An independent state of Dega? What the heck are they thinking? Send in the reinforcements and crush the rebellion. These people are getting out of hand!

I hope this doesn't become a "Tibet" for Vietnam

There had never been a state of "dega." Tibet, on the other hand is a different story.

But these people were independent prior to being ruled by Vietnam. Just because they didn't have a flag, organized military and government, it doesn't make them any less.

But anyway, I was sincerely hoping that the Degas won't create an independent state but now that I know where you stand on the Tibetan issue, I hope the Degas win their freedom...

Are you saying that just because I want Tibet to win independence, you will go with against me and hope for the "degas" to win their independence? China has bunch of different ethics, do you think they should divide China into different countires independent of ethnic Han?

Seriously, Tibet is a different issue. I really don't give a crap if Tibet wins their freedom or not. But you stand for the "degas" just because you THINK I am for the Tibetan independence.

I don't believe China should be splitted up, period.

Actually I could care less whether the Degas become independent or not. I've never met a Dega before nor do I know much about them.

However, you reminded me that most Vietnamese actually support Tibetan independence, so I figure why not support Dega independence. Heck, Vietnam has 54 ethnic groups right? Why not independence for them all? Then we'll do the same with China, Russia, all the European nations, Africa, and eventually North, Central and South Americas and we will end up with over 50,000 tiny little nations and perhaps over 1,000 wars over disputed land... yeah... that's the ticket...

I don't believe Vietnam should be splitted up, period.

Actually I could care less whether the Tibetans become independent or not. I've never met a Tibetan before nor do I know much about them.

Let's not go there.

Tibet and Dega are two different issues. There was a proud and powerful Tibet not that long ago. There was NEVER a Dega.

If it wasn't for you Chinese's persecution of the ethnic Hmongs and other tribal people, they wouldn't be fleeing China and into northern Vietnam. Remember those people didn't left China that long ago. This happened during the Qing Dynasty. So you expel a group of people, they found refuge in Vietnam and now you want them to have their own country in Vietnam? How funny is this.

Crush them! They think that they are being suppressed when they are not, these people are making the biggest mistake in the history of themselves. Where the heck did they get this name from?

Hahaha, you're blaming this on the Chinese?

I've already said, I could care less about whether they receive independence or not.

It's not like the Vietnamese were native to where they are now

Then why are you even being STUPID enough to say that if we support Tibet Independence then you support "Dega" being independent from Vietnam? You must remember this mess is created by China and we won't take $hits from what the Chinese did.

I was half-kidding... It's not like I really care what a couple of kids on the Internet think about Tibet

China didn't "create this mess". In human history, strong prevails and the weak perish. China was strong, just as the Europeans during the age of imperialism. Are you going to blame the strong and powerful for doing what they could, or are you going to blame the weak for not being able to defend themselves. Maybe if the Vietnamese government treated them the Degas a little better this "mess" wouldn't exist

So typical of you NQSH, blaming others for your own problems tsk tsk

Vietnam would let them live in a reservation, but NOT as an independent state.

Oh, OK, Mr. Vietnamese President...

Yes, Mr. "Kulong," the representative of all Chinese. <<< Remember who says that?

Gotta love RockHeart :genius:

Uh so we're a bunch of Vietnamese kids huh?

I'm sorry but this is in fact a mess left by China no matter how you view it and I couldn't care less if you agree or not. It's so typical of you to brush off all responsibilities of the Chinese by saying that might is right. In that case, why are you so anti-American with your rhetoric? Isn't it that the strong prevails?

I'm not "anti-American". I am anti-aggressive-U.S.-government. I was indifferent, and almost liked the U.S. government during the Clinton administration.

Yes strong prevails, but we now live in a different world. We now have international laws and peace-keeping organizations...

You are against an aggressive US but from what is uttered out of your mouth, you are all for an aggressive China. You fail to recognise that China was an aggresive bully in the past and present but simply blame other bullied nations for being weak. Why are you applying double standard?

If your argument goes around, Iraq should be blamed for being weak, not the US being aggressive, RIGHT?

Pathetic.

I fail to recognize that China was aggressive in the past? Hahahaha... if China wasn't aggressive, our country would be only a couple of square miles around the Yellow River basin!

Iraq SHOULD be blamed for being weak. But like I said, today, we live in a much more civilized world where we have international laws and peace-keeping organizations, something that didn't exist 100 years ago...

It's funny how emotional you get

Muahahaha if you think I must have been emotional then I think you're judging your state of mind, rather than mine.

So you don't think China is an aggressive bully in this day and age? If you want me to mention, I can name a few.

But as I would say, if you want to criticise the Americans you must do some self assessment of what your people has did, how many millions of other ethnics your people have killed and continuing to do so, then you have the right to criticise the Americans or whomever. Practice what you preach.

Again, the so called "Dega" is not the same as Tibet. There was once a proud Tibet and the Chinese communists marched into an independent country and subjected them to your occupation at gun point. There was never a Dega and we did not take Dega's land. If you fail to understand this then I'm deeply concerned.

China isn't completely innocent. But by comparison, Western imperialists were much worse.

China is killing non-Han ethnics today? Care to provide some evidence?

Vietnamese aren't exactly innocent either. Just look at how much hatred the Khmers have for you people


Typical Western opinion.

And again, I don't really care about the Degas... it's a Vietnamese problem

Muahahha, now that's a completely new perspective.



What do you call killing of ethnic Uighurs based on the false pretext of anti-terrorism? What do you call the locking out of jobs for Uighurs in their own land?

What do you call the killing of Tibetans and other ethnics for being dissidents?



Now name me a case of Vietnamese atrocity committed against Cambodian people in the recent memory or as far back as last century? They resented us for the taking of Khmer Krom, of which was given to us by a Chinese named Mac Thien Tich.



Yes it is typical, BUT the question is that is it true or not? Now you tell me.



If you don't really care, why are you here in the first place? Talk of being a hypocrite.

There are no genocide being committed to the Uighurs like Europeans did to Native-Americans if that's what you mean. Uighur terrorists have been blowing up buildings and taking Han Chinese lives for years.

Do you have proof that Uighurs are being "locked out of jobs"?


Oh please...


I don't care about what happens to the Degas but I was merely interested by this issue.

With this stupid statement, I don't feel a need to discuss this topic any further with a blinded Chinese nationalist.

Throughout the invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam there are numerous reports about Vietnamese atrocities. Heck I even watched an entire hour long documentary of Vietnamese atrocities in Cambodia on PBS.



You "Free Tibet" people have a new hobby - "Free Degas!".

And when was this?

We are talking about the contemporary history here, if you haven't realised. Talking about recent history, how did over 1 million Tibetans died anyway? How did so many Uighurs and the minorities died anyway? How did those people become minorities in their own ancestrial lands? How were thousands of Mosques torn down in Uighurs and Muslim dominated areas anyway?

Unlike Tibetans who already had already established nationhood, the people in the Vietnamese Central Highlands are a fragmented bunch who don't share a common language, custom and culture. There are very little written languages that some of them resort to using French to communicate with each other.

The "Dega" state makes no sense at all since most of those advocating for it don't even have a first grade education.

They died when they started armed terrorist activities with CIA funding in 1959. You mix up deaths SINCE and deaths in one incident. This lead to a widescale PLA crackdown of all participating people.


How many do you know? Uighurs have been killed and killed Chinese for thousands of years.


They were economically unprepared as Han businesses took over the economic role of minority businesses. Why don't you take a look in Khmer Krom?


You tell me. Xinjiang's population majority used to be Hans.

So you call people who fight for their own freedom, terrorists? Great use of the word terrorism by Chinese I may say, just like how the Israelis would use it to murder Palestinians. The fact remains that China invaded Tibet illegally and they were simply fighting for their independence, how are they terrorists?



If there is one Han killed by Uighur, then there are most likely 10 Uighurs systematically massacred by Han.



The Chinese policy of trying migration into those areas has the sole purpose of illegitimise the ethnics' claim to their own land. Another way is of course to control them economically, make them poor so they cannot compete nor voice their dissence. Tell me about Khmer Krom.



And when was this?

Khmer Krom was 400 years ago. Tibet was invaded in 1950 by the current government of China.

It was actually some Viet-Ams in America that instigated the rebellion in Vietnam. These mountain people don't know anything about politics, they don't have a language of their own, they don't even have a way of writting. These Viet-Ams and some other anti-Viets lured them so that they revolt against the Vietnamese government, kidnap school children in the central provinces, and looted Vietnamese stores.

I don't believe you should be disrepectful to the Degas for that. You could say the very same things about Vietnamese people when Han Chinese first made contact with them.

I know what you mean, and I am not showing racism against these people. The majority of these people don't even go to college, I am sorry, but it's the truth. Without education, where the heck did they get the idea of revolting against the central government and kidnapping school children when we have never heard of instances like these in the past few years?

There is no such thing as Degas or the people of Degas so it is not justified for you to tall them "the Degas". However, I respect the uniqueness of the hilltribe people and their contribution to Vietnamese diversity. And the tourist dollars of course... muahahahahha



I believe the hilltribe people are influenced by anti-government and anti-communist elements. Those people should just get a life and acknowledge that there current government is here to stay. I don't necessarily like the current government but I appreciate the stabilising and peace factor it is bringing to Vietnam

Do they purposely choose not to be educated? Or do they simply don't have the means? They sound a lot like the Shandiren (Taiwanese aboriginies) during the 1950's and early 60's.

They do not have the will to be educated. Why do you think they want to live up in the mountains in the first place? You'll find that most hilltribes want to preserve their way of live and isolated from civilisation, much like African aboriginies, dessert people etc.

I didn't mean the government forbid them to be educated. They actually have a choice of education, but they chose not to. For reasons such as: too poor to go to school beyond middle or high schools; or simply they just don't want to go because of their beliefs or their ways of life.

I seriously doubt that. During the 1950's and early 60's in Taiwan, the aboriginies were thought of the same way as you think of the Degas. Most of them lived in the mountains with their traditions. Some of them ventured to the cities but had low-level jobs. In the 1970's and 80's, the government gave them more opportunities and benefits, and now there are more educated aboriginies. Some even became celeberties like Zhang Huimei (A-Mei) or baseball players. They also became part of the mainstream society. Heck, one of my cousins back in Taiwan is dating an aboriginie girl.


I didn't mean the government forbid them to receive education either. I was talking about economical opportunities. To say that they simply choose not to get educated, you've already sealed their fate...

Same as for the current day of Vietnam. Vietnam is providing them education, health services just like anyone else, but they decided to go against the government after what they recieved from their own government.

And you know that, how?

Because I read it from the Vietnamese news.

By the way, can anybody cares to explain to me who are the Degas? Do they exist? I'm sure the Tibetans do.



How are the hilltribe people of Vietnam disadvantaged in any way? The Vietnamese government is not preventing them from going to school. Surely you can say that we could do better to help them but being a poor country like Vietnam, it does not yet have the capacity to.





Its up to them to find economic opportunities. You can't just expect the government to spoon feed you. Where is the spirit of entrepreneurship?



And who are you to dispute that? Do you know what is currently happening in Vietnam?

News controlled by the government?

But anyway, I hope your view on the Degas doesn't represent that of the whole Vietnamese population. Taiwanese used to think of the aboriginies as backwards and don't desire education, but they were wrong. Everyone would desire to be educated and lead a prosperous, comfortable life if they were given the chance.


How the hell are the Degas going to learn the spirit of entrepreneurship when they don't even know algebra... African-Americans were given advantages to jump start their people. Chinese government even gives benefits to the poorer ethnic minorities like college scholarships.


I don't have the right to question one's source?

I question the government source as well but on the other hand, do you trust the news by the overseas Vietnamese? They are both propagandas in my opinion.

Xinhua and People's Daily are just as bad as the Vietnamese propaganda.

Are you saying that I am thinking low of these people? No!

And how do you know that Taiwan provided the natives their freedom of education, improved their lives?

Well it seems like you believe they don't want to be educated...

I know because my parents lived through that era, I received up to fourth grade education in Taiwan and we learned it in our history class as well. I also keep up with the current events of Taiwan. Prior to the 1980's, aboriginies joining Taiwan's professional baseball league, become a popular pop idol, or dating a Han would've been unthinkable.

Taiwanese Aboriginies are still living on mountains. Bull$hit the Taiwanese government assisted them so much.

You make me laugh when you say that the Chinese government granted scholarships etc to ethnic minorities. What are they but propagandas. The real improvement needed is equal opportunities between Non-Hans and Hans and stop to Han migration to ethnic regions and make them ethnics in their own lands.

If the Chinese government is so great, there would be no separatist movements in Xinjiang.

I also keep up with my Vietnamese news source, both from U.S., and Vietnam. Just search CNN, Google, Yahoo for news, and I do it every morning.

I am sure, and I can bet that Vietnam is doing all the job that can be done to help these people. They need to have a little faith in Vietnam.

WOW such things constitute an achievement. I'm amazed.