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Wulandari
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/03...y.ap/index.html




QUOTE
Muslim anger on cartoons spreads

No apology over Mohammed images, says Denmark



GAZA CITY (AP) -- Tens of thousands of angry Muslims marched through Palestinian cities, burning the Danish flag and calling for vengeance Friday against European countries where caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed were published.

Angry protests against the drawings spread in the Muslim world.

In Washington, the U.S. State Department criticized the drawings, calling them "offensive to the beliefs of Muslims."

In Iraq, thousands demonstrated after Friday mosque prayers, and the country's leading Shiite cleric denounced the drawings. About 4,500 people rallied in the southern city of Basra and burned the Danish flag.

Muslims in Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia demonstrated against the European nations whose papers published the caricatures, including one depicting the Muslim prophet wearing a turban fashioned into a bomb.

The drawings first appeared in a Danish paper in September but were reprinted this week in papers in Norway, France, Germany and even Jordan after Muslims decried the images as insulting.

Dutch-language newspapers in Belgium and two Italian right-wing papers reprinted the drawings on Friday. The Italian papers also ran editorials criticizing European media for giving in to pressure over the drawings.

Islamic law, based on clerics' interpretation of the Quran and the sayings of the prophet, forbids depiction's of the Prophet Mohammed and other major religious figures -- even positive ones -- to prevent idolatry. Shiite Muslim clerics differ in that they allow images of their greatest saint, Ali, the prophet's son-in-law, though not Mohammed.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, in a meeting with Egypt's ambassador, reiterated his stance that the government cannot interfere with issues concerning the press. On Monday, he said his government could not apologize on behalf of a newspaper, but that he personally "never would have depicted Muhammed, Jesus or any other religious character in a way that could offend other people."

While recognizing the importance of freedom of the press and expression, U.S. State Department press officer Janelle Hironimus said these rights must be coupled with press responsibility.

"Inciting religious or ethnic hatred in this manner is not acceptable," Hironimus said. "We call for tolerance and respect for all communities and for their religious beliefs and practices."

Early Friday, Palestinian militants threw a bomb at a French cultural center in Gaza City, and many Palestinians began boycotting European goods, especially those from Denmark.

"Whoever defames our prophet should be executed," said Ismail Hassan, 37, a tailor who marched through the pouring rain along with hundreds of others in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

"Bin Laden our beloved, Denmark must be blown up," protesters in Ramallah chanted.

An imam at the Omari Mosque in Gaza City told 9,000 worshippers that those behind them should have their heads cut off.

"If they want a war of religions, we are ready," Hassan Sharaf, an imam in Nablus, said in his sermon.

About 10,000 demonstrators, including gunmen from the Islamic militant group Hamas firing in the air, marched through Gaza City to the Palestinian legislature, where they climbed on the roof, waving green Hamas banners and chanting "Down, Down Denmark!"

Thousands protested in Nablus and Jenin, burning Danish flags and dairy products.

Fearing violence, Israel barred all Palestinians under age 45 from praying at Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque compound, Islam's third holiest site.

Nevertheless, about 100 men chanting Islamic slogans and carrying a green Hamas flag demonstrated outside Jerusalem's Old City on Friday afternoon. The crowd scattered when police on horseback arrived, and some of the protesters threw rocks.

In Iraq, both Shiite and Sunni preachers spoke out against the drawings during Friday prayers, with many calling for a boycott of Danish goods. In Baghdad's Sunni Arab stronghold of Azamiyah, about 600 protesters outside a mosque burned a Danish flag and boxes of Danish cheese.

The country's top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, decried the drawings but did not call for protests.

"We strongly denounce and condemn this horrific action," he said in a statement posted on his Web site and dated Tuesday.

Al-Sistani, who wields enormous influence over Iraq's majority Shiites, suggested militant Muslims were partly to blame. He referred to "misguided and oppressive" segments of the Muslim community and said their actions "projected a distorted and dark image of the faith of justice, love and brotherhood."

The drawings were first published in September in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. The issue reignited last week after Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador to Denmark and many European newspapers reprinted them this week.

The Jyllands-Posten said it had asked cartoonists to draw images of the prophet "to examine whether people would succumb to self-censorship, as we have seen in other cases when it comes to Muslim issues."

Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was quoted as saying the caricatures are an attack on "our spiritual values," adding they had damaged efforts to establish an alliance between the Muslim world and Europe. Hundreds of Turks emerging from mosques following Friday prayers staged demonstrations, including one in front of the Danish consulate in Istanbul.

In the Indonesian capital Jakarta, more than 150 hardline Muslims stormed a high-rise building housing the Danish Embassy and tore down and burned the country's white and red flag. The government ordered police to upgrade security at embassies across the capital.

Pakistan's parliament unanimously voted to condemn the drawings as a "vicious, outrageous and provocative campaign" that has "hurt the faith and feelings of Muslims all over the world." About 800 people protested in Islamabad, chanting "Death to Denmark" and "Death to France." Another rally in the southern city of Karachi drew 1,200.

Fundamentalist Muslims protested outside the Danish Embassy in Malaysia, chanting "Long live Islam, destroy our enemies."

In Europe, senior British, French and Italian officials criticized the drawings. Austria, which holds the European Union presidency, expressed concern over the escalating crisis.

"I believe that the republication of these cartoons has been unnecessary, it has been insensitive, it has been disrespectful and it has been wrong," British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said.

In London, hundreds of demonstrators converged on Denmark's Embassy and burned the Danish flag. Women wearing headscarves chanted and held banners proclaiming: "Kill the one who insults the Prophet."

CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/03...y.ap/index.html






Just for cartoon, Muslims threaten to murder innoncent people?

confused.gif
Lint
Well to them it's worse than making fun of your own mother, besides which, visually depicting Mohammed in any way is strictly against their religion and punishable by considerable violence

That said, the majority of those making threats are probably troublemakers.
johnleemk
I don't understand why they are blaming the whole of Denmark -- especially its government -- for the actions of a private newspaper.
Wulandari
QUOTE (Lint @ Feb 4 2006, 04:27 AM)
Well to them it's worse than making fun of your own mother, besides which, visually depicting Mohammed in any way is strictly against their religion and punishable by considerable violence

That said, the majority of those making threats are probably troublemakers.
*






confused.gif

Making fun of Muhammad Saw is worse than making fun of their mothers?

I don't think so !!

Both are not good !

But, those "making fun" do not justify people to murder other people.

In our life, all of us ever be made fun by other people. But, there are no justifications to murder those people who made fun about us !!

If Muslims use those cartoons as justifications to murder civilians, IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, it means Islam is identical with violence.

To understand the real matter, in the last two months, I have been reading many writings in a good website, called: FAITH FREEDOM INTERNATIONAL.

This website explains everything about Islam, including about the cartoon of Muhammad Saw

Here is the internet link about the website and the cartoon:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/



And here is the famous cartoon about Muhammad Saw:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/28.htm



As we can see from those cartoons, there is nothing special about them. It is just Islam who enjoy doing violences with all kinds of rubbish excuses !!
Jagger
Those Palestinian terrorists were the ONLY ones that are making the threats! No other Muslim in any other country has made any threats, but only some in Palestine (a war-torn country).

QUOTE (Wulandari @ Feb 4 2006, 03:00 PM)
To understand the real matter, in the last two months, I have been reading many writings in a good website, called: FAITH FREEDOM INTERNATIONAL.

This website explains everything about Islam, including about the cartoon of Muhammad Saw

Here is the internet link about the website and the cartoon:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/
And here is the famous cartoon about Muhammad Saw:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/28.htm
As we can see from those cartoons, there is nothing special about them. It is just Islam who enjoy doing violences with all kinds of rubbish excuses !!
*

An obviously biased anti-Islamic propoganda website is NOT a good source of information about a religion. That website even admits its own bias:

QUOTE (http://www.faithfreedom.org)
About
Faith Freedom International

Islamic terrorism is inspired by Islamic teachings. We can never get rid of Islamic terrorism unless we defeat the ideology behind it and that is Islam itself. Islam induces hate backed by lies. Muhammad was a terrorist by his own admission. All Muslims, to the extent that they follow him, are terrorists. Those Muslims who are not terrorists are ignorant of Islam and are not good Muslims. Fortunately they are the majority. We need to rescue them. If you are a good human being, you are not a Muslim. Read this site and if you can't prove me wrong, which you certainly can't, leave this deceitful cult of hate and terror and join mankind. Don't be part of the Umma. Umma is fascism. It is divisive. It induces the hatred of others. Be part of humanity instead. Your ignorance is not an excuse. Pull your head out of the sand and face the truth, like we did.

Yes that's a very good source of information you have there... icon_rolleyes.gif If you want to really learn about Islam, try reading from a balanced and non-biased website.
lilazndude
get dem N*ggas!!
JMAC
QUOTE (lilazndude @ Feb 4 2006, 09:51 PM)
get dem N*ggas!!
*

why is it always about niggaz? sure.gif
johnleemk
If only the Palestinians are being violent about this, why did the Syrians burn down the Danish embassy in Damascus? The West is now trying to pressure Hamas into changing its foreign policy towards Israel. But now it seems the Muslims are trying to pressure Denmark into changing its internal policy.
Wulandari
QUOTE (johnleemk @ Feb 4 2006, 11:43 PM)
If only the Palestinians are being violent about this, why did the Syrians burn down the Danish embassy in Damascus? The West is now trying to pressure Hamas into changing its foreign policy towards Israel. But now it seems the Muslims are trying to pressure Denmark into changing its internal policy.
*






It must be differentiated between Muslim Palestinians and NON Muslim Palestinians.

Non Muslim Palestinians are much more peaceful than Muslim Palestinians. It is because NON Muslim Palestinians are not taught hatred religion like Islam.

And, it is not just Syrians and Palestinians who did barbaric acts against human beings, but many Muslims in England and other countries make threat to Non Muslims.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4682388.stm


QUOTE
Nordic uproar at Syrian protests



Denmark and Norway have condemned Syria for failing to stop attacks on their embassies in a row over the publication of contentious cartoons.

Syrians set fire to the Norwegian and Danish embassies in Damascus in protest at the publication of newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

The two Nordic countries said it was unacceptable that Syrian authorities had allowed protests to take place.

The two countries have called for their citizens to leave Syria.

'Inexcusable failure'

The US also criticised Syria's approach, saying it was "inexcusable" for such damage to be inflicted on diplomatic missions.

"The United States condemns in the strongest terms the burning of the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus, Syria today, which also damaged the Chilean and Swedish embassies," a White House spokesman said.

"The government of Syria's failure to provide protection to diplomatic premises, in the face of warnings that violence was planned, is inexcusable."

Protesters had scaled the Danish site amid chants of "God is great", before moving on to attack the Norwegian mission.

The cartoons sparked Muslim outrage across the world, following their publication in a Danish paper in September.

One depicts Muhammad as a terrorist. Any images of the Prophet are banned under Islamic tradition.


CARTOON ROW
30 Sept: Danish paper publishes cartoons
20 Oct: Muslim ambassadors complain to Danish PM
10 Jan: Norwegian publication reprints cartoons
26 Jan: Saudi Arabia recalls its ambassador
30 Jan: Gunmen raid EU's Gaza office demanding apology
31 Jan: Danish paper apologises
1 Feb: Papers in France, Germany, Italy and Spain reprint cartoons

However, several European papers recently reprinted the cartoons, citing free speech.

The publications prompted diplomatic sanctions, boycotts and death threats in some Arab nations.

Two Jordanian editors who published the cartoons have been arrested.

Syrians have staged sit-ins outside the Danish embassy since the row intensified earlier this week, when Damascus recalled its ambassador.

Some removed the Danish flag and replaced it with another reading: "There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God."

The embassy was closed, and no diplomats were reported to have been injured in either attack.

Danish 'distress'

Outside the Norwegian embassy, police fired tear gas to try to disperse the protesters, but some broke in and set it ablaze.

Demonstrators also tried to storm the French mission, but were stopped.

On Friday, the Danish prime minister made a new bid to calm anger, by explaining his position over the publication to Muslim ambassadors.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen said he could never apologise for a newspaper's actions, but said he was "distressed" at offence caused.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/worl...ast/4682388.stm

Published: 2006/02/05 03:52:11 GMT






Islam always consider itself as "the best religion" in the world.

Islam considers killing non Muslims, especially Jews and Christians is justified. It is because those killings are written in Islam's holly bible, Al Quran.

That's why Islam feel no remorse when they kill non Muslims, such as in : WTC attack in September 11, 2001, killing and burning of hundreds of churches in Indonesia, killing of innoncent Non Muslims in Thailand and many many many.....

But, if non Muslims make fun of Islam's prophet Muhammad Saw, Muslim get mad.

Muslims forget one thing: the cartoon of Muhammad Saw is nothing compared with barbaric acts done by Muslims on Non Muslims all over the world

What a sick religion, Islam is !!

thumbsdown.gif
Jagger
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Feb 5 2006, 04:32 AM)
Islam considers killing non Muslims, especially Jews and Christians is justified. It is because those killings are written in Islam's holly bible, Al Quran.
*

Maybe you should actually READ the Qu'ran before buying into all the fake propoganda. Most of those anti-Islamic websites are just as ridiculous as Stormfront (a white supremacy website). Talktohand.gif
Lint
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Feb 5 2006, 12:32 PM)
What a sick religion, Islam is !!

*


So whats a healthy one?
Wulandari
QUOTE (Jagger @ Feb 5 2006, 01:48 AM)
Maybe you should actually READ the Qu'ran before buying into all the fake propoganda. Most of those anti-Islamic websites are just as ridiculous as Stormfront (a white supremacy website).  Talktohand.gif
*






I agree with you, my dear

We all must read Al Quran before considering what Islam is !!

I have a good source explaining about evil verses in Koran asking Muslims to murder Jews and Christians and Non Muslims.

Here is the internet link

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm


There are so many evil verses in Koran, some of them:


QUOTE
Quran  Surah 4: Women 

  1. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14

  2. For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18
 
3. For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37

 
4. Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55
  5. Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56

  6. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74
 


7. Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76
  8. Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89

  9. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91
( Offering peace in Islam means surrendering. All 67 out of 68 wars of Muhammad were offensive. They are called qazwah (raid, ambush, sudden attack). That is how Muhammad waged his wars. He raided, massacred and looted civilians with no warning. The one defensive war, 'ditch' was not fought. That is why the Islamic terrorism 'jihad' will continue until the West "offers peace". This was made clear by Bin Laden.)


  10. Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 115
  11. Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 137
  12. For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 138
  13. Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 140
  14. The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 145
  15. You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 150-151
  16. For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 161
  17. God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 168-169

 




And there are many many many other evil verses asking Muslims to do violence acts on Non Muslims.

From Koran, we all can see how dangerous Islam is for human beings.




For Muslims:


Islam always teaches that verses in Koran directly came from its God called Allah.

If you Muslims deny just one verse from your own Koran, you are no longer a Muslim. You already convert your Islam religion to other religion. It is because you deny your own holly bible and your own God's words.

Think carefully before you deny your own evil verses in your own bible, Koran
Mid-Night_Sun
wow..according to the koran, im going to have alot of 'painful dooms'.
pun187
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Feb 5 2006, 05:54 PM)
I have a good source explaining about evil verses in Koran asking Muslims to murder Jews and Christians and Non Muslims.

Here is the internet link

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm
*

"good source" icon_rolleyes.gif
Wulandari
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Feb 5 2006, 11:57 AM)
wow..according to the koran, im going to have alot of 'painful dooms'.
*






Unfortunately, YES !!

icon_sad.gif


By considering NON Muslim as "bad guys", Islam is no better than NAZI !!

Actually, Islam is worse than NAZI, at least NAZI didn't pretend to be good guys. On the contrary, Islam is always pretending to be good guys/good religion, but in reality, Islam is doing evil stuff IN THE NAME OF ALLAH (their god)



And here is the similar thread in OTHER CULTURE forum

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...pic=62648&st=40
Mid-Night_Sun
so when do i get my many painful dooms...no seriously, cuz i got driving class in 30 min...and i dont really want a painful doom, w/e it is, during class.
Wulandari
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Feb 5 2006, 12:12 PM)
so when do i get my many painful dooms...no seriously, cuz i got driving class in 30 min...and i dont really want a painful doom, w/e it is, during class.
*






embarassedlaugh.gif2


You should ask that question to Muslims, not me. Muslims know better any ways to make Non Muslims experience painful dooms. They have a good manual book about that (Koran)

biggrin.gif
pun187
dude atleast give us the right numbers of the Chapters and Verses you posted here.Its totally messed up
Jagger
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Feb 5 2006, 03:54 PM)
I have a good source explaining about evil verses in Koran asking Muslims to murder Jews and Christians and Non Muslims.

Here is the internet link

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

QUOTE

Quran  Surah 4: Women 

  1. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14

  2. For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18
 
3. For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37

 
4. Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55
  5. Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56

  6. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74
 

7. Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76
  8. Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89

  9. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91 ( Offering peace in Islam means surrendering. All 67 out of 68 wars of Muhammad were offensive. They are called qazwah (raid, ambush, sudden attack). That is how Muhammad waged his wars. He raided, massacred and looted civilians with no warning. The one defensive war, 'ditch' was not fought. That is why the Islamic terrorism 'jihad' will continue until the West "offers peace". This was made clear by Bin Laden.)


  10. Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 115
  11. Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 137
  12. For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 138
  13. Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 140
  14. The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 145
  15. You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 150-151
  16. For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 161
  17. God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 168-169

There are so many evil verses in Koran, some of them:
And there are many many many other evil verses asking Muslims to do violence acts on Non Muslims.

From Koran, we all can see how dangerous Islam is for human beings.
*


And you expect me to believe whatever that propoganda website says? The only thing your "evidence" has proven is that the faithfreedom website is made by a bunch of liars, since those verses are completely and utterly FAKE. (Not to mention your quote contained absolutely nothing about "Women")

You should go to this website for REAL translations of the Qu'ran:

http://www.sacred-texts.com

This website has far more reliable translations of the Qu'ran, Bible, Torah, Vedas, etc than any of your propoganda websites.

Here's what Surah 4 of the Qu'ran really says:
QUOTE (http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/pick/004.htm)
4. an-Nisa': Women

1 O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allah in Whom ye claim (your rights) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bare you). Lo! Allah hath been a watcher over you.

2 Give unto orphans their wealth. Exchange not the good for the bad (in your management thereof) nor absorb their wealth into your own wealth. Lo! that would be a great sin.

3 And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

4 And give unto the women (whom ye marry) free gift of their marriage portions; but if they of their own accord remit unto you a part thereof, then ye are welcome to absorb it (in your wealth).

5 Give not unto the foolish (what is in) your (keeping of their) wealth, which Allah hath given you to maintain; but feed and clothe them from it, and speak kindly unto them.

6 Prove orphans till they reach the marriageable age; then, if ye find them of sound judgment, deliver over unto them their fortune; and devour it not by squandering and in haste lest they should grow up Whoso (of the guardians) is rich, let him abstain generously (from taking of the property of orphans); and whoso is poor let him take thereof in reason (for his guardianship). And when ye deliver up their fortune unto orphans, have (the transaction) witnessed in their presence. Allah sufficeth as a Reckoner.

7 Unto the men (of a family) belongeth a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, and unto the women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be little or much - a legal share.

8 And when kinsfolk and orphans and the needy are present at the division (of the heritage), bestow on them therefrom and speak kindly unto them.

9 And let those fear (in their behaviour toward orphans) who if they left behind them weak offspring would be afraid for them. So let them mind their duty to Allah, and speak justly.

10 Lo! Those who devour the wealth of orphans wrongfully, they do but swallow fire into their bellies, and they will be exposed to burning flame.

11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. And to each of his parents a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a son; and if he have no son and his parents are his heirs, then to his mother appertaineth the third; and if he have brethren, then to his mother appertaineth the sixth, after any legacy he may have bequeathed, or debt (hath been paid). Your parents and your children: Ye know not which of them is nearer unto you in usefulness. It is an injunction from Allah. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.

12 And unto you belongeth a half of that which your wives leave, if they have no child; but if they have a child then unto you the fourth of that which they leave, afte r any legacy they may have bequeathed, or debt (they ma y have contracted, hath been paid). And unto them belon geth the fourth of that which ye leave if ye have no ch ild, but if ye have a child then the eighth of that whi ch ye leave, after any legacy ye may have bequeathed, o r debt (ye may have contracted, hath been paid). And if a man or a woman have a distant heir (having left neit her parent nor child), and he (or she) have a brother o r a sister (only on the mother's side) then to each of them twain (the brother and the sister) the sixth, and if they be more than two, then they shall be sharers in the third, after any legacy that may have been bequeat hed or debt (contracted) not injuring (the heirs by wil ling away more than a third of the heritage) hath been

13 These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success.

14 And whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger and transgresseth His limits, He will make him enter Fire, where he will dwell for ever; his will be a shameful doom.

15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).

16 And as for the two of you who are guilty thereof, punish them both. And if they repent and improve, then let them be. Lo! Allah is ever relenting, Merciful.

17 Forgiveness is only incumbent on Allah toward those who do evil in ignorance (and) then turn quickly (in repentance) to Allah. These are they toward whom Allah relenteth. Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

As you can see, it mentions absolutely NOTHING about killing non-believers! You should really stop reading that website if you want to learn about the real Islam.
tangawizi
Before this goes off-topic on the veracity of Koranic verses, howabt understanding the core issues at hand regarding this furore:


Free speech and civic responsibility
Tariq Ramadan TMSI

SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2006
GENEVA There are three things we have to bear in mind about the controversy over the cartoons published in the European media depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

First, it is against Islamic principles to represent in imagery not only Muhammad, but all the prophets of Islam. This is a clear prohibition.

Second, in the Muslim world, we are not used to laughing at religion, our own or anybody else's. This is far from our understanding. For that reason, these cartoons are seen, by average Muslims and not just radicals, as a transgression against something sacred, a provocation against Islam.

Third, Muslims must understand that laughing at religion is a part of the broader culture in which they live in Europe, going back to Voltaire. Cynicism, irony and indeed blasphemy are part of the culture.

When you live in such an environment as a Muslim, it is really important to be able to take a critical distance and not react so emotionally. You need to hold to your Islamic principles, but be wise enough not to overreact to provocation.

For Muslim majority countries to react emotionally to these cartoons with boycotts is to nurture the extremists on the other side, making it a test of wills. On one side, the extremists argue: "See, we told you, the West is against Islam." On the other side they say, "See, Muslims can't be integrated into Europe, and they are destroying our values by not accepting what we stand for." This way of opening a debate on emotional grounds is, in fact, a way of closing the door on rational discourse.

What we need now on both sides is an understanding that this is not a legal issue, or an issue of rights. Free speech is a right in Europe and legally protected. No one should contest this. At the same time, there should be an understanding that the complexion of European society has changed with immigrants from diverse cultures. Because of that, there should be sensitivity to Muslims and others living in Europe.

There are no legal limits to free speech, but there are civic limits. In any society, there is a civic understanding that free speech should be used wisely so not as to provoke sensitivities, particularly in hybrid, multicultural societies we see in the world today. It is a matter of civic responsibility and wisdom, not a question of legality or rights. In that context, I think it was unwise to publish these cartoons, because it is the wrong way to start a debate about integration because it inflames emotions, not courts reason. It is a useless provocation.

How does one imagine that the average Muslim in Europe who opposes terrorism will react seeing the Prophet Muhammad depicted with a bomb in his turban? Publishing these cartoons is a very stupid way to address the issue of freedom of speech.

Now it is a power struggle. Who will have the final word? Who is right? Who will have the upper hand? It was stupid to publish these cartoons in Denmark now. What do we want, to polarize our world or build bridges?

Look, let's have a true debate about the future of our society. Muslims have to understand there is free speech in Europe, and that is that. On the other side, there needs to be an understanding that sensitive issues must be addressed with wisdom and prudence, not provocation. Just because you have the legal right to do something doesn't mean you have to do it. You have to understand the people around you. Do I go around insulting people just because I'm free to do it? No. It's called civic responsibility.

(Tariq Ramadan is a visiting professor at Oxford's St. Antony's college and a senior research fellow at the Lokahi Foundation in London. He is author of "Western Muslims and the Future of Islam . This Global Viewpoint article was distributed by Tribune Media Services International. His comments are adapted from an interview with Global Viewpoint editor Nathan Gardels.)

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/05/opinion/edramadan.php
raindropz
but how do they know how mohammed looked liked? and it's a cartoon a cartoon is something funny not to be taken seriously, that person could be anybody confused.gif
pancaindera
i think the muslims have a right to be angry. but probably not to the extent of wanting to chop ppls heads off. thats just stupid.
Lint
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Feb 6 2006, 12:11 AM)
Unfortunately, YES !!

icon_sad.gif
By considering NON Muslim as "bad guys", Islam is no better than NAZI !!

Actually, Islam is worse than NAZI, at least NAZI didn't pretend to be good guys. On the contrary, Islam is always pretending to be good guys/good religion, but in reality, Islam is doing evil stuff IN THE NAME OF ALLAH (their god)
And here is the similar thread in OTHER CULTURE forum

http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...pic=62648&st=40
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The only valid thing you said was about the OTHER CULTURE forum


QUOTE (raindropz @ Feb 6 2006, 08:14 AM)
but how do they know how mohammed looked liked? and it's a cartoon a cartoon is something funny not to be taken seriously, that person could be anybody confused.gif
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That's the whole point, you don't want to know what mohammed looks like since it leads to idoltry (worshipping an image/statue). Look at what the chinese did to the buddha. He's not even sposed to be a god icon_confused.gif
pancaindera
is Mohammed supposed to be a god or prophet?
Lint
prophet
pun187
QUOTE (pancaindera @ Feb 6 2006, 02:44 AM)
i think the muslims have a right to be angry. but probably not to the extent of wanting to chop ppls heads off. thats just stupid.
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My friend there are 1,2 billion Muslims in the world ,but you'll always see "Stupid Muslims"in the media;I mean who wants to see a Muslim peacefully praying at home ? All Muslims 99.99% mainstream 00.01%,but the 00.01% gives Islam and Muslims a negative view throughout the world.
samheisfl
Well.. For you guys out there, you can think on your own with what some people say.. The internet easily gives biased commend about others and those who are cunning enough will try to persuade other people..
pancaindera
QUOTE (pun187 @ Feb 6 2006, 09:27 AM)
My friend there are 1,2 billion Muslims in the world ,but you'll always see "Stupid Muslims"in the media;I mean who wants to see a Muslim peacefully praying at home ? All Muslims 99.99% mainstream 00.01%,but the 00.01% gives Islam and Muslims a negative view throughout the world.
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thats is why i said they are stupid. they should realise by now the consequence of displaying their violence on the streets, which is, the media is going to take advantage of this and portray muslims as violent people. the innocent 99% gets implicated as well because of these brainless 1%. imo, theyre the ones who should have their heads chopped off. maybe the silent, moderate and peaceful muslims majority should speak up against these minority. i dunno. the media is almost always evil, all we can do is play by their rules.
Lint
QUOTE (pancaindera @ Feb 6 2006, 09:44 PM)
i dunno. the media is almost always evil, all we can do is play by their rules.
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If you're going to play by the media's rules you're a sheep. They've contributed more to islamic extremism than the extremists themselves.
pancaindera
QUOTE (Lint @ Feb 7 2006, 03:13 AM)
If you're going to play by the media's rules you're a sheep. They've contributed more to islamic extremism than the extremists themselves.
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what if i said, beat them at their own game, instead ?
Protoculture
QUOTE (Wulandari @ Feb 4 2006, 10:00 AM)
In our life, all of us ever be made fun by other people. But, there are no justifications to murder those people who made fun about us !!

If Muslims use those cartoons as justifications to murder civilians, IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, it means Islam is identical with violence.

As we can see from those cartoons, there is nothing special about them. It is just Islam who enjoy doing violences with all kinds of rubbish excuses !!
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To insult Prophet Muhammad, even through a insignificant cartoon, is blasphemy. We Muslims do not even dare to insult beloved Prophet Jesus, who're worshipped by Christians.

There are reasons why Muslims are not allow to depict Prophet Muhammad's face or figure in any form, as to prevent that overzealous Muslims may actually worshipped the long dead Prophet & forgotten One True God, Allah.

To say Islam promote violence is bias, how about Tamil Tigers Hindu terrorists in Sri Lanka, or the IRA's Catholic terrorists?
tangawizi
It's interesting to take a look at European blasphemy laws... let's examine the UK's for instance...

There's apparently blasphemy laws still applicable in the UK.

QUOTE
In the UK courts blasphemy laws only protect Christians. The Concise Law Dictionary points out that blasphemy is only valid if it affects the Christian God, Jesus Christ, the Christian Bible or the Christian Book of Common Prayer. Blasphemous libel occurs not only when hateful literature is published, "reviling" or "scurrilous", but even when "ludicrous matter" relating to Christian concepts it published. Something merely has to be "ludicrous" to Christians in order to blasphemy charges to be brought. Thankfully it is very rarely used and is loathed by the legal world itself.

It is worth pointing out again that UK blasphemy laws only protect Christians. However ridiculous this seems, it is true. This has been true since the 19th century. It was tested and confirmed in an appeal to the House of Lords. "In Lord Scarman's opinion, the law should be extended to protect the religious beliefs and feelings of non-Christians. Lord Scarman stated that: 'In an increasingly plural society such as that of modern Britain it is necessary not only to respect the differing religious beliefs and practices of all but also to protect them from scurrility, vilification, ridicule and contempt.'"

In the Constitutional & Administrative Law book it states that for the fifty-five years between 1922 and 1977 there were no prosecutions for blasphemous libel[Barnett, 2002]. It was rightly thought and felt by all that such outdated laws were no longer usable in court. But then two cases in 1979 and 1990 highlighted the fact that UK law can still uphold the anachronistic and embarrassing common law offence of "blasphemy".

"The last man to be sent to prison for blasphemy was John William Gott. In 1922 he was sentenced to nine months' hard labour for comparing Jesus with a circus clown. In Scotland, there has not been a public prosecution since 1843." [BBC News, 1]. The 1843 prosecution was when bookseller Thomas Paterson was sentenced at Edinburgh High Court to 15 months in prison for selling blasphemous books.
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/blasphemy.html


I think each nation should take up the case against the newspapers which reprinted the offending cartoons under their own blasphemy laws. We can be sure the UK will do nuthin' in tis case as has happened in the case involving Rushdie..

QUOTE
In 1990 R. v. Chief Metropolitan Stipendiary Magistrate, ex parte Choudhury 3 W.L.R. 986 [Bone, 2001] it was confirmed that UK blasphemy laws did not protect Muslims from anti-Islam blasphemy, when some British Muslims attempted to invoke the law against Salman Rushdie for his writing of "The Satanic Verses"


Googled on Danish laws on blasphemy - couldn't find nuthin'.. maybe the muslims should lobby peacefully for blasphemy laws to be enacted rather than giving out death threats and burning flags and embassies? icon_neutral.gif
tangawizi
QUOTE (Protoculture @ Feb 7 2006, 11:59 AM)
To insult Prophet Muhammad, even through a insignificant cartoon, is blasphemy. We Muslims do not even dare to insult beloved Prophet Jesus, who're worshipped by Christians.
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A fren of mind retorted that newspapers in the Middle East regularly insult the Jewish and their religion with caricatures, is that true?
tangawizi
When the Talibans blew up the Bamiyan buddhist statues, what were the reactions of muslims and buddhists around the world like, do you recall?

I was personally quite revulsed by that news... and think that the Talibans should have been prosecuted for blasphemy too, juz like these newspaper editors... but as an American buddhist told me, such a prosecution would be contrary to the Buddha's true teachings which teaches that nothing is permanent, not even the Bamiyan statues.
pancaindera
yes^^i remember in UK law the terms 'ethnic' or 'race' in one of its anti-discriminatory laws was originally intended to protect the jews only. but i think now they have widen the scope. now i heard u can get fined for saying p@ki. (probably off topic, sorry)
tangawizi
But think about it, if we all start to enact and enforce blasphemy laws - wouldn't it be like a return to the Dark Ages?

Amnesty International has warned about the abuse of blasphemy laws which has often been used to promote religio-political tyranny and hegemony in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan (Talibans).
tangawizi
Ha! According to our trusty Wikipedia, there is an outstanding suit against the BBC for blasphemy!

When the BBC decided to broadcast Jerry Springer: The Opera in January 2005, they received over 47,000 complaints by offended Christian viewers who objected to the show's portrayal of Christian icons (including one scene depicting Jesus, dressed as a baby, professing to be "a bit gay"). The prayer group Christian Voice announced that it would be bringing a private blasphemy prosecution against the BBC - this case is still ongoing and details are as yet unclear. The play is to be performed in April 2006 in Milton Keynes and is already (in September 2005) creating controversy in the local press. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law..._United_Kingdom
Jagger
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 7 2006, 12:55 PM)
A fren of mind retorted that newspapers in the Middle East regularly insult the Jewish and their religion with caricatures, is that true?
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That's highly unlikely. The prophets of Judaism and Christianity are also prophets in Islam. This is why Muslims don't insult Jewish and Christian prophets.
pun187
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 7 2006, 02:55 PM)
A fren of mind retorted that newspapers in the Middle East regularly insult the Jewish and their religion with caricatures, is that true?
*

There is a big difference between insulting a political figure/leader and a religious prophet.
tangawizi
It seems anti-Jewish caricatures appear daily in arab newspapers across the Middle East. Even if these papers do not target the prophets deliberately, Abraham, the prophets, Jesus etc. were all Jews. How do Muslims reconcile their supposed great respect for the Jewish origins of their religion with their 'anti-Semitism'?
forrestcat
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 7 2006, 09:38 PM)
It seems anti-Jewish caricatures appear daily in arab newspapers across the Middle East.  Even if these papers do not target the prophets deliberately, Abraham, the prophets, Jesus etc. were all Jews. How do Muslims reconcile their supposed great respect for the Jewish origins of their religion with their 'anti-Semitism'?
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Lol.. we are not Arabs. What makes u think that whatever they do have to do with us in SEA............. they had wars with Israel so they have a score to settle with Israel and Jewry.... but Malaysia and Indonesia did not................... so anti-semitism is not a big deal in SEA. Malaysia only severe diplomatic ties with Israel until the Palestinian state is established ...and since that has not happened yet, no Israeli embassy in KL.

While i am displeased with the bloody rioteers who make a fool of themselves and us here, I observe history is repeating himself. Before WW2, French and German media has been labelling each other fools and inferior which led to German-French hostility which also led to WW2, and now the Western media is doing the same.....against the Muslims and this is creating the same effect. If u read some History books, the media especially newspapers has been a factor that led to WW2 and spread anti-semitism amongst Europeans. When will we ever learn icon_redface.gif
Lint
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 7 2006, 09:38 PM)
It seems anti-Jewish caricatures appear daily in arab newspapers across the Middle East.  Even if these papers do not target the prophets deliberately, Abraham, the prophets, Jesus etc. were all Jews. How do Muslims reconcile their supposed great respect for the Jewish origins of their religion with their 'anti-Semitism'?
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All muslims shouldn't have to reconcile just because some arab newspapers publish tasteless material.
tangawizi
Hmmmm.... I have read similar distasteful comments made by the former political leader of Malaysia. He is well known for his anti-semitic views. That said, I know not everyone would subscribe to his views and he can take responsibility for those views himself. But anti-semitic views are found in SEA muslims. You can't sweep that fact under the carpet.
Jagger
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 7 2006, 01:38 PM)
It seems anti-Jewish caricatures appear daily in arab newspapers across the Middle East.  Even if these papers do not target the prophets deliberately, Abraham, the prophets, Jesus etc. were all Jews. How do Muslims reconcile their supposed great respect for the Jewish origins of their religion with their 'anti-Semitism'?
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I fail to see how Arabs can be "anti-Semitic" when they themselves are more Semitic than the Israeli Jews (who have been Europeanized). Arabs are not anti-Semitic, they are anti-Jew.

Arabs also don't consider Islam to have "Jewish origin". Arabs consider themselves to be the children of Abraham via Jacob, while Jews consider themselves the children of Abraham via Isaac. Whether or not this story is true, Arabs and Jews both have similar origins. The conflict between them is not due to race but due to religion.

Can you provide some evidence that Arabs have insulted Abraham, Jesus, etc.? I really doubt they did, since that would be blasphemous against Islam.
tangawizi
Jagger, anti-semitism and anti-jew are the same thing. Anti-semitism is defined as

QUOTE
Dictionary.com

2 entries found for anti-Semitism
an·ti-Sem·i·tism (nt-sm-tzm, nt-)
n.

  1. Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.
  2. Discrimination against Jews.


Yes, you have a point that muslims do not consider that Islam has Jewish origins, although in the early years of Islam, the Prophet did ask muslims to pray towards Jerusalem but changed his mind to Mecca when he realised the Jews were not prepared to surrender to Islam. The Jewish origins of Islam comes from the fact that Arabs consider themselves to be children of Abraham via Jacob, and Abraham was a Jew. There is no insult to Abraham or Jesus, but everytime anti-Jew statement or caricature is made, an objective bystander would infer that that statement or caricature applies to all Jews, including Abraham or Jesus, for that matter..
Lint
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 7 2006, 11:28 PM)
Hmmmm.... I have read similar distasteful comments made by the former political leader of Malaysia.  He is well known for his anti-semitic views. That said, I know not everyone would subscribe to his views and he can take responsibility for those views himself.  But anti-semitic views are found in SEA muslims.  You can't sweep that fact under the carpet.
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There are anti-semitic views all over the world. I only know of only one recent world leader who has been foolish(?) enough to voice them. I certainly woudn't want to be responsible for my outgoing leader's misdemeanours. Thats like calling all americans filthy adulterers because Bill Clinton 'did not have sexual relations with that woman'
forrestcat
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 8 2006, 03:51 AM)
Jagger,  anti-semitism and anti-jew are the same thing.  Anti-semitism is defined as
Yes, you have a point that muslims do not consider that Islam has Jewish origins, although in the early years of Islam, the Prophet did ask muslims to pray towards Jerusalem but changed his mind to Mecca when he realised the Jews were not prepared to surrender to Islam. The Jewish origins of Islam comes from the fact that Arabs consider themselves to be children of Abraham via Jacob, and Abraham was a Jew.  There is no insult to Abraham or Jesus, but everytime anti-Jew statement or caricature is made, an objective bystander would infer that that statement or caricature applies to all Jews, including Abraham or Jesus, for that matter..
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Please show proof of these cartoons, i ave seen some anti-israeli cartoons but usually they draw rude paintings of Ariel Sharon and their leaders, not particularly against Jewry. I dun read Arab newspapers so i dunno what they really show. I usually read Al-Jazeera and their caricatures are harmless and ridicule Arab leaders just as much as they ridicule Ariel Sharon.

Most of the hostility among Arabs towards Israel are actually directed againt the Zionists, but not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews...... icon_twisted.gif ..but as usual, the hostility spills over just as u tangawizi might think I am a crazy Jew hater and burn embassies just because some fools in far flung Syria do so and because of 9/11.
tangawizi
Yes, I similarly wasn't aware of arab newspapers daily caricatures until someone here who works in the media pointed that out to me. I admit like you, I don't read the cartoons in arab news, and as an Asian, I would never agree for these distasteful cartoons to be reprinted in the SEA papers thats for sure.

And likewise, I don't care to post any distasteful material on a public forum so I apologise that I can't offer you evidence of anti-jewish caricatures but you may go forth to google it out under 'arab newspapers jewish caricatures'.

I finally do not think u crazy or foolish enough to join the extremists in burning embassies and flags. That is why there will be effective freedom of speech between us because we accept civic responsibilities in our speech. I do not agree with a TOTAL freedom of speech with no civic responsibility in our myraid cultural societies.
Jagger
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Feb 7 2006, 07:51 PM)
Jagger,  anti-semitism and anti-jew are the same thing.  Anti-semitism is defined as
Yes, you have a point that muslims do not consider that Islam has Jewish origins, although in the early years of Islam, the Prophet did ask muslims to pray towards Jerusalem but changed his mind to Mecca when he realised the Jews were not prepared to surrender to Islam. The Jewish origins of Islam comes from the fact that Arabs consider themselves to be children of Abraham via Jacob, and Abraham was a Jew.  There is no insult to Abraham or Jesus, but everytime anti-Jew statement or caricature is made, an objective bystander would infer that that statement or caricature applies to all Jews, including Abraham or Jesus, for that matter..
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I know anti-Semitism usually refers to Jews but I still think its quite silly to say that Arabs are anti-Semitic when they themselves are Semitic.

Abraham isn't considered to be Jewish in Islam, but is considered to be the father of both Arabs and Jews. He was a Semite though, that's for sure. I also made a mistake about Arabs being descended from Jacob (Abraham didn't have a son called Jacob). Arabs were descended from Ishmael (Ismail in Arabic), the elder son of Abraham.

As for the anti-Jew caricatures in Arabic newspapers, I don't think any of them are directed at the prophets of Judaism (that would be blasphemous) but towards the Jewish political leaders, and to modern Jews in general.
tangawizi
Thanks Jagger, for clearing up the historical origins of Abraham and the nature of anti-Jewish caricatures. I juz saw a few samples of these caricatures and I am inclined to agree with you that they are anti-Jewish politically speaking and certainly not blasphemously directed at Jewish prophets.

I'll certainly express this opinion to my media fren. icon_smile.gif
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