[bragging]I basically know every (major) part of Chinese history, but i'm more of an expert on Qin, Late Ming, Posterior Jin + all of Qing and ROC from 1912 - 1936[/bragging]

I'm most informed about Qin, 3 Kingdoms, Tang, Yuan, Ming, Qing, ROC, PRC.

I really get mixed up about all the dynasties in the middle.

Don't worry, it's not that confusing if you take some time and think about the chronology. After three kingdoms, Jin 晉 unified China. The following is Wei Jin South and North Dynasties 魏晉南北朝, and to be unified by Sui. After Tang, warlords started to carve up China, this era was called Five Dynasties Ten Countries 五代十國, and then China was unified by a little captain of royal guards of Posterior Zhou, named Zhao Kuangyin 趙匡胤. He founded the Song Dynasty. The Song Dynasty ( North Song) tried to fight Liao Dynasty, but Song was militarily inferior. So the monarchs decided to make an alliance with the Nujen (Manchu) to exterminate Liao. Wanyen Aguda 完顏阿骨打, the leader of Nujen, defeated Liao without Song's help. The Nujen broke the alliance by invading Song's capital, Kai Feng 開封. The Song monarchs fled southward, and established South Song Dynasty, while Nujen created Jin 金 Dynasty in the north. And then Mongols , under the leadership of Genghis Khan, conquered Jin dynasty, and within 30 or 40 years, the South Song dynasty vanished. China went into the age of Yuan.

i know just about nothing on chinese history oh well -shurg

just a question you guys... do you know about the Rape of Nanking?

Yes, off course.

The eras of Chinese history I'm best familiar with are: Qin, Han, San Guo, Tang, Ming, Qing, ROC, PRC.

The eras of Chinese history I'm somewhat familiar with are: Shang, Zhou, Zhan Guo, and Yuan

The rest is kind of fuzzy to me

Oh, I know a bit here and there.

I know Qin, Han, Ming and Qing quite well.

Shang too, as that was the focus of my Ancient Civilization research paper.

I have somewhat of an understanding on every dynasty, yet, i do not get what are the 16 countires????

They were created by Five Hu - Xiongnu, Xianbei, Di , Qiang and Jie
The 16 countries were : Chung Han 成漢, Han Zhao 漢趙, Hou Zhao 後趙, Qian Liang 前涼, Qian Yen 前燕, Liang Wei 冉魏 , Qian Qin 前秦, Hou Yen 後燕, Xi Yan 西燕, Hou Qin 後秦, Xi Qin 西秦, Hou Liang 後涼, Nan Liang 南涼, Bei Liang 北涼, Nan Yen 南燕, Xi Liang 西涼, Xi Shu 西蜀, Hu Xia 胡夏, Bei Yen 北燕

I listed more than 16 countries because some of them were over taken by others

Did they like rule at the same time?

some vanished, some were conquered.
Usually the "16 countries" were referred to these 16 : 前涼,後涼,南涼,西涼,北涼,前趙,後趙,前秦,後秦,西秦,前燕,後燕,南燕,北燕,夏,成漢
The rest were perhaps insignificant

And what about the five HU?

I thought I alreayd told you. Xiongnu 匈奴, Xianbei 鮮卑, Di 氐, Qiang 羌, Jie 羯. They were the minorities that sneaked in when northern China fell into anarchy as Xi Jin monarchs fled southward.

Oh............i see, thx.
Which dynasty lasted the longest???

Qiang=Tibeto-Burman
Xia dynasty

Zhou 1066 B.C. - 221 B.C.

that's a given.

Were the five Hu came after the fell of the "Tong"(not sure of pronounciation)Dynasty?

no, Five Hu and Sixteen Countries are the same period, after the fall of Xi Jin ( West Jin)

When was this exactly?

Xi Jin unified the Three Kingdoms by 280 A.D. The Xi Jin monarchs fled in 316 A.D. So basically since then until the establishment of Sui dynasty in 581A.D., China was in a period of civil wars

How about the five generations, ten countries thingy???

That's after Tang dynasty. In the last year of Tang, Zhu Quanzhong launched a coup detat and enthroned himself as the Emperor of Liang ( historically referred as Hou Liang [ Posterior Liang])
After Liang, there are also Posterior Tang, Posterior Jin, Posterior Han and Posterior Zhou ( They are called Five Dynasties [ not five generations]). by the way, they were all in the north.
In the south, the warlords established their own regimes, the 10 countries were 吳 Wu,楚 Chu閩 Min,吳越Wuyue,前蜀Qian Shu,後蜀Houshu,南漢Nanhan,南唐 Nantang, 荊南 Jingnan,北漢 Beihan. There were more than 10 countries actually, but historians only referred to those ten. By the way, Beihan was the only country of the Ten Countries that was in the north.

I know:

Đông Chu Liệt Quốc (Eastern Chu and the Warring States [???])
Hán Sở Tranh Hùng (The War between Hán and Sở (Chinese?) after the fall of Qin)
Tam Quốc Chí (Three Kingdoms)

I AM VERY INTERESTED TO KNOW HOW MANY WARLORDS WERE ACTUALLY

OUT THERE AFTER YUAN'S DEATH.....CAN YOU NAME ALL OF THEM IF POSSIBLE

WARLORDS LAST FROM SUN YAT-SEN ERA ALL THE WAY TILL THE NEW PEOPLE'S

REPUBLIC OF CHINA WERE FOUND.....OLDER GENERATION SUCH AS

FENG GUO ZHANG IN EARLIER 20TH CENTURY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO YOUNGER

GENERATION SUCH AS LONG YUN OF

YUNNAN PROVINCE PRIOR TO COMMUNIST TOOK OVER IN 1950.


I KNOW QUITE A FEW.....BUT THOSE I GUESS WERE THE BIGGEST OF THEM ALL

AND BELOW THEM THERE WERE MANY MANY SMALLER WARLORDS ALL OVER

PROVINCIAL COUNTY EVEN MAGISTRATE

AND THERE WERE LESS FAMOUS WARLORDS FROM RELATIVELY UNKNOWN

PROVINCE ALSO.....OR LESS KNOWN PROVINCE.


ZHANG ZUO LIN (1878 - 1928) - PRESIDE OVER MANCHURIA....FENG-FACTION

DUAN QIRUI (187? - 191?) - POWER BASE AT ANHUI PROVINCE.....WAN-FACTION

FENG GUOZHANG (1859 - 1919) - RULE OVER JIANGSU.....ZHILI-FACTION

LIN YUANHONG (1864 - 1928) - OCCUPIED HUBEI

CAO KUN (1862 - 1938) - OCCUPIED HEBEI....ZHILI-FACTION

WU PEIFU (1873 - 1939) - HAILED FROM ZHEJIANG

SUN CHUANFANG (1874 - 1939) - DOMINATED FUJIAN

CHEN JIONGMING (18?? - 19??) - GUANGDONG...CAME TO FAME FOR ATTEMPTING

TO OVERTHROW SUN YAT SEN


CAI E (1882 - 1916) - YUNNAN....WAS A SUPPORTER OF YUAN SHIKAI BUT

SWITCH TO NATIONALIST SIDE BEFORE YUAN'S DEATH


LU RONGTING (1856 - 1927) - GUANGXI......

YEN XISHAN (1883 - 1960) - SHANXI....

FENG YUXIANG (1882 - 1948) - NICKNAMED CHRISTIAN GENERAL

TANG JIYAO (1882 - 1927) - YUNNAN....

TAN YANKAI (1879 - 1930) - HUNAN....XIANG-FACTION

ZHANG XUN (18?? - 1923) - ANHUI.....ATTEMPT TO RESTORE QING DYNASTY

BACK....WANTED TO BE A SECOND YUAN SHIKAI.....


LESS PROMINENT

ZHU PEIDE (1890 - 19??) - JIANGXI

LIU XIANG (1890 - 1938) - SHICHUAN

LIU ZHENHUA (1883 - 1956) - SHAANXI

ZHOU XICHENG (1893 -1929) - GUIZHOU

SHENG SHICAI (1897 - 1970) - XINJIANG


AND OF COURSE.....MANY MANY MORE



HEY ZHONGDU.....CAN YOU GIVE ME LINKS WHERE I CAN FIND DETAIL LIST

FOR ALL WARLORDS FROM 1911 TO 1949 ?????

ok, I'll try

Zhili (abv Zhi)Clique 直系 -
Feng Guozhang 馮國璋
Cao Kun 曹錕
Wu Peifu 吳佩孚
Lu Jianzhang 陸建章
Li Chun 李純
Wang Zhangyuan 王占元
Chen Guangyuan 陳光遠
Feng Yuxiang 馮玉祥 ( niece of Lu Jianzhang, but later he formed his own northwest clique)
Qi Bianyuan 齊變元
Sun Chuanfang 孫傳芳
Wang Chungbin 王承斌
Anhui (abv Wan) Clique 皖系 -
Duan Qirui 段祺瑞
Ni Sichong 倪嗣沖
Xu Shuzheng 徐樹錚
Cu Tongfeng 曲同豐
Wu Guangxin 吳光新
Jin Yunpeng 靳雲鵬
Duan Zhigui 段芝貴
Zhang Jingyao 張敬堯
Fengtian (abv Feng) Clique 奉系 -
Zhang Zuolin 張作霖
Zhang Xueliang 張學良
Zhang Zuoxiang 張作相
Wu Junsheng 吳俊陞
Guo Congling 郭松齡
Yang Yuting 楊宇霆
Zhang Zhongchang 張宗昌
Zhu Yupu 祩玉樸
Tang Yulin 湯玉麟

Smaller factions :
Yunnan Clique 滇系 -
Cai E 蔡鍔
Tang Jiyao 唐繼堯
Guangxi Clique 桂系 -
Lu Rongting 陸榮廷
Li Zhongren 李宗仁
Shanxi warlord -
Yan Xishan 閻錫山
Guangdong warlord -
Chen Jongming 陳炯明
"Pigtail Marshal" 辫帥 -
Zhang Xun 張勳

I'm sure there are other smaller ones, the list is all i can remember

Shame on you! Our history in class in highschool knew the order in freshman year.

highschool history classes don't teach Chinese history.

How'd you know? Did you go to my highschool. Let's see I'd be surprised if a world History (non-eurocentric edition 6) would concentrate on China most of the time.

Don't talk $hit about things you don't know.

I doubt average American history classes would even teach the list of Chinese dynasties

Well mine did, it's one of the most recognized highschools in the nation. We have an SAT average of 1480-1510.

well, your high school is perhaps above the average. anyway, back to the topic.

EXCELLENT LIST......AND DID YOU KNOW THAT EVEN AMONG SAME FACTION WARLORDS WERE CONSTANTLY IN WAR WITH ONE ANOTHER......WARLOARDS FROM DIFFERENT PROVINCES FORM ALLIANCE WITH THOSE WHO ARE IN THEIR
NEIGHBORING STATE AGAINST OTHER BIG FACTION.....THE LOGIC IS LIKE
YOU-HE-ZUO-YE-DOU-ZHEN ALLIANCE TOGETHER BUT YET FIGHTING WITH
ONE ANOTHER.

EVEN IN AMONG ONE PROVINCE THERES SO MANY WARLORDS......TAKE SICHUAN
FOR EXAMPLE.....YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW THAT "LIU XIANG".....A YIJI (FIRST STAR
OR TOP STAR ??) NATIONALIST ARMY GENERAL.....WAS THE MOST POWERFUL
FIGURE IN THAT PROVINCE.....BUT IN REALITY HE CONTROLED ONLY
THE CAPITAL CHONGQING KNOWN AS LOWER EAST SICHUAN WHILE
THERE WERE OTHER 4 FACTION.....THE 2 MOST POWERFUL OUT OF THESE 4
WERE NORTH LANE CONTROLLED BY YANG SEN....LI JIAYU AND LUO ZE ZUO
SOUTHWEST AND NORTH SICHUAN CONTROLLED BY LIU WENHUI....LI XIHOU AND TIAN JIYAO.

IN GUANGDONG THERE WAS 4 WAY WAR BETWEEN CHEN YITANG....CHEN MINGSHU.....XU CHONGQING AND LIN YUNGAI.....CHEN JITANG WAS THE
STRONGEST OF THEM ALL AND OCCUPY CAPITAL CANTON AND NEARBY
COASTAL AREA AND HAS STRONG AIR FORCE BEHIND ITS POWER BASE
SO HE PLAN IN A COUP ATTEMPTED TO OVERTHROW JIANG'S LEADERSHIP
BUT IT FAILED BEFORE EVEN IT BEGIN WHEN HIS SUBORDINATE YU HANMOU
DEFECT TO JIANG.


IN HUNAN.....TAN YANKAI BY FAR WAS THE STRONGEST WARLORD IN THE
WHOLE PROVINCE BUT ZHANG JINGYAO FROM THE SOUTH POSSESS THE
BIGGEST THREAT BUT ONLY FOR A BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME.....THEY BOTH
PASSED AWAY IN THEIR EARLY 50'S....TAN WAS ONLY 51 (1879 - 1930)
AND ZHANG WAS ONLY 52 (1881 - 1933)
THE LAST WARLORD OF HUNAN WAS XUE YUE.....HAVING DEFEATED
ZHANG ZHIHONG....WHO CAME TO POWER AS AN OPPORTUNIST AFTER
A THREE WAY WAR OF HE JIAN....LU DIPING AND CHEN QIAN.
XUE YUE FLED TO TAIWAN AFTER THE COMMUNIST TOOK OVER AND DIED IN TAIPEI (1896 - 1998) AT AGE 102.

IN YUNNAN.....TANG JIYAO BY FAR WAS THE MOST POWERFUL WARLORD
AFTER CAI E DIED (CAI WOULD DEFINATELY BECAME MORE POWERFUL
HAD HE NOT DIE SO YOUNG.....HE WAS SO FAMOUS IN SUPPORTING
ANTI-YUAN MOVEMENT AND SEEMS TO BE A NOBLE MILITARIST)
BUT REN KECHENG WAS HIS BIGGEST ENEMY AND BOTH HAD BEEN ON AND OFF
AS THE GOVERNOR OF YUNNAN.....REN SERVED FOR 2 TIMES AND TANG 4 TIMES.
LONG YUN WAS THE LAST WARLORD IN YUNNAN....HE WAS A BLACK BELT
MARTIAL ARTIST....EVEN AT AN ADVANCE AGE OF 70 SOMETHING.....NOT EVEN
6 MAN CAN TAKE HIM DOWN (HIS BODYGUARDS)....I HAVE NO IDEA WHICH YEAR
LONG WAS BORN AND DEAD....STILL TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.


NICE INTERESTING TOPIC ZHONGDU.....LETS CONTINUE THIS PRIVATE
CONVERSATION IN MSN MESSENGER SHALL WE ?? DID YOU GET MY PM ??
IF NOT.....THEN I'LL SAY IT RIGHT HERE
MY MSN NICKNAME IS "JJ_XX_XX_JJ"......ADD ME AND HOLLA BACK AT ME
LOOKING FORWORD TO EXCHANGE MORE KNOWLEDGE REGARDS THIS ISSUE ABOUT CHINESE WARLORDS LOLZ

ITS "JJ_XX_XX_JJ@HOTMAIL.COM"

you're right. Sichuan was basically a free-for-all situation. I knew there were averagingly at least two major battles fought a month. For 17 years, about 430 battles were fought in Sichuan. Like you said, Liu Xiang was powerful and famous, but he himself couldn''t control the entire province. There were also Luo Peijin 羅佩金, Dai Kan 戴勘 and Liu Chunhou 劉存厚 and the rest I can't remember. Liu Xiang remained powerful, even on the eve of Battle of Zhongyuan, he was a part of anti-Jiang alliance too. Yiji was 陸軍一級上將 First Class Army General I think. President Cao Kun was promoted the First Class after his death in 1938.

ya, Hunan was a mess too. Hunan had always been the major battle ground of North-South civil wars. For Hunan, I could only remember Zhang Jingyao, Chung Qian 程淺, Tan Yange 譚延閣. By the way, it's funny that Zhang Jingyao had three brother - Zhang Jingshun 張敬舜, Zhang Jingyu 張敬禹, and Zhang Jingtang 張敬湯. Yao Shun Yu Tang were the 4 great emperor of ancient China, yet these 4 brothers were among the worst, ruthless warlords in Beiyang era.
I can't recall much about Yunnan. Cai E had support but I don't think he would become a warlord like Tang Jiyao. After the Huguo movement , Cai E declared that he would resign because the movement was out of the love of the republic, not a military expansion.


Having discussions with you is very interesting. well, I think we can continue to discuss on here so people who are interested can read our posts. Besides, I think it's difficult to have lengthy words made on MSN messenger.