I know Malaysia and China has these laws that if you sell/do drugs you will get the death penalty but why???? How do Malaysians view drugs? What do they think about this punishment?

I think committing murder is far more worse than selling or doing drugs. One can be fixed or gone through some treatment/rehabilitation to get to stop doing drugs or staying away from drugs but once your dead its no chance no nothing nada.

It is not just Malaysia and China, but Singapore and Indonesia and many more countries in the world.. Malaysia considered drugs as our no 1 enemy..

Maybe murder is far more worse than selling drugs, but do you know the domino effect from drugs are far more worse than murdering a person.. Besides that, selling drugs is same as killing people, but slowly..

Since the drugs are addictive, the drug addict can turn into monster if they couldn't get their stock.. A lot of crime will happen because of these drug addict since they dont have money to buy it.. A son might kill his mother if he couldnt get any money from his mom.. there are stories like this many times..
The snatch thieves are drug addicts and unfortunately, they killed many of their victims accidentally..

It is better hang the drug dealer.. it will makes people afraid to do it.. and to make it better, hang them in public.. The money that use to do the rehabilitation can be use in many more useful ways.. Every year, it is estimated more than RM500 mill. (USD 150 mill) is used just to tackle this prob. These including the rehabilitation center, enforcement and campaign cost and many more..

That does make sense but if a person is going crazy that his drugs are unavailable and commits a crime i.e kill his mother, rape his sister, etc. he should get a punishment for that specific crime.

But i understand that this may make a person fear drug but even with this death punishment, how are the drug crime rates in these countries? Are they very low??

If its effective i guess its good and worth it but i just disagree ending ones life due to drugs imo

however if its ineffective, death is too harsh imo

Yes.. the drug user also will get the punishment..

About the drug crime rates, i'm not sure..

There could be more effective ways to deal with drug dealers. Death penalty should not be the only way.

Japan has the death penalty in their statutes but they no longer use it on ordinary crimes like drug trafficking. There are several cultural and societal issues why death penalties are accepted as a justified punishment for crimes in countries like china, usa, malaysia, japan, singapore, iran, saudi arabia etc.., and in other countries they have abolished it. Read abt some of these cultural and societal factors here, it's interesting the psychological effect that death penalty has on people :

http://www.japanfile.com/culture_and_socie...h_penalty.shtml

which society do u want to be in?

Its good for drug traffickers to die.

i dont think death penalty is a proportionate response.
but convicted drug smugglers cannot use this as an excuse. they only have themselves to blame for being silly in dealing in these countries.

Personally I'm against the death penalty but, I believe that as long as the law is applied fairly to everyone then each individual country has the right to set their own laws. Those who chose to enter these countries and break their laws should be prepared to face the consequences. Ignorance is not an excuse and besides, theses countries stance on drug traffickers are so well documented I don't believe anyone travelling to SE Asia can say thay didn't realise that drug trafficking is punisable by death.

Recently, there was a drug trafficking case in Singapore, an Australian national of Vietnamese descent was caught with heroin during transit in Changi Airport on his way from cambodia to australia. He was nabbed by the narcotics police and later sentenced to death.

Much plea and demonstration was made in Australia and Singapore to the SG authorities for clemency to spare the boy's life.

Many thought he should have been deported by the SG authorities to Australia which was his final destination anyway to be dealt with by the Ozzie authorities. And where there is no death penalty for drug trafficking.

The boy was 19 yrs when he committed the mule job, and 21 yrs when he was executed by hanging. It was alleged that he had done the mule job in order to get some money to pay the legal fees for his elder brother who was in jail for assault.

The question in many people's minds who were against the drug penalty for this boy was whether we should be given a second chance in life to make amends for our mistakes. If the boy had been your own brother, wouldn't you want him to be given a second chance to make amends?

Yes, but the laws of the country have to be applied fairly to everyone. If the same situation arose but the person in concern was Singaporean or Malaysian should that change what should happen to him. Just as you would not go to your neighbours house and tell them how to run their home, (as long as the laws are being applied fairly), we cannot tell other countries which laws they should or should not have. If people disaree with those laws they should just then not visit that country.
To have someone break the law of one country yet serve their sentence in another county, with a lighter sentence at that, would just make a mockery of the first country's laws and judiaciary system.
Hopefully with all the publicity this case recieved it will deter any other young people from taking this risk.

Swingdoctor, when you are in 'transit' at Changi Airport, i.e. you are hanging around the transit area, you are technically in no-man's land.

The boy could have travelled onto Sydney and be nabbed under the laws of that land there for all we care.

^^ i thought the police will only perform checks when a person is checking out of the airport? so did the boy get arrested while in transit, ie: without checking out of the airport? i dunno. i think it really depends what the law says. if its considered a strict liability offence how do u justify giving such person a second chance, without making a mockery of the law? of course such laws can be very brutal and unfair at times, but thats another story. once a law is enacted, it becomes 'the law'. perhaps the only way to save a supposedly innocent drug trafficker who has been unfairly convicted is perhaps by requesting for a pardon/clemency from the competent authority. if the offence requires an intent to sell (in s'pore?), and that it has been proven such intent exist, then i also think no second chance should be given.

check out this movie/mini-series based on a true story about 2 aust'n drug smugglers nabbed in penang.
"Dadah Is Death" (1988):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094937/

I must say, some of those dirtbags have very interesting excuses.

You say that the laws of a country have to be applied to everyone, irregardless. Has it ever occurred to you that these laws could be wrong in the first place?

Let's see... I'll go to some extreme cases now. In Chiina, the state carries out execution by the firing squad and the family of the executed is made to repay the state cost of the bullet. In Iran, there are public executions and floggings carried out where the crowd gathers to watch as if its the Sunday matinee.

What kind of a mentality is this that takes such a literal view on punishment?

Eye for an eye?

Panca, the police were tipped off by an informer about this kid. You see, drug mules go in batches, and there is usually a tip-off so that the police would concentrate on the decoy and the other mules go through.

Of course, the law of the land was applied without so much as an argument whether the arrest was made under Singapore territory or not. The clemency appeal to the President failed predictable amidst a furore of harsh words from the Australian government and threats of economic sanctions.

Despite the hype whipped up by the media, this case of Van Nguyen for the first time brought doubts to the surface of Singaporean society whether the mandatory death sentence is a humane form of punishment.

I have not seen this movie Dadah is Death. But I would urge you to watch Maria, Full of Grace about the plight of a Colombian girl's experience as a cocaine drug mule.

^ cool. i might check out that movie sometime.

If the law of the land states that he can be caught in transit then so be it. He could just as easily been caught in Vietnam with the same consequnces.


In China the people don't have a voice but if did and they agreed as a nation that that was fair who are we as outsiders to say that that's not.
I personally don't believe in an eye for an eye but I believe stronger in a nations right to decide what is best for themselves.
Obviously like anything else in the world, nothing is black and white but all a shade of grey.




My understanding is that the police were not tipped off(that is the case with the Bali 9). He was caught because the heroin that was strapped to his body was uncomfortable and while in transit he removed it and put it in his hand luggage. The heroin was found when his bag was routinely checked by airport security prior to boarding the plane. I feel sorry for him and his family but he wasn't very smart either.

Although clemancy was sought by the Australian government, trade sanctions were only ever mentioned by a few parlimentarians who were mainly in the opposition. The Australian government never threathened economic sanctions. A few lay-people have called for the boycott of Singapore Airlines but this never eventuated and SIA flights are still full. Listening to talk back radio, and this was a very polarising topic, most callers though sympathising with Van Nguyen's plight and hoped that he would be granted clamency, also felt that if you break the law, then you have to be prepared to for the consequences.

Whether he took the heroin package out of his body or not, you can check the Wikipedia for the facts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Tuong_Van

The point is this was the first time an arrest was made in no-man's land, and this has set a precedent obviously for the future.

Of course a country is free to set its laws however it sees fit.

But that does not preclude our objective criticism that these laws are inherently unjust or inhumane.

The death penalty - particularly where it is mandatory - is against the international law. Singapore tends to copy the US in its policies. And the US has had to abolish mandatory death penalty in the 1970s when it was proven to be contrary to their constitution. That change in law commuted the death sentences of hundreds..

i'm not sure about china but drugs is a very big problem for SEA that's why they put in the death penalty.

I agree, I believe the death penalty should be abolished and I agree the precedent of being arrested in no mans land is a dangerous one but if that is the law of the land then foreigners have to abide by them.
You're Singaporean aren't you, you have the right if you disagree with the laws of the land to internally try to change them. Foreigners do not, but I agree that this is a grey area and arguments can be mde either way.

Yes, there are several civic group movements on the ground in SG, one of which is a lobby movement to ask for a judicial review of death sentences, especially mandatory death sentences. One little step at a time... no one in the government will budge if we lobby for a total abolition.

Particularly in SG, with one party politics. Are you active in any of these groups?

I sign all their petitions regarding commuting of death sentences or clemencies. The aim now is to get the public to debate about death penalties openly and not accept handed-down arguments quietly. All said, quiet diplomacy works better than megaphone lobbying.

Howabout in Msia? Are there any anti-death penalty lobby groups?

I think one of the issues with Asian cultures is that we tend to accept our lot in life and don't question our governments too much, which means that we can be manipulated. Take SG as an example, I think SG is so successfull in so many ways(maybe thats why the people are so compliant), and the government is so successfull at social engineering.

Indeed.

Our government runs tiny SG like an italian state in accordance to Niccolo Machiavelli's discourses. All means may be resorted to for the establishment and preservation of authority -- the end justifies the means.

But some of us believe we could be having a sort of local renaissance now on the ground, a focus on the importance of living well in the present (humanism). And in the commercial sphere, possibly a rise of global exploration.

Howabout Malaysia? Is there any flourishing on the ground?

Don't know, don't live in Malaysia anymore but most of my friends who are still there have travelled the world more extensively then their parents have. These days sending a child overseas to study isn't as much of an issue as it was 30 years ago.
I think though that as the country becomes more educated, the people expect more from their governments and are not as easily manipulated. I think the PAP is seeing this and responding in kind. Furthermore with more affordable airfares and the internet, the world is becoming a smaller place. Singapore is very interesting, You don't often find a one party government that has developed the country as successfully as the PAP has, with such a weak opposition. You still see nepotism and croonism but not at such a scale as other countries in similar situations and Singapore has still thrived. Ah well, all hail king LKY, the father of Singapore and the real power of Singapore

Looking at the effects of drug on the addicts, I do support the death penalty for drug trafficking. Too bad the ones usually caught are not the boss/mastermind. Committing a murder is killing the person(s) outright. But selling drugs to addicts are equally bad cos the drug turns someone into a devil, when they crave for drugs, the addicts will do ANYTHING to get their hands on drugs which may mean taking the life of others and yet they do not have the courage to end their life/torture/misery themselves. Rehabilitation do not always work cos it's tough to quit once started. Besides, society does not accept them back readily and there's not much job opportunity for them once they're known as former addicts.
If you travel by aeroplane, there will be an announcement made prior to landing that drug trafficking (or having certain amount of drug on you) is an offence and the punishment is the death penalty in that country. So, ample warning is given. High risk, big gain - if you made it, you have lots of cash. If you don't, you pay with your life. I read somewhere that they observe a period of silence as a mark of respect for that kid who was sentenced to death by hanging; i don't know if that is true, but i wonder what the heck for? I don't mean to hurt the feelings of his parents or family, but he brought those consequences to himself. Look at the pictures of drug addicts and read about the horror story of having one's family member turned into an addict. Since his own brother is also an addict, he should know better. Thank god he was punished in time before he managed to get his supplies to the market. That would lessen his sins.
Everyone has their own sad story or needs money one way or another. But if you're so selfish as to destroy the lives of others by peddling drugs just to save yourself, then you deserve no mercy.
If the drugs were planted on you, well, that's another different story - just have to be careful with your luggages and belongings to ensure no one uses you.

BTW Doctor, did you know that last month the Australian government denied Singapore Airlines traffic rights between Australia and the United States (Sydney-LAX route)? Canberra said its decision had nothing to do with the hanging of Nguyen. Hehe... John Howard sure is a consummate politician who knows how to read the mood of his public. My government on the other hand, seems too good at winning arguments (mandatory death penalty), but can't quite get the big picture sometimes (humanism and trade relations)!

also here in thailand but its not really enforced its designed to put off people trafficking drugs into the country.....not designed to get the lowly users......
puff puff

The thing is that there has been situations where a drug racquet smuggling ring by baggage handlers at the airport have been known to exist. Imagine, you end up with hashish or marijuana in your checked-in luggage; what can you do to get off the noose?

So I've noticed.. in the past couple months.. that there've been some cases of Australian asians bringing drugs into SEA and getting persecuted.

Do they not know that you're just simply not allowed to board a plane with drugs? Like, seriously.. we were thought that in high school.

More drug awareness and education. Less propaganda. We need to accept that people will take drugs, at least teach promote harm reduction.

Netherlands, Australia, and even some cities like Detroit all have different approaches to drugs than we do, yet how come it doesnt get out of control? I lived in Australia for 5 years and every person I met has at least tried weed once but nearly everyone has turned out fine. Teach them the dangers, but also promote safe drug usage cause there's no way you can control everyone's actions.

John Howard is indeed the consumate politician . Still I can't complain I did vote for him in the last election . The problem is that the opposition at the moment is very weak and I never like the idea of voting for a party that is so strongly affiliated with the unions.
I don't believe that the Aust Govnt's decision to deny SIA traffic rights btw Sydney-LAX had anything to do with Van Nguyen I think it had everyting to do with Qantas protecting their honey pot. That route is a very lucrative one for our national carrier.

Let 'em hang! Drug dealers has systemtically destroy the basic fabric of society, that is from the tear in family unit & later into society at large.

Drug addicts are youths needed by the nation to become productive citizens, not to become half-dead zombies in the slums.

And yes, let the drug dealers hang for good!

MANDATORY death penalties should be removed. They're simply a belligerently cheap measure of tackling the localised drug problem. The government just doesnt want to spend the money educating youths about drugs and facilitating help to those who fall into the deep throes of addiction. Using fear as a deterrent to save money.

All lot of you seem to fear drugs entering your community. Do remember it does take an idiot from your community to try drugs, get addicted and wreck your society. If you take away the drugs, you still have the idiots.

Seems there are too many idiots in China, Congo and US here are the number of people executed in 1998:

Rank Country Amount (top to bottom)
#1 China 1,067 executions
#2 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 100 executions
#3 United States 68 executions
#4 Iran 66 executions
#5 Egypt 48 executions
#6 Belarus 33 executions
#7 Taiwan 32 executions
#8 Saudi Arabia 29 executions
#9 Singapore 28 executions
#10 Sierra Leone 24 executions
#11 Rwanda 24 executions
#12 Vietnam 18 executions
#13 Yemen 17 executions
#14 Afghanistan 10 executions
#15 Jordan 9 executions
#16 Nigeria 6 executions
#17 Oman 6 executions
#18 Japan 6 executions
#19 Kuwait 6 executions
#20 Cuba 5 executions
#21 Pakistan 4 executions
#22 Kyrgyzstan 4 executions
#23 Bahamas, The 2 executions
#24 Zimbabwe 2 executions
#25 Lebanon 2 executions
#26 Guatemala 1 executions
#27 Ethiopia 1 executions
#28 Thailand 1 executions
#29 Syria 1 executions
#30 Sudan 1 executions

The criminal makes always excuse,
that australian is deserved to dead
collecting money to help brother through doing a crime is unacceptable,
it is easy if u do not get death sentence, do not do such crime..

a student who killed his school mate in columbine had a reason, that he got frustrated because his family situation economic situation but it does not make him free from the law..