Hey guys,

I have joined in the discussion of the bad priests forum. It bring me to this question that whether God is really exist.

I have a doubt in believing God is existed as what Catholic claimed she to be - all mighty, all knowning, and all kind. So far the sexual abuse by Catholic priests cases around the world is so serious ( more than 10,000 cases so far) and the Vatican keep cover them up. Where is the God, why does she do something to punish those bad priests who do harm to the children and victims?


What about you guys comment? Believe in God or don't ?
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When a crime happens, the church and all the priests cover it up. God, this is Vatican order!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3157555.stm

How many crimes so far committed by the Catholic church priests?!! God, the answers shock you! I heard is up to more than 10,000 not included the silent cases ( majorities)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/16/church.abuse/

What is the feeling of the victimd!! SAd SAD sad!!
http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/

How serious is the crime of the Catholic priests and Vatican cover up? God, serious until the United Nation has to step in.


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Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest


From Richard Owen in Rome

AN ITALIAN judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to prove that Jesus Christ existed.
The case against Father Enrico Righi has been brought in the town of Viterbo, north of Rome, by Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist.
Signor Cascioli, author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning Christ’s historical existence.
Yesterday Gaetano Mautone, a judge in Viterbo, set a preliminary hearing for the end of this month and ordered Father Righi to appear. The judge had earlier refused to take up the case, but was overruled last month by the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Signor Cascioli had a reasonable case for his accusation that Father Righi was “abusing popular credulity”.
Signor Cascioli’s contention — echoed in numerous atheist books and internet sites — is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, which Christians took on faith. There is therefore no basis for Christianity, he claims.
Signor Cascioli’s one-man campaign came to a head at a court hearing last April when he lodged his accusations of “abuse of popular credulity” and “impersonation”, both offences under the Italian penal code. He argued that all claims for the existence of Jesus from sources other than the Bible stem from authors who lived “after the time of the hypothetical Jesus” and were therefore not reliable witnesses.
Signor Cascioli maintains that early Christian writers confused Jesus with John of Gamala, an anti-Roman Jewish insurgent in 1st-century Palestine. Church authorities were therefore guilty of “substitution of persons”.
The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius mention a “Christus” or “Chrestus”, but were writing “well after the life of the purported Jesus” and were relying on hearsay.
Father Righi said there was overwhelming testimony to Christ’s existence in religious and secular texts. Millions had in any case believed in Christ as both man and Son of God for 2,000 years.
“If Cascioli does not see the sun in the sky at midday, he cannot sue me because I see it and he does not,” Father Righi said.

you're going to be VERY popular in the section I'm going to direct your topic too


Have fun

i dont think "He" exists. Humans created god as an excuse for not being able to understand "mysterious" stuff.

That is logical. Human went up to the sky and don't found God! Where is God?

Thanks.

its only a matter of time till those god fanatics come here and whine about "why did stuff x happen, and why this and that"

Catholic God? ---> same as protestant, baptist, and other christians' God....

the existence of God? .... if you have faith then you know what's the answer ^_^
anyways the vatican represents for me like a country's corrupt government XD... like you know politics people has always something hidden udner their sleeves ...
well like no human is perfect.. right? EVERYONE sins... yes even the pope ... and well this is because we always fall under satan's "works"... and also remember that God is forgiving and that he loves you NO MATTER WHAT... so God punishing those bad priests? punishing us all sinners? heck no :P but it doesnt mean that its ok we can sin since God is forgiving.... lolz doesnt work that way..

anyways why would my faith diminish just because these people (the priests) that r supposed to be a role model to us sin? ...

I don't understand.

Are you questioning the existence of God based upon the actions of a sect of believers in this God?

If so, you've got one massive non sequitur cooking, sweetheart!

Faith or Blind Faith ?

Blind faith is deadly. Like those victims abused by the bad priests. I believe only one reason - Blind faith.

Some how we have to question. Why?
1. As our knowledge grow, we found something the church tell us for thousand years seems so doubtful.
2. We also found that the church leaders don't behave the way they talk to us.
They talk one way and behave the other way. Should we continuous to believe and to donate our money to support them? Remember, all the church money come from people donations. In the other word, we use our money to feed them.
3. If we don't doubt and question, then the bad priests population will definitely continuous to grow. As a result who will be the victim - Us and our children?

Can we learn without questioning? The answer is no!!
the same goes to
Can we have faith without questioning? The answer is NO No No!!!

Im glad I don't go to a white church.

If God creates the universe , then who creates God?

Um...

Science has already proven that things existing due to Evolution!!!

You are misreading me (as I may be misreading you).

I'm not asserting that there is a god. I'm merely trying to find out if one of the reasons you don't believe in a god (particularly the "Catholic God") is because of the actions of this deity's believers.

It seems to me that you are complaining (rightly so) about the actions of some of the Church's priests. Furthermore, you seem to be asserting that because these priests misbehave (and the Church covers it up) that therefore the "Catholic God" does not exist. Is this what you are saying with your opening post?

The action of the huge number of bad priests make me begin to question about the existence of God.

God is all mighty, all knowing and benevolence. If so, how could those evil acts caused by his followers(huge number of followers) exist for such long years ( century, or more we don't know because the church cover them up).
God will stop it or at least lessen it by his mighty power. But the fact is not. Why?

It shouldn't. A deity's existence is not predicated on the actions of its believers. That's simply a fallacy. The deity could exist independent of the actions of its followers.



Because, believers will tell you, "this world" has been handed over to the Prince of Darkness. He has been allowed a certain amount of time to rule the earth. "Soon," they say, God will step in with his divine justice and stop all this evil. But that is God's plan, not ours. We cannot understand his ways.

At least that's what they will tell you.

Sorry....server hiccup. Double post.

A Catholic God exist in every sick peadophile.

Catholic God, Islamic God, Jewish God.

"Which ghost is more imaginary"?

Those Catholic priests in THE NAME OF GOD fool us for too long.
They go everywhere ( almost every country) fool people to donate the money and land to them. We donate the money for the poor, but go into their(Vatican and church) pocket. In return, vatican and the priests sexual abuse OUR Children.

Maybe there is a God, but just this God isn't as powerful and kind as what they claimed!!!

I agree with you that IT IS THE TIME TO REBEL after knowning what all they Catholic priests have done to harm Children around the world.

Blind faith isn't good enough. If we still go on without questioning, one day Vatican will rule the world. 2

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So how did those priests and church tell about this???

CBS NEWS

40 year Old Secret Document? Sex Crimes Cover-Up By Vatican?



For decades, priests in this country abused children in parish after parish while their superiors covered it all up. Now it turns out the orders for this cover up were written in Rome at the highest levels of the Vatican.

CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales has uncovered a church document kept secret for 40 years.

The confidential Vatican document, obtained by CBS News, lays out a church policy that calls for absolute secrecy when it comes to sexual abuse by priests - anyone who speaks out could be thrown out of the church.

The policy was written in 1962 by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani.

The document, once "stored in the secret archives" of the Vatican, focuses on crimes initiated as part of the confessional relationship and what it calls the "worst crime": sexual assault committed by a priest" or "attempted by him with youths of either sex or with brute animals."

Bishops are instructed to pursue these cases "in the most secretive way...restrained by a perpetual silence...and everyone {including the alleged victim) ...is to observe the strictest secret, which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office...under the penalty of excommunication."

Look at this case of a white married pastor raping a Thai woman.

He told her that he would have her deported if she ever told anyone, and that no one would believe her if she complained cus he is a priest.

Asiaphilia seriously SUCKS. If you are Christian, please choose your church carefully and try to go to one tailored for your ethnic community.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/5518928/detail.html

Old news but yea religious pervs suck!!!!!!



Better yet, dont go to church at all!!!!!

In the name of God again!
Those church members are just so mighty.
How many innocent victims are there so far???

Well I'm glad you also see the problem.

We'll be looking at a theocracy in US in no time unless the progressive forces in US stop sitting on their yankee asses and do SOMETHING.

Who'd have thought, that 400 years after Galileo, 200 years after Marx, we still have to deal with this kind of bull$hit??

2 It is difficult to stop people going to church. Those priests and church leaders espcially Vatican know well.

Human technically divided into two part - body and soul.
If we get hurt physically, we need DOCTORS!
If we get hurt mentally, we need soul Doctors ( psychologist, priests ). And until now, the later still dominant in the society because it is free to see a priest - 2
But, people just don't know the church way - give you a little benefits( free priests listen to your confession), then get plentiful from you (peoples' donation). Vatican knows. That is why Vatican is so rich!

^ I know it's a social thing... people go to church for their problems and to see their friends...
they would feel so naked without "god"


It's time to burn some churches
(jk)

Yeap! It is time to burn some bad churches.

And it is time to question....

We did not question and believe ( blind faith ) for too long. That is why Vatican become so mighty - cover up and shift the criminal priests around the churches of different countries. So the same priests can abuse children in different location and country again and again without punishment.

2 I was wondering where is God when the below news happened?

Answer no. A) On holiday.
B) the devil temporary take place

What is your pick?

P.S. I can't give you other choice because the church taught us that God is mighty, God is benevolent, God is knows everything existing in the world.

Priest, Nun Convicted After 'Sex Act' in Car

BLANTYRE, Malawi (Reuters) - A Malawian court convicted a Catholic priest and a nun of disorderly conduct Thursday after they were caught engaged in a sexual act in a parked car with tinted windows.

The Malawian priest, 43, and the 26-year-old nun from neighboring Zambia spent the night in police cells after being caught in the act Wednesday, police said.

A court in the capital Lilongwe handed down suspended jail sentences of six months with hard labor after the pair pleaded guilty to charges of idleness and disorderly conduct.

"These people were caught in a sex act," Assistant Superintendent Kelvin Maigwa told Reuters.

Officials in the Roman Catholic Church, whose priests are barred from sex or marriage, declined to comment.
Passers by alerted police at Lilongwe International Airport after the parked Toyota Corolla, which had tinted windows, began shaking in what police described as "a funny manner."

Catholic God?

All Abrahamic religions believe in the same God... Judaism, Christianity (all forms) and Muslim (all forms).

From Abrahamic religions, God is the creator of everything... You can probably make a conclusion, that all religions believe in the same God... Ppl around the world just named or imagined God differently.

The religious institutions are the one that make distinction about God.

@susan12 If you deeply study our universe, you'll see that every thing culminates in a Creator. He is the ultimate and every thing is working under his guidance. If you look at different stages of human birth and growth, you see that as we go backward, we find we are moving towards weaker and weaker stage. Eventually we shall find that the growth starts from a clot of clinging substance. So human beings who themselves start from such a weak stage, how can they be their own creator. So it proves without any doubt that human beings are not their own creator. You see that if you start studying the birth process minutely, ultimately you'll find yourselve at the limit of your knowledge. At that stage, all the worldly knowledges will reach their limit and will be totally exhausted about what had actually happened ? So that is a stage where divine hand is working. Every scientist have to believe that all the processes of our universe ultimately reaches a point where their knowledge becomes inadequate to describe them.Some of the ppl believe that this universe was created just by chance and they also try to prove it through science. But God says that all those things that happens just by chance, they don't have such an order in them. Different colors are used together to make a picture. If you just throw the paints on a paper, will they ever make a picture ? It is true that sometimes some of the things are made by chance, but a close analysis of the universe clearly refutes the by chance theory. All right, for a moment, if we believe that matter was created by chance, and this world also came into being by chance, I will ask you susan to study deeply the creation of human beings, Is it possible that such a perfect being was created by chance ? See the stars, the planets, sun and then the creation of day and night. Every thing just fits, doesn't that orderliness speaks of a powerful creator ?

^
||

Can you summed up all that... with this?

"Don't constrain God's omnipoten with the size of your purty little head"

The existence of any sort of creator is highly dubious.
The existence of the God of Judeo-Christianity is outright impossible.

===================================================
So what do you think about the Catholic religion? Myself was a Catholic. I did believe it a lot and trust every word of the priests and the sisters teaching. But as age and knowledge grow, I saw their teaching in different way. I don't see them, most of them, teach and behavior the same way. Most of their teaching is not logical.

Let me recall my childhood experience. I was study in a Catholic school. I knew that the teacher ( the stupid priest) was the person who stole the money from the kids because one time I accidently saw him steal. As a child , I stupidly told him I saw him steal. Later, this sick priest called me up in front of all the class and taught me a lesson right in front of my classmates about stealing is bad. He twisted the story around and put me as a theft instead of him and punished me right in front of the everyone.

Back to the issue of the huge figure of the child abuse and crimes caused by the priests and the cover up. I must to make the following questions:

1. The existence of God
2. God is a tool of the priests and Vatican use to take advange from general public

Every priest teach us God is OMNIPOTENCE, BENEVOLENCE, AND ALL KNOWNING( knowing everything in the universe).

I know. But what does this have to do with the existence of a god?

I'll tell you.

Nothing.

According to who?
Break the circle.

what does this mean exactly??

Didn't you get the memo?

Some folks want to turn back the clock, ATL. You know: "Separate but equal"?

oh this should be interesting.
why do you say it is outright impossible???

^ Omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, and omnibenevolence.

I am a Catholic and yes I believe in God, mainly because of the story of Jesus Christ, easily the greatest tale ever told. Has anybody else noticed that most of the novels and films made these days involve some sort of sacrifice - its based on Jesus's example.

Its not as if I am overly religious - and to be honest, going to Church does not make me enthusiastic about God - if anything, it was just a boring visit to go to when I was young. Also, I dont believe that going to the catholic church makes you a better person or brings you closer to God, everybody must do that in their own way. But I really do believe that God touches everyone at different times. Athiests get on my nerves - how can there be no greater being? And all these people who complain about why God doesnt punish those who do wrong, are they forgetting Gods enemy who also has a say in what goes on in this world?

Even if there is no God, the faith he inspires help a great deal of people - believing in him can only give you hope, and help your life during dark hours.

If that's you in your avatar, all I can say is "what a waste".



Then you need to rent "Lord of the Rings". That's easily the greatest tale ever told! Oh man!



Have you ever read Joseph Campbell?



Your posts say otherwise.



You really are Catholic, aren't you? 2 (Don't hate me, shiro, but I just couldn't resist!)



Hmmm... that's how I feel about pompus, holier-than-thou Catholics! Look! We have something in common!!



Hmmm..and I'm wondering, how could there be?



See? What did I tell you! Someone would come along and absolve God of all responsibilty. The Prince of this World has been given (temporary) control!!



Or, it can warp you into a fanatic.

It's funny, because it's true.

OK, don't misunderstand me. Contrary to your belief that I'm some God-worshipping fanatic, it isnt true - not at all! I'm no angel. But it's called CHRISTMAS for very good reason, hence the word CHRIST. I dont study page by page of the bible and (surprisingly to you, no doubt) I dont preach the word of God around like a maniac. But I do think its very wrong and insulting to celebrate Christmas if youre not prepared to believe in God. You have to give back if you want to take, and this applies to giving Christianity your love if you want the enjoymants of Christmas!

Oh yeah - yes thats me in the pic - I got up to Chapter 3 of Lord of the Rings and found it too boring to finish, no offence. And no, i havent heard of Joseph Campbell.

But Christians ripped off non-Christian traditions and encorporated them into the Church's worship. Why was it ok for Christians to steal but not non-Christians?



1. Hubba hubba
2. Try the movies. The Special FX are great
3. You should read him sometime. Might explain a few things.

Thats a sly move but it doesnt exempt you from realizing the one fact and basic point that, however the traditions are done, to celebrate a holiday such as Christmas, with such a powerful meaning and story behind it is plain WRONG if you dont believe in it.

Ive never even heard of Joseph Campbell.

So it's ok for Christians to usurp pagan traditions but not the other way around?



Here's a crash course, explaining why so many movies today seem to be following a very familiar and popular forumula: A Practical Guide to The Hero With a Thousand Faces

That link you posted said itself that Christ - among others - recognized this and acted as one himself! Well - thats what I said earlier! That they are based on Christ.

Pagan? I dont know about this. But I do know that what you would see as stealing -tradition actions etc - and what I see as stealing - or cheating to put it more accurately, taking but not giving - are different things.

now see that's just a low blow.....i mean scoring below the belt......i mean.................$HIT!!!!!!!

YEA YEA YEA.....your catholic...skeptic's atheist let's just get down to the real reason we're in this topic


WHAT'S YOUR PHONE NUMBER