Can anyone tell me about the history of the Catonese. Were they always part of China with the Han, or did they have their own nation before?

Well, the inhabitants of the Guangdong region (Cantonese) are mainly a result of intermixing from more Northern migrants with local tribes (mainly of Malay-Viet stock) Guangdong officially started to become assimilated into China probably by the end of the Tang to Song dynasty.

Tang dynasty (618 A.D. - 907 A.D.)

Song dynasty (960 A.D. - 1127 A.D.)

BTW, Byron, the caption in the poster does not say "death before slavery." I don't know where you got that translation from... It says "Vietnam is destine to win, U.S. is destine to lose."

I've been wondering about that... My ancestry comes from Toishan, but my parents were born in Guangdong (Guangzhou) and the fact that my language is a dialect of Cantonese...

About the Cantonese, in Amy Tan's books, she refers to them as "village people", is that what Northern Chinese think when they hear "Cantonese"?

The very ideal of "northerners" and "southerners" is history. In the past decades, communication and transportation within China has improved greatly. People no longer stay in their own city or village, instead they move to wherever they can find job opportunities. As people move, they will intermarry with the locals. In major cities, it's very rare to find someone whose parents and/or grandparents are ALL from the same place. This is especially true for those from Taiwan because after the KMT was defeated by the CCP in 1949, KMT supporters from all over China retreated to Taiwan. Therefore, many Chinese in Taiwan have grandparents from all over China. I myself am 1/4 Henan, 1/4 Jiangsu, and 1/2 Sichuan.

LOL that's what I thought...

anyways

I was told that during Yuan dynasty, upperclass/northern people labeled Cantonese people as savages. Of course, Southern people were at the bottom of the castle system (first-mongolians, second-foreigners, third-north/han people)

yeah, that's somewhat true. But in China, there are still many people who have lived on the land for generations. You are different because your family are mainlanders who fled to Taiwan. Therefore, they obviously mixed together because of the proximity. But in China, you still find many peasants whose family has always been in Shaanxi or Henan or Hubei.

During the Yuan dynasty, there were four social classes.

1. Mongols (of course )
2. Semu ("colored-eyes")
3. Han (northern Han Chinese)
4. Song (southern Han Chinese)

Southern Han Chinese were called "Song" because before Mongols took over the whole China, northern China, Jin dynasty, was controlled by the Khitan/Jurchen, southern China, Song dynasty, was controlled by Han Chinese.



Yeah, that's why I said "in major cities, it's very rare to find someone whose parents and/or grandparents are ALL from the same place."

But in any country, peasants will be much less likely to move out of their home village, not just China.

Ok I fixed my caption. I got the original false translation from some Spanish website. Thanks for the information about the Catonese.

When I hear "Cantonese" (Guangdongren), I think of Dr. Sun Yatsen, one of my personal heroes. I admit, I also sometimes think of dimsum

It's 'Cantonese' not Catonese. I am Cantonese native from Tseung Kwan O, Hong Kong.

Heh, I just noticed he misspelled Cantonese.

Then again, it's just a English name for Guangdongren (how do you say it in Cantonese?) anyway...

Gong dong yun - Cantonese

Herng gong yun - Hong Kong people

i always thought it was "yan" more than "yun" now think again it might be "yun"...

weird... Byron's picture looks old, but the characters are simplified chinese o.o

Actually I've always thought it was "yan" too. At least that's what my Cantonese friends taught me.

Well translating pinyin for Cantonese is quite difficult. IMO 'yun' is much closer than 'yan'. 'Yan' sounds like someone speaking Cantonese with a mainland accent.

In Toishanese, I think it's "Gong Dong Eean"

It's the last part I'm unsure of... I can pronounce it, but I can't quite get the English pronounciation right... I'll just leave it at that...

As a Taishanese (which I guess, is also classified as a Cantonese) I can tell you who we are exactly. We are descendants of the first Chinese Jihad Freedom Fighter, Mohammed Chang, who managed to brilliantly fuse Islamic ideology with Eastern philosophy. This is why my Chinese Jihad Society of Berkeley has a new policy of waivering the enrollment fee for people of Cantonese (esp. Taishanese descent).

in reality, aren't there actual chinese muslims called "Hui" or something? Can you tell me something about them Rongji in the name of allah the merciful?

We are descendants of the first Chinese Jihad Freedom Fighter, Mohammed Chang, who managed to brilliantly fuse Islamic ideology with Eastern philosophy

Where did you get this information from?

And how many of us are there?

Uhh... yea. They're called the Hui and they're muslims. What else is there to know?



It was passed down by the long lost, ancient scriptures of Mohammed Chang which I was one day able to channel telepathically, while under an acid trip.

What? Are you telling me that the Taishanese/Toishanese are descendants of a Chinese Jihad Fighter?

The only thing I know, is that our language is similar to Cantonese...

English: one
Toishanese: yeet
Cantonese: yaat (yut)
Mandarin: yi

English: three
Toishanese: saam (sum or som)
Cantonese: saam
Mandarin: san

And that we're from Toishan...

*sigh* how naive... lol

Not only is Taishanese descendants of a Chinese Jihad Fighter, but they are also the originally from Siberia. For more information on Taishanese, click here.

Haha.. That's great. Siu Wan, you have to go back to your ancestrial homeland to 'bai' Mohammed Chang.

i dont like how some northerners discriminate against the cantonese like they are superior or something.

Huh? When? How? Who? Where???

Haha yeah they do that alot and I put up with it. It's because of stereotypes and physical appearance.

But we are all Hans or all Chinese. We shouldn't be discriminating against each other.

Being mostly northern Chinese by blood, I've rarely heard or seen northern Chinese look down on southern Chinese. I've always thought this is something of the past.

Vince is right, we are all Han Chinese. We have enough enemies as it is...

That's good that you don't think that way but im certain there is some negative sentiments about southern, mostly cantonese chinese, from the north side. I am not saying anybody here is, but im sure you guys know what im talking about.

Anyways, if there was to be one, what would be considered the purest chinese ethnicity or what region they would be from.

Well not on this forum. There were a few times at "That Board" and I had to constantly remind people that we were all Chinese. I'm sure theres an equal amount of discrimination on both sides but it rarely comes out in public. The difference and stereotypes are noticable though.

Probably Henan province.

ugh
nipple hair
I should have known better...

It's Siu Wai... It's Cantonese...

In Mandarin, it's "Xiao Hui"
In Toishanese, it's "Siu Fee"

I don't want to go all the way to Siberia...

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Kulong, that's just wrong and sick... If you don't have the info, don't bother with the link... Is it because I'm Toishan?

Talking about discrimination, I have to deal with insults at my Toishan background for almost 2 and a half years as well as suffer through almost 6 years of racism because I'm Chinese... I'm not going to stand for it...

How sad is this, Chinese even discriminate against Chinese.

Now I'm beginning to think it's a mistake of trying to talk about my background... I wanted to find info on the Cantonese and Toishanese...

I get back a bunch of what I assume are jokes...

---------------
BACKGROUND
Taishan City was formed in 1499. Situated in the southwest of the Pearl River delta in Guangdong province, it covers a vast area of 2,042 square miles with about 20 towns and 3,655 villages. It has a long coastline of 365 miles and 95 islands. The city is also blessed with fertile land and mild weather. The city has a population of about one million; however, there are 1.3 million Taishanese living outside of Taishan scattered around the world in 91 countries. Taishanese began emigrating overseas during the Qing Dynasty in 1774, about 228 years ago.

Take a couple chill pills, Siu Wai

It was a joke. It's just funny how you fell for Xiao Rong Ji's joke about Taishanren being descendents of "Mohammed Chang"

There are no clear hatred between northerners and southerners anymore. No more than west coast dislike the east coast in the U.S. at least -shurg

But we should realize we have enough foreign pests to deal with *ahem* tqt *ahem* instead of picking on each other

You really think I'll fall for that Chinese Jihad stuff? Don't you think I have a friend whose relatives are Catholics and Muslims?

ni gong meh yeh?

ngor mmh joong yi ni gong gall ee yeh...

<sigh> take it easy dude...

BTW, I don't speak Cantonese.

My parents and I always say "yan" too.
And yes, my parents are from the mainland.: )

o_O wouldn't it be more close to...

"ley gong mut yeh ar?"

then (i'm not sure what ur trying to say BUT if u're trying to say "i do'nt like it when you lie" it would be)

"ngo ng joong yi lay gong dai wah"

All Chinese are from China.

Pin ko gong tai wah, hing tai? mey see ar?

Damn.. I have no idea what you're saying. We need a more standardized method on Cantonese pinyin.

"Pin ko gong tai wah, hing tai? mey see ar?"

Been goh gong dai wah, hing dei?

Mey see ar? are you saying there is no problem? What?

It's Toishanese...

For "What are you talking about?" and "I don't like you saying this stuff."

-------------------
KoRn, you've got the Cantonese version down...
"ngo ng joong yi lay gong dai wah"

More like in the translation of "I don't like it when you lie."

But in Toishanese, its more along the lines of
"ngor mmh joong yi ni gong ai wah"

In Cantonese, it's "dai"
In Toishanese, it's "ai", more like Mandarin for short.
-----------------------------
Been goh gong dai wah, hing dei?

"Mo yan gong dai wah."

Um Hay, It's "what's happening"

Oh.. most people say 'Mut yea see ar'? (Mandarin: shenme shi ah?)

Doesn't "Mut Yea" sound like Mey(ar) when spoken?

ugh. i tired to follow that. Cantonese has got to be one of the hardest to sound out in english.