I read tengkuafif post in 'Singapore was an Indian kingdom' thread..
He said that it is hard to find young malay nationalists..
Well, which one are you?


Malay nationalists..
Chinese nationalists..
Indian nationalists
Orang asli nationalitst..
Serani nationalists..
Kadazan nationalists
Iban nationalists

or

Malaysia nationalists..

Which one are you?

It is different if you being a race nationalist rather than malaysia nationlist?
Which one is better?

@Tengkuafif - I didn't mean to bash you.. Hope you can understand.. It is just another stupid Q from me..

To become a Malay nationalist means that you are to become a Malaysian nationalist too.
But Chinese nationalists are not Malaysian nationalists.

^ i'm sorry.. but if he or she is a chinese or indian or maybe org asli, they need to become a Malay nationalist in order for them to become a Malaysia nationalist?

Of course not.
A non-Malay should not use their identity to represent the Malaysia nationalism. If they keep using the word Chinese nationalism, it is more appropriate for them to move back to China. Thus, they can only opt for Malaysia nationalism but not any other non-Malay nationalism.
As for the Malays,we can use the term Malay nationalism. The term Malay nationalism and Malaysia nationalism is interchangeable.Furthmore we are the native of this land. Malay nationalism or Malaysian nationalism are acceptable. Other types of racial nationalism are considered as rebellious movement.

Sorry again.. if there is an orang asli nationalist, than it is ok, isn't it? since org asli also malaysia's native people..

Orang Asli are not demanding people like the Chinese.
Yes they can have that, but it is unlikely to happen.

Instead of we keep on with Malay nationalism and Malaysia nationlaism, why don't we concetrate with Malaysia nationalism.. The chinese and the indian isn't live here for nothing.. they contribute to the country as well.. Malaysia is not Malaysia without them..

By the way, i doesn't mean that Malay nationalist isn't good..

I agree with all tengkuafif replies in this thread

and I must add, those stupid anti-Malay racists have only themselves to blame for provoking retaliations from self-respecting Malays.


Whatever few "Malay nationalists" in Asiafinest will only trash other races if they ask for it.


If for any reason you don't want to stand up for your ppl, the least you could do is to refrain from discouraging those who do.

The Chinese and Indians isn't here for nothing?
I think it's the other way round.
The Chinese and Indians remain here because the Malays contribute for them.
And,if this land has got nothing, do you think that they will stay here?
Like I said, Malaysian nationalism is based on the Malay nationalism.
Likewise,Malay agenda is a national agenda too.

Good topic Sam

Let's first define nationalism.
1.Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
2.The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals
3.Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

I am first and foremost a Malaysian nationalist, in that I believe that it is in Malaysia' best interest to form a true bangsa Malaysia that we all can truly be proud of. When Nicole David was crowned as world No 1 in squash, weren't we all proud? When we last won the Thomas Cup, didn't all Malaysians give our full support to Razif and Jailani Sidek and Cheah Soon Kit and Soo Beng Kiang? This is the true Malaysia spirit.

Being Malay is just part of who I am, just like I am a Muslim. An undeniable, inherent part of my very identity. I fully agree with the IM and Afif here in that the Malay nationalism is inextricably linked with Malaysian nationalism, as it has always been since independence. Malays will always be the first amongst equals. We just must not forget that we share our land with Malaysians of other races as well.

I think something has to be said about Nusantara. While he is Indonesian, I feel that he is also a Malay nationalist, from the cultural point of view.

BTW, here's a photo taken at a Malaysian Christmas open house here in Aberdeen. We only realised that it was so multi-racial only after it was taken

Chinese, Indian and Malay in background. But all Malaysian

^nice pic Malaccan..

agree with you too..

ermm..this topic make me want to transform back to my alien state.. and I miss my lil cyborg too..

^ i have to add another one then.. alien nationalist..

So the chinese and indian can only become a Malaysia nationalist only.. but the Malay can be both..
In my POV.. it is better if we concetrate to one nationalist..

You've got that correct samheisfl.
Just take it this way.
Consider yourself living as an Arab in France.
To be well accepted by the French mainstream society,would you rather opt for the French nationalism or the Arab nationalism?
Of course, you would opt for French nationalism wouldn't you?
You are not less an Arab by accepting the French nationalism.
Furthermore, Arab culture is not part of the French culture.
And how would the native French feel if an another race comes up with an idea which is contrarary and different from the mainstream French?
Same goes with the Malays.
Yes, we always say that this land is shared by other races too.
But there are limits.
Malaccan, you own a house.
And two people came and stay with you.
They contribute to the house as well.
But historically,the house is yours.
How would you feel if they throw a party without your knowledge which caused destruction to your house?

How do you define the word "contribute". If that two person are your tenants then of course you can chase them out since you build the house.

But the reality here, if, you insisting on saying that the house is same as our country, is that EVERYONE BUILD THIS COUNTRY. So if the 3 of us build this house, of course everyone can throw a party because we all share a part of the house. Get it, Tengkuaff?

And IMHO, comparing a nation with a house is quite a narrow perspective. Remember that without other races'[ support, UMNO cannot make our country independent. You cannot just defy the contributions that other races have done in their part.

We might be demanding, because our basic rights has been taken away in some prospects. See how the Malays are doing in Singapore? They can't even speak Malay well because they never fight for their rights like we Chinese do in Malaysia. Of course we Chinese have to fight for our own rights to learn our mother tongue.

How would you feel if you score all As and you were not entitled to be in local university? (not UM, but UTM or UUM...) This sounds impossible on Malays, but always happenned on Chinese and Indians, thus causing a lot of them to go to overseas to pursue studies and service other nations, while being blamed by the local politicians for being "ungrateful".

How can you expect these people to work for our country while do you do not give them a chance? Who is the biggest benefactor of this twisted policy? SINGAPORE. Not because of the government is ruled by Chinese, but because of their fairness in policies.

If you are Chinese, you will know how we feel. If you ask those Chinese or Indians to "balik Tong Shan" or "balik benua Keling" well I suppose you guys can "balik Indonesia" too. (Parameswara's from Palambang isn't he?) yes or no?

How can we ask somebody to accept ourselves when we can't even accept our own culture? If I'm Arab, I'll be proud of my blood and I won't let go of my culture no matter how others oppress us. I'll try to make Arabian PART of French culture. Just like the black people in United States making their Jazz, rap, hip-hop as a part of American culture.

Remember, we have the right to fight for our own rights too, Tengkuaff. Please open up your mind and remember that you are not only a Malay, but also a Malaysian.

So for me in the end of the day, I'm a Malaysian nationalist. I really love everyone and hope for the best for every single Malaysia no matter whether they are Malay, Chinese, Indian, Eurasian, Kadazan, Iban.... you name it. If a malaysian is in trouble I'll help them no matter who there are. Because we are all born in Malaysia.

I understand your analogy Afif, totally. But the way I see it, while the land belongs to the Malay, the house is built by all Malaysians, who all would have equal say. If something is wrong with the house which needs repairs, funds come out from all its inhabitants. While other inhabitants parents or beyond might come from distant lands, now our common house is the only house that they know.

I'll give it to you, Iron Malayan and Nusantara etc for standing up for Malaysia whenever we're bashed. I don't do it cos in my experience on AF, most people who do that in the first place are just too filled with prejudice, bigotry and hate already and would be unwilling to listen to our POV. There are good people in all countries, just like there are idiots. On the international stage in real-life, Malaysia is nowhere near as weak as some would like us to be, we all know that. Let's strive hard to make ourselves even better.

So what if Parameswara was from Sumatra ? Can you prove that all Malays are from Sumatra ?

I have read many such allegations but not a single one managed to furnish solid evidence. All excellent non-bumi students are still given university places. Its the not so excellent ones who are left out. I think its a good non-violent way to rectify the economic imbalances resulting from many decades of British favouritism

and besides, our education system need to produce high quality innovative workers; not ppl who are only good at studying. Thats why the more innovative Malays should be given preference.

Maybe coz we don't want them to work here.

Whether they are really fair or not, your precious Singapore is still nothing much.

In order to make Malaysia strong, malays have to change their mind set and not depending on the government too much. I think it's time for you to "berdikari" and try to earn things you ahve got, not being feed by government.

Maybe Singapore's nothing, Iron Malayan. But then how do you exactly explain that a small island that was ejected by Malaysia, no resources, they got nothing... not even they have enough water, but yet their currency's higher than us? Can somebody tell me why?

Maybe it's because Israel helped them? maybe it's the Americans? But IMHO it's because of their fairness and transparency, not to mention a highly efficient government. This is something that we can't deny. Malaysians HAVE to learn their mistakes and try to correct their "tidak apa" or "government help us" mind set.

If you can't even achieve total prosperity after 50 years of tongkat given by the government, then do not be jealous or even envious of other races' achievements. Think about it.

Of course we will give priority to our people first.
If your people lead this country (nauzubillah) ,I am sure your people will give priority to your people too (Like,Singapore).
Common sense.

It is not that people here don't want to stand up for his or her people... It is not about discouraging those who do.. It is not about anti-Malay.. It is not about which race is the best.. It is not about which race need to 'berdiri diatas kaki sendiri'... it is not about 'get out from my country' or ' go back to your home land'.. It is about Malaysia...

Honestly.. I'm a Malay nationalist.. Maybe not from others view.. but it is enough if it cames from my own view... In order to make Malay becomes more competitive, we need to cooperate with other races.. exchange views and opinion.. Malays in Malaysia is a small comunity actually if we compared with chineses and indians from the whole world..

The Q is, which one come first - your race or your country..?

For a Malay... Are you sure you are a pure Malay? Can you track back your ancestors blood for the past 500years?

The kind of help given by the govt to Bumis is nothing compared to the crutches given by the British to chinese and indians.
Its much easier to develop a 100% urban population which was already prosperous before independence

especially when they let highly qualified foreigners to take the best jobs away from original chinese and other singaporeans.
Malaysia on the other hand will become 1st world without marginalising the original citizens.

I don't envy singaporeans. I laugh at those pathetic wimps.

Why cant you type proper English words in this international forum. Non-Malaysians may think "tongkat" is something chinese ppl used to deform their daughter's feet.

Here's a voice of support for isaax. His people are also my people, we're Malaysians.
There is more to standing up for our country than looking down at others.
Singapore thrives on our ineffeciencies. People of all races from Johor and Malacca understands Singapore in a way that people from other states don't.

I think it is obvious which nationalist I am. But I am interested in my Chinese culture as well.

I know you are good and all,malaccan.
But just imagine what would happen to the Malays if this land has fallen to the hands of the Chinese.
Employment,the use of language,education etc.
At that time, it's already too late. And,at that time the Malays couldn't do anything.
The problem with the Malays is that they are being too kind. Way too kind.
Look at those advanced people. They have the history of discriminating other races. Eventhough it is clear that they have done the wrong things, still they won't admit nor apologize. What about us? We despise our own people.Any effort to preserve/enhance the Malay interests are deemed racist.
When in Rome,do as the Romans do.
And, what else do they want? Haven't they got enough?

People of all races from Johor and Malacca understands Singapore in a way that people from other states don't.

-You might want to share it with us,perhaps?

This is my point of view afif.

My family, we are Chinese. We do not want any land from the Malays. What we really want is just an acknowledgement that we are part of Malaysia. That we are part of the development, a part of the growth, a part of the success and a part of the culture in M'sia. There may be Chinese who do not feel the same but I can ensure that most of my friends would agree with me.

The way you put it is as if we Chinese are waiting to chase you all out of M'sia.

The white policy which preserve and enhance the White's interests are deemed racist as well. So why not the Malay interest?

Malay do not need to follow the mistakes what Indons did, Look at what happened in Indons during Soeharto regime everything belong to Soeharto and his chinese cronies.

Being too kind and accomodating later on they were being spat by chinese in their face. Indons just became like guest in their own country everything belong to Soeharto and his chinese cronies.
Only after May riot in 1998 now some Indons do realize their mistake but still not many of few of them unfortunately.

If you look early topics at this forum in Malaysian and Indonesian chat you will know their true color how chinese who live parasitely in Indonesia and Malaysia praising the fallen of Indons and Malay.
Your enemy might looking the ways until you are weak and distract.

Look Indonesia! look how Indons have to work as cheap labour and maids in Malaysia because everything already taken by chinese and they run away and live abroad from their corrupt money got by collaboration with new order regime.

caramel,please don't get me wrong,ok?

First of all, what do you mean by what we really want is just an acknowledgement that we are part of Malaysia. That we are part of the development, a part of the growth, a part of the success and a part of the culture in M'sia. ?
You want to speak Chinese,go ahead and speak it.
You want to watch Chinese TV,go ahead and watch it.
You want to celebrate CNY, go ahead and celebrate.
You want to preserve the Chinese culture,go ahead and preserve it.
You want to use Chinese names,go ahead and use it.
You want to speak Chinese,go ahead and speak it.
You want Chinese schools,go ahead and study there.
You want Chinese radio,go ahead and listen it.
You want to use Chinese script,go ahead and use it.
You want to have Chinese political parties,go ahead and form one.

What else do you want?
Sometimes it is sad that the Chinese do not know how to be grateful.
Why wouldn't you want to assimilate in our society?
If other Overseas Chinese can do so, why can't Malaysian Chinese?
Please be grateful on what you have. It's better have something than nothing.

Doesn't that actually point to the politician's fault? So happen his cronies are Chinese.

nationalism can be dangerous.

My idea, we are Malaysian.. As a Malay, i think that the 'Ketuanan Melayu' must be maintain.. but, don't know for how long... The Malays should learn from the other races that success in Malaysia.. It is not about 'i'm a native here and you are not, so you have to listen to me'..

I believe that in order for the Malays to be more succesful is by cooperate with the other races.. I'm a Malay as well (I'm considered myself as one).. but, my view is a bit different than Malay ultralist..

We never wanted your land, we own this land together. What's yours is ours and vice versa. Really, we just wanted to let you guys know that Malays will be eventually be eaten up by NEP if we do not abolish it. (ISA is about the security affairs, so I won't mention it here)

But then, come to think of it, maybe it's the only way that you Malays can survive in this cruel world using the help of governement, so are you really hoping that the government of Malaysia can support you guys forever?

Eventually, you will still have to fight for your own, maybe not in Malaysia, but with other races in this world. The competition is getting higher and higher and employers, buyers and investors are getting smarter and smarter since they have bigger, better choices. The protection policy of Government towards Bumiputera-owned companies/organizations won't be lasted that long (at least not more than 20 years) and what will happen after that?

If I were to be a leader, I'll imply this policy, "first come first serve". It's just that simple. That's what Singapore government does and now their foreign currency reserve is n times higher than us and their military power ranks one of the top ten in the world.

Laugh at them or not, we have to learn from them. We really got to throw away our pride and learn our mistakes. If not, our country's still gonna suffer in the end.

"You want to speak Chinese,go ahead and speak it."

What's the use when our Mandarin proficiency is falling while being blocked by so many Chinese dialects because there's still not an efficient, fair education policy?

"You want to watch Chinese TV,go ahead and watch it."
So? everybody finds TV1 boring what!

You want to celebrate CNY, go ahead and celebrate.
You can celebrate too, of course, but we have far more restrictions than you guys have.

You want to preserve the Chinese culture,go ahead and preserve it.
We have far tougher times of building a new chinese school and chinese temple than you guys building a sekolah kebangsaan and a mosque. We raise our own funds. You guys do not have to.

You want to use Chinese names,go ahead and use it.
Of course, this is our basic rights.


You want to speak Chinese,go ahead and speak it.
Redundancy.

You want Chinese schools,go ahead and study there.
but Our government do not acknowledge our certificate of Chinese high school year end exam. Singapore acknowledge it, so that's why a lot of Chinese elites went to Singapore and Taiwan and China but not Malaysia.... you understand or not?

You want Chinese radio,go ahead and listen it.
Recently this Wah!fm was been banned.... why?

You want to use Chinese script,go ahead and use it.
Again, you can't stop us.

You want to have Chinese political parties,go ahead and form one.
here's the problem, what the use of the political party, when they can't send our thoughts to the BN? They managed to build Rahman University, but that's the best they can do. Our own problems and unfairness in policy... they can't negotiate it with the BN at all.

You can't run this country alone. You are not the only one that's doing sacrifices. Everyone here does, so stop getting yourself a bigger slice of the cake, while trying to take aways ours, when your cake's being given by the government but we earn it with our own blood and sweat.

Nusantara, I felt pity for your mindset, it seems that you are another victim of Suharto's terror policies.

Suharto implemented anti-Chinese policies because of China as a communist country at that time. Also, thanks to the Dutch, the Chinese and local people bear grudges and that buries the seed of tragedy that leads to the 1998 riots.

Under Suharto's policies, the only thing that Chinese can do is to do business, thanks to him, the whole nation thought that the Chinese are selfish where they were forced to do cheap labour BECAUSE of his policies of making Chinese richer and richer.

And YOU were influenced that Chinese were demons that sucked Indonesian dry isn't it? Well let me tell you, wise guy. It's Suharto himself is the demon that sucked this nation dry, it's his doing so that he can still reap the rewards even after he let go of his post. Habibie and Wahid were his puppet.

The fact is that the Chinese earned income and feed you local Indon bastards strong and earned no gratefulness.

What do you mean that what will happen to malay if malaysia fallen into Chinese's hands? Did Singapore ever kill Malays? Did they forbid them to take their mother tongue? It's just that the Malays have to fight for their own and they eventually did fought their way out and earned their slice of the economy cake, without significant help to the government of Singapore. They still earn similar income to other races.

And Malaysian Malays still fall behind us Chinese even with the help of the government. Why? Please do not blame us for nothing.

YO Issax! Singapore is not top ten in the world but we are no 1 in ASEAN. Now that matters!

^ it doesn't matter at all... seriously

And that's how you just lost some goodwill and support, my Malaysian friend. Let's emulate the good things from Singapore, not it's kiasuism; criticise when need be, but don't look down on Indonesia please.

yeah... malaccan is right.. you dont have to look down to Indonesia.. If your mentality is like this, you worse than the poor Indonesians... Maybe some of them are poor, but they rich in budi bahasa...

Malaysian and singaporean chinese are a bit primitive compared to ethnic Malays. We are already the most technologically advanced race in Malaysia and SE Asia. Now we are working on our economics and theres nothing anyobody can do to stop us.



No.1 or No.100,
singaporean military will always be at the mercy of Malaysia.

Stop dreaming laaar...

Just tell us why Indonesian aborigines love to beat up chinese like gypsy rats.

Ego is going to bring us all down.

Why can't all M'sians just work alongside and not look down on the other race. Why not Malaysians are the most technologically advanced and not ethnic Malays or ethnic Chinese or ethnic Indians.

Didn't you chinese transfer the money which you got from Indonesia Central Bank loan through your patron Soeharto abroad when you find out your patron soon will get down?
While many Indonesian did the Rupiah campaign at that time you bastard stabbing Indonesian by transferring dollar abroad which not even yours but you got it illegally through your previllage relation with Soeharto.

No wonder Indos got mad and did riot to you which burnt you and SERVE YOU RIGHT.



Chinese wealthyness was based on connection and privilege given by Indonesian ruling family during new orde regime.Under Soeharto's rule Chinese such as Liem Sioe Liong, Mochtar Riady,Eka Tjipta Widjaja, Eddy Tan and many other built their fortunes through corrupt regime Soeharto.
Look at Indonesia now among the highest growth of economic among ASEAN countries after most those chinese left Indonesia after the riot.


Singapore did discriminate against Malays for job application on military and police officer, under british rule initially most Singaporean police and military officer were Malay. But now chinese majority singaporean reduce the number of Malay who applied for police officer position.


Malays do not fall behind chinese, It need you 1.5 billions population but you are still treated like rats everywhere. It just need less than 1/100 of your population (~13 million) Malays left you behind.

Somehow, I agreed with nusantara..

*Duhh until now i donno how 2 do e quotin tingy*
Anyway,about e job application on military n police officer[e 1 wit higher rank lyk SAF combat, who play an important role in protectin e county,e others den i dont tink der will b any problm] e malays who want 2 apply 4 tat muz go thru sum test[certain test] if im nt wrong , coz e government dont want e malays 2 b in e spot coz 4 dem[tats wat e government tink lar if im nt wrong] e malays will tend 2 support malaysia lets say if ders a war on tis malaysia vs singapore,as most of us[especially e malays] here gt relatives in malaysia ..n so dey tink tat 4 malays, e race n religion will always cum 1st[or sumtin lyk tat] so e malays will tend 2 help countries lyk malaysia instead of their own country which in tis case is spore.
Duhh donno lar how 2 explain,but if im nt wrong, tats wat e governmnt tink lar, tat if ders a war wit e neighbourin countries lyk malaysia,indonesia n so on[e 1 wit more malays] den e malays here will support dem n tings will go harewire,so 2 avoid tings all,tats y 4 malays who 1 2 apply 4 tat job,dey muz go thru certain test coz dey dont want e malays 2 b in e spot,lyk 2 choose who 2 support[country or blabla] n tings lyk tat..
If im nt wrong, tats e case lar..myb its e wrong info after all, but tats frm wat i kno, it may be wrong of coz..but mostly tats wat sum of e ppl tl me too..

*Duhhh...e government z juz takin precaution..i dont mind as long as it benefits 4 all of us & i kno tat e others[referin 2 e malays especially] dont mind 2*---[It's nt a bad ting after all..]

^ so many lar..

^
It is ok lar
oops I am in the wrong thread ,I think I am in "lah thread"

Ahakz..u prefer when i type more lar or more seh?
Ahakz, chill ar bro

I don't think there's a need to bring out such a sensitive topic. Look at all the flamings by some childish forumers with a narrow mindset. I pity them for having such a mindset. Why can't we speak like a Malaysian instead of being selfish and only speak for the sake of our own race.

[quote=Iron Malayan,Dec 30 2005, 06:38 AM]
Malaysian and singaporean chinese are a bit primitive compared to ethnic Malays. We are already the most technologically advanced race in Malaysia and SE Asia. Now we are working on our economics and theres nothing anyobody can do to stop us.
YO Issax! Singapore is not top ten in the world but we are no 1 in ASEAN. Now that matters!

[/quote]No.1 or No.100,
singaporean military will always be at the mercy of Malaysia.

Stop dreaming laaar...

Just tell us why Indonesian aborigines love to beat up chinese like gypsy rats.

[/quote]

If all Malay come with The attitude that their race is d best like this, u guys will not improve any more. Chinese been colonise cuz they ignored the other race and not learn how advance of their European enemy.

I think d word "We" that u use is mean only Malay ,where as Chinese contribute so much to Malay economic.

Collaborative work is very important dude ,the relationship between Malaysia and other SEA countries would be better if Malay can think every one are equal.

the last dynasty in china was a foreign one. it was the manchus, not chinese, who were closing the doors to the outside world.

many people espically foreigners thought the pigtail and the 'qi pao' were traditional chinese dresses.

What a breath of fresh air...

Not a race nationalist, but will put my race belief when 'Ketuanan Melayu' is threatened.

Call me a 'Malay-realist' instead ...

I believe that in order for the Malays to be more succesful is by cooperate with the other races.. I'm a Malay as well (I'm considered myself as one).. but, my view is a bit different than Malay ultralist..

[/quote]

agree with this. work together