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halohalo
Regionalism is still obvious in the phils to this day, which pretty much sux. I see tagalogs looking down at others like cebuanos and vice versa. Describing each other in a negative light, and claiming that they are better than the other. Not to mention that the various languages, while not necessarily a bad thing and reflects the diversity of filipinos, only adds to the problem. So my question is, what are ways to solve this problem?

To begin with, I think that both tagalog and bisaya languages, should be taught in all schools throughout the country. I know that doesnt address the entire problem itself but I think it's a good start.
everfree1604
Well Mindanao is a region, it's also (mostly) muslim. Wouldn't that still cause a problem with "regionalism"? Or am I thinking otherwise that religion doesn't mean much >_>
everfree1604
Well Mindanao is a region, it's also (mostly) muslim. Wouldn't that still cause a problem with "regionalism"? A problem to keep an eye on in uniting the regions.
sango27
QUOTE
I think that both tagalog and bisaya languages, should be taught in all schools throughout the country.


It will still cause a problem. What will the Ilonggos, Pampangueños, Bicolanos, and others will say? Of course they will still complain. It's not always between the Tagalogs and the Visayans even though they dominated the scene.
halohalo
QUOTE (everfree1604 @ Feb 12 2006, 04:01 AM)
Well Mindanao is a region, it's also (mostly) muslim. Wouldn't that still cause a problem with "regionalism"? A problem to keep an eye on in uniting the regions.
*


yeah that's another important issue to be addressed. Muslims have been unfairly treated by the gov. i think, it's no wonder that some filipino muslims become extremists/terrorists. Probably if the gov. started doing something to reform the area and alleviate the poverty of the muslim filipinos there would be less extremists. Also they should have at least muslim politicians in congress etc. to acknowledge the importance of muslim filipinos and make them more accepted, also to reduce the predominant Catholic bias. But the problem is that the Catholic church plays such a big role in the gov. policies, i doubt that the Church would be happy if the gov. really did something to unite both muslim filipinos and catholics. That's why it's really important that the separation of state and religion should be enforced. But the language barrier is still one that i think needs to addressed from the start.

QUOTE
It will still cause a problem. What will the Ilonggos, Pampangueños, Bicolanos, and others will say? Of course they will still complain. It's not always between the Tagalogs and the Visayans even though they dominated the scene.


the subdialects can still be used or even taught, i'm juz suggesting that the tagalog and bisaya (cebuano) languages should be taught in schools coz the regions where those languages are spoken are the most influential and politically/economically powerful in the country, and also coz they are the most widely spoken languages in the Phils. Even in Mindanao, majority of muslim filipinos speak Cebuano. And Tagalog is also one of the most widespread.
Kanlungan
QUOTE (halohalo @ Feb 12 2006, 04:32 PM)
To begin with, I think that both tagalog and bisaya languages, should be taught in all schools throughout the country. I know that doesnt address the entire problem itself but I think it's a good start.
*


Honestly speaking, this isn't a concrete solution. It may be "fair" to the Visayans but don't forget that there are other ethnic groups EQUALLY important to the Bisayas and Tagalogs.
everfree1604
(God, I hate it when my internet lags and I end up double posting -_-;;)

Anyways, I realized a long time ago that why cant we except Muslims into our society? I mean, I used to live in England as I remembered, Hindu's, Sikh's, Muslims, Christians whatever religion you were, you were judged not on your religion but on what type of person you were - and I guess my old research days on Martin Luther King keeps urging me for eqaulity among the people.

Oh and one more thing, wouldn't having a muslim man/woman in the goverment be a good start too? It is for me.
Kanlungan
QUOTE (halohalo @ Feb 12 2006, 05:16 PM)
the subdialects can still be used or even taught, i'm juz suggesting that the tagalog and bisaya (cebuano) languages should be taught in schools coz the regions where those languages are spoken are the most influential and politically/economically powerful in the country, and also coz they are the most widely spoken languages in the Phils. Even in Mindanao, majority of muslim filipinos speak Cebuano. And Tagalog is also one of the most widespread.
*


There isn't much difference. It's still like teaching "Tagalog" in schools, we just added Cebuano. It's like the other ethnic groups are "under" the Tagalogs and Visayans
halohalo
QUOTE (Kanlungan @ Feb 12 2006, 04:35 AM)
There isn't much difference. It's still like teaching "Tagalog" in schools, we just added Cebuano.  It's like the other ethnic groups are "under" the Tagalogs and Visayans
*


Other Visayan languages are similar to Cebuano, my parents are waray and can understand cebuano dialect. As for tagalog, it's important coz it's already been the national language for ages. Adding cebuano is necessary i think coz it acknowledges the emerging power of Cebu region too. Cebu is the leading power in Visaya. These languages should of course not replace the other sub-dialects but they should be used to strengthen filipino unity. The other subdialects can be taught too but most importantly, those 2 should be ones which needs to be used as the national languages. What we have now is tagalog but only represents the North. Central and Southern Philippines prefer Visayan dialect. And thus, Cebuano should be included.

QUOTE
Honestly speaking, this isn't a concrete solution. It may be "fair" to the Visayans but don't forget that there are other ethnic groups EQUALLY important to the Bisayas and Tagalogs.


i ddnt say that this is the solution to all the regionalism problems. The second majority of filipinos are Visayans. Ilocanos, Pampangenos, etc. are of course
equally important but in terms of majority speakers, they are not that many compared to Visayans and Tagalogs. Besides, like i said b4, those 2 regions where it's widely spoken are the leading powers in Phils. It won't solve the regionalism issue entirely, but it's a start.
Kanlungan
The native languages in the Philippines are very much alike with each other. An example is Ibaloi and Paggalatoc, they are pretty much similar but most likely very different from Tagalog. Tagalog doesn't represent the entire north. Ilocano has different variants too. It most likely represents Katagalugan.
This would NOT still solve the regionalism. Maybe, we should have a national language that is NEITHER based on any native languages. By that, it would be fair. No more Tagalog or Visayan superiority.

How about the Ilocanos, Campampangans. Not all of them too are fluent in Tagalog. I have a classmate from Ilocos who admitted that at first she was harden up with Tagalog.

The Indonesians did base their national language from Malay though Javanese was very much widely spoken(If I'm not mistaken).
Najjiah
if it were up to me, id make ilonggo, cebuano, or tausug (even better) the national language as it has more malay words in it. tagalog is more polynesian sounding, if u ask me.

pero ang national language natin ay tagalog. this is the reality. we should accept it, honor it, and use it frequently when conversing with our fellow kababayans. kinakailangang palagi tayong lahat ay nagsasalita ng ating sariling wika.

tagalog sounds SO freakin BEAUTIFUL when spoken in a very malalim way. like the very engaging tagalog dialogues in Jewel of the Palace (its a korean show but ever so wonderfully dubbed in beautiful Tagalog). hanggang ngayon ay sabik na sabik ako sa kasaysayan ni lady hahn at si jung yu.

sorry, i got off track there. lol! so my vote goes for only one national language and thats tagalog.
halohalo
QUOTE (Kanlungan @ Feb 12 2006, 04:57 AM)
The native languages in the Philippines are very much alike with each other. An example is Ibaloi and Paggalatoc, they are pretty much similar but most likely very different from Tagalog. Tagalog doesn't represent the entire north. Ilocano has different variants too. It most likely represents Katagalugan.
This would NOT still solve the regionalism. Maybe, we should have a national language that is NEITHER based on any native languages. By that, it would be fair. No more Tagalog or Visayan superiority.

How about the Ilocanos, Campampangans. Not all of them too are fluent in Tagalog. I have a classmate from Ilocos who admitted that at first she was harden up with Tagalog.

The Indonesians did base their national language from Malay though Javanese was very much widely spoken(If I'm not mistaken).
*


english wont do much for filipino unity, we should use something that is one of our own at least. I juz used tagalog and visayan languages as they are the most numerous in the phils and have the most influential power. But if others dont think so, well what other language can we come up with? What i do think is that we need a common language/s to unite us all and represents the WHOLE of Philippines: North, Central, and South. And that doesnt mean we have to do away with the other sub-dialects. If u guys can come up with something better then suggest it. This is all about ways to resolve the regionalism problem.
Kanlungan
^I wasn't and would not suggest english as the "unifying" language. It would be a horror. One day, you'll know there are more foreign students studying in local Universities than Filipinos studying in local Universities. There's nothing wrong with teaching bisaya, but teaching it in the entire country would be confusing. Maybe, it's better to teach formal Visayan in the Visayan-speaking areas. I mean, there are confusing words. Similar words but they mean the opposite. Just like "Wala" in panggalatoc.

I must agree that proper Tagalog sounds cute. It just reminds mo og Sponge Cola songs. They write their Tagalog songs beautifully
halohalo
QUOTE (Kanlungan @ Feb 12 2006, 05:30 AM)
^I wasn't and would not suggest english as the "unifying" language. It would be a horror. One day, you'll know there are more foreign students studying in local Universities than Filipinos studying in local Universities. There's nothing wrong with teaching bisaya, but teaching it in the entire country would be confusing. Maybe, it's better to teach formal Visayan in the Visayan-speaking areas. I mean, there are confusing words. Similar words  but they mean the opposite. Just like "Wala" in panggalatoc.

I must agree that proper Tagalog sounds cute. It just reminds mo og Sponge Cola songs. They write their Tagalog songs beautifully
*


well thats a relief embarassedlaugh.gif sorry i quickly jumped to conclusions. Probably coz of all the debates about english being implemented in the other thread. I dont know what other language/s that we can use though to create filipino unity and represents the whole philippines. And btw, language isnt the only one that should be discussed here. There's much more than that. I know that regionalism is still predominant coz b4 the Spaniards came, there was no Philippines. It was juz a group of islands and the ppl ddnt have a common identity. It was, ironically, thanx to the Spaniards who united us as a people. However, it's still not strong enough compared to Indonesians, Cambodians, Malaysians. That's why we should find more ways to address this issue.
everfree1604
Too bad Spongecola can't "deliver". Anyways on with the topic.
Kanlungan
I think the main problem started during the Spanish era. Yknow, the divide and conquer rule. They'd use the Tagalogs and Campampangans against other ethnic groups. This may sound a very general suggestion, but I think acceptance is the key. I don't mind having a homogeneos or cohesive culture, what matters most is the mutual acceptance between the different ethnic groups.

Sounds idealistic.
halohalo
QUOTE
At the time, the Philippines was seen by many as a model of what its partners in ASEAN might become. It had a strong economy, a well educated English-speaking workforce, strong technical and managerial classes and an apparently thriving industrial sector. Within the Southeast Asian region it was favoured by foreign investors. Moreover, it was a parliamentary democracy with a vigorous press and a strong civil society, again pointing to what the rest of ASEAN might become. In 1994, just two and a half decades later, the Philippines economy has only slowly restarted after nearly a decade of regression. The Philippines has been left behind by its ASEAN neighbours. It now has a lower per capita income and has been shunned by foreign investors who have poured money into other countries in the region. For more than ten years the Philippines has experienced enormous social and political instability, including a civil war in the south and private armies almost everywhere else. If one characteristic of contemporary ASEAN countries is the presence of a strong state and a weak civil society then the Philippines is the major exception. It has a weak state and a fragmented society.

The absence of Hindu and Buddhist influences meant that sophisticated concepts of the State and cosmologies which linked the temporal and the spiritual realms were lacking in the pre-colonial Philippines. There were no pre-colonial state structures, socially integrating ideologies or ‘great traditions’.

One important consequence is that contemporary Filipinos lack a concrete pre-colonial history from which they can draw inspiration and create national myths. There is nothing in the Philippines’ past remotely comparable to the ‘golden eras’ of Angkor in Cambodia, Pagan in Burma or Majapahit in Indonesia. There is only a pattern of regionalism under the control of local trading families and kinship networks.

before the arrival of the Spanish in the mid-16th century. The islands were sparsely populated with largely kinship and village based political organisation.

The great families still dominate the Philippines. Despite Aquino’s promise of land reform the interests of the landed elite have prevailed. Land reform has been negligible. Political loyalties remain personal rather than institutional. Electoral success continues to depend on wealthy people funding corruption, nepotism and bribery. The state remains relatively weak, as compared to many of the neighbouring ASEAN countries.

Much depends on whether Muslims in the south can be persuaded to feel part of the Philippines which, in turn, depends on central concessions to regional, cultural and religious differences as much as continued economic growth.


http://www.aseanfocus.com/publications/his...hilippines.html
halohalo
QUOTE (Kanlungan @ Feb 12 2006, 05:50 AM)
I think the main problem started during the Spanish era. Yknow, the divide and conquer rule. They'd use the Tagalogs and Campampangans against other ethnic groups. This may sound a very general suggestion, but I think acceptance is the key. I don't mind having a homogeneos or cohesive culture, what matters most is the mutual acceptance between the different ethnic groups.

Sounds idealistic.
*


mutual acceptance, yes definitely. But unfortunately, this isnt the case. Filipinos still regard other filipinos from diff. regions with an 'us against them' mentality. Mutual acceptance between ethnic groups is the ideal but we need to be more realistic here. For many centuries we are still suffering from this mentality, as well as colonial mentality. We need practical ways to resolve this issue, coz i think that's one of the things that's hindering our progress to be a successful, united country.
sango27
QUOTE
There's nothing wrong with teaching bisaya, but teaching it in the entire country would be confusing. Maybe, it's better to teach formal Visayan in the Visayan-speaking areas. I mean, there are confusing words.


I agree with that. If we will study a Filipino language w/c will be used to communicate among all Filipinos, I think we must only study one language. That's Tagalog. That's why there's a national language -- to be used in communication and AVOID confusion. If we'll study Tagalog and Visayan and use them at the same time, isn't it will be confusing? And what's the importance of studying TWO FILIPINO languages? If the Tagalog people know how to speak Visayan language, why will the Visayan people still study Tagalog language? They can still understand each other.


QUOTE
tagalog sounds SO freakin BEAUTIFUL when spoken in a very malalim way.


Agree. When one speak in pure, as in pure and deep Tagalog, it's like this person sings beautifully. Like in Florante at Laura: hard to understand but if you perceive its meaning, you can conclude that it's romantically full of meaning. That's why i really love Tagalog and making poems in this language w/c have words in deep Tagalog. When read at first time and without comprehension, one will say it's nonsense, but if comprehended and fully perceived... it'll turn into an obra maestra... (nice!)
EyEsTrAiN
Look at our former colonizer SPAIN, Spain was one poorest country in europe after they practically lost their empire. They had a Civil War, regionalism( Now Spain is made of 17 Autonomous Region), terrorist act(ETA), corruption(they make our politicians look like Amateurs) and now look what they did in 35 years(economically). Spain has 17 autonomous regions, each with its own parliament, president, government, administration and Supreme Court (plus its own flag and capital city)

Manila = Madrid (castellano)
Cebu = Barcelona (catalan)


Anyway, i don't believe Tagalog is the National Language of the Philippines cos the Philippines is in fact a Nation of many nations. It's not regionalism. It is nationalism. Ilocano, Cebuano, Ilongo, Bicolano, Waray, Pampango, Pangasinense, Maguindanaon nations.

BUT, yea Tagalog(filipino) is an OFFICIAL Language. thumbsdown.gif
Anakaleki
Maybe if there was some kind of threat to the country where all Filipinos are forced to unite to fight against it. Like those alien movies where the whole human race has to join together whether they like it or not. Of course that's just creating another level of "us against them" and dosen't solve the root problem of selfishness and conceit.
Najjiah
QUOTE (halohalo @ Feb 12 2006, 03:20 AM)
mutual acceptance, yes definitely. But unfortunately, this isnt the case. Filipinos still regard other filipinos from diff. regions with an 'us against them' mentality. Mutual acceptance between ethnic groups is the ideal but we need to be more realistic here. For many centuries we are still suffering from this mentality, as well as colonial mentality. We need practical ways to resolve this issue, coz i think that's one of the things that's hindering our progress to be a successful, united country.
*

pero hindi ba thats from the older generation? ang mga pinoy na lumaki sa mga ibang bansa ay walang ugaling ganito. and furthermore, i think before we teach our kids respect for each other, we need to elect good politicians to run our country. at hindi agad mag bigay ng tiwala. they have screwed us over before. they might do it again.
Najjiah
QUOTE (sango27 @ Feb 12 2006, 04:17 AM)
I agree with that. If we will study a Filipino language w/c will be used to communicate among all Filipinos, I think we must only study one language. That's Tagalog. That's why there's a national language -- to be used in communication and AVOID confusion. If we'll study Tagalog and Visayan and use them at the same time, isn't it will be confusing? And what's the importance of studying TWO FILIPINO languages? If the Tagalog people know how to speak Visayan language, why will the Visayan people still study Tagalog language? They can still understand each other.
Agree. When one speak in pure, as in pure and deep Tagalog, it's like this person sings beautifully. Like in Florante at Laura: hard to understand but if you perceive its meaning, you can conclude that it's romantically full of meaning. That's why i really love Tagalog and making poems in this language w/c have words in deep Tagalog. When read at first time and without comprehension, one will say it's nonsense, but if comprehended and fully perceived... it'll turn into an obra maestra... (nice!)
*
i LOVE Florante at Laura! oh man.... i need a refresher course in Pilipino history.

but seriously... tagalog spoken like a first class news announcer sounds hypnotic. hindi yung mga announcer sa TV Patrol, ha? and for those like us thats been exposed to too much western media (mga Fil-Am.... marinig kayo!), we can greatly benefit from learning how to artiuculate ourselves in what i percieve to be the most lyrical & diverse malay language around... and to me THAT is Tagalog.

biggthumpup.gif
kermit_criminal
QUOTE (everfree1604 @ Feb 12 2006, 04:30 AM)
(God, I hate it when my internet lags and I end up double posting -_-;;)

Anyways, I realized a long time ago that why cant we except Muslims into our society? I mean, I used to live in England as I remembered, Hindu's, Sikh's, Muslims, Christians whatever religion you were, you were judged not on your religion but on what type of person you were - and I guess my old research days on Martin Luther King keeps urging me for eqaulity among the people.

Oh and one more thing, wouldn't having a muslim man/woman in the goverment be a good start too? It is for me.
*


that cannot happen with the catholic church ruling the country however
kermit_criminal
how does japan deal with this? isnt hokkaido, honshu, and the other major islands connected by bridges? im not sure
RL33
QUOTE (EyEsTrAiN @ Feb 12 2006, 04:22 AM)
Look at our former colonizer SPAIN, Spain was one poorest country in europe after they practically lost their empire. They had a Civil War, regionalism( Now Spain is made of 17  Autonomous Region), terrorist act(ETA), corruption(they make our politicians look like Amateurs) and now look what they did in 35 years(economically).  Spain has 17 autonomous regions, each with its own parliament, president, government, administration and Supreme Court (plus its own flag and capital city)

Manila = Madrid (castellano)
Cebu = Barcelona (catalan)
Anyway, i don't believe Tagalog is the National Language of the Philippines cos the Philippines is in fact a Nation of many nations. It's not regionalism. It is nationalism. Ilocano, Cebuano, Ilongo, Bicolano, Waray, Pampango, Pangasinense, Maguindanaon nations.

BUT, yea Tagalog(filipino) is an OFFICIAL Language.  thumbsdown.gif
*


Mindanao = Basque region, Espana has its own problems with seperatists.

Id have to grudgingly agree that Tagalog has to be taught it schools(english can help too ) but the different regions must also teach the local "LANGUAGE". In that we can have a common language to communicate with band at the same time celebrate our diversity,

I also agree that Tagalog sound really nice when spoken properly to me its like thier singing sometimes biggthumpup.gif.
EyEsTrAiN
To me, i don't think there is Pinoy pride. If filipinos want unity and peace, why don't they live in other part of the country(region+province)? sure.gif confused.gif


A filipino- American or Fil-[insert country] who went back for the first time or never been to Philippines at all suddenly becomes regionalistic( i hate tagalogs, cebuanos, ilocanos, and etc)
sango27
QUOTE
To me, i don't think there is Pinoy pride.


Is it ethnic pride? Tagalogs are proud to be tagalogs, visayans are proud to be visayans. But the problem is they talk about each other in a negative light... they look down at each other...

I think Pinoy pride is ethnic pride in disguise. do you get it? You're proud to be a tagalog that's why you can say that you're proud to be a Filipino... but you hate visayans... and vice versa...
halohalo
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Feb 12 2006, 12:14 PM)
pero hindi ba thats from the older generation?  ang mga pinoy na lumaki sa mga ibang bansa ay walang ugaling ganito.  and furthermore, i think before we teach our kids respect for each other, we need to elect good politicians to run our country. at hindi agad mag bigay ng tiwala. they have screwed us over before.  they might do it again.
*


that's not quite true. Those filipinos do acknowledge their filipino side for the most part, but they tend to identify more with their particular region. Which is understandable i guess, but how is that going to strengthen filipino unity if one group looks at the other as being diff. I've noticed it even with ppl overseas, they still carry that mentality. Tagalogs stick with each other, Bisayans stick with each other, and their regionalistic views are carried over to the young ones. It's a shame when some filipinos still dont understand each other, they weren't taught tagalog coz they think that it's biased coz it only represents the North, whereas majority of ppl from central and southern phils speaks bisaya, and confirms to some ppl that Tagalogs are more superior etc. than the other ethnicities. Ilocanos, Pamapangenos, etc. are at least more accepted by Tagalogs, but Visayans and ppl from Mindanao still tend to be discriminated.
forcespike437
QUOTE (halohalo @ Feb 12 2006, 01:32 AM)
Regionalism is still obvious in the phils to this day, which pretty much sux. I see tagalogs looking down at others like cebuanos and vice versa. Describing each other in a negative light, and claiming that they are better than the other. Not to mention that the various languages, while not necessarily a bad thing and reflects the diversity of filipinos, only adds to the problem. So my question is, what are ways to solve this problem?

To begin with, I think that both tagalog and bisaya languages, should be taught in all schools throughout the country. I know that doesnt address the entire problem itself but I think it's a good start.
*


interesting thread...im ilocano and im pretty sure most of the people in northern luzon(ilocos sur,ilocos norte,cagayan,isabela,la union,abra, about half of pangasinan,kalinga,apayao,part of tarlac and other provinces in the north) know ilocano..about tagalog and bisaya being taught in schools around the country, what about the other dialects??you yourself said that regionalism is dividing the philippines yet you are promoting your own dialect(which i assume is bisaya since u said ur parent r from the visayas)...the concept is to get unite filipinos, so why teach them 2 languages??and the biggest problem with this idea is........MONEY...if the philippine government cant even afford to teach students the basics efficiently, how do u expect it to have funds for other activities or curriculums??
halohalo
QUOTE (forcespike437 @ Feb 12 2006, 08:10 PM)
interesting thread...im ilocano and im pretty sure most of the people in northern luzon(ilocos sur,ilocos norte,cagayan,isabela,la union,abra, about half of pangasinan,kalinga,apayao,part of tarlac and other provinces in the north) know ilocano..about tagalog and bisaya being taught in schools around the country, what about the other dialects??you yourself said that regionalism is dividing the philippines yet you are promoting your own dialect(which i assume is bisaya since u said ur parent r from the visayas).
*


i mentioned bisaya bcoz it is the most widely spoken language in the phils, even surpassing tagalog. I am from Visayas, but im not cebuano and i dont speak bisaya, i speak tagalog and my parents language is not bisaya but waray. I don't suggest waray should be taught at schools coz there are only a minority of speakers compared to cebuano dialect, and they are not the most influential as a group in the country. So u can't say I'm promoting my own.

QUOTE
the concept is to get unite filipinos, so why teach them 2 languages??


I'm juz trying to find ways to make concessions on both sides. It juz seems rather of a disadvantage that most speakers in phils speak bisaya, in both visayas and mindanao and only tagalog is spoken mostly in the North and yet it's supposed to be the National language. I'm all for one language only and I don't mind Tagalog, heck i only speak Tagalog, i cant speak any Visayan language either. But I think that the national language should represent the whole of phils and not only in Luzon.

QUOTE
the biggest problem with this idea is........MONEY...if the philippine government cant even afford to teach students the basics efficiently, how do u expect it to have funds for other activities or curriculums??


yeah, that's one of the problems that the phils is facing. My one was only a suggestion, it's not something that i expect to see happening anytime soon. But i still think, if ever we do get enough funds, that that's something that we should consider. Anyways, anyone else suggest ways on how to strengthen filipino unity? The suggestion of building bridges to make the regions more accessible to filipinos from diff. areas is quite a good idea.
forcespike437
QUOTE
i mentioned bisaya bcoz it is the most widely spoken language in the phils, even surpassing tagalog. I am from Visayas, but im not cebuano and i dont speak bisaya, i speak tagalog and my parents language is not bisaya but waray. I don't suggest waray should be taught at schools coz there are only a minority of speakers compared to cebuano dialect, and they are not the most influential as a group in the country. So u can't say I'm promoting my own.


ok my bad on that one...i guess i was just trying to tick you off a little...i apologize for that...u have a point there but i think its better the way it is now...you're right that bisaya is spoken in the visayas and mindanao, but more people know tagalog than bisaya...most of the people in the philippines can understand tagalog while only the people from the visayas and mindanao understand bisaya...

QUOTE
I'm juz trying to find ways to make concessions on both sides. It juz seems rather of a disadvantage that most speakers in phils speak bisaya, in both visayas and mindanao and only tagalog is spoken mostly in the North and yet it's supposed to be the National language. I'm all for one language only and I don't mind Tagalog, heck i only speak Tagalog, i cant speak any Visayan language either. But I think that the national language should represent the whole of phils and not only in Luzon


creating a new language is the only for that to happen...simply adapting one of the existing dialects in the philippines as the national language will always get the feeling u have now...

QUOTE
yeah, that's one of the problems that the phils is facing. My one was only a suggestion, it's not something that i expect to see happening anytime soon. But i still think, if ever we do get enough funds, that that's something that we should consider. Anyways, anyone else suggest ways on how to strengthen filipino unity? The suggestion of building bridges to make the regions more accessible to filipinos from diff. areas is quite a good idea.


the 2 main reasons filipinos cannot unite are: 1)REGIONALISM 2)CONFLICT OF INTERESTS...in order for the people to unite, they should think of themselves as filipinos first and tagalog,ilocano,bisaya,waray,and other ethnic groups second...if people continue to view themselves as superios to others, then filipinos will never be united...conflict of interests is also dividing filipinos...the government would be the best example of this...they spend more time bickering trying to push their own agendas instead of working together for the better of the country...
martin_nuke
I think tagalog is the ideal national language because it is spoken in the whole Philippine. Chavacanos, Warays, Cebuanos, Ilonggos, Bicolanos, Ilocanos, etc... can speak tagalog.

I think the main problem in the Philippines is that is an archipalago which is very hard to manage and unite. Bridges connecting Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao would solve this problem but the question is "Can it be done?"
sango27
QUOTE
I'm all for one language only and I don't mind Tagalog, heck i only speak Tagalog, i cant speak any Visayan language either. But I think that the national language should represent the whole of phils and not only in Luzon.


creating a new language that will represent the whole philippines as forcespike said is the only solution to your problem... making the visayan language the national language will not even represent the whole Philippines but only the visayas and mindanao...

and why not tagalog?? just because visayan language surpassed the tagalog in terms of its speakers? but here's reality that THE FILIPINO BASED ON TAGALOG IS THE NATIONAL LANGUAGE OF THE PHILIPPINES. According to the research conducted in the time of Manuel Quezon, the Tagalog is the richest language of the Philippines. That's why he made it the basis for the national language Filipino.

PS And hey, don't list visayan terms to say that visayan is the richest language in the Philippines because it is Tagalog ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCHERS CONDUCTED BY PRES. MANUEL QUEZON... It can't do anything...
halohalo
QUOTE (sango27 @ Feb 13 2006, 03:57 AM)
creating a new language that will represent the whole philippines as forcespike said is the only solution to your problem... making the visayan language the national language will not even represent the whole Philippines but only the visayas and mindanao...

and why not tagalog?? just because visayan language surpassed the tagalog in terms of its speakers? but here's reality that THE FILIPINO BASED ON TAGALOG IS THE NATIONAL LANGUAGE OF THE PHILIPPINES. According to the research conducted in the time of Manuel Quezon, the Tagalog is the richest language of the Philippines. That's why he made it the basis for the national language Filipino.

PS    And hey, don't list visayan terms to say that visayan is the richest language in the Philippines because it is Tagalog ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCHERS CONDUCTED BY PRES. MANUEL QUEZON... It can't do anything...
*


u guys seem to have misread what i was actually trying to say. I said that we should have two official languages. From what i can remember, English is considered to be the second official language of the phils. So basically, there are two anyways to begin with. why not replace english instead with bisaya. I never said to replace tagalog, it is important to still learn that language but since bisaya speakers feel like their language is equally as important as tagalog then why not use both as national languages, to satisfy both sides. Tagalogs and Bisayas are the most widespread languages, both are spoken in major influential cities like manila and cebu city, they should be in harmony yet instead they're rivals.
All the languages in the phils are equally rich, whatever ur trying to say, not one is better than the other. That research was done in Manuel Quezon's time and is outdated.

I agree with the others, the mentality of filipinos looking down at others from diff. regions has to go. Education and cultural awareness/understanding of the other ethnicities in the phils is the way to go.
bisaya
QUOTE (everfree1604 @ Feb 12 2006, 04:56 PM)
Well Mindanao is a region, it's also (mostly) muslim. Wouldn't that still cause a problem with "regionalism"? Or am I thinking otherwise that religion doesn't mean much >_>


mindanao is a very big land and muslims are not the majority. maybe you are talking about "muslim mindanao" it's now called "Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao" (ARMM). Eastern mindanao (davao, bukidnon and surigao) had been a land of the lumads and the non-muslims. while zamboanga is a stronghold of christianity in western mindanao. but there are also many muslims in zamboanga.


QUOTE (halohalo @ Feb 12 2006, 05:16 PM)
yeah that's another important issue to be addressed. Muslims have been unfairly treated by the gov. i think, it's no wonder that some filipino muslims become extremists/terrorists. Probably if the gov. started doing something to reform the area and alleviate the poverty of the muslim filipinos there would be less extremists. Also they should have at least muslim politicians in congress etc. to acknowledge the importance of muslim filipinos and make them more accepted, also to reduce the predominant Catholic bias. But the problem is that the Catholic church plays such a big role in the gov. policies, i doubt that the Church would be happy if the gov. really did something to unite both muslim filipinos and catholics. That's why it's really important that the separation of state and religion should be enforced. But the language barrier is still one that i think needs to addressed from the start.
the subdialects can still be used or even taught, i'm juz suggesting that the tagalog and bisaya (cebuano) languages should be taught in schools coz the regions where those languages are spoken are the most influential and politically/economically powerful in the country, and also coz they are the most widely spoken languages in the Phils. Even in Mindanao, majority of muslim filipinos speak Cebuano. And Tagalog is also one of the most widespread.
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do not single out the muslims because we too the visayans and mindanaoans are having the same problem but the only difference is our people knows how to protest using peaceful means till the message is heard. it's very different from what some muslims are trying to do in mindanao. to attach it to religion is a big mistake because it's not religion that is the issue here. it's greed and corruption of many of our politicians. you can even look at muslim mindanao. the sultan of ARMM even have huge hectares of land. they even live in nice mansions while their very own people (most are muslims) are poor.

the bisayan speaking people are actually the majority that is why i don't see anything wrong with making it part of the "official language" of the country. but making it a part of the filipino language subject in school won't be as important as making our literatures, arts, poetry, myths, legends and oral traditions... etc as part of the "filipino "subjects in school. this is what will make us feel that we are indeed part of this nation. stop the monopoly of tagalog in our school system. no more tagalog monopoly on our filipino subjects. and hope every "linggo ng wika" will be a celebration of our filipino languages whatever that may be. be it waray, cebuano, hiligaynon, bicolano, ilokano etc... and for some groups of people to stop creating divisions by degrading the other ethnic group.
halohalo
I agree, and we shouldnt juz focus on the language. There's plenty of other things that we can do to strengthen the unity of the ppl. Language is only a part of that, not the whole thing itself. This lack of filo unity is sometimes why i see filos being confused about their own identities. I ddnt mean to create a debate here about national languages, this is about strengthening our unity but it looks like this whole regionalism is once again acting up. We are Filipinos first and foremost, we are more alike than different, let's not let language barriers get in the way of our unity. My suggestion was not meant to flame anyone, both to visayans or tagalogs, ilocanos etc. I dont consider one as being better than the other, if u read my posts carefully, i was juz trying to say that we should make concessions on both sides. It juz gets to me whenever i see another filipino not being able to communicate with the other coz of language barrier, then have to resort to english coz of this. Yes, i have actually seen this happen. Why should english be the only way to be able to understand each other, in China, there's lots of diff. dialects and ethnicities too but everyone there seems to be more united than we are. Why cant filos be the same?
bisaya
QUOTE (sango27 @ Feb 12 2006, 08:17 PM)
I agree with that. If we will study a Filipino language w/c will be used to communicate among all Filipinos, I think we must only study one language. That's Tagalog. That's why there's a national language -- to be used in communication and AVOID confusion. If we'll study Tagalog and Visayan and use them at the same time, isn't it will be confusing? And what's the importance of studying TWO FILIPINO languages? If the Tagalog people know how to speak Visayan language, why will the Visayan people still study Tagalog language? They can still understand each other.
Agree. When one speak in pure, as in pure and deep Tagalog, it's like this person sings beautifully. Like in Florante at Laura: hard to understand but if you perceive its meaning, you can conclude that it's romantically full of meaning. That's why i really love Tagalog and making poems in this language w/c have words in deep Tagalog. When read at first time and without comprehension, one will say it's nonsense, but if comprehended and fully perceived... it'll turn into an obra maestra... (nice!)



if we only need one language to avoid confusion then why not dump english. let's not teach english in school. i hate to think that tagalogs are just simply dumb. that is why they can't speak as many language as the visayans so let's just do it for them. we'll learn their language because they're too dumb they would end up confused. TWO FILIPINO language?!? you mean there's only ONE FILIPINO language?!? and that is TAGALOG?!? now, we hear it from a tagalog, the visayans and the mindanaoans are not FILIPINO. they never consider us FILIPINO. just like the spaniards who conquered us, we are just one of those dumb indios. now, you know how they think. they (the tagalogs) measure ones patriotism and being cultured by how tagalog we become. no wonder they never talk about the visayans and mindanaoans in many filipino subjects. they probably think bisayans are dumb and barbarians.


QUOTE (Najjiah @ Feb 13 2006, 01:24 AM)
i LOVE Florante at Laura! oh man.... i need a refresher course in Pilipino history.

but seriously... tagalog spoken like a first class news announcer sounds hypnotic. hindi yung mga announcer sa TV Patrol, ha?  and for those like us thats been exposed to too much western media (mga Fil-Am.... marinig kayo!), we can greatly benefit from learning how to artiuculate ourselves in what i percieve to be the most lyrical & diverse malay language around... and to me THAT is Tagalog.  biggthumpup.gif


our visayan languages are lyrical and romantic too. may kasingkasing ug kinabuhi. in fact when we heard the balagtas balagtasan thing we think it sounds corny and overacting. we don't even find it interesting but how can we refuse when we are force to do so because it is part of the school curriculum. this is just a personal opinion from non-tagalogs who find tagalog weird and the feeling of finding them as "nagpipilit maging sosyal pero nakakatawa naman". this is not meant to insult the tagalog just an honest view from the bisayans.
halohalo
QUOTE (bisaya @ Feb 13 2006, 05:18 AM)
if we only need one language to avoid confusion then why not dump english. let's not teach english in school. i hate to think that tagalogs are just simply dumb. that is why they can't speak as many language as the visayans so let's just do it for them. we'll learn their language because they're too dumb they would end up confused. TWO FILIPINO language?!? you mean there's only ONE FILIPINO language?!? and that is TAGALOG?!? now, we hear it from a tagalog, the visayans and the mindanaoans are not FILIPINO. and they think their language are very great and beautiful but we the visayans don't think so. to us, our language has more beautiful.
our visayan languages are lyrical and romantic too. may kasingkasing ug kinabuhi. in fact when we heard the balagtas balagtasan thing we think it sounds corny and overacting. we don't even find it interesting but how can we refuse when we are force to do so because it is part of the school curriculum. this is just a personal opinion from non-tagalogs who find tagalog weird and the feeling of finding them as "nagpipilit maging sosyal pero nakakatawa naman". this is not meant to insult the tagalog just an honest view from the bisayans.
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can we please refrain from flaming each other here. We should respect each other's opinions and discuss it in civil terms. This thread is meant to find ways to strengthen filipino unity and not divide it (again). Dont go off track.
bisaya
halohalo: i respect other people's opinions and i presume people will also respect these opinions. besides i was only responding to a post that i think was a demonstration of tagalog superiority complex and i believe it's only right that i show them the other side of it. i am only sharing my opinion and the facts that i know.
bisaya
QUOTE (sango27 @ Feb 13 2006, 04:57 PM)
creating a new language that will represent the whole philippines as forcespike said is the only solution to your problem... making the visayan language the national language will not even represent the whole Philippines but only the visayas and mindanao...

and why not tagalog?? just because visayan language surpassed the tagalog in terms of its speakers? but here's reality that THE FILIPINO BASED ON TAGALOG IS THE NATIONAL LANGUAGE OF THE PHILIPPINES. According to the research conducted in the time of Manuel Quezon, the Tagalog is the richest language of the Philippines. That's why he made it the basis for the national language Filipino.

PS    And hey, don't list visayan terms to say that visayan is the richest language in the Philippines because it is Tagalog ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCHERS CONDUCTED BY PRES. MANUEL QUEZON... It can't do anything...



who made the research?!? who ordered the research conducted?!? it's PGMA releasing a survey that says she is the #1 citizen of the philippines. embarassedlaugh.gif2

let the french do the research on what language is the most beautiful.. you know the answer... it none other than french. biggrin.gif
bisaya
QUOTE (martin_nuke @ Feb 13 2006, 12:24 PM)
I think tagalog is the ideal national language because it is spoken in the whole Philippine. Chavacanos, Warays, Cebuanos, Ilonggos, Bicolanos, Ilocanos, etc... can speak tagalog.

I think the main problem in the Philippines is that is an archipalago which is very hard to manage and unite. Bridges connecting Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao would solve this problem but the question is "Can it be done?"



FYI, many bisayans can understand some tagalog but don't speak the language. and there are a lot of them in small towns and villages.
Hi Tone
by the way, who here is tagalog? I'm getting the impression we're evil. neartears.gif
forcespike437
QUOTE (halohalo @ Feb 13 2006, 02:40 AM)
u guys seem to have misread what i was actually trying to say. I said that we should have two official languages. From what i can remember, English is considered to be the second official language of the phils. So basically, there are two anyways to begin with. why not replace english instead with bisaya. I never said to replace tagalog, it is important to still learn that language but since bisaya speakers feel like their language is equally as important as tagalog then why not use both as national languages, to satisfy both sides. Tagalogs and Bisayas are the most widespread languages, both are spoken in major influential cities like manila and cebu city, they should be in harmony yet instead they're rivals.
All the languages in the phils are equally rich, whatever ur trying to say, not one is better than the other. That research was done in Manuel Quezon's time and is outdated.

I agree with the others, the mentality of filipinos looking down at others from diff. regions has to go. Education and cultural awareness/understanding of the other ethnicities in the phils is the way to go.
*


i've said this before and i'll say it again...having 2 official languages will divide filipinos even more...and if the government does make bisaya the second official language, how do you think other groups would feel??
bisaya
honestly the bisayans are not demanding that bisayan be made as one of the official language but we are demanding that our schools should include subjects that would include our literatures, poetry, myths, oral traditions, culture...etc.

the one that did cause divisions is the superiority complex of the tagalogs.

first, they told us that we should have a national language and that we would base it on tagalog. they never told us that the reason for that is because they think tagalog is beautiful and blah blah blah... but for the sake of unity we accept it.

then, they told us that since the national language is based on tagalog so we must teach tagalog in school. so there they forced us to learn everything that is tagalog. they teach us tagalog literature, tagalog culture, tagalog poetry and many more tagalog blah blah blah... so again for the sake of unity, the non-tagalog accepts it. we thought there's nothing wrong with learning one more language. so they imposed their language and culture upon us the non-tagalog inhabitants.

then after that, they told us to contribute to the national government as part of one nation we should help in nation building so we gave a big portion of our income to the national government even if we know so little comes back to us because most of the money is spent in very expensive projects that are mostly found in luzon, think about the billions that they spent on Centenial Expo, NAIA terminal 3, Macapagal highway and many more.. but for the sake of unity we tried not to campaign for secession instead we campaign for reform.

but the tagalogs probably feel that the bisayans are just too dumb and just accepted everything without much complain so they tried to go overboard by acting like superior people treating the rest as inferior to them. insulting the bisayans on tv and newpapers and wherever they may be. so there you see, that's were everything begins to become foul.

the bisayans are not afraid to separate from luzon because we know we have the best resources here. we have a beautiful rich land, and great people, there had been many bisayans who are abroad, some are overseas workers, some married foreigners and are now citizens of different countries but they still sends money to their relatives here. but for the sake of unity, we will just wait and see. many are already desperate they want to have a separate republic now because they know the bisayans can survive without luzon. many even thinks that the tagalogs are thinking that the bisayans are stupid and didn't know that they are being fooled by the tagalogs into paying a tribute to them by accepting their langugae and learning about their culture and paying taxes that will be remitted to the national government to finance expensive projects that will be spent for luzon. that is why they want to show the tagalogs that we know what is happening in this country, the discrimination, the injustice, the imbalance... and many more. unity would never be achieve if we have the "tagalog" attitude. the "kami lang ang magaling" attitude. the "we are superior and we will never let anyone impose their culture, their language on us unless it is american or european i.e. spanish, french etc." attitude

the bisayans have already made a lot of compromises for the sake of unity. what have the tagalogs done to foster unity?

do you think the statements below can unite us?!?

QUOTE
creating a new language that will represent the whole philippines as forcespike said is the only solution to your problem... making the visayan language the national language will not even represent the whole Philippines but only the visayas and mindanao...

and why not tagalog?? just because visayan language surpassed the tagalog in terms of its speakers? but here's reality that THE FILIPINO BASED ON TAGALOG IS THE NATIONAL LANGUAGE OF THE PHILIPPINES. According to the research conducted in the time of Manuel Quezon, the Tagalog is the richest language of the Philippines. That's why he made it the basis for the national language Filipino.

PS    And hey, don't list visayan terms to say that visayan is the richest language in the Philippines because it is Tagalog ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCHERS CONDUCTED BY PRES. MANUEL QUEZON... It can't do anything...


that only gives our brothers and sisters who had been campaigning for a separate republic a reason to rally for a worthy cause and that is to seek for a republic where we don't have to be tagalog to be "filipino".
Najjiah
QUOTE (bisaya @ Feb 13 2006, 02:18 AM)
our visayan languages are lyrical and romantic too. may kasingkasing ug kinabuhi. in fact when we heard the balagtas balagtasan thing we think it sounds corny and overacting. we don't even find it interesting but how can we refuse when we are force to do so because it is part of the school curriculum. this is just a personal opinion from non-tagalogs who find tagalog weird and the feeling of finding them as "nagpipilit maging sosyal pero nakakatawa naman". this is not meant to insult the tagalog just an honest view from the bisayans.
*
both my parents are bisaya. thy speak hiligaynon quite fluently. and i can speak it, too.

i KNOW for sure binisaya languages are very malambing sounding & evenb more lyrical. and the added benefit is that 75% of all bisayan languages are rooted in bahasa melayu (which to me is the mother of ALL malay languages).

i do know that bisayan people are stigmatized by the tagalog speaking folks. but we bisayans have plenty to be proud of. ive ran into tagalog people before that love to ridicule bisayan culture, language, ect. but they are very few & far between.

at the end of the day, we are ALL Pinoy. we are and a majority of our people are brown Pilipino Malay. not the pinoy chinese which is widely worshiped & advertised in philippine media. we are brown. no amount of papaya whitening soap can turn a malay looking person into a nortrhern korean or mandarin chinese. even if ur mestiza, a mestiza will never look like the cast of a korean tv show.

in my opinion, skin color adversity is a WAY bigger issue among Pinoys (and all Malays, for that matter). language is what unites us, not skin shade.
The Red Baron
i agree...we bisayas from visayas and mindanao outnumbered tagalogs from luzon... in the first place, i think cebu should be the philippines capital... its strategically at the the country's center...
oanari
INHO, there's no such thing as a "Filipino language" because the world knows that the Filipino language is Tagalog.

To unite this country, make English the primary language. NO official language, NO national language, no etc.

Tagalog, Ilocano, Bisaya, Bikol and other languages will be taught from kindergarten to grade 6 in their region of province. However, once they go to high school, English will be use. But a high school student must pass at least two regional language plus English to graduate from high school. A studeng must take one year of any regional language he/she chooses, and then another year for the next regional langauge, (two regional languages for two years), English on the other hand, will be taught from freshman to his/her senior year. If any of the high school student failed to pass at least one of the three, he/she will not graduate from high school (unless, if the school administrator is corrupt then that's a problem)

For example: a high school student from Manila must take one year of Tagalog, four years of English, and one year of any regional languages he/she chooses.
In Visayan region, a high school student must take one year of Bisaya, four years of English and one year of any regional languages he/she chooses.
In Cordillera region, a high school student must take one year of of either Ibaloi, Kankana-ey, Ifugao, etc (it depends on where the student go to school), four years of English and one year of any regional language he/she chooses.

Pag ganito, they don't have to worry about their language na baka mawala, dahil imbes na mawala, madadagdagan pa ang nagsasalita. icon_smile.gif
islander
Didn't know lang. issue was this big of a problem in the Philippines. Hope the philippines doesn't become the Czechoslovakia of Asia. (after vote broke up into Rep. of Czech and Rep. of Slovakia). Lots of others Nations in region would probably like that.
forcespike437
QUOTE (oanari @ Feb 13 2006, 04:07 PM)
INHO, there's no such thing as a "Filipino language" because the world knows that the Filipino language is Tagalog.

To unite this country, make English the primary language.  NO official language, NO national language, no etc.

Tagalog, Ilocano, Bisaya, Bikol and other languages will be taught from kindergarten to grade 6 in their region of province. However, once they go to high school, English will be use. But a high school student must pass at least two regional language plus English to graduate from high school. A studeng must take one year of any regional language he/she chooses, and then another year for the next regional langauge, (two regional languages for two years), English on the other hand, will be taught from freshman to his/her senior year. If any of the high school student failed to pass at least one of the three, he/she will not graduate from high school (unless, if the school administrator is corrupt then that's a problem)

For example: a high school student from Manila must take one year of Tagalog, four years of English, and one year of any regional languages he/she chooses. 
In Visayan region, a high school student must take one year of Bisaya, four years of English and one year of any regional languages he/she chooses.
In Cordillera region, a high school student must take one year of of either Ibaloi, Kankana-ey, Ifugao, etc (it depends on where the student go to school), four years of English and one year of any regional language he/she chooses.

Pag ganito, they don't have to worry about their language na baka mawala, dahil imbes na mawala, madadagdagan pa ang nagsasalita.  icon_smile.gif
*


i agree with your idea of teaching students their regional language..our regional languages are slowly being forgotten because students are never taught how to read and write in those regional languages..also, they never teach literature... but i dont agree with your idea of teaching too many languages because we all know the philippine government cannot afford it..
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