I think since they invented and contribute the most to all of Asia & the World they can claim this title..

I don't know about the world but maybe Asia. I think Europe and America might have them beat with the world. Although I guess it's an arguable topic.

America and Europe have formed a very sucessful government. America burrowed so much of everybody else's culture to form their own. But that's okay if people dont know..

The significance of India and China to Asia is what ancient Greece and Rome is to Europe.

Germanic and Muslim invaders pretty much destroyed Roman and Greek culture.

Possibly but look how much America was able to contribute to the world in a 200 year time span. And America didn't borrow cultures, it was simply made up of many others. Now the Greeks borrowed alot of their culture, philosophy, and ideals from mainly Rome, and places in Asia and Africa.

err, i dont think thats quite right. the romans borrowed from greek culture. greek civilization came first.

sry im still a bit hungover from last night ...greeks still borrowed alot of their philosophy and ideals however.

Might? They did (beyond reasonable doubt, one can say).

much of America;s innovations came from 1st or 2nd generation foriegn nationals like Albert Einstein, Darwin.. the german scientists who developed America's rocket industry,, nuclear developement.. etc..

Europe developed alot of their technological advancements from Eastern inventions. i dont think anyone can claim true technological dominance in terms of world contributions. America is leading in "modern times" but at the time the Greeks, Arabs, Indians.. Chinese etc.. developed their advancements, it was the modern times of the day. America's lead in the modern times has more to do with relative economic stability then anything, economic stability lead to innovations.. at least in the modern sense. Develping the best computer or military advancements these days requires cold hard cash which the US and Europe have.

really? is that why the word democracy, senate, romance language, western philosophy, western society, religion is the subject of marketing as called globalisation?

you mean their physical existence (not even that cuz the architecture roads etc is still there)

I know what China contributed but India, apart from religion, i am not so keen on what they contributed.

cash? No I believe it takes a lot of innovative minds. you have that and they can built their own futures and powers. And stable governance, for with chaos nothing can be acheived.

almost the whole of seasia is hindu influenced, from religion, phonetics, language, philosophy, dress etc. the numeral system that we use is indian in origin. (123456789) that's why its called hindu arabic. in fact the hindu valley civ. predates all civilization (except chinese, but then alot of people don't consider those as civ. because they lack metal and written language). algebra, astronomy etc.

India & China has had metal use and written language for quite sometime.

no i'm not talking about post history chinese, i'm talking about chinese cultures existing contemporary of the indus valley.

Innovative minds come from a true middle class(at least in modern times with the tech industry) that can afford the luxuries to be innovative in the first place. Innovative minds dont come out of thin air, most of it is economics. A "middle class" in India is less likely to give you the next great technological innovator then say the United States. India however is getting there as their tech industry is probably the fastest growing in the world.

So if anything we must give the US credit in terms of capitalistm, and market innovations, which in turn give us the mighty giant that is the American economy.

As a side note, had it not been for German scientists and their contributions to America's Rocket(Space travel as well as the Jet Engine) industry, Russia would have won the Cold War and today we'd be talking of the Great Bear up north that is Russia.

India was more of a spiritual civilization that lacked practicality and application.

lol does anything come with this title? like a trophy? we dont have to give a speech do we?

The state of India didnt even exist until the Brittish came along, it had always been different kingdoms ruling over each other at different points in time i believe. i could be wrong, im not too knowlegable in ancient India

I know for a fact that Vietnam was not influence from the Indians. I believe that region was influenced by the Chinese.

I guess different civilizations were revolutionary at different times, but reflecting back on the contributions that made the world that we live in today, the Europeans and Americans contributed the most. Modern science, the industrial revolution and just about everything modern; revolutionary inventions, theories, concepts...the scientific method and so on, you name it.

Well, aren't the populations of these kingdoms Indians now?

It's very arguable because alot of these things hide vague contributions from elsewhere. You have to remember that alot of things were improved upon and changed. For instance Detroit and most American cars all decided to switch to the method engine design that Honda/Toyota/Nissan engineered. Ford even bought the Mazda Corp. just so they could look at the engine setups and own some rights.
Alot of the technology Europeans came up with are derived elsewhere, Marco Polo carried with him the fundamentals of certain ideas like Binary formulas and medicinal methods he brought from Far East. Even the technologies like Electronics. Sony Flat Screen corner to corner focusing.. that minimalized picture distortion are superior improvements on the round tubes.. The Cannon Cameras and photography designs and applications revolultionized the filmography industry. Even the motorcycles like Honda and their methods of selling something fuel-economic that everybody could use... The Sony Discman, world's first CD player.. So much more..

Hmm it's probably better to understand ancient India as a civilization instead of the modern sense of "country". Under the Mauryans, Guptas, Mughuls, etc most of what you know as India was under one rule. More traditional names for India are Bharat and Aryavarta.

That's not really what I meant. I mean there are whole loads of new revolutionary things that, say, the Europeans discovered or invented. Like, I don't know, electricity, modern chemistry, and totally new fields of mathematics, for example. You know things that are truly revolutionary and make the world what it is today. Electronics rely on these revolutionary discoveries.

By the way, Sony didn't invent the first CD player; it invented the first portable one. I don't know about the Engine one though, but I know Mazda (more than the other two) was very innovative.

I think India co-founded somethings along with China. Like the silk wear.. Indian Architecture is magnificent style and achievement replicated by Mosc of Russia and Judaism.. India also had it's own martial arts and utilized balances of energy to achieve a state of better well-being metamorphically and anamorphically. Yoga etc....

Can u explain the above statment in bold. Do u mean the Indus Valley Civilization or the Vedic Civilization? Cuz the last time I checked, Indus Valley was far far older than Chinese Civilization.

Also Indus Valley civ also has a writing system except it hasn't been deciphered.



That's an ignorant statment and a stereotype. I don't know how much more pratical can u get after inventing the numbering system that we use right now or the invention of zero. Also, Indians peformed complex surgeries including plastic surgeries and there is no way in hell can u say that Indians were more into spiritual and not practicall applicatons. These are some things I can think off my head.



EDIT: It would be better to not consider India as a political state as we think of now. India as one political state existed and was united under Mauryan Empire, The Guptas, and The Mughals before the fall . Also, when Europeans came to India it was a United Nation, but when the central state weakened, INdia broke into a hundred countries becoming an easy prey for european nations.

ancient china (not the han/dynastical "china") and the indus valley civ. were contemporary. however the "chinese" that was contemporary to indus valley or even a little older, there were two recen finds of two "chinese" civ. found within the last twenty years, however because they did not have proof of metallurgy(for building cities and building) and writing (recordkeeping another category to be civilized), historians and experts don't consider them "civlizations".

Well, if they aren't really considered "civilizations" then it doesn't really matter. Cuz then u would have to take into account pre-indus civilization, and other lost civ that was found recently that was "10,000 years old". But it hasn't still been proven yet.

So, until then I will consider chinese to be younger than indus civ but a cotemporary nonetheless.

well the thing with these chinese civ. is their pretty advance. but likewise they don't quiet fit because of the categories of a civlization. however like i said they were pretty amazing "civilization" nonetheless.

second of all, let's not get into the competition. okay india was before nobody is taking that away. sheesh. trust me i know these things i am asian history major.

Lol ok .

Ok, I seem to have entered this one late.

For what it's worth, I beleive that India has yet to step up to the plate. IF and WHEN India keeps growing at 7-8%+ for 10-15 years in a row one can stake the claim of a Pax Indica - Pax Sinica Asian economic and cultural dominance in the world.

Right now the fight is shaping up to be China vs the USA. And i'm not talking militarily. I'm talking influence in the world and 'dominant' power status. Culturally, economically.

The Chinese are 15 years ahead of Indians. India is actually at where China was in 1990-1991 when you look at a whole range of economic indicators.

And before someone flames me, I'm an Indian. Pure, 100% non diluted factory sealed.

India's 'Long March' is just beginning. While China is halfway through at least.

Pax Sinica is looming.

Pax Indica many will have to fight and work hard for.

I'm 22 now. In 2040 i'll be 47. If China and India both make it as the largest and third largest (with the Asian economies together hugely dominating the world economy), i'll be able to die in my old age knowing that i've lived my life in a time of huge historical significance.

The Old Kingdoms of Asia would have returned.

When comparing East to West, one shouldnt simply compare the entire continent of Europe to China. Historically India has been closer to China then to Europe, so when talking of East vs. West, you must include India.

Of course India is older than China in terms of human anthropology. Veddahs are of the oldest races that arrived out of Africa 80 plus thousands of years ago. There's a word that describes people that dont evolve much. Veddahs and other Australoids changed very little phenotypically, but the 1s that did change would evolve into the other races.

juwanFromTaiwan,

no offense and don't take this the wrong way...but you lost it a little there, brother.

#1. India is older than China in terms of human anthropology.

Eh ? Don't beleive it. Anyways, the Chinese built the Great Wall to protect their civilization while we Indians killed each other and let outsiders romp all over us in ancient times.

#2. Veddahs are of the oldest races that arrived out of Africa 80 plus thousands of years ago.

There is a race called 'Veddahs' ? Nope, my man. What you mean is 'Vedas', and they are ancient TEXTS written from 1000 BC till around 500 BC. Give or take a few centuries.

And what's this claptrap about 80 plus thousand years ? And no, no mysterious race of Indians migrated out of Africa to give rise to humanity. Once one race migrated out of Africa: they are Africans. And they are the common ancestors of everyone on earth. White, brown, yellow, red, grey...pink ?

#3. There's a word that describes people that dont evolve much.

Apes ? If you're calling Indians monkeys, bro I can declare i'm gonna boycott every taiwanese restauraunt from Atlanta to New Delhi.

Screw it, I wont be able to resist myself.

Ok, no tips.

My dad can beat up your dad.

*suddenly eyes go glazed as he looks out of the window and in Mr. Burn's voice says:*

"Excellent.'

how racist is that. as far as i know all homo sapiens are homo sapiens, not unless they're different species did they not evolve.

It's been awhile since I last evolved.

It has nothing to do with mental evolution. Veddas are just as psychologically developed as any other Asia/Pacific person. Im just saying that Australoids look the way they do because they havent physically changed much. Any of you guys read unbiased Anthropological Studies? They have a term for this.. Some people on here know that term.. I forgot what it is.. Veddas are the original inhabitants of South Asia and much of South East-Asia... They are related to Melanoids, and Australian Aborigines. And from the pictures Ive seen.. even the Ainu/Jomon of Japan. Indigo you are probably not a Vedda but more Dravidian/Indo-European like most Indians I see. How can you be offended if it does not pertain to you?

These Veddas you are talking about are actually called Wanniyala-Aetto(meaning forest dwellers), they live on Sri Lanka, and are genetically related to Sinhalese ppl. Also they don't look Melenesian( I think you're confusing them with the ppl from the Andaman Islands).

The Veddahs belong to the Australoid race, which also includes the Aborigines, Negritos, Melanesians and Polynesians. Australoids were the first inhabitants of South Asia, South-East Asia, Australia and the Pacific Islands. Currently they are a small minority in Asian countries and Australia. The majority of South Asians are Indo-Aryans and Dravidians, who arrived later and assimilated the aboriginal Australoids. One of these aboriginal Australoid tribes are the Veddahs of Sri Lanka, who have been genetically altered by the Sinhalese. There are also other Australoid tribes, such as the Negritos, Andamanese, Jarawa, Onge and Sentinelese, that are also still present in small parts of South Asia.


No he wasn't referring to the Vedic Sanskrit texts known as the "Vedas", he was referring to the aboriginal Australoid peoples of South Asia, known as the "Veddahs"


A "civilization" is commonly defined by historians as being a "Bronze Age" culture that "built cities" and "developed writing". Under this definition, Chinese civilization didn't begin until 2000 BC when the Xia dynasty began. Prior to that, China was in the neolithic stage of development.

The Indus Valley Civilization was a Bronze Age culture that built complex cities and developed writing around 3500 BC, so under the common definition of civilization, Indian civilization began around 3500 BC, which is 1500 years earlier than Chinese civilization.


I could give a huge list of scientific discoveries and materialistic inventions that India contributed to the world. In mathematics, India introduced the modern numeral system we all use, and first discovered the concepts of zero, infinity, differential calculus, trigonometry, algebra, algorithms, binary numbers, irrational numbers, numerical proofs, square roots, cube roots, transformations, recursions, combinations, permutations, logarithms, quadratic equations, cubic equations, mathematical analysis, Pascal's triangle, Fibonacci numbers, and so on...

India was also the first to perform medical surgery, plastic surgery and dentistry (by 2500 BC), developed the first system of medicine (Ayurveda in 1000 BC), the first system of martial arts (Vajra Mukti in 1000 BC), built the world's first university (Takshashila in 700 BC), etc. The syntax used for programming languages used to write computer software was influenced by Panini's ancient grammar rules for Sanskrit. The binary numbers (and zero) used to invent modern computers was also discovered in ancient India. India developed the first use of urban planning, baths, flush toilets, sewage systems, they invented the earliest steels, including crucible, wootz, Damascus, stainless and rust-resistant steels, and also the first iron rockets. They were also the first to have municipal governments and semi-democratic republics. Of course there were many many more scientific and materialistic Indian contributions to the world but I'll leave it at that for now.


Are you suggesting Europeans & Americans contributed more to the world in the last 400 years than China & India did in the last 4000-5500 years? I really don't see how that's possible. What do you mean by "modern science"? Much of the "modern" scientific discoveries that European renaissance scientists/mathematicians are often given credit for were discovered by Indians, Chinese, Arabs and Persians during the middle ages, and knowledge of these discoveries were later transmitted to Europe. They simply took the concepts developed by other civilizations and refined them further, they didn't actually "invent" most of those "modern" scientific concepts. A few examples would be how the father of modern medicine was Arab, the fathers of modern calculus, trigonometry and mathematical analysis were Indian, the father of modern algebra was Persian, etc.

^^^^ It seems everybody dislikes Australoids.. I know my hair is the way it is because of this component in my DNA.. And Im not at all ashamed of it..

Most of what you mentioned is debatable. Arabs as far as I was taught developed the algebra, numerical system we use and advanced maths.
Nobody probably know who invented what, scientists keep on altering the discoverer. In terms of municipals, sewer systems, concepts of cities, offensive weapons (rocketry) and administration of government, I generally agree that was all India which we all employ to this day.

Zero concept was developed independently by different cultures. The Incas had that concept prior to the Europeans arrival to Peru.



It is fact that Europeans gather their knowledge they claim they invented themselves from the Arabs (such as paper when China went to war with the Arabs around 614 AD and captured paper making experts) who in terms gleamed those knowledge from India and other Asian countries.

You have some indigeneous Australoid (Taiwanese) in you?

indians are dark.
China is the father of Asia!

No connections with Taiwan.. Im of indigenious Tahiti, Euro, and some Chinese.. You have the right Idea though I doubt aborigines of Taiwan had frizzier hair..

Indigeneous Taiwanese do not have frizzy hair. You are correct on your assesment. Neither do the Anu group in Japan.

huh, when did China go to war with arabs? i always thought they were too far apart.