama

Ke-9 tersangka yang dipidana mati tersebut masing-masing dua warga negara Indonesia (WNI) yakni Benny Sudrajat alias Benny Oe alias Tandi Winardi dan Iming Santoso alias Budhi Cipto, lima WNA asal Cina yakni Zhang Manquan (42), Chen Hongxin (36), Jian Yuxin (37), Gan Chunyi (43), dan Zhu Xuxiong (35). Sedangkan dua tersangka pidana mati lainnya adalah Nicolaas Garnick alias d!ck (Belanda) dan Serge Atlaoui (Prancis).

Sebelumnya, Pengadilan Negeri (PN) Tangerang pada 6 November 2006 hanya memidana mati Benny Sudrajat dan Iming Santoso, karena dianggap sebagai tokoh kunci manajemen pabrik ekstasi tersebut. Bahkan, pidana ini diperkuat lagi oleh putusan tingkat banding Pengadilan Tinggi (PT) Serang pada 16 Januari 2007.

Dalam struktur perusahaan, Benny Sudrajat dan Iming Santoso adalah Komisaris dan Direktur Utama PT Sumako Jaya Abadi yang waktu itu beroperasi di Jln. Raya Rangkasbitung KM 17 Desa Cemplang Kec. Jawilan Cikande, Serang, Provinsi Banten.

Sedangkan tujuh terdakwa lainnya yang semuanya WNA, oleh pengadilan tingkat pertama justru hanya dipidana masing-masing 20 tahun penjara. Kelima WNA asal Cina tersebut adalah ahli mesin. Sedangkan Garnick dan Atlaoui, sebagai ahli kimia yang meracik ekstasi hingga menghasilkan 5.000 butir/hari. Hukuman kepada Garnick dan Atlaoui oleh majelis tingkat banding sempat dikoreksi dari 20 tahun penjara menjadi seumur hidup.

Djoko Sarwoko mengatakan, majelis kasasi memandang sembilan terdakwa berperan utama dalam pengelolaan pabrik ekstasi sehingga harus dihukum mati. Selain itu, majelis juga menghukum masing-masing 20 tahun penjara tiga juru bayar pabrik ekstasi Cikande yakni Samad Sani alias Agus alias Atjai, Arden Christian alias Kevin Saputra, dan Hendra Raharja (pembantu umum).

Sebagaimana diberitakan "PR", aksi komplotan pabrik ekstasi Cikande tersebut, berhasil dibongkar polisi pada 11 November 2005. Saat penggerebekan, memang pabrik tersebut belum sempat menghasilkan ekstasi. Dalam praktiknya, pabrik tersebut telah melakukan berbagai tes bahan-bahan kimia sampai memproduksi MDMA (bahan dasar ekstasi) dan sabu.

Dari penyidikan Polri, peran sembilan terdakwa dimotori oleh tokoh sindikat narkoba internasional yakni Peter Wong (Hong Kong) dan Max (Belanda). Dalam persidangan di Pengadilan Negeri Tangerang, Peter Wong yang sesungguhnya membiayai operasi pabrik Cikande. (A-84)***

[LL i can see in this topic is "I" and "you": "Personally i wouldn't want...."
"I think..."
you're not the victim.. anyways how would u feel if you're part of their family and everyone's just posting unecessary topic like this to get what people think.. wouldnt you get offended.. oh BTW the first person to post this topic said "NOTHING OFFENSIVE" yeah.. by posting this post is already very offensive..

Indonesia is already full of corrupted minds.. why bother to put a death penalty.. if you put a death penalty for this type of matter would you want to put DEATH PENALTY TO EVERYONE. It also mentions about how drug dealing is giving a bad influence to the future 'young generation.' whatever man.. that's just a bloody reason to say 'this person derserves to die because of his work' in a polite way. SO WHAT if drug dealers are corrupting oung generations.. isnt it already corrupted anyways??!! if people can say that then why can't the government do anything about it.. OBVIOUSLY it's uncontrolable.. and we have to admit 50% above who are posting this comment surely goes CLUBBING in indonesia... we've ALL seen how these ppl are.. then why is it the dealers fault.. THEY NEED IT.. so dealers are just there to supply them.. if WE want to change then start off by stoping the bloody addicts from buying them..

YOU ALL cAN SAY 'YES' to death penalty ... then have you ever picture urself as the person being the victim and facing death penalty,.. AND 'NO' don't say 'i prefer to die then to live in the detention cell' that's bull$hit.. no one really wants to die.. CELLS ARE BETTER! .... why would u want t end/give up urlife just like that when u still have the chance to breath in this earth... have u ever thought about the victim's family.. yeah im sure NOT..

seriously... you indonesian (well i am one too) are so offensive and so inconsiderate of others.. do you think posting this post will resolve the PROBLEM?! ... Kalo memang smua penjual narkotik & org korupsi musti di HUkum mati dan mengapa lebih dr 1/2 org di indonesia masi hidup?!..... udah deh PLIS END THIS TOPIK OK??!!! unless you've felt the feeling of death penalty and you want to share your thoughts!!!!!!!...

AND NO I DISAGREE WITH DEATH PENALTY!

^you must be really skeptical......
either you live in Indonesia hating your surroundings or you live in a overseas country hating Indonesia....
You can troll we don't mind...

Edit* next time just used normal fonts it's a bit hard to read with big and bold fonts.

Im sure u had a hard time reading it... soo hard that you made a reply for my post.. [size="6"][/size]

^Yeah very much......and is that why you edit it ??
oohhh after all you got SOME good intentions.... not just being malicious, especially to your own kind....

is it wrong to edit it?? .... afterall it's my post...

oh and dude... seriously.. if ur previous post was an ironic statement.. then it's VERY LAME... seriously..

Nothing wrong with editing....double posting is wrong though...
Well is that all you can say ??? Changing the topic ? and start saying $hit about my statement ?? people usually do that when they got no more ideas left. How old are you btw ?

Death Penalty is good. But, death penalty must not be applied in Indon.

Why?

If death penalty is applied in Indon, can you guarantee genocide won't happen in Indon?

Too many Indons become corruptors, rioters, racists, murderers, Rapists, Drug dealers, and all kind of evil doers. How many millions of Indons must be executed based on their crimes? Tens of millions of Indons will be put on death penalty.

So, I disagree with the application of death penalty in Indon. It is not human to apply death penalty in Indon. It is a genocide!!

^omg I'm really tired of explaining this but WE DO NOT LIKE TO BE CALLED WITH THE TERM 'INDON', IT INSULTS US GREATLY.....

and if you just want to be malicious you can get out.

We got our death penalty and not all people who was sentenced died.......there was one amn who was sentenced in the 60s and never got shot.....

it's really sad but yes

What a lot of trolls here...
In my opinion death sentence is the only sollution for serial killers, pedofils, terrorists and everyone who is a real threat?/thread?(ya..ancaman) for the stability and unity of Indonesia

^Threat Mas.....
iya agree banyak troll...

If people say the truth, you call them troll? You can't handle the truth?

What a pity !

By the way, your nick name is KOPASSUS. It means Elite military of Indon. Comandos. Elite military of Indon/Kopassus is famous of their role for kidnapping, torturing and murdering pro-democracy students/civilians. Kopassus was heavily involved in anti Chinese riots in Tragedy May 1998. Kopassus is full of animals. Kopassus is a pain in the assess of Indon's good people !

So, youre not a troll?

^LOLS

@Otong


Well, you're imposing your views on us....We do not believe in them, thats not our version of the 'truth'. You only can say a statement without giving any backing/ evidence.....how do you know Kopassus does all the things you claimed ?? Were you one of them ??

Being Malicious/Accusing people = Troll

BTW I don't really think your from Indonesia at all or Indonesian at all, Indonesian don't call them selves 'Indon' (LIKE I SAID) most likely malingsia (reading your other post) and Indonesian like to speak Indonesian to their own kind or at least use some Indonesians word....Stop lying, You're compromised and GTFO.

I'm sorry but I vote for "no". The reason is because you can't be 100% sure that the person is guilty and there is no going back once the sentence is carried out.

Recently in Australia a man who was hanged for the rape and murder of a teenage girl some 80 years ago was found on DNA evidence to be not guilty, he recieved a pardon and the pprocess to remove his conviction is currently underway. His family obviously feel glad that an injustice has been overturned, by the same token it doesn't bring him back and it is still a life lost that shouldn't have been lost.

80 years ago?
All the DNA has to be lost/gone after such a time.

******************


So, you want any evidences that Indon Military or ABRI or Kopassus really have done evil things, such as: murdering, raping, instigating riots, corrupting people's money, torturing, kidnapping pro - democracy/civilians/innoncent people?

Please read the article below. The article come from AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL


*********************


http://fra.controlarms.org/library/Index/E...&of=ENG-344


News Service 98/97

AI INDEX: ASA 21/39/97
3 JUNE 1997

Indonesia and East Timor:
Arms and security transfers undermine human rights



Amnesty International recognises the legitimate role that governments have in maintaining security forces to quell violent dissent. In Indonesia, however, the military play a prominent role in quelling peaceful dissent and, in their handling of violent dissent, they have frequently committed serious human rights violations including torture, extrajudicial executions and disappearances.


Indonesias Armed Forces (ABRI) are focused primarily on combatting internal dissent rather than external threats. Their role is to monitor and suppress violent and peaceful dissent throughout Indonesia and East Timor. In order to do this, the Armed Forces are empowered to conduct arrests, interrogations and detentions. In the course of its operations, ABRI has committed unlawful killings, disappearances and torture and arbitrary arrests. There is a lack of transparency in the security forces actions which is exacerbated by the fact that human rights monitors are denied access to particular areas of Indonesia and East Timor where soldiers are confronting violent opposition. The media is also restricted in its access to certain areas of Indonesia and East Timor.

The Armed Forces are currently engaged in putting down violent unrest in three areas - the territory of East Timor, the province of Aceh and Irian Jaya. Amnesty International continues to document human rights violations in all three areas. In East Timor, regular violations are committed by members of ABRI against alleged armed rebels and against peaceful pro-independence activists. Recent increased rebel activity in East Timor and Aceh raises fears that human rights violations will be a part of the militarys response. Already there have been killings of alleged armed rebels in Aceh by Kopassus forces which warrant further investigation.


In addition, the level of impunity for members of the Armed Forces who commit violations remains high. There is no apparatus which consistently ensures that members of ABRI are held to account for violations of human rights. Confirmation of unlawful killings and other findings and recommendations of Indonesias own National Commission for Human Rights are frequently ignored by the Government.


All of the factors outlined above contribute to a high potential for misuse of military and security equipment or training transferred to ABRI, placing a great responsibility on supplying countries to ensure that there are effective safeguards preventing such misuse for human rights violations. This is especially the case when the monitoring of the use of such equipment is severely hampered because of the restrictions on access for human rights investigators.

Because of these factors and the continuing prominent role of the Indonesian Armed Forces in suppressing internal dissent, Amnesty International is calling for a halt to the transfer of a range of military and security equipment and training to Indonesia, including armoured personnel carriers, assault rifles and sub-machine guns, and lethal training for the special forces. The organization considers that serious questions must also be asked about transfers of other types of military, security and police equipment, technology and training to Indonesia to determine whether there is a risk that such equipment or training could be used to violate human rights and whether safeguards against such use will be effective.


A history of killings and disappearances


Extrajudicial executions and disappearances are among the recently documented human rights violations committed by the Armed Forces in Indonesia and East Timor. The majority of killings and disappearances which have taken place in recent years have not been fully or independently investigated and the perpetrators in most cases have not been held to account.

* In October 1996, Indonesias National Human Rights Commission found that one of those killed during the raid of the Indonesian Democratic Party (Partai Demokrasi Indonesia -PDI) office and the riots which followed was shot. The raid was carried out by a rival faction of the PDI and the security forces. The authorities have not further investigated the death. No one has been held to account.

* In September 1996, two men were shot and killed by the military as they drove through a road block between Baucau and Viqueque in East Timor. Eyewitnesses said that the men were unarmed and that they were civilians. An inquiry into their deaths was announced by Indonesias National Human Rights Commission, but the results of the inquiry are not known.

* In April 1996, Paulo dos Reis was shot dead in Waitame, East Timor, by a soldier after he threw a stone at two Indonesian soldiers. A soldier was sentenced to eight months imprisonment for the death.

* In May 1995, 11 civilians were shot dead by the military in the village of Hoea in Irian Jaya. In 1996, four soldiers were tried and convicted of three of the deaths, but no-one has yet been held accountable for the remaining eight deaths.

* In November 1991, at least 100 and possibly as many as 270 people were killed when the Armed Forces opened fire on a peaceful demonstration in Dili. There has yet to be an impartial and thorough investigation of the killings and the fate of those who disappeared.

* Between 1989 and 1993, an estimated 2,000 unarmed civilians were killed by the Armed Forces in Aceh. Not one of these deaths has been investigated.




Military, security and police transfers leading to human rights violations

The Indonesian Government has failed to take the necessary steps to prevent members of the Indonesian Armed Forces from committing unlawful killings. The incidence of such violations is higher in areas where human rights monitors and the media are restricted in their access. Until steps are taken to make the Armed Forces properly accountable for human rights, it is likely that these serious violations will continue.

Recently, a number of governments have decided unilaterally to halt or discourage transfers of arms and security equipment to Indonesia, while other governments have authorized new transfers with little regard for the serious patterns of human rights violations in the country. Amnesty International is repeating its appeals to key arms trading partners of Indonesia to stop those military, security and police transfers which are likely to contribute to deliberate and arbitrary killings, disappearances and torture by the Indonesian security forces.

Transfer of machine guns and assault rifles

German designed sub-machine guns supplied in 1995 from the United Kingdom are being used by security forces in Indonesia. The UK Government has stated in answer to questions by MPs that it approved nine export licences for small arms to Indonesia over the period 1993-5, but has refused to reveal what types and quantities of arms have been included in these. Indonesian security forces also use assault rifles made in Indonesia under licence from a company in Belgium.

In January 1994, the US Government stated that it was halting the supply of small arms including rifles and crowd control equipment to Indonesia. In 1995 there were reports that the Indonesian authorities were trying to negotiate a contract with Australia to obtain an undisclosed number of Austrian-designed assault rifles.

Amnesty International considers that in the current situation in Indonesia foreign governments could impose no effective conditions or limits to ensure that assault rifles and machine guns are not used to commit killings of peaceful demonstrators or other unlawful killings or other serious human rights violations.

Training in marksmanship and in close quarter battle houses

It has been reported that foreign companies based in the United Kingdom are providing training to the Indonesian military unit, Kopassus, and possibly other units whose members have carried out deliberate and arbitrary killings, "disappearances" and other serious human rights violations. This training is said to include firearms marksmanship and counter-insurgency training in urban settings. It has also been reported that since 1994 the Australian government has exchanged military personnel with Indonesia for training and as part of the 1995 Treaty on Maintaining Security has encouraged close cooperation between Australian and Indonesian special forces.

Armed opposition groups operate in three areas, Irian Jaya, East Timor and Aceh. In the context of counter-insurgency operations, there is a history of extrajudicial executions by the security forces of alleged armed and unarmed opponents of the Indonesian Government. In Aceh between 1989 and 1993, 2,000 unarmed people were believed to have been killed by the security forces. Unarmed civilians have also been the victims of unlawful killings in recent years in Irian Jaya and in the territory of East Timor.

It is likely that marksmanship training will be used in the context of these counter-insurgency operations and will lead to further unlawful killings. In view of the exclusion from these areas of human rights monitors and the media, it will not be possible to adequately monitor the implementation of this training.

Amnesty International is also concerned that training in close quarter battle houses will be used in the context of counter-insurgency operations which may lead to human rights violations. Assault raids have already been used against peaceful opponents of the government as seen, for example, in the raid against the headquarters of the Indonesian Democratic Party (PDI) in July 1996. During the raid excessive force was used and there are allegations that individuals were killed. The authorities however prevented any attempts to ascertain whether any people had died during the raid or the extent of injuries.

Given the almost complete lack of accountability and human rights training of security forces in Indonesia, Amnesty International is calling for a cessation of lethal training for the Indonesian special forces.

Armoured combat vehicles (ACVs) and armoured personnel carriers (APCs)

In July 1996, following the use of APCs to suppress protest with excessive force in which at least three students were killed in Ujung Pandang in April 1996, the US government explicitly included APCs in its export ban on human rights grounds. Nevertheless, a UK company has, since 1994, been upgrading Indonesias armoured patrol vehicles. Another UK firm was reported in January 1997 as having sold 286 patrol vehicles and at least 17 riot control vehicles to Indonesia. In April 1996 UK-supplied APCs were used to quell riots by students in Ujung Pandang in South Sulawesi in which at least three students were killed by the military. Scores more were injured. In addition, a French company was reported in February 1997 to be supplying an Indonesian army unit in Bandung with 18 armoured patrol vehicles fitted with 12.7mm and 7.63mm machine guns. Another French company is reportedly competing to sell many more wheeled APCs.

Amnesty International is opposed to the provision of such armoured vehicles to Indonesia at present because of the potential to use their mounted guns for political killings, to facilitate arbitrary arrests and torture, as well as to command and control such operations.

Water cannon and chemical dyes

Riot control vehicles supplied from the UK to Indonesia during 1994-5 were fitted with powerful water cannons designed to use both tear gas as well as pink dye. Both types of chemicals have been reportedly used by Indonesian security forces on street protestors.

It is known that such dye has been used to mark street protestors in Jakarta. On 23 May 1997, a photograph and report of a riot control vehicle using pink dye was published by a UK newspaper. The UK Government has stated that it is opposed to the use of such dye by the Indonesia authorities and agreed on 12 February 1997 to investigate reports of the misuse of the water cannon. Nevertheless, it has been reported to Amnesty International that further transfers of such water cannon to Indonesia from the UK are being considered.

Amnesty International believes that as long as arbitrary arrests and ill-treatment by the security forces are common in Indonesia, and until the UK Government has reported the results of its investigation into the misuse of water cannon to Parliament and can offer reasonable assurances that such transfers will not be misused again, such transfers should be stopped.

Surveillance equipment

In 1996 it was reported that the Indonesian security forces had acquired a sophisticated UK computer surveillance system which would enable them to monitor protestors as well as traffic and criminal suspects. One UK company is currently reported to be coordinating a project to provide the Indonesian government with an integrated air, foot and road mounted system for the security forces to monitor demonstrations.

Amnesty International is opposed to the supply of this kind of computerised surveillance technology to the Indonesian authorities as long as the Indonesian security forces continue to carry out serious human rights violations, including arbitrary arrests and ill-treatment.


**********************


The the news above is a strong evidence about how Indon Military or ABRI or KOPASSUS have committed brutal actions against civilians/students/innoncent people.

My questions is: Why Indons have no shame to support or deny any brutal actions which have been committed by Indon Military? Is it because Indons are as barbaric as their army? Is it?

^So ??? It' amnesty international......
I really like it, that you have an evidence know...but are this evidence reliable ?? Amnesty International scrutinies everyone even Australia....What do you expect ??? They're old articles anyway....we had our reforms after those...


Why not you try to get over with it and deal with the problems your fu-king country have.....You like to change the topic ay ?? I'm trying to be polite here but you, you're just being rude and malicious, Maling bangsat lo....

I agree but apparently they did manage to extract some DNA from hair samples fround in the accused room.

Essentially these hair samples were provided as evidence that the victim had been in the man's room. DNA evidence today confirms that the hair did not belong to the victim. I guess there is still a possibility that he could still be guilty but he had proclaimed his innocence until his execution, something from what I understand guilty people rarely do. Anyway when the hair samples were removed as evidence it was determined that there was not enough evidence to find him guilty, therefore he has been pardoned. Apparently it is only in the courts that convicted him where the guilty verdict can be overturned and that is currently under process.

The bottom line though is that an execution is final, and it leaves no correction for error. No matter how water tight the case may be we still have to accept that the process of justice is not infallable and that is why I generally don't believe in the death penalty, as much as I sometimes would like to see some people recieve it.

Maybe we can amend it so that the death penalty is only permissable when someone pleads guilty in open court. But then who would openly admit to any such crime?

@ the guy who ask us-"the indons"- whether we are as barbaric as our army : In the first place, how can you point finger at us just because you read a few articles from the newspaper or whatsoever. You were not in the place when the incidents happened. And the media tends to report and "highlights" the negative news. This is because such news are "selling". When such intention exists, the news are prone to subjectivity and exaggeration.

Keep it going.....keep it going....Let's see how long you could last.

YES, didnt read anything yet, but YES. death penalty is always a beautiful thing.

keep it coming.......keep it coming...

"Im not a troll"

Dear troll, please, this tread is about death sentence, not about how much you hate INDONS...

^that what makes him a troll....