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Najjiah
i am fascinated by them. their way of dress, looks, and culture. are they the indigenous people of japan?

its like they r japanese but more exotic & colorful.






three_kingdoms
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 22 2006, 11:55 PM) *




the guy on top to the left and the guy on bottom to the right have to be the same guy... lol
Najjiah
QUOTE (three_kingdoms @ Mar 23 2006, 12:12 AM) *
the guy on top to the left and the guy on bottom to the right have to be the same guy... lol
lol! he's so adorable! like a crazy old grandfather.
three_kingdoms
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 23 2006, 12:28 AM) *
lol! he's so adorable! like a crazy old grandfather.



haha look at the way he's holding the sword in the bottom pic! He's gonna kick someone's @$$! LOL!!!!!!
Zezei
look asian

could even pass for koreans
jason76
They just look like Japanese that are sticking to the traditional way of life to me!
X_Dragon
koool
Nath
Amazing pictures! beerchug.gif

The two people in the very first picture look very 'north-east asian'. I'm pretty sure they're mixed i.e with Japanese. But the lady whose pic was taken in 1900 looks like a native American. The guy with a big beard holding a sword looks like an Indian or Pakistani. And the old man in red with a beard looks like a native of one of the eastern islands of Indonesia, and the lady in black right next to him looks like a Central Asian(eg. Uzbek or Uyghur). Whoa! Great diversity of facial features.
Tav6
I heard that the Ainu People of japan look more mix like between white and asian but from these pics they don't look mix at all
rahul1000
QUOTE (Nath @ Mar 23 2006, 08:28 AM) *
The guy with a big beard holding a sword looks like an Indian or Pakistani.


What? No way dude, he looks east asian/oriental to me.
lilasiankid
Yeah, I heard Ainu were white'ish people that eventually got kinda displaced by Japanese invaders.
Najjiah
they DO look native american! but if the ainus are the original inhabitants of japan then where did the present day japanese people come from? mainland china?

i cant fathom that coz chinese & japanese ppl look totally different to me.
Tav6
^^^ my friend told me about the story of how 50 chinese men and 50chinese women sailed to Japan and live there and that's how they start the japanese kingdom <<<<< lol i don't know if that's true though lol maybe because she is bias or something becuase she is chinese too lol
lilasiankid
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 23 2006, 12:26 PM) *
they DO look native american! but if the ainus are the original inhabitants of japan then where did the present day japanese people come from? mainland china?

i cant fathom that coz chinese & japanese ppl look totally different to me.



Maybe being on an Island for generations...they developed their own "unique" look lol embarassedlaugh.gif


Alot of different Asian people still look indistinguishable anyways. Just some that you usually notice.
Jarhier
when i got here jchat had like 5 ainu ppl thread going on. all resulted in saying that they are the reason why japanese celebrities look white today shrug.gif
three_kingdoms
ainu are classified as asian or mongoloid.
Najjiah
QUOTE (Jarhier @ Mar 23 2006, 11:03 AM) *
when i got here jchat had like 5 ainu ppl thread going on. all resulted in saying that they are the reason why japanese celebrities look white today shrug.gif

so ainu are aryans like pakis & indians? or are they european caucasians that came from russia via the berring sea durin the ice age?

that one woman up there looks really east indian to me.
Jarhier
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 23 2006, 01:40 PM) *
or are they european caucasians that came from russia via the berring sea durin the ice age?


that.

debatable whoever(chinese, korean, mongol) came to japan but they started to mixing with ainu ppl and now japanese have white features etc. well that was general direction of threads.
Viety_Cent
^ well even now the natives are already mixed with japanese already so i doubt there any real natives at all

and i swear that have seen some native looking japanese at my university

there was the guest speaker who was japanese Canadian he looked like the guy in the pic
Najjiah
QUOTE (Jarhier @ Mar 23 2006, 11:48 AM) *
that.

debatable whoever(chinese, korean, mongol) came to japan but they started to mixing with ainu ppl and now japanese have white features etc. well that was general direction of threads.

i agree. look at miss japan. she looks halfie to me but she's 100% full japanese.



she could be ainu. she's GORGEOUS!
gangi788
,,,
Adee
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 23 2006, 02:40 PM) *
so ainu are aryans like pakis & indians? or are they european caucasians that came from russia via the berring sea durin the ice age?

that one woman up there looks really east indian to me.

No no no, there're not caucasians or even related to them. They are more similar to native tribes in SE asia and Australian aborigines, but they are also quite different because they were islolated for so long.
Najjiah
QUOTE (Adee @ Mar 23 2006, 01:02 PM) *
No no no, there're not caucasians or even related to them. They are more similar to native tribes in SE asia and Australian aborigines, but they are also quite different because they were islolated for so long.

so they r aboriginals like the aetas of the philippines. hence the curly hair on sum of them. but they arent dark. another theory is that they are polynesians.
azndood
The ainu are one of the original inhabitants of the japanese islands. Genetically they are closer to mongoloid, while physically some have classified them to be causcoid. The japanese are mainly of two different stock, the older derived from Jomon, while the newer, Yayoi. As time passed the jomon were displaced more towards the northern(Hokkaido) and southern(Okinawan) extremeties of the islands, and the more dominant yayoi inhabits the central areas of japan. The average japanese is believed to be of 3/4 yayoi and 1/4 jomon. Where pale skin came from is debatable, for originally, the japanese aboriginals were more of a pacific islander stock, being darker, shorter, and different bone structure to that of the yayoi. The yayoi were paler, taller, and less hairsute than that of the jomon. I recommend reading Mark Hudson's Ruins of Identity: Ethnogenesis of the Japanese Islands, or Jared Diamonds article Japanese roots for more information of the Ainu.
tree
Perhaps the Ainu are a class of their own? (ie not Mongoloid, Caucasoid, etc.)
bigboy
all i know is japan hates being compared to koreans
poonster
the old man in the last pic looks like he's gonna murder someone with that katana;;

QUOTE (bigboy @ Mar 23 2006, 06:04 PM) *
all i know is japan hates being compared to koreans


why's that? confused.gif
MightyCrown
QUOTE (poonster @ Mar 24 2006, 08:08 AM) *
why's that? confused.gif
oh great here we go again icon_rolleyes.gif

Btw @Poonster, why did you said i stereotyped koreans in korean chat when i NEVER been in there before? Why you are lying? Why you doing that? sheesh man, i dont have anything against you. Why say bad untrue things about me? You are disappointing. icon_confused.gif
Jarhier
last time someone mentioned that japan's royal ancestor could have been korean, korean posters were ticked. it's not new that japanese dont want to assosiate with koreans either.

btw, what do japanese teach about their roots in japan or widely accepted?
MightyCrown
I see many foreigners imagine another Myth that Japanese "dont know past connections to Korea", but this another of your big misconceptions! Japanese are very aware of historical connections to Asia. So dont bash Japanese people again! Sheesh

In case you didnt know. Heisei Emperor already stated publically OFFICIALLY that some of his ancestors included some past aristocrats from Korean peninsula who immigrated to Japan many centuries ago, and he honors the Korean ancestors too.

In case you didnt know. History of Torai-jin, starting in 4th century, who immigrated from kingdoms of korean peninsula is studied in Japanese schools. After end of Koukuri and Kudara kingdoms after 7th century, many more took refuge in Japan to escape mainland wars & political problems, assimilated and contributed much to Japanese culture and development. This is old news to Japanese.

This is all included as standard history material in Japanese high school textbooks, understand?

But i notice you suspicious foreigners always have mistaken stereotype that Japanese education and textbooks is bad or erase Asian history connection? But that is NOT true, so stop negative propaganda, and stop bashing Japanese society! Whats the matter with you obsessed people?? Haa?? sure.gif

So yes, Japanese truly have historical connections and ancestory from mainland Asian areas, including Korean. More recent Japanese theories also suggested other migrations came from older groups from the South (Taiwan and North Philippines) and from the North (Sakhalin & Siberia). There was interesting tv documentary about this broadcast before by the government sponsored channel. (So even your imaginary "right wing" government agrees Japanese are Asians! Ha!) Some people also came from some Chinese dynasties as scholars, artists and monks. These many different migrations of different kinds of people from different directions, happened over many centuries, created many layers in Japanese ethnicity, and everyone mixed together in Japan, which formed a new base of unique people now called "Japanese".

So Japanese are definitely Asians too, understand?
bubbles20
the Ainus are NOT caucasian and no japanese people do NOT look mixed with white and if they appear to, its NOT because of mixed ainu blood icon_rolleyes.gif

the ainu make up a minority of the population anyway
soltung
ainu are mixed between australoid type people and proto-caucasian people who reached east asia through siberia...

actually there is also ainu admixture among koreans and other northeast asians...
Najjiah
omg... wtf happened to my thread?

isnt this about the ainu & not the korean/chinese/japanese war? and WHY r u guys arguing? do u have any idea how lucky u all are to be living in one of the most progressive & finacially sucessful nations in asia? all other countries look up to the big 3 - china, japan, and korea. quit bickering & pat urselves in the back.

ok, on with the ainu chat. my theory is that the earliest inhabitants of japan were probably aboriginals from the pacfic islands. observe the kinky hair and darker skin of the old man with the sword & afro. then eventually... the european caucasians came in from russia via the berring sea & bred with the aboriginals. hence the lighter skin, hairier than normal bodies, and taller frame. it created a whole new race that is what the ainu is today. they are CLEARLY not mongoloid. rather... if u observe, they r more eskimo/pacific islander looking.
bubbles20
yeah they do look sort of like pacific type of peoples
not sure about eskimos though.....alot of eskimos (inuits?) are very mongoloid looking (actually they ARE)

im not too sure about the russin imbreeding though
alot of austronoid people have alot of body hair genetically
it doesnt have to be a caucasian influence

either way, theres too many different speculations on the origins of the ainu people so who knows which theory is correct shrug.gif
MightyCrown
If you meet a few japanese who looks quite european, its because they probably are part european to some degree. But this is traced to MODERN recent immigration of some europeans to japan during the Meiji, Taisho, Showa periods from the 19th-20th centuries, when Japan rapidly opened, modernized itself, and imported many Western materials. During this time opportunistic Westerners came to Japan to profit from the newly growing economy. Some of this Westerners stayed in Japan permanently.

This has NOTHING to do with ainu and ancient archaology. Since the 19th century, there were Russian fishermen who settled in northern japanese towns in Hokkaido and intermarried, as well as French, Jewish and Germans in Kansai, or some Spanish and Dutch in Kyushu (though this is even older back to 16th-17th-18th centuries), and even decendents of 19th century American whalers in some pacific islands owned by Japan. These peoples descendants were usually assimilated into Japanese society. Though they personally kept their family records, diaries, photographs of their european ancestors from the past. But they are a small minority of Japanese, and not great in numbers.

Btw, if you didnt already know, that ridiculous theory that ainu are supposed to be "proto-caucasian" was imagined by White Western anthorpologists at the height of the European Imperialism and Colonialism era, so its theoretically connected to Eurocentric racist interpretation of non-white people. Those theories were developed by White racist anthroplogists who treated Asians, Native Americans, and Africans like cheap guinea pigs, by taking lots of nude pictures of Asians, measuring Asian skull sizes, measuring their Asian vagina and penis, dubious White "scientists" touching many Asian penises to check the thickness (talk about a supressed homoerotic racial fetish or what!), and basically treating Asians as less than civilized fodder for their scientific "curiosity". It was disgusting. This was standard anthropolgical practice back then, and connected to such thories that eventually influenced the infamous eugenics and racial supremacy theories in the late 19th century and early 20th century.

So if you are Asian or non-white, i hope you drop that "ainu=proto-caucasian" nonsense please. As mother always says: Dont put anything into your mouth unless you know where its been. That includes old racist theories invented by 19th century western Colonial anthropolgists.
Najjiah
QUOTE (bubbles20 @ Mar 23 2006, 06:19 PM) *
yeah they do look sort of like pacific type of peoples
not sure about eskimos though.....alot of eskimos (inuits?) are very mongoloid looking (actually they ARE)

im not too sure about the russin imbreeding though
alot of austronoid people have alot of body hair genetically
it doesnt have to be a caucasian influence

either way, theres too many different speculations on the origins of the ainu people so who knows which theory is correct shrug.gif
agrees wid miss bubbles. biggthumpup.gif

too many theories & speculations & not enough genetic study.
bubbles20
QUOTE (MightyCrown @ Mar 23 2006, 09:22 PM) *
If you meet a few japanese who looks quite european, its because they probably are part european to some degree.


i disagree icon_neutral.gif
just because a japanese doesnt look like the stereotypical tyep, does NOT mean that they have european ancestry at all icon_neutral.gif

QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 23 2006, 09:22 PM) *
too many theories & speculations & not enough genetic study.


very true beerchug.gif
juwanFromTaiwan
How so? Polynesian Islands are thousands of miles further down into the South East Pacific far from Japan.. you mean like a Guam or Micronesia right?
QUOTE (gangi788 @ Mar 23 2006, 03:01 PM) *
Japanese people do not look caucasian. They are too small and short for one thing. Some Japanese do look Polynesian though or maybe Philipino. No surprise since they're near the Polynesian islands.
MightyCrown
QUOTE (bubbles20 @ Mar 24 2006, 11:34 AM) *
i disagree icon_neutral.gif
just because a japanese doesnt look like the stereotypical tyep, does NOT mean that they have european ancestry at all icon_neutral.gif
I didnt say in all cases. Yes, you are also correct. But the history of European migrants in Japan of the 19th and early 20th century is not well known outside Japan i think. But it is historical fact, and is one legitimate explanation of why a few rare Japanese looks unmistakeably European. This and the post-war American presence are the two biggest contributors. As i explained, most foreigners look at a euro-looking japanese, and they either think they are half-american because of the postwar US military situation (which is a reasonable assumption). Or they imagine they are being scientific by picking up that "ainu=protocaucasian" colonial stuff from the 19 century European imperial period (which is problematic). In any case, its a good idea at least to first see thousands of Japanese faces every day, every year, in your relatives, friends, and millions of strangers faces, at work, school, shopping, all over the place, all the time, before you make any bold generalistic statements about Japanese "racial origins". Watching some Japanese faces in movies, exchange students and tourists really arent enough.. Though, yes its not always absolutely clear. Even the modern archaeolgists and specialists debate this stuff at their conferences without always agreeing with each other. whatever. icon_rolleyes.gif
blob
What's the population size of the Ainus in Japan?
MightyCrown
1807 = 26,256

1822 = 23,563

1854 = 17,810

1873 = 16,272

1903 = 17,783

1931 = 15,969

According to a study done Heisei 5, the Ainu general population in Hokkaidou Prefecture was 23,830, and another study done Heisei 11, in 73 municipalities out of 7755 households, the general Ainu population was 23,767. Thats those who identified as Ainu in the study. Keep in mind that since identity is a matter of choice, there are also those who also choose not to be identified as "Ainu", because they are mixed, moved around, or whatever, so the numbers are not always exact, and can vary and change, depending on how one defines "Ainu".

here is from the Hokkaidou Prefectural Website investigating details of Ainu population, lifestyle, education, industry, businesses, etc.
http://www.pref.hokkaido.jp/kseikatu/ks-so...u/jittai11.html
Jagger
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 23 2006, 07:56 PM) *
i agree. look at miss japan. she looks halfie to me but she's 100% full japanese.



she could be ainu. she's GORGEOUS!

I thought that was an Indian girl, until you said she was Japanese.
Najjiah
okay... i googled ainu women & found this...




these women looks straight up malay to me.

this further confuses me as to WHAT ethnic origin the ainu are.

and here are some ainu men. they totally look aborigine to me...



and here is the 'official' explanation of what the ainu people of japan are.

The Ainu People of Japan - http://www.japan-101.com/culture/culture_ainu.htm

The Ainu (a word meaning "human" in the Ainu language), are an ethnic group indigenous to Hokkaido and the northern part of Honshu in Northern Japan, as well as the Kurile Islands and the southern half of Sakhalin Island. There are over 150,000 Ainu today, however the exact figure is not known as many Ainu hide their origins or in many cases are not even aware of them, their parents having kept it from them so as to avoid racism. They may have arrived in the Japanese islands at about the same time as the majority Japanese. However their origin is a source of much scholarly debate at present.

In ancient times they were fierce fighters, able to offer a stout resistance to the better armed. As the Japanese moved north and took control over their traditional lands, the Ainu often gave up without resistance, but there was occasionally a resistance as exemplified in wars in 1457, 1669, and 1789, which each time were lost by the Ainu. Japanese policies became increasingly aimed at reforming the Ainu in the Meiji period, outlawing their language and restricting them to farming on government provided plots. Ainu were also used in near-slavery conditions in the Japanese fishing industry.

The Ainu are in general somewhat taller than the Japanese, stoutly built, well proportioned, with dark-brown eyes, high cheek-bones, short broad noses and faces lacking length. The hairiness of the Ainu has been much exaggerated. They are not more hairy than many Europeans although much hairier than Japanese.

Traditional Ainu culture was quite different from Japanese culture. Never shaving after a certain age, the men have full beards and moustaches. Men and women alike cut their hair level with the shoulders at the sides of the head, but trim it semi circularly behind. The women tattoo their mouths, arms, and sometimes their foreheads, using for colour the smut deposited on a pot hung over a fire of birch bark. Their traditional dress is a robe spun from the bark of the elm tree. It has long sleeves, reaches nearly to the feet, is folded round the body, and is tied with a girdle of the same material. Women also wear an undergarment of Japanese cloth. In winter the skins of animals are worn, with leggings of deerskin and boots made from the skin of dogs or salmon. Both sexes are fond of earrings, which are said to have been made of grapevine in former times, but are now purchased from the Japanese, as also are bead necklaces called tamasay, which the women prize highly. Their food is meat, whenever they can procure it -- the flesh of the bear, the fox, the wolf, the badger, the ox or the horse -- fish, fowl, millet, vegetables, herbs, and roots. They never eat raw fish or flesh, but always either boil or roast it. Their habitations are reed-thatched huts, the largest 20 ft. square, without partitions and having a fireplace in the centre. There is no chimney, but only a hole at the angle of the roof; there is one window on the eastern side and there are two doors. Public buildings do not exist, neither inns, meeting-places, nor temples. The furniture of their dwellings is exceedingly scanty. Instead of using chairs or tables, they sit on the floor, which is covered with two layers of mats, one of rush, the other of flag; and for beds they spread planks, hanging mats around them on poles, and employing skins for coverlets. The men use chop-sticks and moustache-lifters when eating; the women have wooden spoons.

There is no historic Ainu literature in the written sense, but there is a rich legacy of oral sagas, called Yukar. They believe there are many floating worlds and that "Ainu Mosir", or the land of the humans (as opposed to "Kamui Mosir", the land of the gods), rests on the back of a fish whose movements cause earthquakes. The Ainu believe that everything in nature has a "kamui" (spirit or god) on the inside. They have no priests by profession. The village chief performs whatever religious ceremonies are necessary; ceremonies are confined to making libations of wine, uttering short prayers, and offering willow sticks with wooden shavings attached to them. The Ainu people give thanks to the gods before eating and pray to the deity of fire in time of sickness. They believe their spirits are immortal, and that their spirits will be rewarded hereafter in heaven or punished in hell, both of which places are beneath the earth, hell being the land of volcanoes.

The Ainu are now governed by Japanese laws and judged by Japanese tribunals, but in former times their affairs were administered by hereditary chiefs, three in each village, and for administrative purposes the country was divided into three districts, Saru, Usu and Ishikari, which were under the ultimate control of Saru, though the relations between their respective inhabitants were not close and intermarriages were avoided. The functions of judge were not entrusted to these chiefs; an indefinite number of a community's members sat in judgment upon its criminals. Capital punishment did not exist, nor was imprisonment resorted to, beating being considered a sufficient and final penalty, except in the case of murder, when the nose and ears of the assassin were cut off or the tendons of his feet severed. Intermarriages between Japanese and Ainu are not infrequent, and at Sambutsu especially, on the eastern coast, many children of such marriages may be seen.

Modern debate on the origins of the Ainu generally considers them Mongoloid, not Caucasian or proto-Caucasian as held earlier. Some consider them Northern Caucasian along with the Ryukyu of the Ryukyu Islands, while the Japanese are believed to be Southern Mongolian. Recent genetic and morphological studies claim similarities exist between the Ainu and Japanese.


blob
Interesting...

but not enough to make me believe anything embarassedlaugh.gif
MightyCrown
All you ever wanted to know about the Ainu ethnicity of Japan, basic introduction, tons of interesting information in several booklets or a CD rom, many pictures, audio and visual educational materials, made with support from the Hokkaidou Prefectural government and the direct cooperation from the Ainu people themselves.

http://www.pref.hokkaido.jp/kseikatu/ks-am.../hp/05_005.html
blob
^ Thanks...it's in Japanese though.
MightyCrown
Ok try this. I think there is English in here. Its from the "Ainu Ethnicity Museum" in Hokkaidou, which directly includes the Ainu people's point of view about themselves in their historical information and cultural presentations. They even talk about social problems too. Dont just rely on those foreigner misinterpretations from western websites. icon_confused.gif

See in here for more: http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/index.html

----------
The Ainu People

"Ainu" means "human." The Ainu people regard things useful to them or beyond their control as "kamuy"(gods). In daily life, they prayed to and performed various ceremonies for the gods. These gods include : "nature" gods, such as of fire, water, wind and thunder ; "animal" gods, such as of bears, foxes, spotted owls and gram-puses ; "plant" gods, such as of aconite, mush-room and mugwort ; "object" gods, such as of boats and pots ; and gods which protect houses, gods of mountains and gods of lakes. The word "Ainu" refers to the opposite of these gods.

Origin

Scholars have advocated various theories about the origin of the Ainu people. The theories include the Caucasoid (Caucasian) Theory, the Mongoloid Theory, the Oceania Race Theory, the Old Asian Race Theory, and the Solitary Race Theory. Some scholars have recently advocated the following hypothesis into which the Mongoloid Theory has developed. Mongoloid peoples once were of two types : Southern Mongoloid and Northern Mongoloid. Before the Jomon Period (several tens of thousands of years ago), the Southern Mongoloid started moving northward and settled the Japanese archipelago, including Okinawa, over a long period of time. Later, the Southern Mongoloid played a major role in the Jomon Period throughout Japan. However, in the Yayoi and Tumulus Periods, the Northern Mongoloid came across the sea to Japan in great numbers. The ethnic Japanese (non-Ainu) are the people who have evolved rapidly through the strong influences of these migratory processes. On the other hand, the Ainu in Hokkaido and the Tohoku region and the Ryukyu people in Okinawa are the ones who have hardly affected by this process.

History

About 300 B.C., Honshu (Japan's mainland) experienced the Yayoi Period. Between the Yayoi and Muromachi Periods, Hokkaido experienced periods of earthenware cultures, such as the Zoku-Jomon Period, the Satsumon Period, and the Okhotsk Culture.

The "Ainu Culture" extended from about 1400 to the early 1700 s. According to one theory, the Satsumon Culture developed into the Ainu Culture through the influence of the Okhotsk Culture.

However, this theory is not a proven one. In the mid-1400 s, the Japanese extended their influence over southern Hokkaido, primarily Esashi and Matsumae. Later, they came to op-press the Ainu. To resist the oppression by the Japanese, the Ainu waged the Battle of Kosyamain in 1457, the Battle of Syaksyain in 1669, and the Battle of Kunasiri-Menasi in 1789. The Ainu lost each time. After losing the Battle of Kunasiri-Menasi in particular, the Ainu fell completely under the control of the Japanese.

They remained oppressed and exploited by the Japanese until the Meiji era. In the Meiji era, under the government policy of assimilation, the Ainu were prohibited from observing their daily customs. Given the status of former aborigines, the Ainu were forced to abide by Japanese daily customs. In 1899, the Hokkaido Aborigine Protection Act was passed. The act primarily aimed to provide relief for the Ainu and help them become engaged in agriculture. However, the act designated the Ainu as "former aborigines" and clarified the distinction between the Japanese and the Ainu.

In the late Meiji era, with an increasing number of Japanese colonizing Hokkaido from Honshu, the oppression and exploitation of the Ainu was replaced by discrimination against them. Discrimination against the Ainu still remains today and has become a major social problem.

At the Hokkaido Ainu Convention in Shizunai, Hokkaido, in 1946, the Hokkaido Ainu Association was established primarily to provide higher education and collaborate in the construction of social welfare facilities. In 1961, the association changed its name to the Hokkaido Utari Association. The association is actively engaged tackling in various problems regarding the Ainu. In 1984, the Hokkaido Utari Association resolved that the Government should enact the New Ainu Law (tentative name), a new law which replaces the current "Hokkaido Aborigine Protection Act." Since then, the association has been conducting an active campaign to demand that the national government enact the New Ainu Law as soon as possible. Furthermore, these days, various activities are being vigorously promoted to revive the Ainu language and to preserve and maintain Ainu culture, such as traditional dancing and various ceremonies. Ainu language classes are being held in various parts of Hokkaido. Moreover, associations to preserve traditional dancing have been organized to revive and conduct ceremonies such as iyomante and chipsanke.

Population

Ainu who lived in Hokkaido, the Kurile Islands and Sakhalin were called "Hokkaido Ainu", "Kurile Ainu" and "Sakhalin Ainu"respectively. Most Ainu now live in Hokkaido. It has been confirmed that a few Ainu people now live in Sakhalin. The census of the Ainu was started by the Japanese in the 1800 s for various purposes, e.g. for putting them to work. The Ainu population from 1807 to 1931 varied as follows :

1807 : 26,256

1822 : 23,563

1854 : 17,810

1873 : 16,272

1903 : 17,783

1931 : 15,969

These figures (estimated ones) show that the population decreased particularly sharply from 1822 to 1854. The reasons for the decrease were, among others, the spread through the Ainu population of such diseases as smallpox, measles, cholera, tuberculosis and venereal diseases and the breakup of families due to forced labor.

According to a current survey conducted by the Hokkaido Government in 1984, the Ainu population of Hokkaido then was 24, 381.
----------

I find the best, most detailed, up to date facts are only in Japanese. The English translations are ok, but sometimes they are a bit off or lack much details.

Anyway, good luck! biggthumpup.gif
three_kingdoms
QUOTE (MightyCrown @ Mar 23 2006, 06:22 PM) *
If you meet a few japanese who looks quite european, its because they probably are part european to some degree. But this is traced to MODERN recent immigration of some europeans to japan during the Meiji, Taisho, Showa periods from the 19th-20th centuries, when Japan rapidly opened, modernized itself, and imported many Western materials. During this time opportunistic Westerners came to Japan to profit from the newly growing economy. Some of this Westerners stayed in Japan permanently.

This has NOTHING to do with ainu and ancient archaology. Since the 19th century, there were Russian fishermen who settled in northern japanese towns in Hokkaido and intermarried, as well as French, Jewish and Germans in Kansai, or some Spanish and Dutch in Kyushu (though this is even older back to 16th-17th-18th centuries), and even decendents of 19th century American whalers in some pacific islands owned by Japan. These peoples descendants were usually assimilated into Japanese society. Though they personally kept their family records, diaries, photographs of their european ancestors from the past. But they are a small minority of Japanese, and not great in numbers.

Btw, if you didnt already know, that ridiculous theory that ainu are supposed to be "proto-caucasian" was imagined by White Western anthorpologists at the height of the European Imperialism and Colonialism era, so its theoretically connected to Eurocentric racist interpretation of non-white people. Those theories were developed by White racist anthroplogists who treated Asians, Native Americans, and Africans like cheap guinea pigs, by taking lots of nude pictures of Asians, measuring Asian skull sizes, measuring their Asian vagina and penis, dubious White "scientists" touching many Asian penises to check the thickness (talk about a supressed homoerotic racial fetish or what!), and basically treating Asians as less than civilized fodder for their scientific "curiosity". It was disgusting. This was standard anthropolgical practice back then, and connected to such thories that eventually influenced the infamous eugenics and racial supremacy theories in the late 19th century and early 20th century.

So if you are Asian or non-white, i hope you drop that "ainu=proto-caucasian" nonsense please. As mother always says: Dont put anything into your mouth unless you know where its been. That includes old racist theories invented by 19th century western Colonial anthropolgists.


hey this is one of the best posts i've read in a while! biggthumpup.gif
soltung
the results of this study may shed some light on origins of ainu people (they are descendants of jomon)...



>Dual origins of the Japanese

Very interesting paper on Y-chromosomal variation in Japan and neighboring regions. Haplogroup frequencies:


Japan 259; northeast Asia (NEA) 441; Southeast Asia (SEA) 683; central Asia (CAS) 419; south Asia (SAS) 496; Oceania (OCE) 209.

Interesting quote, which again confirms the East Asian origin of the NO clade:

Haplogroup N is the fourth most common haplogroup in Japan (1.5%) and is found only among mainland Japanese (Table 1). Clades N and O share a common node in the Y chromosome tree that is defined by marker M214. While NO* chromosomes are extremely rare, they are found in Japan at higher frequency than elsewhere in our survey, albeit only at 2.3%.


Also of interest is the detection of Caucasoid haplogroups I,J,G,R in some of the studied populations. In some cases these may represent recent admixture, but they may also represent older events, especially in the case of haplogroups J,G which are rare in most former European colonial powers.

J Hum Genet. 2005 Nov 18; [Epub ahead of print]

Dual origins of the Japanese: common ground for hunter-gatherer and farmer Y chromosomes.


Hammer MF, Karafet TM, Park H, Omoto K, Harihara S, Stoneking M, Horai S.

>>Historic Japanese culture evolved from at least two distinct migrations that originated on the Asian continent. Hunter-gatherers arrived before land bridges were submerged after the last glacial maximum (>12,000 years ago) and gave rise to the Jomon culture, and the Yayoi migration brought wet rice agriculture from Korea beginning ~2,300 years ago. A set of 81 Y chromosome single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) was used to trace the origins of Paleolithic and Neolithic components of the Japanese paternal gene pool, and to determine the relative contribution of Jomon and Yayoi Y chromosome lineages to modern Japanese. Our global sample consisted of >2,500 males from 39 Asian populations, including six populations sampled from across the Japanese archipelago. Japanese populations were characterized by the presence of two major (D and O) and two minor (C and N) clades of Y chromosomes, each with several sub-lineages. Haplogroup D chromosomes were present at 34.7% and were distributed in a U-shaped pattern with the highest frequency in the northern Ainu and southern Ryukyuans. In contrast, haplogroup O lineages (51.8%) were distributed in an inverted U-shaped pattern with a maximum frequency on Kyushu. Coalescent analyses of Y chromosome short tandem repeat diversity indicated that haplogroups D and C began their expansions in Japan ~20,000 and ~12,000 years ago, respectively, while haplogroup O-47z began its expansion only ~4,000 years ago. We infer that these patterns result from separate and distinct genetic contributions from both the Jomon and the Yayoi cultures to modern Japanese, with varying levels of admixture between these two populations across the archipelago. The results also support the hypothesis of a Central Asian origin of Jomonese ancestors, and a Southeast Asian origin of the ancestors of the Yayoi, contra previous models based on morphological and genetic evidence.
azndood
QUOTE (Najjiah @ Mar 23 2006, 05:31 PM) *
ok, on with the ainu chat. my theory is that the earliest inhabitants of japan were probably aboriginals from the pacfic islands. observe the kinky hair and darker skin of the old man with the sword & afro. then eventually... the european caucasians(?) came in from russia via the berring sea & bred with the aboriginals. hence the lighter skin, hairier than normal bodies, and taller frame. it created a whole new race that is what the ainu is today. they are CLEARLY not mongoloid. rather... if u observe, they r more eskimo/pacific islander looking.


modern japanese is a mix of jomon and yayoi

but even the jomon are not homogeneous
the jomon derive from many paleotype peoples
1) 20,000 years ago when the islands of japan broke off when the ice age ended, the people that probably inhabited japan were of a paleosiberian type
2) Austronesian immigration spread out around the ring of fire settling in the pacific islands and including southern half of korea and the japanese islets.


this is why you get the ainu that may look 1)so called "proto causcoid" and 2) the malay stock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people
read that at least ^

and euro looking japanese coming from european immigrants in the 19th & 20th century is just bogus
the europeans today make up less than 1% of the total japanese population. For your average japanese to display european traits and attribute that to recent immigration wouldn't make sense. It takes at least hundreds and thousands of people to intermix in order to alter the gene pool of a whole race, otherwise whatever few occurences of interbreeding that may happen will be eventually washed out. What I'm saying is whatever euro traits modern japanese have can't be attributed to recent occurences, the supposedly euro traits are uniquely their own.
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