http://www.moneynewsasia.com/articleExpand...r_articleID=520

I really don't think so. I think mainland SEA will be in a much better condition than us....

I think nothing is impossible, including the economy. It just really depends on the people, governments and their policies how to attain the goals.

The two countries actually have so much in common, just the history has made one looks like a US state and the other as an Arabic country (even though it's officialy secular).

i dont think so. indonesia as a country is so much more economically stable than the philippines. ranking ng pilipinas ang bangladesh in terms of poverty.

for real. indonesia is more together as a nation than 'pinas.

Say wha?? 2 lol

yes its true. countries like singapore, india, indonesia, and malaysia always had a better economy & domocracy than us. its like bangladeshis are tryin to cross india to get better job prospects, and on the same token.... filipinos are making hanap buhay sa ibang bansa like usa, dubai, ect., because they can make more money there.

it's a pity that we have so many skilled workers yet so few can find good jobs in the phils. They are forced to work overseas to make a good living. I think the gov. should address that issue, they rely too much on ofws.

But then again, if the skilled workers chose to tough it out and work for the Philippines - using their skills in our country - then it would also greatly help the state of things here. I don't think the people of this country should just give up and leave.

I don't really agree with the opinion. The Philippines gained its full-right democracy FAR before Indonesia (we got it in 1998!).. let alone Singapore and Malaysia.

However, the Philippines has somehow missed the momentum, in other words, most people're already tired with the political bickerings. This is the problem.

The other thing I observe is, that Pilipinos always give too much hope in each of the new government to solve the problems almost overnight. This is impossible!

The level of problems that the Philippines and Indonesia face are actually almost on the similar level. But, without any exaggeration, I see the willingness of Indonesians (including its government, of course) to solve the problems, bit by bit. I think this is still missing with the Pilipinos.

If now one talks about the Filipino workforce becoming the country's biggest income source, well, because it's the easiest way to earn money. But, can you imagine what would happen to the country's economy, if all these workers boycott their incomes?? Why is there no diversification of sources?? Philippines is rich in natural resources!!

It's such a big pity, because the Philippines actually has far better infrastructure, education and worldwide connections long before Indonesia..

please dont compare philippines with bangladesh!!!! its a total crap!!!!

in terms of economy, corruption, yes... its more like bangladesh than indonesia. kahit ang entertainment industry sa indonesia malalaking budget. in fact, observe all the korean & chinese shows in 'pinas thats dubbed in tagalog.

our entertainment industry doesnt have enough money to put out its own homemade productions.

on top of all that... ang bansa natin ay talagang mahirap. my cousin is a high school teacher & she only makes a total of $600 a month. thats barely enough to feed her 3 teenage kids at my anak pa ang panganay niya.

i love my country but i dont deny that politics there is a joke.

wtf... dont base the progress of a nation based on the entertainment industry...
masyadong malayo ang pinas compared to bangladesh....
philippine economy like bangladesh, gimme a break....

1998 or 1898?

here's some stats on the philippines
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rp.html

Indonesia got its real democracy only in 1998, although it's been officialy independent since 1945. So, definitely not 1898..

What are you talking about Philippines was the second richest country with the highest standard of living back in the day... no other countries could compare...Phils used to be so rich that we even had South Korea begging us for money

i agree... i was in an outrage upon reading that post by a fellow 'filipino'
comparing our country with bangladesh....
she underestimates our country to much... grrrrrr.....

grabe ka. para ayun lang ay galit ka na. FYI... i have been to dhaka which is the capital of bagladesh & let me tell you... its just as poor, squatter ridden, and full of water, air pollution, and deforestation just like 'pinas. . mas marami pa ngang mga squatter sa maynila. dumidikit nga sa mga condo doon, e.

and as for your 'filipino' comment. yes... i'm 100% from the philippines. perhaps ur meaning to be racist by implying that i might be bumbay based on my sig but i'm not. i just like to watch indian movies, yun lang.

but going back to what i said. i stand by my convictions that manila & dhaka are on the same level of poverty. of all the SEA nations, singapore, malaysia, and indonesia are far ahead in terms of development.

i dont know but you overestimate indonesia too much....
i would rank philippines along side with indonesia but with the advantage
of bigger population and territory... malaysia and thailand are ahead...

back to bangladesh, for god sake.. i said stop comparing
philippines with bangladesh because we are far ahead than
that country... you just cant evaluate progress with the things you see
just like those communist militant assholes who are always rallying
on the streets...
in my part, comparing philippines at par with bangladesh is and insult...


GDP (purchasing power parity): Bangladesh-$299.9 billion (2005 est.), Philippines-$451.3 billion (2005 est.)


GDP (official exchange rate): Bangladesh- $64.85 billion (2005 est.)
Philippines-$90.3 billion (2005 est.)

GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity -
Bangladesh- $2,100 (2005 est.) Philippines-$5,100 (2005 est.)

Exports:
Bangladesh-$12.97 billion (2005 est.) Philippines-$41.25 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.)






can you see the big difference?
i just reacted because i observe many filipinos underestimating
the real situation of the country.. i believe
the situation in the country aint that pitiful as we are seeing in the
media... you see those slums in manila but what you dont is that
most of those people living there have almost complete set
of appliances and wears designer clothes and jeans...
thats the problem, they dont know where to spend their
money properly... thats why i dont believe 40% filipinos living below
poverty line.. are they basing it at the looks of the homes?
those slum pinoys can be more extravagant than the rich...lol

There are many factories here in the Philippines which many countries depend like the Intel Philippines where the Intel Processor Chip is manufactured and it is exported worldwide. Honda Philippines also manufactures motorcycles and exports it in the Southeast Asian Region.

thats not true, you only have a low self-esteem for thinking that..indonesia rupiah is 9,500.00 equals to 1 US dollars, Philippines Peso is 51.00 equals to 1 US dollars..you do the math..we are more on level with Thailand..Thai baht is 39 to 1 US dollar or soemthing...Also in term of democracy, Philippines is topnotch in SEA, which cpuntry in Asia would you think put a college-dropout actor to presidency, and then later, oust him through people power..isnt that democracy..Singapore and Malaysia are more repressed in terms of freedom of expression and press..You better go get a shrink cause you remind me of terribly ignorant people who come and go in this forum...

lol... many squatters in the Philippines even have DVDs and TVs and other appliances...

As an archipelago based on agriculture, I think the Philippines should give more emphasise on both agriculture and fisheries. These two things're pretty much renewable. What if, say, Intel or Honda go bankrupt?

The Philippines used to have famous cigars, for example. Where are they now? So many things can be done in these 2 sectors. Don't forget, Iceland, Norway and several other countries' fishing industry is very big.

Going head to head on IT with India or manufacturing with the rest of Asia is a very risky option, because there are always countries capable of offering cheaper labour cost or other facilities.

Yeah, I do agree with you... The Philippines is along side with Indonesia and far ahead than Bangladesh... Even I have not yet been there, based on pictures of its capital city, Dhaka, still looks unpleasant and not so modern like mopst cities of the Philippines....

What is important is that the Philippines is on the right track now to be one of the best ....

Alam mo ba uyng Encantadia(ewan ko kung naabutan mo yun), 1 million pesos PER SHOOTING ang gastos nila.

You forgot to add those "funky" mobile phones

you mean yung 'Etheria'? yung may mga diwata yun, di ba?

yeah pero aside from that, halos lahat na lang na pinapalabas sa tv ay mga korean, chinese, japanese, and even indian (channel 5) telenovelas all dubbed in tagalog. yung 'Sugo' at 'Etheria' ay magagaling na Pilipino shows pero mas sikat ang 'Jewel of the Palace.' anything chinese & korean is huge in the philippines right now. pati ba naman ang mga taxi sa maynila ay merong anting-anting na feng shui.

nun nandoon ako sa 'pinas addicted ako sa mga telenovalas. lahat kami sa bahay nanunuod... pati ang mga maid kasali. lol!

Nah. Honestly speaking, mas pinaguusapan sa mga schools ang update sa Sugo at Atheria (Encantadia yung nauna). Sa TV lang siguro nanggaling yung perception mo na yun.

Don't worry. Some local soaps and movies are being shown in other SEA countries.

With regards to that "anting-anting" feng shui na sinasabi mo, bago pa sumikat ang F4 sa Pilipinas, sikat na ang Feng Shui sa Pilipinas. YUng bahay ng lolo ko sa Dagupan, pinafeng shui yun at itinayo yun bago ako pinanganak. Sana hindi ka rin magreklamo tungkol sa pagkain ng mga Pinoy ng Pansit, Siopao, Siomai at Lumpia

Besides, I prefer the dubbed telenovelas. Maraming kapuspalad pa rin ang nanonood ng telenovelas. Kung iisipin mo advantage ito sa side nila lalo na sa mga "illiterate".

Yung pagsikat ng Filipino telenovelas ay impact ng pagsikat ng Spanish telenovelas. Don't worry. One time, the Korean craze will fade away, just like what happened to the Mexican telenovela craze kung saan bawat main character ng Mex telenovela ay nagpupunta sa Pilipinas. Just like how the Taiwanese boyband f4 faded. Come to think of it, masmalupit yung craze ng Mexican telenovelas sa mga Pilipinas kesa sa mga Korean/Chinese telenovelas. Nagconcert pa nga dati sa Iloilo si "Fernando Jose". Kumanta pa nga at gumawa ng tagalog album si Thalia just to "please" her pinoy fans

Heeey!! This thread started off in English about the Philippines and Indonesia but ended up in Tagalog and about telenovelas...

Let's get back to the topic! BTW, what were you guys discussing about??

its because a bollywood lover started stating that philippine economy is at level
with that of bangladesh which is very ridiculous... 2
she also based the philippine economy with the budget our pinoy film producers
are spending in their projects... 2

i haven't seen you online on skype anymore, hehehe

skype?? wth?

oh, sorry if that was not you.

it's oke, buddy!

IDIOT, the Philippines has a higher GDP then Indonesia. In fact the Philippines is doing better then Indonesia. Don't compare us to Bangladesh, by your sig. I can tell you would kiss desi @$$ every oppurtunity you can get.

^ ejay, dude... if your gonna create multiple accounts make sure to stick to 1 and keep clean (meaning dont create a new account and still flame people, mods have banned you before so be good this time)



oh yeah, and dont forget cell phones (Mura kasi pag presyong nakaw)

Indonesia a more together nation than Philippines. I dont think so, they too ahve an ongoing civil war especially in the regions of Sumatra and in Papua New Guinea!!!

just forgive the lady, she only knew about what is happening in
Bollywood,,,, 2

Ongoing war in SUMATRA?

Did you follow the news lately?

oh wait that 29 years of civil war ended last year. ALthough there still unrest in locations such as Irian Jaya and Papua New Guinea!!!

LOL, keep your facts straight, jack. Philippines' GDP is less than half of Indonesia's.

Indonesia's GDP = $ 899 billion

Philippines' GDP = $ 451.3 billion

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rp.html



LOL, to call the insignificant insurgency in Aceh (one of 10 provinces in Sumatera, a 2000-km long island) which has surrendered as "civil war" is so exaggerative it is hilarious. To call the province of Papua as scene of "civil war" is crazy as there is basically no violence there for a long time. Even the unarmed separatist sympathisers acknowledged this fact.

Conflicts that are worthy to be called "civil war" are the communist CPP-NPA insurgency (10,000 communist soldiers) and the MILF separatism (12,000 jihadists), plus assortment of other armed groups roaming the Phillippines such as the RPP-ABB, Abu Sayyaf, MNLF, etc. Philippine govt has basically give up control over large swathe of their country to these armed groups.

CPP-NPA website

MILF website

Indonesia is without question more together than civil-war wracked Philippines, where so many people couldn't wait to leave the Filipino nation. For a Filipino to insult Indonesia like you is mind-boggling. It is clear you know nothing about Indonesia.

First off...Philippines is defenitely far better off than Indonesia. Philippines isnt even doing that bad...have you been in the freakin' SM Malls they are AMAZING I lived in Singapore and America and their malls did not even compare to Philippines malls, but I havent visited the PI in 2 years

Philippines is getting there and by the way Philippines does have a higher GDP than Indonesia so dude up there ^ get your facts straight

Wealthiest Countries in Asia
Rank Country GDP per capita(US Dollars)
1 Singapore 27,800
2 Japan 23,400
3 Hong Kong 23,100
4 Macau 17,500
5 Brunei 17,400
6 Taiwan 16,100
7 Korea, South 13,300
8 Malaysia 10,700
9 Thailand 6,400
10 Turkey 6,200
11 Russia 4,200
12 China 3,800
13 Philippines 3,600
14 Kazakhstan 3,200
15 Armenia 2,900
16 Indonesia 2,800


Philippines is much wealthier than Indonesia

^ greenbelt, rockwell, megamall, and shangrila are nice but they certainly cannot compare to the grove or beverly center in LA. those are world class malls.

An economic overview of Indonesia from the CIA World Factbook

Economy - overview:
Indonesia, a vast polyglot nation, has struggled to overcome the Asian financial crisis, and still grapples with high unemployment, a fragile banking sector, endemic corruption, inadequate infrastructure, a poor investment climate, and unequal resource distribution among regions. Indonesia became a net oil importer in 2004 because of declining production and lack of new exploration investment. The cost of subsidizing domestic fuel placed increasing strain on the budget in 2005, and combined with indecisive monetary policy, contributed to a run on the currency in August, prompting the government to enact a 126% average fuel price hike in October. The resulting inflation and interest rate hikes will dampen growth prospects in 2006. Keys to future growth remain internal reform, building up the confidence of international and domestic investors, and strong global economic growth. In late December 2004, the Indian Ocean tsunami took 131,000 lives with another 37,000 missing, left some 570,000 displaced persons, and caused an estimated $4.5 billion in damages and losses. Terrorist incidents in 2005 have slowed tourist arrivals. Indonesia experienced several human cases of avian influenza in late 2005, sparking concerns of a pandemic.
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$899 billion (2005 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate):
$245.3 billion (2005 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:
5.3% (2005 est.)
GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $3,700 (2005 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 15.1% industry: 44.5% services: 40.4% (2005 est.)

An economic overview of the Philippines from the CIA World Factbook

Economy - overview:
The Philippines was less severely affected by the Asian financial crisis of 1998 than its neighbors, aided in part by its high level of annual remittances from overseas workers, and no sustained runup in asset prices or foreign borrowing prior to the crisis. From a 0.6% decline in 1998, GDP expanded by 2.4% in 1999, and 4.4% in 2000, but slowed to 3.2% in 2001 in the context of a global economic slowdown, an export slump, and political and security concerns. GDP growth accelerated to about 5% between 2002 and 2005 reflecting the continued resilience of the service sector, and improved exports and agricultural output. Nonetheless, it will take a higher, sustained growth path to make appreciable progress in the alleviation of poverty given the Philippines' high annual population growth rate and unequal distribution of income. The Philippines also faces higher oil prices, higher interest rates on its dollar borrowings, and higher inflation. Fiscal constraints limit Manila's ability to finance infrastructure and social spending. The Philippines' consistently large budget deficit has produced a high debt level. This has forced Manila to spend a large portion of the national government budget on debt service. Large unprofitable public enterprises, especially in the energy sector, contribute to the government's debt because of slow progress on privatization. Credit rating agencies have expressed concern about the Philippines' ability to service the debt. Legislative progress on new revenue measures will weigh heavily on credit rating decisions.
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$451.3 billion (2005 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate):
$90.3 billion (2005 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:
4.7% (2005 est.)
GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $5,100 (2005 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 14.8% industry: 31.7% services: 53.5% (2005 est.)


So as you can see, Indonesia has a higher overall GDP than the PI but I think that is largely to do with their much greater population (The PI's is 87,857,473 while Indonesia's is 241,973,879). What I find curious though is that the number of Indonesia's population living under the poverty level is 15% and the PI's is 40% BUT the PI's GDP per capita is $5,100 while Indonesia's is only $3,700. Of course this is the PI we're talking about and things don't always make sense like that. Which is why I agree with what was being said earlier in this thread that it's very hard to believe that 40% of filipinos in the PI are living under the poverty line.

You can't compare a nation's overall GDP to see which is richer. Malaysia's GDP for example is only $248 Billion and Singapore's is only $131 Billion. So are you now going to say that Indonesia is also richer than Malaysia and Singapore? As I said in my previous post it's only because Indonesia has a huge population, one of the top 5 most populous countries in the world I think.

Also, comparing the PI's Peso and the Indonesian rupiah exchange rate to the Dollar from a currency conversion site, we get:

1 Dollar = 51.9 PI Pesos

compared to

1 Dollar = 9,259.2 Rupiahs

Yeah I know that but....Philippines is a developing country where the United States is fully developed. The Philippines malls are great for a developing country Im sure that Indonesia or any other developing nation would never have malls like those

Economist: RP economy remains in shambles 20 years after Marcos

MANILA - When Ferdinand Marcos came to power in 1965 he inherited a country whose economy was one of the most buoyant in Southeast Asia. By the time he was thrown out, the Philippines was broke and has been going backwards ever since.

Four decades ago the World Bank saw the archipelago nation of some 7,000 islands as another Japan poised for economic greatness in a region where China remained closed to the outside world and Singapore was still a backwater.

By the time Marcos was ousted in an army-backed People Power revolution in February 1986, the country and its economy was in a shambles.

According to the Asian Development Bank, the Philippines grew by an average of just 3.6 percent annually between 1970 and 2003 — the slowest in Asia among key developing countries.

Leading

“Forty years ago we were one of the leading economies in Asia — today we are nothing,” economist Benjamin Diokno told AFP.

Today, the Philippines is a country marking time as it struggles to meet its massive debt repayments and watches with envy as neighbors grow faster and prosper.

“After Marcos there was a golden opportunity to put things right but they blew it,” said business consultant Peter Wallace, who has lived in the Philippines for more than 30 years. “The same families that prospered under Marcos also prospered in the post-Marcos years — not a lot changed.

“The system stayed, the country continued its slide backwards and corruption spread into every facet of life.”

Last year Berlin-based group Transparency International placed the Philippines 117th alongside Afghanistan, Bolivia, Ecuador, Guatemala, Guyana, Libya, Nepal and Uganda as one of the most corrupt countries on earth.

“In the late 1950s and early 1960s the Philippines was being looked at as the next Japan,” said Diokno, an economist at the University of the Philippines and undersecretary for budget operations in Cora-zon Aquino’s first post-Marcos government.

“We were still getting money from Japan for war reparations, our mining and agricultural sectors were booming and we were cutting down our forests like there was no tomorrow,” he said.

“It was a period of very high growth and by the time Marcos was elected in 1965 we were growing by seven to eight percent a year.”

Initially Marcos did a very good job but by the time his second term came around the rot had started to set in and his business cronies were taking all they could get. Then the (1973) oil crisis hit.

“Debts started to mount, especially among his most trusted business associates. By the time Marcos left, the country was broke and we inherited a mountain of debt which has been accumulating ever since,” he added.

Debt payment

Over the last six years, a large part of government revenue went into paying debt at the expense of much needed services. For every P100 earned by the government some P47 is now spent on debt interest payments.

Spending on education has dropped from 3.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 1999 to 2.4 percent in 2005, while spending on health has fallen from 0.5 percent to 0.19 percent over the same period, with infrastructure down from 1.8 percent to 0.73 percent.

Wallace said per capita income in 1971 was $206 in the Philippines — ahead of Thailand, Indonesia and China and just behind South Korea.

“The industrial sector was one of the most vibrant in the region while the country’s education system was among the best in Southeast Asia,” he said. “In 1975 Thailand and the Philippines were roughly comparable. Today, Thailand is streets ahead of the Philippines in nearly all aspects of the economy and development.”

Investment

“(Thailand’s) economy is about twice that of the Philippines; its per capita income is almost three times that of the Philippines and so too are its exports.

Thailand managed to attract $700 million in net foreign direct investment in 2004 while the Philippines could only manage $60 million,” he said.

If the trend continues, Wallace said, the Philippines may even be overtaken by Vietnam on a per capita GDP basis in less than a decade.

Wallace noted that in 1975 Thailand and the Philippines had roughly the same population of about 40 million. Today, with a carefully maintained birth control program, Thailand has 64 million people while the mainly Roman Catholic Philippines has 84 million and all the problems that entails.

”You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that with low growth and a high birth rate the country is struggling to stay afloat,” Wallace said.

Diokno agreed, adding: “That has been the case for the past 20 years. The question today is: where do you start to clean up the mess?”

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2006/...ter.marcos.html

LOL actually there are lots of giant shopping malls in Indonesia, and heaps more are being constructed. In fact, the largest mall in Southeast Asia is located in Jakarta, the Taman Anggrek Mall.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=281592&page=1

Having some shopping malls is nothing to be so arrogant about, as basically shopping malls existed all over the world.

If Indonesia' GDP per capita is slightly lower than Philippines, it is because Indonesia has nearly three times the population of Philippines. Nevertheless, your GDP per capita is just a mirage, as the other forummer pointed out Philippines has 40% poverty rate, more than double Indonesia's poverty rate of 15%. Indonesia's population growth rate is also lower than Philippines. Additionally, Indonesia's economic growth is higher than Philippines.

Your Gini coefficient is extremely high (46.6) compared to Indonesia's low 34.3. This means there is extremely unequal distribution of wealth in the Philippines with the small upper-class holding most the country's wealth while the majority rest of the population are left in poverty, much more unequal than Indonesia. I think this inequality is why the communist insurgency is so alive and well in Philippines while communism has basically died elsewhere. The only other places where communist insurgencies are still alive other than RP are Colombia and Nepal.

About rupiah, the nominal value of a currency is actually not indicative of the currency's strength. In fact, Indonesian rupiah is the best performing Asian currency of 2005 (http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle....14&related=true).

US$ 1 = 117.6 Japanese yen

US$ 1 = 51.67 Philippines peso.

You won't actually say Philippines peso is stronger than Japanese yen, won't you?

I just want to say that the Third Largest mall in the world is located in manila , Philippines..and the second and first largest mall did not come from indonesia

Anyways, i just want to comment on this...




first of all the Yen, unlike Rupiah is an indivisible denomination. Think of it this way, 100 US cents is equals to 1 US dollar, in much the same way that 100 Centavos is equals to 1 Philippine Peso..The Yen on the other hand is counted on the indivisible digits, which means the Yen is what is in Cents in the US..Japan do not follow the Western standard of denomination..so what about the Rupiah? Rupiah is not a indivisible currency like the Cents, Centavos and Yen..did you get it? And even if the Rupiah would be divided into 100, it will still be far from the strong currency of the Philippine Peso..Philippines and Thailand are of the same level not Indonesia..Thailand Baht is equals to 38 to 1 Us dollar. Philippines is 52.

LOL, don't believe every sensationalistic marketing gimmick you hear.

Just browsing in google, I can find four malls in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and Phillipines all claiming to be the largest mall in Southeast Asia. Obviously, such sensationalistic sobriquets are meaningless.



Actually rupiah is an indivisible currency, there is no cents in our currency. The smallest denomination is Rp 100.

About the strength of rupiah, it is clear our currency is much stronger than the Filipino peso:

Rupiah is Asia's best performing currency of this year