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Just who are the Japanese? Where did they come from and when? The answers are difficult to come by, though not impossible—the real problem is that the Japanese themselves may not want to know.

By Jared Diamond

DISCOVER Vol. 19 No. 06 | June 1998 | Ancient Life

Unearthing the origins of the Japanese is a much harder task than you might guess. Among world powers today, the Japanese are the most distinctive in their culture and environment. The origins of their language are one of the most disputed questions of linguistics. These questions are central to the self-image of the Japanese and to how they are viewed by other peoples. Japan’s rising dominance and touchy relations with its neighbors make it more important than ever to strip away myths and find answers.

The search for answers is difficult because the evidence is so conflicting. On the one hand, the Japanese people are biologically undistinctive, being very similar in appearance and genes to other East Asians, especially to Koreans. As the Japanese like to stress, they are culturally and biologically rather homogeneous, with the exception of a distinctive people called the Ainu on Japan’s northernmost island of Hokkaido. Taken together, these facts seem to suggest that the Japanese reached Japan only recently from the Asian mainland, too recently to have evolved differences from their mainland cousins, and displaced the Ainu, who represent the original inhabitants. But if that were true, you might expect the Japanese language to show close affinities to some mainland language, just as English is obviously closely related to other Germanic languages (because Anglo-Saxons from the continent conquered England as recently as the sixth century a.d.). How can we resolve this contradiction between Japan’s presumably ancient language and the evidence for recent origins?

Archeologists have proposed four conflicting theories. Most popular in Japan is the view that the Japanese gradually evolved from ancient Ice Age people who occupied Japan long before 20,000 b.c. Also widespread in Japan is a theory that the Japanese descended from horse-riding Asian nomads who passed through Korea to conquer Japan in the fourth century, but who were themselves—emphatically—not Koreans. A theory favored by many Western archeologists and Koreans, and unpopular in some circles in Japan, is that the Japanese are descendants of immigrants from Korea who arrived with rice-paddy agriculture around 400 b.c. Finally, the fourth theory holds that the peoples named in the other three theories could have mixed to form the modern Japanese.

When similar questions of origins arise about other peoples, they can be discussed dispassionately. That is not so for the Japanese. Until 1946, Japanese schools taught a myth of history based on the earliest recorded Japanese chronicles, which were written in the eighth century. They describe how the sun goddess Amaterasu, born from the left eye of the creator god Izanagi, sent her grandson Ninigi to Earth on the Japanese island of Kyushu to wed an earthly deity. Ninigi’s great-grandson Jimmu, aided by a dazzling sacred bird that rendered his enemies helpless, became the first emperor of Japan in 660 b.c. To fill the gap between 660 b.c. and the earliest historically documented Japanese monarchs, the chronicles invented 13 other equally fictitious emperors. Before the end of World War II, when Emperor Hirohito finally announced that he was not of divine descent, Japanese archeologists and historians had to make their interpretations conform to this chronicle account. Unlike American archeologists, who acknowledge that ancient sites in the United States were left by peoples (Native Americans) unrelated to most modern Americans, Japanese archeologists believe all archeological deposits in Japan, no matter how old, were left by ancestors of the modern Japanese. Hence archeology in Japan is supported by astronomical budgets, employs up to 50,000 field-workers each year, and draws public attention to a degree inconceivable anywhere else in the world.

Why do they care so much? Unlike most other non-European countries, Japan preserved its independence and culture while emerging from isolation to create an industrialized society in the late nineteenth century. It was a remarkable achievement. Now the Japanese people are understandably concerned about maintaining their traditions in the face of massive Western cultural influences. They want to believe that their distinctive language and culture required uniquely complex developmental processes. To acknowledge a relationship of the Japanese language to any other language seems to constitute a surrender of cultural identity.

What makes it especially difficult to discuss Japanese archeology dispassionately is that Japanese interpretations of the past affect present behavior. Who among East Asian peoples brought culture to whom? Who has historical claims to whose land? These are not just academic questions. For instance, there is much archeological evidence that people and material objects passed between Japan and Korea in the period a.d. 300 to 700. Japanese interpret this to mean that Japan conquered Korea and brought Korean slaves and artisans to Japan; Koreans believe instead that Korea conquered Japan and that the founders of the Japanese imperial family were Korean.

Thus, when Japan sent troops to Korea and annexed it in 1910, Japanese military leaders celebrated the annexation as the restoration of the legitimate arrangement of antiquity. For the next 35 years, Japanese occupation forces tried to eradicate Korean culture and to replace the Korean language with Japanese in schools. The effort was a consequence of a centuries-old attitude of disdain. Nose tombs in Japan still contain 20,000 noses severed from Koreans and brought home as trophies of a sixteenth-century Japanese invasion. Not surprisingly, many Koreans loathe the Japanese, and their loathing is returned with contempt.

What really was the legitimate arrangement of antiquity? Today, Japan and Korea are both economic powerhouses, facing each other across the Korea Strait and viewing each other through colored lenses of false myths and past atrocities. It bodes ill for the future of East Asia if these two great peoples cannot find common ground. To do so, they will need a correct understanding of who the Japanese people really are.

Japan’s unique culture began with its unique geogra-phy and environment. It is, for comparison, far more isolated than Britain, which lies only 22 miles from the French coast. Japan lies 110 miles from the closest point of the Asian mainland (South Korea), 190 miles from mainland Russia, and 480 miles from mainland China. Climate, too, sets Japan apart. Its rainfall, up to 120 inches a year, makes it the wettest temperate country in the world. Unlike the winter rains prevailing over much of Europe, Japan’s rains are concentrated in the summer growing season, giving it the highest plant productivity of any nation in the temperate zones. While 80 percent of Japan’s land consists of mountains unsuitable for agriculture and only 14 percent is farmland, an average square mile of that farmland is so fertile that it supports eight times as many people as does an average square mile of British farmland. Japan’s high rainfall also ensures a quickly regenerated forest after logging. Despite thousands of years of dense human occupation, Japan still offers visitors a first impression of greenness because 70 percent of its land is still covered by forest.

Japanese forest composition varies with latitude and altitude: evergreen leafy forest in the south at low altitude, deciduous leafy forest in central Japan, and coniferous forest in the north and high up. For prehistoric humans, the deciduous leafy forest was the most productive, providing abundant edible nuts such as walnuts, chestnuts, horse chestnuts, acorns, and beechnuts. Japanese waters are also outstandingly productive. The lakes, rivers, and surrounding seas teem with salmon, trout, tuna, sardines, mackerel, herring, and cod. Today, Japan is the largest consumer of fish in the world. Japanese waters are also rich in clams, oysters, and other shellfish, crabs, shrimp, crayfish, and edible seaweeds. That high productivity was a key to Japan’s prehistory.

From southwest to northeast, the four main Japanese islands are Kyushu, Shikoku, Honshu, and Hokkaido. Until the late nineteenth century, Hokkaido and northern Honshu were inhabited mainly by the Ainu, who lived as hunter-gatherers with limited agriculture, while the people we know today as Japanese occupied the rest of the main islands.

In appearance, of course, the Japanese are very similar to other East Asians. As for the Ainu, however, their distinctive appearance has prompted more to be written about their origins and relationships than about any other single people on Earth. Partly because Ainu men have luxuriant beards and the most profuse body hair of any people, they are often classified as Caucasoids (so-called white people) who somehow migrated east through Eurasia to Japan. In their overall genetic makeup, though, the Ainu are related to other East Asians, including the Japanese and Koreans. The distinctive appearance and hunter-gatherer lifestyle of the Ainu, and the undistinctive appearance and the intensive agricultural lifestyle of the Japanese, are frequently taken to suggest the straightforward interpretation that the Ainu are descended from Japan’s original hunter-gatherer inhabitants and the Japanese are more recent invaders from the Asian mainland.

But this view is difficult to reconcile with the distinctiveness of the Japanese language. Everyone agrees that Japanese does not bear a close relation to any other language in the world. Most scholars consider it to be an isolated member of Asia’s Altaic language family, which consists of Turkic, Mongolian, and Tungusic languages. Korean is also often considered to be an isolated member of this family, and within the family Japanese and Korean may be more closely related to each other than to other Altaic languages. However, the similarities between Japanese and Korean are confined to general grammatical features and about 15 percent of their basic vocabularies, rather than the detailed shared features of grammar and vocabulary that link, say, French to Spanish; they are more different from each other than Russian is from English.

Since languages change over time, the more similar two languages are, the more recently they must have diverged. By counting common words and features, linguists can estimate how long ago languages diverged, and such estimates suggest that Japanese and Korean parted company at least 4,000 years ago. As for the Ainu language, its origins are thoroughly in doubt; it may not have any special relationship to Japanese.

After genes and language, a third type of evidence about Japanese origins comes from ancient portraits. The earliest preserved likenesses of Japan’s inhabitants are statues called haniwa, erected outside tombs around 1,500 years ago. Those statues unmistakably depict East Asians. They do not resemble the heavily bearded Ainu. If the Japanese did replace the Ainu in Japan south of Hokkaido, that replacement must have occurred before a.d. 500.

Our earliest written information about Japan comes from Chinese chronicles, because China developed literacy long before Korea or Japan. In early Chinese accounts of various peoples referred to as Eastern Barbarians, Japan is described under the name Wa, whose inhabitants were said to be divided into more than a hundred quarreling states. Only a few Korean or Japanese inscriptions before a.d. 700 have been preserved, but extensive chronicles were written in 712 and 720 in Japan and later in Korea. Those reveal massive transmission of culture to Japan from Korea itself, and from China via Korea. The chronicles are also full of accounts of Koreans in Japan and of Japanese in Korea—interpreted by Japanese or Korean historians, respectively, as evidence of Japanese conquest of Korea or the reverse.

The ancestors of the Japanese, then, seem to have reached Japan before they had writing. Their biology suggests a recent arrival, but their language suggests arrival long ago. To resolve this paradox, we must now turn to archeology.

The seas that surround much of Japan and coastal East Asia are shallow enough to have been dry land during the ice ages, when much of the ocean water was locked up in glaciers and sea level lay at about 500 feet below its present measurement. Land bridges connected Japan’s main islands to one another, to the Russian mainland, and to South Korea. The mammals walking out to Japan included not only the ancestors of modern Japan’s bears and monkeys but also ancient humans, long before boats had been invented. Stone tools indicate human arrival as early as half a million years ago.

Around 13,000 years ago, as glaciers melted rapidly all over the world, conditions in Japan changed spectacularly for the better, as far as humans were concerned. Temperature, rainfall, and humidity all increased, raising plant productivity to present high levels. Deciduous leafy forests full of nut trees, which had been confined to southern Japan during the ice ages, expanded northward at the expense of coniferous forest, thereby replacing a forest type that had been rather sterile for humans with a much more productive one. The rise in sea level severed the land bridges, converted Japan from a piece of the Asian continent to a big archipelago, turned what had been a plain into rich shallow seas, and created thousands of miles of productive new coastline with innumerable islands, bays, tidal flats, and estuaries, all teeming with seafood.

That end of the Ice Age was accompanied by the first of the two most decisive changes in Japanese history: the invention of pottery. In the usual experience of archeologists, inventions flow from mainlands to islands, and small peripheral societies aren’t supposed to contribute revolutionary advances to the rest of the world. It therefore astonished archeologists to discover that the world’s oldest known pottery was made in Japan 12,700 years ago. For the first time in human experience, people had watertight containers readily available in any desired shape. With their new ability to boil or steam food, they gained access to abundant resources that had previously been difficult to use: leafy vegetables, which would burn or dry out if cooked on an open fire; shellfish, which could now be opened easily; and toxic foods like acorns, which could now have their toxins boiled out. Soft-boiled foods could be fed to small children, permitting earlier weaning and more closely spaced babies. Toothless old people, the repositories of information in a preliterate society, could now be fed and live longer. All those momentous consequences of pottery triggered a population explosion, causing Japan’s population to climb from an estimated few thousand to a quarter of a million.

The prejudice that islanders are supposed to learn from superior continentals wasn’t the sole reason that record-breaking Japanese pottery caused such a shock. In addition, those first Japanese potters were clearly hunter-gatherers, which also violated established views. Usually only sedentary societies own pottery: what nomad wants to carry heavy, fragile pots, as well as weapons and the baby, whenever time comes to shift camp? Most sedentary societies elsewhere in the world arose only with the adoption of agriculture. But the Japanese environment is so productive that people could settle down and make pottery while still living by hunting and gathering. Pottery helped those Japanese hunter-gatherers exploit their environment’s rich food resources more than 10,000 years before intensive agriculture reached Japan.

Much ancient Japanese pottery was decorated by rolling or pressing a cord on soft clay. Because the Japanese word for cord marking is jomon, the term Jomon is applied to the pottery itself, to the ancient Japanese people who made it, and to that whole period in Japanese prehistory beginning with the invention of pottery and ending only 10,000 years later. The earliest Jomon pottery, of 12,700 years ago, comes from Kyushu, the southernmost Japanese island. Thereafter, pottery spread north, reaching the vicinity of modern Tokyo around 9,500 years ago and the northernmost island of Hokkaido by 7,000 years ago. Pottery’s northward spread followed that of deciduous forest rich in nuts, suggesting that the climate-related food explosion was what permitted sedentary living.

How did Jomon people make their living? We have abundant evidence from the garbage they left behind at hundreds of thousands of excavated archeological sites all over Japan. They apparently enjoyed a well-balanced diet, one that modern nutritionists would applaud.

One major food category was nuts, especially chestnuts and walnuts, plus horse chestnuts and acorns leached or boiled free of their bitter poisons. Nuts could be harvested in autumn in prodigious quantities, then stored for the winter in underground pits up to six feet deep and six feet wide. Other plant foods included berries, fruits, seeds, leaves, shoots, bulbs, and roots. In all, archeologists sifting through Jomon garbage have identified 64 species of edible plants.

Then as now, Japan’s inhabitants were among the world’s leading consumers of seafood. They harpooned tuna in the open ocean, killed seals on the beaches, and exploited seasonal runs of salmon in the rivers. They drove dolphins into shallow water and clubbed or speared them, just as Japanese hunters do today. They netted diverse fish, captured them in weirs, and caught them on fishhooks carved from deer antlers. They gathered shellfish, crabs, and seaweed in the intertidal zone or dove for them. (Jomon skeletons show a high incidence of abnormal bone growth in the ears, often observed in divers today.) Among land animals hunted, wild boar and deer were the most common prey. They were caught in pit traps, shot with bows and arrows, and run down with dogs.

The most debated question about Jomon subsistence concerns the possible contribution of agriculture. Many Jomon sites contain remains of edible plants that are native to Japan as wild species but also grown as crops today, including the adzuki bean and green gram bean. The remains from Jomon times do not clearly show features distinguishing the crops from their wild ancestors, so we do not know whether these plants were gathered in the wild or grown intentionally. Sites also have debris of edible or useful plant species not native to Japan, such as hemp, which must have been introduced from the Asian mainland. Around 1000 b.c., toward the end of the Jomon period, a few grains of rice, barley, and millet, the staple cereals of East Asia, began to appear. All these tantalizing clues make it likely that Jomon people were starting to practice some slash-and-burn agriculture, but evidently in a casual way that made only a minor contribution to their diet.

Archeologists studying Jomon hunter-gatherers have found not only hard-to-carry pottery (including pieces up to three feet tall) but also heavy stone tools, remains of substantial houses that show signs of repair, big village sites of 50 or more dwellings, and cemeteries—all further evidence that the Jomon people were sedentary rather than nomadic. Their stay-at-home lifestyle was made possible by the diversity of resource-rich habitats available within a short distance of one central site: inland forests, rivers, seashores, bays, and open oceans. Jomon people lived at some of the highest population densities ever estimated for hunter-gatherers, especially in central and northern Japan, with their nut-rich forests, salmon runs, and productive seas. The estimate of the total population of Jomon Japan at its peak is 250,000—trivial, of course, compared with today, but impressive for hunter-gatherers.

With all this stress on what Jomon people did have, we need to be clear as well about what they didn’t have. Their lives were very different from those of contemporary societies only a few hundred miles away in mainland China and Korea. Jomon people had no intensive agriculture. Apart from dogs (and perhaps pigs), they had no domestic animals. They had no metal tools, no writing, no weaving, and little social stratification into chiefs and commoners. Regional variation in pottery styles suggests little progress toward political centralization and unification.

Despite its distinctiveness even in East Asia at that time, Jomon Japan was not completely isolated. Pottery, obsidian, and fishhooks testify to some Jomon trade with Korea, Russia, and Okinawa—as does the arrival of Asian mainland crops. Compared with later eras, though, that limited trade with the outside world had little influence on Jomon society. Jomon Japan was a miniature conservative universe that changed surprisingly little over 10,000 years.

To place Jomon Japan in a contemporary perspective, let us remind ourselves of what human societies were like on the Asian mainland in 400 b.c., just as the Jomon lifestyle was about to come to an end. China consisted of kingdoms with rich elites and poor commoners; the people lived in walled towns, and the country was on the verge of political unification and would soon become the world’s largest empire. Beginning around 6500 b.c., China had developed intensive agriculture based on millet in the north and rice in the south; it had domestic pigs, chickens, and water buffalo. The Chinese had had writing for at least 900 years, metal tools for at least 1,500 years, and had just invented the world’s first cast iron. Those developments were also spreading to Korea, which itself had had agriculture for several thousand years (including rice since at least 2100 b.c.) and metal since 1000 b.c.

With all these developments going on for thousands of years just across the Korea Strait from Japan, it might seem astonishing that in 400 b.c. Japan was still occupied by people who had some trade with Korea but remained preliterate stone-tool-using hunter-gatherers. Throughout human history, centralized states with metal weapons and armies supported by dense agricultural populations have consistently swept away sparser populations of hunter-gatherers. How did Jomon Japan survive so long?

To understand the answer to this paradox, we have to remember that until 400 b.c., the Korea Strait separated not rich farmers from poor hunter-gatherers, but poor farmers from rich hunter-gatherers. China itself and Jomon Japan were probably not in direct contact. Instead Japan’s trade contacts, such as they were, involved Korea. But rice had been domesticated in warm southern China and spread only slowly northward to much cooler Korea, because it took a long time to develop cold-resistant strains of rice. Early rice agriculture in Korea used dry-field methods rather than irrigated paddies and was not particularly productive. Hence early Korean agriculture could not compete with Jomon hunting and gathering. Jomon people themselves would have seen no advantage in adopting Korean agriculture, insofar as they were aware of its existence, and poor Korean farmers had no advantages that would let them force their way into Japan. As we shall see, the advantages finally reversed suddenly and dramatically.

More than 10,000 years after the invention of pottery and the subsequent Jomon population explosion, a second decisive event in Japanese history triggered a second population explosion. Around 400 b.c., a new lifestyle arrived from South Korea. This second transition poses in acute form our question about who the Japanese are. Does the transition mark the replacement of Jomon people with immigrants from Korea, ancestral to the modern Japanese? Or did Japan’s original Jomon inhabitants continue to occupy Japan while learning valuable new tricks?

The new mode of living appeared first on the north coast of Japan’s southwesternmost island, Kyushu, just across the Korea Strait from South Korea. There we find Japan’s first metal tools, of iron, and Japan’s first undisputed full-scale agriculture. That agriculture came in the form of irrigated rice fields, complete with canals, dams, banks, paddies, and rice residues revealed by archeological excavations. Archeologists term the new way of living Yayoi, after a district of Tokyo where in 1884 its characteristic pottery was first recognized. Unlike Jomon pottery, Yayoi pottery was very similar to contemporary South Korean pottery in shape. Many other elements of the new Yayoi culture were unmistakably Korean and previously foreign to Japan, including bronze objects, weaving, glass beads, and styles of tools and houses.

While rice was the most important crop, Yayoi farmers introduced 27 new to Japan, as well as unquestionably domesticated pigs. They may have practiced double cropping, with paddies irrigated for rice production in the summer, then drained for dry-land cultivation of millet, barley, and wheat in the winter. Inevitably, this highly productive system of intensive agriculture triggered an immediate population explosion in Kyushu, where archeologists have identified far more Yayoi sites than Jomon sites, even though the Jomon period lasted 14 times longer.

In virtually no time, Yayoi farming jumped from Kyushu to the adjacent main islands of Shikoku and Honshu, reaching the Tokyo area within 200 years, and the cold northern tip of Honshu (1,000 miles from the first Yayoi settlements on Kyushu) in another century. After briefly occupying northern Honshu, Yayoi farmers abandoned that area, presumably because rice farming could not compete with the Jomon hunter-gatherer life. For the next 2,000 years, northern Honshu remained a frontier zone, beyond which the northernmost Japanese island of Hokkaido and its Ainu hunter-gatherers were not even considered part of the Japanese state until their annexation in the nineteenth century.

It took several centuries for Yayoi Japan to show the first signs of social stratification, as reflected especially in cemeteries. After about 100 b.c., separate parts of cemeteries were set aside for the graves of what was evidently an emerging elite class, marked by luxury goods imported from China, such as beautiful jade objects and bronze mirrors. As the Yayoi population explosion continued, and as all the best swamps or irrigable plains suitable for wet rice agriculture began to fill up, the archeological evidence suggests that war became more and more frequent: that evidence includes mass production of arrowheads, defensive moats surrounding villages, and buried skeletons pierced by projectile points. These hallmarks of war in Yayoi Japan corroborate the earliest accounts of Japan in Chinese chronicles, which describe the land of Wa and its hundred little political units fighting one another.

In the period from a.d. 300 to 700, both archeological excavations and frustratingly ambiguous accounts in later chronicles let us glimpse dimly the emergence of a politically unified Japan. Before a.d. 300, elite tombs were small and exhibited a regional diversity of styles. Beginning around a.d. 300, increasingly enormous earth-mound tombs called kofun, in the shape of keyholes, were constructed throughout the former Yayoi area from Kyushu to North Honshu. Kofun are up to 1,500 feet long and more than 100 feet high, making them possibly the largest earth-mound tombs in the world. The prodigious amount of labor required to build them and the uniformity of their style across Japan imply powerful rulers who commanded a huge, politically unified labor force. Those kofun that have been excavated contain lavish burial goods, but excavation of the largest ones is still forbidden because they are believed to contain the ancestors of the Japanese imperial line. The visible evidence of political centralization that the kofun provide reinforces the accounts of kofun-era Japanese emperors written down much later in Japanese and Korean chronicles. Massive Korean influences on Japan during the kofun era—whether through the Korean conquest of Japan (the Korean view) or the Japanese conquest of Korea (the Japanese view)—were responsible for transmitting Buddhism, writing, horseback riding, and new ceramic and metallurgical techniques to Japan from the Asian mainland.

Finally, with the completion of Japan’s first chronicle in a.d. 712, Japan emerged into the full light of history. As of 712, the people inhabiting Japan were at last unquestionably Japanese, and their language (termed Old Japanese) was unquestionably ancestral to modern Japanese. Emperor Akihito, who reigns today, is the eighty-second direct descendant of the emperor under whom that first chronicle of a.d. 712 was written. He is traditionally considered the 125th direct descendant of the legendary first emperor, Jimmu, the great-great-great-grandson of the sun goddess Amaterasu.

Japanese culture underwent far more radical change in the 700 years of the Yayoi era than in the ten millennia of Jomon times. The contrast between Jomon stability (or conservatism) and radical Yayoi change is the most striking feature of Japanese history. Obviously, something momentous happened at 400 b.c. What was it? Were the ancestors of the modern Japanese the Jomon people, the Yayoi people, or a combination? Japan’s population increased by an astonishing factor of 70 during Yayoi times: What caused that change? A passionate debate has raged around three alternative hypotheses.

One theory is that Jomon hunter-gatherers themselves gradually evolved into the modern Japanese. Because they had already been living a settled existence in villages for thousands of years, they may have been preadapted to accepting agriculture. At the Yayoi transition, perhaps nothing more happened than that Jomon society received cold-resistant rice seeds and information about paddy irrigation from Korea, enabling it to produce more food and increase its numbers. This theory appeals to many modern Japanese because it minimizes the unwelcome contribution of Korean genes to the Japanese gene pool while portraying the Japanese people as uniquely Japanese for at least the past 12,000 years.

A second theory, unappealing to those Japanese who prefer the first theory, argues instead that the Yayoi transition represents a massive influx of immigrants from Korea, carrying Korean farming practices, culture, and genes. Kyushu would have seemed a paradise to Korean rice farmers, because it is warmer and swampier than Korea and hence a better place to grow rice. According to one estimate, Yayoi Japan received several million immigrants from Korea, utterly overwhelming the genetic contribution of Jomon people (thought to have numbered around 75,000 just before the Yayoi transition). If so, modern Japanese are descendants of Korean immigrants who developed a modified culture of their own over the last 2,000 years.

The last theory accepts the evidence for immigration from Korea but denies that it was massive. Instead, highly productive agriculture may have enabled a modest number of immigrant rice farmers to reproduce much faster than Jomon hunter-gatherers and eventually to outnumber them. Like the second theory, this theory considers modern Japanese to be slightly modified Koreans but dispenses with the need for large-scale immigration.

By comparison with similar transitions elsewhere in the world, the second or third theory seems to me more plausible than the first theory. Over the last 12,000 years, agriculture arose at not more than nine places on Earth, including China and the Fertile Crescent. Twelve thousand years ago, everybody alive was a hunter-gatherer; now almost all of us are farmers or fed by farmers. Farming spread from those few sites of origin mainly because farmers outbred hunters, developed more potent technology, and then killed the hunters or drove them off lands suitable for agriculture. In modern times European farmers thereby replaced native Californian hunters, aboriginal Australians, and the San people of South Africa. Farmers who used stone tools similarly replaced hunters prehistorically throughout Europe, Southeast Asia, and Indonesia. Korean farmers of 400 b.c. would have enjoyed a much larger advantage over Jomon hunters because the Koreans already possessed iron tools and a highly developed form of intensive agriculture.

Which of the three theories is correct for Japan? The only direct way to answer this question is to compare Jomon and Yayoi skeletons and genes with those of modern Japanese and Ainu. Measurements have now been made of many skeletons. In addition, within the last three years molecular geneticists have begun to extract dna from ancient human skeletons and compare the genes of Japan’s ancient and modern populations. Jomon and Yayoi skeletons, researchers find, are on the average readily distinguishable. Jomon people tended to be shorter, with relatively longer forearms and lower legs, more wide-set eyes, shorter and wider faces, and much more pronounced facial topography, with strikingly raised browridges, noses, and nose bridges. Yayoi people averaged an inch or two taller, with close-set eyes, high and narrow faces, and flat browridges and noses. Some skeletons of the Yayoi period were still Jomon-like in appearance, but that is to be expected by almost any theory of the Jomon-Yayoi transition. By the time of the kofun period, all Japanese skeletons except those of the Ainu form a homogeneous group, resembling modern Japanese and Koreans.

In all these respects, Jomon skulls differ from those of modern Japanese and are most similar to those of modern Ainu, while Yayoi skulls most resemble those of modern Japanese. Similarly, geneticists attempting to calculate the relative contributions of Korean-like Yayoi genes and Ainu-like Jomon genes to the modern Japanese gene pool have concluded that the Yayoi contribution was generally dominant. Thus, immigrants from Korea really did make a big contribution to the modern Japanese, though we cannot yet say whether that was because of massive immigration or else modest immigration amplified by a high rate of population increase. Genetic studies of the past three years have also at last resolved the controversy about the origins of the Ainu: they are the descendants of Japan’s ancient Jomon inhabitants, mixed with Korean genes of Yayoi colonists and of the modern Japanese.

Given the overwhelming advantage that rice agriculture gave Korean farmers, one has to wonder why the farmers achieved victory over Jomon hunters so suddenly, after making little headway in Japan for thousands of years. What finally tipped the balance and triggered the Yayoi transition was probably a combination of four developments: the farmers began raising rice in irrigated fields instead of in less productive dry fields; they developed rice strains that would grow well in a cool climate; their population expanded in Korea, putting pressure on Koreans to emigrate; and they invented iron tools that allowed them to mass-produce the wooden shovels, hoes, and other tools needed for rice-paddy agriculture. That iron and intensive farming reached Japan simultaneously is unlikely to have been a coincidence.

We have seen that the combined evidence of archeology, physical anthropology, and genetics supports the transparent interpretation for how the distinctive-looking Ainu and the undistinctive-looking Japanese came to share Japan: the Ainu are descended from Japan’s original inhabitants and the Japanese are descended from more recent arrivals. But that view leaves the problem of language unexplained. If the Japanese really are recent arrivals from Korea, you might expect the Japanese and Korean languages to be very similar. More generally, if the Japanese people arose recently from some mixture, on the island of Kyushu, of original Ainu-like Jomon inhabitants with Yayoi invaders from Korea, the Japanese language might show close affinities to both the Korean and Ainu languages. Instead, Japanese and Ainu have no demonstrable relationship, and the relationship between Japanese and Korean is distant. How could this be so if the mixing occurred a mere 2,400 years ago? I suggest the following resolution of this paradox: the languages of Kyushu’s Jomon residents and Yayoi invaders were quite different from the modern Ainu and Korean languages, respectively.

The Ainu language was spoken in recent times by the Ainu on the northern island of Hokkaido, so Hokkaido’s Jomon inhabitants probably also spoke an Ainu-like language. The Jomon inhabitants of Kyushu, however, surely did not. From the southern tip of Kyushu to the northern tip of Hokkaido, the Japanese archipelago is nearly 1,500 miles long. In Jomon times it supported great regional diversity of subsistence techniques and of pottery styles and was never unified politically. During the 10,000 years of Jomon occupation, Jomon people would have evolved correspondingly great linguistic diversity. In fact, many Japanese place-names on Hokkaido and northern Honshu include the Ainu words for river, nai or betsu, and for cape, shiri, but such Ainu-like names do not occur farther south in Japan. This suggests not only that Yayoi and Japanese pioneers adopted many Jomon place-names, just as white Americans did Native American names (think of Massachusetts and Mississippi), but also that Ainu was the Jomon language only of northernmost Japan.

That is, the modern Ainu language of Hokkaido is not a model for the ancient Jomon language of Kyushu. By the same token, modern Korean may be a poor model for the ancient Yayoi language of Korean immigrants in 400 b.c. In the centuries before Korea became unified politically in a.d. 676, it consisted of three kingdoms. Modern Korean is derived from the language of the kingdom of Silla, the kingdom that emerged triumphant and unified Korea, but Silla was not the kingdom that had close contact with Japan in the preceding centuries. Early Korean chronicles tell us that the different kingdoms had different languages. While the languages of the kingdoms defeated by Silla are poorly known, the few preserved words of one of those kingdoms, Koguryo, are much more similar to the corresponding Old Japanese words than are the corresponding modern Korean words. Korean languages may have been even more diverse in 400 b.c., before political unification had reached the stage of three kingdoms. The Korean language that reached Japan in 400 b.c., and that evolved into modern Japanese, I suspect, was quite different from the Silla language that evolved into modern Korean. Hence we should not be surprised that modern Japanese and Korean people resemble each other far more in their appearance and genes than in their languages.

History gives the Japanese and the Koreans ample grounds for mutual distrust and contempt, so any conclusion confirming their close relationship is likely to be unpopular among both peoples. Like Arabs and Jews, Koreans and Japanese are joined by blood yet locked in traditional enmity. But enmity is mutually destructive, in East Asia as in the Middle East. As reluctant as Japanese and Koreans are to admit it, they are like twin brothers who shared their formative years. The political future of East Asia depends in large part on their success in rediscovering those ancient bonds between them.
supapimp
the japanese emperor ancestry who was considered deity were originally Korean. the people that japanese literally worshipped were all Korean... such as emperor's past lineage, mas oyama, rikidozan
Takashi
QUOTE (supapimp @ Mar 26 2006, 09:21 PM) *
the japanese emperor ancestry who was considered deity were originally Korean. the people that japanese literally worshipped were all Korean... such as emperor's past lineage, mas oyama, rikidozan

mas oyama and rikidozan yes
the ancestry no, not as far as I'm aware, emperors jimmu and ojin were japanese which one you pick depends on how reliable you consider the past records to be. Which period were you referring to?
bigboy
i read somewhere that when japanese were still huntergatherers, korea already had kingoms and all that. back then japan was not what you think japan is today, before korea entered, there were no samurais, no ninjas, no kimonos, no shoguns, no kabuki. there wasnt really a system or any type of rule that was going on. i just know that korea already had kingdoms and had a rule and government, all that type of stuff. and im pretty sure since japan was one footstep away from korea, korea probably wouldve crossed over to japan during the 5,000 years cuz they lived side by side. cuz i heard a lot of people argue and deny that korea and japan never had any type of relationship. they say korea had no influence on japan at all. not even a little. and im like what?

i pretty sure korea had brought a lot of things to japan though
tutu2000
QUOTE (bigboy @ Mar 26 2006, 07:39 PM) *
i read somewhere that when japanese were still huntergatherers, korea already had kingoms and all that. back then japan was not what you think japan is today, before korea entered, there were no samurais, no ninjas, no kimonos, no shoguns, no kabuki. there wasnt really a system or any type of rule that was going on. i just know that korea already had kingdoms and had a rule and government, all that type of stuff. and im pretty sure since japan was one footstep away from korea, korea probably wouldve crossed over to japan during the 5,000 years cuz they lived side by side. cuz i heard a lot of people argue and deny that korea and japan never had any type of relationship. they say korea had no influence on japan at all. not even a little. and im like what?

i pretty sure korea had brought a lot of things to japan though


I think that makes sense. The Japanese must have come from Korea. They could not just sail right through to their island from a farther place.
EvilAsianDude
The Japanese did come from Korea. Genetic testing even proves this. The Japanese are closer to Koreans than any other group, ethnicity or race. Koreans are closer to the Japanese than any other race.

What surprises me the most is that Koreans are genetically closer to western europeons then they are to Southern Chinese.
Jarhier
fu-k that was a long read embarassedlaugh.gif i think my eyes are bleeding..

QUOTE
That is, the modern Ainu language of Hokkaido is not a model for the ancient Jomon language of Kyushu. By the same token, modern Korean may be a poor model for the ancient Yayoi language of Korean immigrants in 400 b.c. In the centuries before Korea became unified politically in a.d. 676, it consisted of three kingdoms. Modern Korean is derived from the language of the kingdom of Silla, the kingdom that emerged triumphant and unified Korea, but Silla was not the kingdom that had close contact with Japan in the preceding centuries. Early Korean chronicles tell us that the different kingdoms had different languages. While the languages of the kingdoms defeated by Silla are poorly known, the few preserved words of one of those kingdoms, Koguryo, are much more similar to the corresponding Old Japanese words than are the corresponding modern Korean words. Korean languages may have been even more diverse in 400 b.c., before political unification had reached the stage of three kingdoms. The Korean language that reached Japan in 400 b.c., and that evolved into modern Japanese, I suspect, was quite different from the Silla language that evolved into modern Korean. Hence we should not be surprised that modern Japanese and Korean people resemble each other far more in their appearance and genes than in their languages.


eh..most interesting part of the article.

QUOTE (EvilAsianDude @ Mar 26 2006, 07:38 PM) *
What surprises me the most is that Koreans are genetically closer to western europeons then they are to Southern Chinese.


in what area? confused.gif
namjanurse7
Someone i think it was a monk from Baekche, he was the one who wrote the Japanese History. He went to Japan to teach them the essentials of civilization. I.E clothing, eating, chopsticks, customs etc. But of course Japan is ashamed so they formed their own.

Baekche customs and artifacts are very similar to the Japanese artifacts.
There was a sword that had 7 edges which was escavated in jejudo(baekche)
and the similar sword was found in Japan. But the one found in Korea was older.

Mainly half of the Japanese origins were already in Japan and the japanese claim in their history that they came from Mount Fuji. And half are from the decendents of Baekche who was defeated by the Shilla and migrated towards Japan.
EvilAsianDude
The longer the line the further apart genetically.

Kang Xi
QUOTE (EvilAsianDude @ Mar 26 2006, 07:24 PM) *
The longer the line the further apart genetically.



There is no way that shady chart is for real, lol Mongols two lines under English. My dad's more related English than S Chinese? lol!!! Btw where's N Chinese or Vietnamese?

That's total BS, because genetic traits and expressed phenotypic traits go hand in hand.

Why don't you give us scientific source instead of a chart that reeks of MS paint.
EvilAsianDude
thats not how the chart works. Notice that each race is connected by lines. Get a ruler and measure the lines. The longer the distance between the lines the further away genetically.

For example NW American may be one spot above SW chinese but if you connect the lines you will find that its genetically closer to eskimoes which happen to be 5 spots above it.
Dpham313
wat is the popular belief about the origin of japan?
SsangOhChill
QUOTE (Dpham313 @ Mar 26 2006, 10:58 PM) *
wat is the popular belief about the origin of japan?


Depends on who you talk to. Jared Diamond's view seems orthodox among Western scientists. But there's a lot of research and other considerations that can problematize that view. In short, there's no safe conclusion I'd make about it.

QUOTE
Baekche customs and artifacts are very similar to the Japanese artifacts.
There was a sword that had 7 edges which was escavated in jejudo(baekche)
and the similar sword was found in Japan. But the one found in Korea was older


The language also. Old Japanese apparently is similar to what Baekchae and Goguryeo and Buyeo/Fuyu words we know of.
Dpham313
is there a site or book i should check out to find out more about this? i'm a history buff. love it. never really dove into asian history but want to now.
bigboy
yeah, i read everywhere about japanese language, that koguryo language is the most accurate way to compare with the japanese language.

keep in mind that there were several kingdoms in korea long time ago. the three biggest are known as baekche, shilla, and koguryo. they all speaked korean, but each kingdom spoke a different version of korean, so basically it was like different languages for each kingdom. modern korean was originated from shilla, and it is said that koguryo language has evolved into japanese.

found this part somewhere, comparing old korean languages and japanese, i have no idea if this actually proves anything, but maybe it does. you could see words that got evolved over time, im just puttin it up cuz its interesting

QUOTE
During the early Yayoi era, probably the language of South Koreans and our proto-Japanese were identical. But as time went by, the language on the island started to be influenced by the phonetics of native islanders. Island people didn't have consonant ending syllables so they couldn't hear them clearly. Susumu Oono show many examples to corresponding words.


mil -> midu (water)
nunmil -> namida (tear)
nat -> nata (hatchet)
pat -> pata (farm)
kot -> kusi (spit)
sal -> sa (arrow) -- /sa/ of /ikusa/
kama = kama (sickle)
mail -> mura (village)
(Bart mentioned here that the evidence is getting pretty strong that early Korean didn't have consonant-final syllables either.)

Between Ancient Korean and Ancient Japanese, over 20 phonetical corresponding rules were found:
k-k, s-s, s-ch, t-t, n-n, P(F)-p, m-m, s.z-r.l, etc.

The basic vocabulary of body part names from Korea didn't replace Japanese words, but it was transformed into verbs, related to the part of body originally in ancient Korean.


ip (mouth) -> ipu (to say)
ko (nose) -> kagu (to smell)
kui (ear) -> kiku (to hear)
al (egg) -> aru (to be born), etc.
(examples are from "Origin of the Japanese Language" by Susumu Oono)



i also read that shinto was originated from korean shamanism. there was a woman named Amaderasu who portrayed in a shaman's dress. It is believed that she was in fact a Korean shaman named Himiko who ruled a tribe in the 4th Century AD, some 1,000 years later than the Japanese myth claims. She started Shinto religion based on shamanism of Korea. not sure about this one though. not sure if its true.
Digital Insanity
QUOTE (supapimp @ Mar 26 2006, 12:21 PM) *
the japanese emperor ancestry who was considered deity were originally Korean. the people that japanese literally worshipped were all Korean... such as emperor's past lineage, mas oyama, rikidozan


Frankly, the 1st post MUST be shown to the "WARA WARA NIHONJIN" disciples, given the fact that they also discriminate Koreans.
PervertBurger
Japanese came from Amaterasu.
korean_turtle87
QUOTE (PervertBurger @ Mar 26 2006, 08:59 PM) *
Japanese came from Amaterasu.

lmao. amaterasu is just a myth. i thought japanese people stopped beliving in that myth
supapimp
in terms of irony, the japanese race will be extinct in the future if the current trend continues

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/3/prweb360167.htm


Aging Japanese Population Forces Growth of Vascular Access Market in 2005





In 2005, nearly 20% of the Japanese population was over the age of 65, and by 2015, more than one-quarter of the nation will be considered elderly.

(PRWEB) March 22, 2006 -- The aging Japanese population continues to place extreme pressure on the nation’s health care system. In 2005, nearly 20% of the Japanese population was over the age of 65, and by 2015, more than one-quarter of the nation will be considered elderly. As a result, there will be a subsequent increase in the number of chronically ill patients, and hospital bed occupancies will boom over the next decade. The increasing prevalence of cancer and end stage renal disease—of which Japan has the second highest rate worldwide—are leading to an increase in infusion therapies such as vascular access (VA) procedures.
bubbles20
i think japanese people had a number of different ancestors including koreans
modern japanese are probably just a melting pot of ancietn koreans (who arent the same as modern day koreans), yayoi, jomon and other peoples we're unaware of

ainu mixing happened too but probably not to a large extent and doesnt apply to all modern day japanese
TomorrowNeverKnows
its amazing how much koreans want to be related to the japanese and even claim that they are from european descent.
korean_turtle87
QUOTE (TomorrowNeverKnows @ Mar 27 2006, 12:33 AM) *
its amazing how much koreans want to be related to the japanese and even claim that they are from european descent.

o_O? koreans are of mongolian descent. but w/e but i don't really like being related to the japanese...
Jarhier
so where did mongol came from..? O_o
sweetricecake
QUOTE (supapimp @ Mar 26 2006, 03:21 PM) *
the japanese emperor ancestry who was considered deity were originally Korean. the people that japanese literally worshipped were all Korean... such as emperor's past lineage, mas oyama, rikidozan


Typical LOW SELF-ESTEEM Koreans passionately pursue sole genetic tie to Japanese race who despices Koreans in return.

Koreans past and present WORSHIP Chinese ancestor Confucius.

Japanese SMARTLY developed own unique culture,now has many CULTURAL ATTRACTIONS fascinate foreign visitors.Unlike lowly Koreans relied on Chinese much of everything from writing to civil institutions except KIMCHI.
Mid-Night_Sun
mmm, this thread is not going to go well...but for real, does anyone actually care where the japanese came from? lol...dont lie now.
sweetricecake
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Mar 27 2006, 05:29 PM) *
mmm, this thread is not going to go well...but for real, does anyone actually care where the japanese came from? lol...dont lie now.


NOT Japanese evidently .....OVER-INFLATED new found arrogant lowly young generation Koreans very much imagine "some sort " of special blood tie to Japanese they loath for centuries as pass down generation to generation oral tradition.
Mid-Night_Sun
uhhh...okay...and why should you care? lol
sweetricecake
QUOTE (Mid-Night_Sun @ Mar 27 2006, 05:47 PM) *
uhhh...okay...and why should you care? lol


It was merely an honest answer to your question.

Japanese and Chinese DON'T CARE .... it's the LOW SELF-ESTEEM Koreans pursue Japanese kinship or Mongol origin.
CJK
low esteemed koreans?

it is fact that koreans, mongolians, japanese and other altaic/tungustics are of similar stock and share many similar traits.

What's sad is that I see chinese on AF claiming koreans and japanese came from china when there is no evidence of that at all.
korean_turtle87
QUOTE (CJK @ Mar 27 2006, 04:05 PM) *
low esteemed koreans?

it is fact that koreans, mongolians, japanese and other altaic/tungustics are of similar stock and share many similar traits.

What's sad is that I see chinese on AF claiming koreans and japanese came from china when there is no evidence of that at all.
ya i have a friend who said that. but its only true culturally
Mid-Night_Sun
QUOTE (CJK @ Mar 27 2006, 09:05 PM) *
low esteemed koreans?

it is fact that koreans, mongolians, japanese and other altaic/tungustics are of similar stock and share many similar traits.

What's sad is that I see chinese on AF claiming koreans and japanese came from china when there is no evidence of that at all.



really? because you are just as insecure and grasping at thin threads also. this "fact" you speak of is not recognized by anyone. trust me, japanese dont care to be related to koreans or vice versa. same with mongols that arent already Chinese. (outer mongolia)

also, real Chinese only really care about Chinese. they are probably just trying to piss you off, and you walk right into it. same with the santa klaws guy.

the problem is you guys actually somehow got in your heads "defending" your ethnicity here actually means something LOL. at this point, AF has seriously infected your minds deeply and you should take a break.
~Theta~
QUOTE (sweetricecake @ Mar 27 2006, 02:59 PM) *
It was merely an honest answer to your question.

Japanese and Chinese DON'T CARE .... it's the LOW SELF-ESTEEM Koreans pursue Japanese kinship or Mongol origin.


Uh, what's your ethnicity, may I ask?
bigboy
QUOTE (TomorrowNeverKnows @ Mar 27 2006, 12:33 AM) *
its amazing how much koreans want to be related to the japanese and even claim that they are from european descent.


yeah, but its amazing how almost every article i read about japanese origings, korea is always involved somewhere. i dont know why, but it doesnt make sense

yeah, sometimes im like man why do koreans keep saying japan intermixed with koreans. its just ridiculously absurd. how the hell can someone say that? korea had no relations with japan ever. even though korea is like one tippy toe footstep away from japan. there is no way in the world that its possible that korea wouldve thought to cross over and check things out. that just isnt logical, who in the right mind would think about stepping on land that is 2 inches away from them. its more likely that china would cross over to japan than korea. its more likely that the chinese entered through korea and traveled thousands of miles and somehow ended up in japan rather than koreans simply crossing over with one step to japan. it is just ludicrous how koreans think koreans settled in japan. just cuz korea is the closest to japan than any other nation in the world, doesnt mean that koreans are the most likely people to have went to japan.
roses
QUOTE (bigboy @ Mar 26 2006, 08:14 PM) *
During the early Yayoi era, probably the language of South Koreans and our proto-Japanese were identical. But as time went by, the language on the island started to be influenced by the phonetics of native islanders. Island people didn't have consonant ending syllables so they couldn't hear them clearly. Susumu Oono show many examples to corresponding words.


mil -> midu (water)
nunmil -> namida (tear)
nat -> nata (hatchet)
pat -> pata (farm)
kot -> kusi (spit)
sal -> sa (arrow) -- /sa/ of /ikusa/
kama = kama (sickle)
mail -> mura (village)
(Bart mentioned here that the evidence is getting pretty strong that early Korean didn't have consonant-final syllables either.)

Between Ancient Korean and Ancient Japanese, over 20 phonetical corresponding rules were found:
k-k, s-s, s-ch, t-t, n-n, P(F)-p, m-m, s.z-r.l, etc.

The basic vocabulary of body part names from Korea didn't replace Japanese words, but it was transformed into verbs, related to the part of body originally in ancient Korean.


ip (mouth) -> ipu (to say)
ko (nose) -> kagu (to smell)
kui (ear) -> kiku (to hear)
al (egg) -> aru (to be born), etc.
(examples are from "Origin of the Japanese Language" by Susumu Oono)


interesting post.
出家人
QUOTE (bigboy @ Mar 27 2006, 12:14 AM) *
yeah, i read everywhere about japanese language, that koguryo language is the most accurate way to compare with the japanese language.

keep in mind that there were several kingdoms in korea long time ago. the three biggest are known as baekche, shilla, and koguryo. they all speaked korean, but each kingdom spoke a different version of korean, so basically it was like different languages for each kingdom. modern korean was originated from shilla, and it is said that koguryo language has evolved into japanese.

found this part somewhere, comparing old korean languages and japanese, i have no idea if this actually proves anything, but maybe it does. you could see words that got evolved over time, im just puttin it up cuz its interesting
i also read that shinto was originated from korean shamanism. there was a woman named Amaderasu who portrayed in a shaman's dress. It is believed that she was in fact a Korean shaman named Himiko who ruled a tribe in the 4th Century AD, some 1,000 years later than the Japanese myth claims. She started Shinto religion based on shamanism of Korea. not sure about this one though. not sure if its true.

I read about Himiko in the Wei Chronicles of SanGuoZhi. It didn't mention anything about her being Corean. Where do you get you info from?

Also, I heard the first documented Korean kingdom was not founded by a Korean. naughty.gif

heres a translated part of Japan from SanGuoZhi
QUOTE
JAPAN IN THE WEI DYNASTIC HISTORY

Japan was recorded in Chinese dynastic histories on different occasions. The first contact Japan had with China occurred in 57 A.D. when a mission was sent to the court of the Later Han dynasty. A tribute mission was again sent in 107 A.D. and southern dynastic histories give 13 entries for “five Japanese kings?between 413 and 502 A.D.
Of all the Chinese records, the description appearing in the Wei chih (History of Wei) is most thorough, giving a contemporary account of history, geography, and the beliefs and customs of the Japanese people. The Kingdom of Wei existed between 220 and 265 A.D. and its history was compiled about 297 A.D. The existence of wet-rice cultivation and of sericulture is clearly indicated in the excerpts reproduced below. The use of iron as described ?important both for cultivation and for warfare ?is consistent with archaeological evidence available for the later Yayoi period.
As to the political structure of the country of Wa, rejection of men rulers in favor of a female seems to indicate a widespread practice of shamanism. The queen, Pimiko, obviously served as a medium as did her successor Iyo. Only through a form of witchcraft was the country able to maintain a semblance of unity. Note also that there was an attempt to gain assistance from the Wei officials. The use of animal bones for divination is supported by archaeological evidence. The purification rites described in the Wei history are probably not confined to the period after funeral services. Misogi, or water purification, is one of the important Shinto rituals which survives today in a diff'erent form ?the Japanese love for bathing, especially in hot springs.

4
From the History of Wei' ' The people of Wa make their abode in the
mountainous islands located in the middle of the ocean to the southeast of the Taifang prefecture.' ?Formerly there were more than one hundred communities. During the Han dynasty their envoys appeared in the court. Today, thirty of their communities maintain communication with us through their envoys....
All men, old or young, are covered by tattoos. Japanese fishers revel in diving to catch fish and shell-fish. Tattoos are said to drive away large fish and water predators. They are considered an ornament. Tottoos differ from community to community. Some place tattoos on the left, and others on the right, some place large ones and others small ones. Tattoos also differ in accordance with the social positions.... Men allow their hair to cover both of their ears and wear head-bands. They wear loin cloth wrapped around their bodies and seldom use stitches. Women gather their hair at the ends and tie in a knot and then pin it to the top of their heads. They make their clothes in one piece, and cut an opening in the center for their heads. They plant wet-field rice, China-grass (ramie), and mulberry trees. They raise cocoons and reel the silk off the cocoons. They produce clothing made of China-grass, of coarse silk, and of cotton. In their land, there are no cows, horses, tigers, leopards, sheep or swan. They fight with halberds, shields and wooden bows. The lower inflection of their bows is shorter, and the upper inflection longer. Their arrows are made of bamboo and iron and bone points make up the arrowhead....
The land of Wa is warm and mild. The people eat raw vegetables and go about barefoot in winter as in summer. They live in houses. Father and mother, older and younger sleep separately. They paint their bodies with vermilion and scarlet, just as the Chinese apply powder. They serve food on bowl-shaped stemware (takatsuki), and eat with their fingers. When a person dies, he is placed in a coffin (which is buried directly in the grave) without an outer protective layer. The grave is then covered with earth to make a mound. When death occurs, the family observes mourning for more than ten days, during which period no meat is eaten. The head mourner wails and cries, while others sing, dance and drink liquor (probably sake, the Japanese rice wine). When the funeral is over, the entire family goes into the water to cleanse themselves in a manner similar to the Chinese in their rites of purification.
When they travel across the sea to come to China, they always select a man who does not comb his hair, does not rid himself of fleas, keeps his clothes soiled with dirt, does not eat meat, and does not lie with women. He behaves like a mourner, and is called a “keeper of taboos.??If the voyage is concluded with good fortune, every one lavishes on him slaves and treasures. If someone gets ill, or if there is a mishap, they kill him immediately, saying that he was not conscientious in observing the taboos....
When they undertake an activity or a journey and cannot reach a consensus, they bake animal bones to divine and tell good or bad fortunes. They first announce the object of their divination, and in their manner of speech, they are similar to the Chinese tortoise shell divination. They examine the cracks on the bone made by the fire to tell the fortune.
In their meetings and daily living, there is no distinction between father and son, or between men and women. People enjoy liquor. In their worship, the high-echelon men simply clap their hands instead of bowing in the kneeled position. They live long, some reaching one hundred years of age, and others to eighty or ninety years. Normally, men of high echelon have four or five wives, and the plebians may have two or three. Women are chaste and not given to jealousy. They do not engage in thievery, and there is very little litigation. When the law is violated, the light offender loses his wife and children by confiscation, and the grave offender has his household and kinsmen exterminated. There are class distinctions within the nobility and the base, and some are vassals of others. There are mansions and granaries erected for the purpose of collecting taxes. Each community has a market place where commodities are exchanged under the supervision of an official of Wa....
When plebians meet the high-echelon men on the road, they withdraw to the grassy area (side of the road) hesitantly. When they speak or are spoken to, they either crouch or kneel with both hands on the ground to show their respect. When responding they say “aye,?which corresponds to our affirmative “yes.

http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~gwang/id97.htm
Musashino
QUOTE (sweetricecake @ Mar 27 2006, 05:41 PM) *
NOT Japanese evidently .....OVER-INFLATED new found arrogant lowly young generation Koreans very much imagine "some sort " of special blood tie to Japanese they loath for centuries as pass down generation to generation oral tradition.


Sad, but true. Generally, many Koreans seem to be fascinated *coughobsessedcough* with launching PR campaigns (mostly through the internet) to stamp in some sort of racial superiority over the Japanese. And it seems that one of the most common ways to go about this is tying past Korean kingdoms as the sole ancestors/blood line of the Japanese.

I don't understand what benefit doing this will have for the Koreans. Just because there may have been connections between past Koreans and Japanese, there's little doubt that the biggest influence in Japanese culture comes from China. In fact, it's likely that most of the "Korean influence" would've been filtered through from China in the first place.
Kay Dis Nine
QUOTE (Musashino @ Mar 27 2006, 11:08 PM) *
Sad, but true. Generally, many Koreans seem to be fascinated *coughobsessedcough* with launching PR campaigns (mostly through the internet) to stamp in some sort of racial superiority over the Japanese. And it seems that one of the most common ways to go about this is tying past Korean kingdoms as the sole ancestors/blood line of the Japanese.

I don't understand what benefit doing this will have for the Koreans. Just because there may have been connections between past Koreans and Japanese, there's little doubt that the biggest influence in Japanese culture comes from China. In fact, it's likely that most of the "Korean influence" would've been filtered through from China in the first place.

Now arn't you doing the same thing? Why does it upset you that Korea may have been connections between Korea and Japan? Fine, China had the bigger influence on Japan if that makes you satisfied. The man's just showing some interesting documentaries.

And that whole internet war was sparked by a Japanese flash-movie that claimed Japan made the foundations of ancient Korea. Never-ending propaganda flash-movies can be found around naver and magga.
korean_turtle87
QUOTE (Kay Dis Nine @ Mar 28 2006, 12:04 AM) *
And that whole internet war was sparked by a Japanese flash-movie that claimed Japan made the foundations of ancient Korea. Never-ending propaganda flash-movies can be found around naver and magga.

do you have a link to this? i wanna check it out
MasterZen
Genetically related or not, it still didn't stop the Japanese from colonizing Korea and attempting to wipe out the entire culture and civilization. It goes to show how little genetic relations really mean in this world.
Jarhier
gathered info from some of old chats. better image than that stick drawing i guess embarassedlaugh.gif



ag - presented in Japanese by around 50% concentration. Over 60% in Ainu and 40% in Northern Han.
ab3st - Presented in Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Ainu, and Eskimos.
afb1b3 - Constitute most of the Thailand population and even more in Borneo.
axg - Presented in all Asians, most people, little or none in black and white.
fb1b3 - White
fb1c - n/a
ab1c - Black
ab1b3 - Central Africa and black.
ab3s - n/a

what it means
rahul1000
I'm surprised to get a good amount of ag (Japanese) in India, whats up with that, it looks like a mistake to me. sure.gif
Musashino
QUOTE (Kay Dis Nine @ Mar 28 2006, 03:04 AM) *
Now arn't you doing the same thing?


Huh? All I did was comment in one thread. That doesn't make me obsessed with the bloodline of the Japanese race.

QUOTE (Kay Dis Nine @ Mar 28 2006, 03:04 AM) *
Why does it upset you that Korea may have been connections between Korea and Japan?


Since when did I indicate being "upset"? icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (Kay Dis Nine @ Mar 28 2006, 03:04 AM) *
Fine, China had the bigger influence on Japan if that makes you satisfied.


Why should I care? It's your opinion.

QUOTE (Kay Dis Nine @ Mar 28 2006, 03:04 AM) *
The man's just showing some interesting documentaries.


And he opened a thread welcoming other people's responses icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (Kay Dis Nine @ Mar 28 2006, 03:04 AM) *
And that whole internet war was sparked by a Japanese flash-movie that claimed Japan made the foundations of ancient Korea. Never-ending propaganda flash-movies can be found around naver and magga.


Give us a credible link.

And that does not include some second-rate web-page done by some disgruntled college kid.
sweetricecake
QUOTE (~Theta~ @ Mar 27 2006, 07:31 PM) *
Uh, what's your ethnicity, may I ask?


Hey .... you confused.gif STOP acting like a moron
Kstragist
QUOTE (Kang Xi @ Mar 26 2006, 09:42 PM) *
There is no way that shady chart is for real, lol Mongols two lines under English. My dad's more related English than S Chinese? lol!!! Btw where's N Chinese or Vietnamese?

That's total BS, because genetic traits and expressed phenotypic traits go hand in hand.

Why don't you give us scientific source instead of a chart that reeks of MS paint.




That comes from a scientic source. It comes from The history and geography of human genes by Cavalli-Sforza, L.L., Menozzi, P.& Piazza, A.
If you think about it, there's considerable differnces in phynotypic traits as well. Height for example, N. chinese are a way taller than S. ones. Difference in temperment. N. Chinese are a way more aggressive and competitive than S. ones.

There's a considerable genetical difference between N. chinese and S. chinese
The picture below comes from a Japanese textbook.



QUOTE (~Theta~ @ Mar 27 2006, 06:31 PM) *
Uh, what's your ethnicity, may I ask?


She's a taiwanese, at least that's what she claims to be.
n4ce12
silly kids....

japanese people came from vag*nas
Kstragist
QUOTE (n4ce12 @ Mar 28 2006, 07:47 PM) *
silly kids....

japanese people came from vag*nas


I agree with you 100%.
azndood
QUOTE (TomorrowNeverKnows @ Mar 27 2006, 12:33 AM) *
its amazing how much koreans want to be related to the japanese and even claim that they are from european descent.

this guy doesnt know $hit...our grandparents would scoff at the idea

QUOTE
Koreans past and present WORSHIP Chinese ancestor Confucius.

Japanese SMARTLY developed own unique culture,now has many CULTURAL ATTRACTIONS fascinate foreign visitors.Unlike lowly Koreans relied on Chinese much of everything from writing to civil institutions except KIMCHI.


your a fu-king idiot. Back then Culture = China China = Culture, China had one of the greatest and most advanced civilizations of the world. Koreans took as much as they can for their own benefit and recognized this. We were proud of how much Chinese culture we were able to accomodate, while the Japanese were looked at as a backwater country filled with hunters and gatherers. You do know that much of Japanese culture derived from Chinese Tang culture. Korean from Ming. But in this we were all our own separate peoples with a uniqueness that stretches from differing ancestral origins. If you look at it from the Asian perspective, the japanese were the first to sell out to the west and forsaked their own way of life. So fu-k you you fu-king dim witted troll.

Anyways as so far as chinese culture being filtered through the korean peninsula to get to japan
you must remember who the people were that carried the culture to japan. For the most part they were korean from the down low the the up high. Its recorded in the Nihonjin of the number of foreign clans. About 1/3 are from china while 2/3rds are from Paekche/Koguryo households and 1/8 being from Shilla. Note these were the later immigrants, not the ones who set up the Yamato dynasty, which go back to more ancient peninsular origins before there was a Korean or Japanese identity.
R3M1X
ahh making sense now o_O.. my korean friend was telling me something about that.. i think he said their Karate came from Korea too
azndood
QUOTE (R3M1X @ Mar 28 2006, 07:31 PM) *
ahh making sense now o_O.. my korean friend was telling me something about that.. i think he said their Karate came from Korea too

some will take it to the extremes, this is not true, karate traveled through the okinawan islands from taiwan and ultimately from china
Jagger
QUOTE (rahul1000 @ Mar 29 2006, 12:07 AM) *
I'm surprised to get a good amount of ag (Japanese) in India, whats up with that, it looks like a mistake to me. sure.gif

There seems to be a particularly high amount of it in South India, which I doubt, since they don't look anything like the Japanese.
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