Hey guys can you share your mind about Mongol Empire,firstly about what have they done negative and positive truly.
It,s better to say the truth before u call them as a barbarian,dont be too polarized

Ok let,s begin from China
What If Mongols didnt invade China in 13 century,China wouldnt be united big country as today!!!!!Before that China was separated into three independent country !!!!

I think right now there will be no such a today,s china!It,s the same situation even to Russia !


Macht es Leute weiter !
ok ppl ,continue

If mongols didn't invade. The Manchus would have prob taken over southern song anyways and start the Qing dynasty anyway lol.

The Mongols put Asia on the map, militarily.

^
I concur.

I gotta hand it to the Great Khan clan, their military intelligence & strength were supreme, bar-none. Yet the Mongol Hordes were the least defensively equipped, yet they were able to over come heavy artillery fire & strong as steel armour...

Their will never ever be another military successful empire like the Mongol Hordes.

However many have to realize that they had alot of help, with the nations they conquered, the army or whoever was left standing in the land, lended their services to the Mongol Hordes.

Very successful invasions indeed, especially reaching to the borders of Eastern Europe(Western Imperialist) land at the time.

Mongols kicked the $hit out of the Jurchens and the Manchus kicked the $hit out of the Mongols.

But one thing is for sure Northern China would not have been annhilated.

During the Mongol invasion northern china's population dropped to a minuscule level.
From 46 Million to probrably less then 10 Million(Probrably only 6 million).

People of Jin dynasty dropped like flies, literally in every ten homes nine was empty.

Song Chinese was spared because Kublai's Yuan army did not adopt such genocidal policies.

Not just China suffered.

The Muslim world experienced a lot of genocide during that time. The Afghanistan and Persian still remember this history. They say even cats were killed.

Russia and Ukraine used to be one country before the Mongol conquest. In fact, the old capital of both Russians and Ukrainians was Kiev.

The Mongol rule in China was short lived. But, in Russia it was longer. There were both good and bad sides to this Mongol conquest history.

Anyone could share their mind about some historical facts Mongolians in India
Mogolistan ?

Babur King ?

mgl empire: http://www.olloo.mn/pic/images/0601/image03.jpg


“Нэгэн угсаа гарвалт улсууд” (КюльТегин) Нийгэмлэгээс Монголын Тулгар тєр байгуулагдсаны 800 жилд зориулав
http://www.olloo.mn/modules.php?name=News&...atid=2156\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Manchuria.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mongol_...ter_Genghis.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:ChinaGeography.png


the People’s Republic of China that were not part of the Han Dynasty
http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/06/13/henry...er-is-a-nitwit/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Dynasty

http://www.olloo.mn/pic/images/0601/image02.jpg
http://www.olloo.mn/pic/images/0601/image01.jpg
mgl empire: http://www.olloo.mn/pic/images/0601/image03.jpg

^Why does the map include Vietnam? I thought Mongols couldn't conquer Vietnam, although they tried?

Mongols+Chinese just burned their cities. But could not control them. They just run away and hide in their jungles.

And then kick arse later 2

Mongols couldn't just endure heat
That is why it was hard for them
It also happened same in India

What are some of the cause of the Mongol conquest?

(i know it's off topic but i need to know...)

PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!!!

Sturdy horses, superior tactics of warriors since childhood. Nomads are pratcical and very adaptable to various conditions. Many say this accounted for their capability for outmaneouvering armies. Of course none of them respected kings who had no virtue but that of a parasite, so hatred was a part of the game. That's already good if you're doing a paper.

The Persian chroniclers wrote that the Mongols used technology intensively. Arrows of many kind were developped including those specifically designed for piercing armor, shooting long-range, poisoning, making noise, scaring elephants etc.

I'm not an expert, but here is www.coldsiberia.org

Do you mean Mongols or Mughals? They aren't exactly the same. The Mughals were a Central Asian stock of mixed Turkic-Mongol-Persian descent (like most Central Asians today). Indians used to refer to Central Asians as "Mughals" because it was under Mongol rule at the time. "Mughal" was later used to refer specifically to the Timurid dynasty (descendants of Timur) since Babur, the founder of India's Mughal Empire, was a descendant of Timur through his mother. The Timurid dynasty in India came to be known as the Mughal dynasty.

I don't understand why most maps would show the Mongolian empire comprising of the Kingdom of Dai Co Viet (ancient Vietnam). Vietnam beat the crap out of the invading Mongols on three successive invasions.


That an ignorant person's misconception.

The invading army consisted of mainly ethnic chinese living in southern China, therefore they've been adapted to the "tropical" heat. Additionally, northern Vietnam has a mild weather and not of typical tropical SE Asia you're talking about. It's very similar to the climate of the southern half of China.

The Mongols were defeated in many major battles thanks to the determination, ferocity and martial spirit of the Vietnamese people. Every Vietnamese soldier had his arm tattooed with the phrase "Sat Dat" meaning "Kill the Mongols" and fought to the death to save Vietnam from the brink of destruction. The Mongol armies were beaten in both ambushes and major battles on open plains. The Mongolian fleet was decimated and the Tran dynasty had the policy of killing the enemies rather than capturing prisoners of war, unlike how the Le dynasty founder (Emperor Le Thai To) treated the Ming soldiers, whereby the barbaric defeated invaders were given ships and supplies to sail back to their country (500 large ships and hundreds of tonnes of supplies). The Ming general was so moved that he broke down in tears and remained at Le Thai To's residence speaking and apologizing all night just before boarding the ship bound for China.

Anyway, the general of the second or first invading was captured and executed and the Mongol prince had to flee the country hiding inside a wooden barrel. Such cowardice.

These maps are overly exagerated.
The map of the Hunn khagnate is a joke.


Here is a pre mongol empire map(not entirely accurate but still ok).



After

Damn it. We have the "Historians" here again. Does it matter how big it was?

The point is that it was bigger than anything that existed as well as anything that will exist. And who gives a fu-k about 13th century Vietnam...

And who gives a fu-k about Mongolia with a pathetically tiny population, a paltry economy and politically swayed by both Russia and China?

What else is there to Mongol history besides the Mongol empire in the 13-14th century?

Mongols did its work in World History. No matter what you think about Mongols or Mongolia, you or your children and grand children will learn about Mongols because Mongols have achieved to conquer the most of the World. No country did it before or no country can do that in the future.

Even you don't want to give a $hit about Mongolia, you still will stuck with Mongols who conquered China and Russia.That Mongolia with a pathetically tiny population, a paltry economy managed to win the battle against most advanced and populious countries. Present Mongolia still with a pathetically tiny population, a paltry economy managed to stay INDEPENDANT in between two giants. That is what matters to us.

Ps: And we don't give $hit about what you think of anything at all from now on

good job viets...kicked mongolian ***....

>>The Mongols were defeated in many major battles thanks to the determination, ferocity and martial spirit of the Vietnamese people. Every Vietnamese soldier had his arm tattooed with the phrase "Sat Dat" meaning "Kill the Mongols" and fought to the death to save Vietnam from the brink of destruction. The Mongol armies were beaten in both ambushes and major battles on open plains. The Mongolian fleet was decimated and the Tran dynasty had the policy of killing the enemies rather than capturing prisoners of war, unlike how the Le dynasty founder (Emperor Le Thai To) treated the Ming soldiers, whereby the barbaric defeated invaders were given ships and supplies to sail back to their country (500 large ships and hundreds of tonnes of supplies). The Ming general was so moved that he broke down in tears and remained at Le Thai To's residence speaking and apologizing all night just before boarding the ship bound for China.

Anyway, the general of the second or first invading was captured and executed and the Mongol prince had to flee the country hiding inside a wooden barrel. Such cowardice.
[/quote]

I don't really know about how Mongols fought in SEA in 13-14 century. There are very limited accounts on that. Personaly i read about Khubilai expedtions to SEA from "story of MarkoPolo" which is not really accurate in data and geographical location.
From my point of view Mongols really did not paid much attention to SEA, because Mongols have nothing to do with Viets or Indonesians historically, climate wise. As a conquerer of China, Khubilai might wanted to continue previous Chinese dynasty policy to SEA, this means Mongols acted through existing supply of chinese resources of soldiers and navy boats.
Plus at that time true Mongols stretched their human resouces too much from Manchuria to Europy, from Siberia to South East Asia. Considering that Mongols never exceeded over 1 million at that time, Mongols had serious lack of warriors, so they used conquered countries human resources.
In one account Mongols sent few hundred soldiers followed by few thousand chinese to SEA to demand tributes. So Viets fought with chinese headed by Mongol prince and his followers who inexperienced in humid jungle fighting.

Can you please give me source online or any other reading material on Mongols in SEA?

Jealousy unleashed from its cages, speaking at full breath...

At least, we don't rip our asses off creating sweatshops and brothels to please the men with money. We won't ask whores to care about history either.

You're free to go eat your rice...our interests don't collide.

You know what, that's very ironic because I've just seen a documentary not too long ago about Mongolia where poor and orphaned children would be going down the sewer holes to sleep at night to get away from the freeze of the Mongolian winter.

Sweatshop or not, this is the new Vietnam, baby

We seem to have totally different takes on the world. You're looking for acceptance in the wrong place. As for the pictures, you're way off the course here. It's not the right chat.

As I've said earlier, our interests don't collide, neither do they match. Show some brain or else piss off.

What do you think will be Genghis Khan's opinion of the current state of Mongolia?

^He'd say: "Don't give up your way of life".

Actually, no idea. I'd be happy if someone could get him to speak up.

Our problem is ours, not yours. We will fix those issues. Thx for your concern
nice projests. If new Vietnam is going to be like that. That is wonderful thing to achieve
One day i want to visit Vietnam.



There are lots to say about that IF... Personally i don't look back to history. History is history. About current state of Mongolia, mongolians should seek for better solution by themselves, not asking Chingiss opinion.,
Anyway it was quite OFF TOPIC

Mongols aren't Asian. Look at their language, culture history not East Asian

Mongols aren't Asian h,mmmm what you mean ?

I guess you can't classify a bunch of nomads by a continent. The state of Mongolia is located in Asia, but the people are prolly more "Eurasian".

Yes , that is very ridiculious experience. We looks like Asian, that is why they call other Asians Mongoloid, flat face slant eyes, but our mentality or behaviour habits can not get alone with fellow Asians

Nomad is good term get along

i think "mongol" or "mongolians" are very nice terms for this people.

"nomads"? well, we have asian, sahara, south-african and sea nomads. (spacenomads)

it is not so exsactly..







hhhh..

Do you talk about "mongolian folks" and "mongolian ethnics group"?

or only about modern mongolian ethnic and nationality?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia_%28region%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mongolia

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btw. did anyone know about mongolian architecture, and shool-system?

Fotos?

thx!

do you have a history then a "defeat" of mongols during 13th century? Oh another mention of vietnameze are when they where colonized by the french and the war with usa wich i apreciate it much

dude, dont be rude show respect -earn respect.

i think mongolian empire had bad and good side. (like other states and countries)

bad side: mongolian invasation. burbonic plage (last time of empire)

good side: political, cultural and technolgical exchange in eurasia.

-

You've misunderstood him. "Mongol" is the proud name, it's not for sale, so to speak. But Mongols are nomads is what he meant.



I wrote about the state of Mongolia as it is today, and the people in it. I don't think anyone in the right mind will argue about Mongolia's geographical location.
However, through centuries of interaction with cultural forces on both sides of the Ural-Altaic range, Mongolian culture has absorbed many elements from both Asia and Europe is what I meant.

i agree with like europeans and other asians have get many influecess from mongolian people.

btw. did you know that thing named "passport" was at first developed in mongolian empire.



yup.. i agree they are nomads and semi-nomads.

sorry for misunderstanding!

That's surprising to me. Where did you read that?

archeological report about mongolian empire on silk road (7 years ago.) and later in a national geographic(or was it bbc) documentation.

That passport is GEREGE-

:- Kublai to assist the Polo Brothers on their return trip gave them them a golden tablet (gerege). It was 1 foot long and 3 inches wide. The words "By the strength of the eternal Heaven, holy be the Khan's name. Let him that pays him not reverence be killed" were inscribed on the tablet. It was a kind of VIP passport through the lands conquered by the Mongols.

ooou. Now I get the entire idea. Not surprised for being so slow. It's the hour where men are fast asleep and spirits roam the earth.

that was it!

One good thing about the past Mongol empire was they let Marco Polo come to China and learn noodle making. They later made it to fit their own taste. today I can enjoy both Chinese chow mein and Italian pasta That is all I can think of.

But, seriously what other good things have Mongol and Turks contributed to history. The Turks today still have a long list of grieving nations against them. The history is filled with blood, man...

Seriously the personal attacks against Tien Su Phu wasn't necessary. I thought Mongols had a neutral view towards Vietnamese people? Give credit where it is due. The reason why defeated Ming armies were allowed to go home with free boats, because they did not commit unnecessary atrocities. Civilized Chinese were just battling a similarly civilized Vietnamese back then. Yeah, I agree that the future is important than the past. The past we can only reminesce about, but the future is always moving. We live for the future!

Oh, it's just that you didn't read the whole sequence. Away from here, he's prolly enjoying his rice. You'll also be welcome to join him, if that may be your wish...

You guys need to learn some etiquette if you know what that means.

The man was just stating his facts and opinions and I see the insults flying everywhere.

I don't know how you came about to know so much about etiquette, given your inability to make out a plain provocation from an objective opinion. It's either your sense of justice that is quite retarded, or you're just pulling my legs here. Be sure to make it clear next time, as it appears childishly insecure otherwise.

It's ironic that Mongolia, a nation that conquered both Russia and China in the 13th century is now completely under the political sway of those two countries. It's ironic and sad at the same time.