You are probbably right!!!!!!


EMOS
An entire subculture of people (usually angsty teens) with a fake personality. The concept of Emo is actually a vicious cycle that never ends, to the utter failing of humanity, and it goes something like this:

1. Girls say they like "sensitive guys" (lie)
2. Guy finds out, so he listens to faggy emo music and dresses like a dork so chicks will see that he is sensitive and not afraid to express himself (lie). He dyes his hair black, wraps himself in a stupid looking scarf, develops an eating disorder, and rants about how "nobody understands".
3. Now an emo guy, he meets Emo chick and they start dating, talking about how their well-off suburban lifestyles are terrible and depressing (lie)
4. Emo guy is just too much of a pussy. His penis is too small, he's too depressed to bathe, and has more mood swings than emo chick, and he doesn't even have a menstrual cycle. Emo chick dumps him, saying "It's not you, it's me." (lie) as she drives off with Wayne, the school jock and captain of the football team.
5. Emo guy goes home and cries, proceeds to write a weak song and strum a single string on his acoustic guitar. Another emo chick sees how he is so in touch with his feelings, and the cycle continues.

This is the sad truth of the emo lifestyle/music, and now that I look at how pathetic it really is, maybe the emos DO have something to cry about!

When she sees how sensitive and emo I have become, she'll definately go out with me!

I've seen Emos in all the countries I've been in, and although I think they need growing up, I also feel they are trying to find themselves, different people do it differently. Its very funny your description but I don't know how you know their penis is small. Dated one previously?

PNG has been an independent country since 1975.
Majapahitans will know more about the early history of this island.
After WW2 the east half of the island became a United Nations trusteeship under Australian administration.
Australia tried to set up effective local government systems, industry, commerce, education and healthcare.
Australia gradually gave PNG autonomy, with full independence declared in 1975.
Not sure what Irian Jaya is like.
If anyone has been there, please contribute to the discussion.
My Chinese friend Barry Yau worked as a lawyer in PNG during the Bougainville independence war of the 90s.
Barry told me that the capital city of Port Moresby was totally chaotic. Whatever infrastructure had been set up by Australia, was now in a state of collapse. Local bigwigs monopolised everything that was still in working order. Barry observed that all the governments from Rabbie Namaliu to Bill Skate, struggled to bring law and order to their country. Barry's daily work as a lawyer brought him into direct contact with corrupt businessmen, who were milking the fledgling economy and taking the money overseas. The average person on the street had low self-esteem and when he told the locals about his homeland, they had no idea where it was. He told me that he did not feel safe on the streets at night. The police force was either ineffective or corrupt, and he saw violent street fights almost every day. He described how on one bus trip home from his office, there was a man bashing his wife in front of everyone. He said that not only did nobody intervene, all the passengers just carried on with their chatter, oblivious to this violent incident. Barry said that AIDS was rampant in PNG and causing a breakdown of traditional family relations, just as much as alcohol. To sum it all up, Barry described a country that was getting close to collapse on all issues - politics, economy,law and order , traditional social networks, healthcare, culture, education.....
Barry left PNG to work on Norfolk Island in the late 90s, so I do not have any more recent information from "my reporter on the ground". Hopefully things have improved since Australia provided a multi-million dollar aid package to PNG.

I can't speak for my government, but I want Australia to be friend with Indonesian and other south-east asia neigbors.

I can confidently say that the general public has no interests in seeing Australia becoming regional power of the south pacific (beside, what do you have to worry, our helicopters keeps coming down on their own and our submarines are as loud as Bush's fart )

Our current PM and his little camp are too busy kissing Bush's bottom and are ignoring its relationship with the south pacific region. Don't worry, they will be voted out in the next election.

QUOTE(Mowe @ Aug 4 2007, 08:58 PM) [snapback]3106759[/snapback]

Our current PM and his little camp are too busy kissing Bush's bottom and are ignoring its relationship with the south pacific region. Don't worry, they will be voted out in the next election.

Even though former Prime Minister Keating lost control of the economy, he had a stronger vision of Australia as part of Asia. What do you think ?

I don't know anything of PM Keating... but just judging from the actions of Australians rather than their words, I don't think Australians have ever seen themselves as part of Asia at all... except maybe u Ralf!

I believe that you are right to an extent. Back in the 50's and 60's(and this still refects on the generation of that time) Australia was still very British centric. Even now our current PM is still personally I believe British centric. The younger generation though, having been exposed to many different cultures and with the migration of large non British communities, this has changed alot and is still changing now. Currently >50%(last I read 80%) of the poplation feel that we should cut our ties with Britain and remove the Queen as the official head of state.


I think more now then ever we see ourselves as part of Asia, and hopefully I personally hope the trend continues. Our football team is now part of the Asian Federation, and hopefully in time, obviously with the consent of other Asian nations we(Ocenania) become part of Asia. I hope that Asia can form a Union not unlike the EU I believe that it would better for economic development and forge closer ties. The problem is that in Asia, there is a wider diversity of people, culture and religions then in Europe and still in Europe, they had so much trouble forming the EU.

It appears to be true that the majority of Australians are indifferent to Asia and still identify themselves most strongly with American culture and their English origins. There is no widespread Asian cultural engagement in the Australian population. The only major push in that direction came from our former PM Keating.
In 1995, the then Labor Prime Minister, Paul Keating, stated :
"Asia is emphatically where this county's security and prosperity lie. It is where an increasing number of our people come from and - unambiguously and wholeheartedly - it is where we want to be... Our efforts on free trade, multiculturalism, and education and training are all part of the same strategy."
The July 2000 issue of Business Asia listed Paul Keating in its top 25 most influential Australians in Asia.
Mr. Keating continues to be critical of the Howard administration's foreign policy and has claimed that John Howard is too nationalistic and uncomfortable with Australia's multicultural community.
Keating's "big picture" policies regarding cultural and economic engagement with Asia, were popular with the tertiary educated youth from upper classes, but he lost the vote of older Australians and his Labor Party's large working class and rural supporters.
International critics of Keating have claimed that he was primarily motivated by the economic benefits of "Asianisation".

I hope Australia will grow closer to Asia, be friendly to Indonesia especially.
Not to view Indonesian muslims as "terrorist".
Not too close to unpopular Bush administration.

I don't know about you guys, but somehow I felt Australian seems to love Balinese or Papuans better than any muslim Indonesian. Please don't afraid or hate us (Indonesian muslims).
Also I wish Australia did not harbouring separatist that may harm Indonesian unity.
(Remember, if Indonesia fell to chaos of separatism and circle of violence, Australia will suffer the flood of refugees).

On the other hand, Australia is entitled to keep their anglo-saxon legacy, but it's the fact that they are surrounded by Asians.

Most Australians understand that the majority of Indonesians are peace loving. However in both countries there is a minority who fear and dislike each other. In Australia there are some who view Indonesia as Australia haters and terrorists. This has been augmented by the Bombings in Bali and Australian Embassy, the support percieved terrorists groups like JM recieve and the demonstrations sometimes violent ones outside our embassy in Jakarta. In Indonesia there are those who see Australia as trying to destabalise the county, as colonialists and I personally feel there is an innate dislike against whites something learned from Indoneisa's past and its formation.

I believe that the majority of people in both countries want happy prosperous lives, and having peaceful stable democratic govents benefits both neighbours. This is why I think in forums like this we(I assume we both want peace) we should be promoting that peace, there are enough people out there already promoting hate. Be critical of each other if we have to be but mature enough to recognise our own faults, criticise each other constructively but at the end of the day recognise each other as independet states, and respect that autonomy

I know there are alot of Asian studies and research going on in Aussie universities... they are really in the frontline in documenting the development in SE Asian thoughts and histories. I wish there could be massive amounts of grants for Asians to go to Australian universities to study and bring the collaboration between our universities closer together. It would certainly help dispel any distrusts the intellectual elites may have about each other within Southeast Asian nations as well as that longstanding distrust and enmity between Australia and Indonesia...

Those hate-mongers with their closed minds, are trying to drive a wedge between us. Every time there is a violent anti-Australian incident, my Indonesian friends DownUnder apologise to me, and I tell them, "No worries mate - not your fault - just some idiot who wants to destroy the progress we made". Similarly I often find myself in some warung, apologising for the anti-Indonesian attitudes of some Australians.

The reason they love the Balinese Indonesians, but are wary of Muslim Indonesians, is that Australians tend to lump all Islamic people together with the violent fundamentalist type of Islam that is spreading out from the Middle East.
I certainly don't hate Muslim Indonesians. Dewi my gf is Muslim.
The older Australian population does not know much about the diversity of Islam. It is fine to learn about it in the media, but the only real way to dispel these prejudices, is through more open contact. I urge all my Australian friends to travel to Indonesia, or anywhere off the well-trodden path, to experience for themselves what the human condition can teach us.
Sometimes you just got to step outside your comfort zone, if you really want to learn.

I was surprised to see that those Papuan refugees were given visas and work so quickly. At the same time other refugees were locked up in detention centres. The Australian leaders have some inconsistent ways of applying the law. It makes me suspect that there were hidden political motives behind those Papuans being granted refugee status. The current Australian government has a record of being harsh on asylum seekers, so this incident had me puzzled.

Yeah, a chance for the younger generation to gain wider experiences should be a priority for our leaders.
Indonesian students virtually have to sell an arm or a leg to get into Australian universities.
Enawati, a good friend of my gf, wants to study in Melbourne. It was always her dream to travel and study overseas, but she is just not empowered to make that kind of money, so we decided to help with the financial problems.

I agree there are inconsistencies, the reasons are probably partially political. I guess with the "other" refugees that arrive on boat, there is strong evidence to suggest that they were not true refugees and were part of a people smuggling ring. Being harsh against these so called refugees has essentially stopped the flow of people smuggling into Australia. One may not agree with the methods used but we have to admit the measures have stopped the people smuggling. The question then becomes a moral one, does the end justify the means? I suspect that opinion in this forum will be polarised as it has been in Australia.

With the question as to how much politics played in the decision to allow the West Papuans to stay, there are definitely symphatisers of West Papuans in Australia, many native West Papuans themselves. However the "other" refugees who are mainly Iraqi and Pakistani also have their symphatisers in Australia as well, who have also lobbied strongly to allow them to stay. One other issue that I feel must be on the Australian govnts mind is the potential of these refugees to be terrorists. Right or wrong and for whatever reason, Australia and Australians have been targeted by Muslim terrorists. By allowing these "refugees" to stay without properly vetting them would be a dereliction of duty on the govnts part. Also trying to prove the correct identity of these refugees is extremely difficult. This alone would make it prudent for the govnt to isolate these people until they could be properly processed. I have to admit, personally, I am against these internment camps, but I can't suggest an alternative and have to futher admit that the govnts measures have had the desired effect. Again the question is though, does the end justify the means. Personally, and I know that people will strongly disagree with me, but being unable to suggest a better alternative nor having heard someone else suggest a better alternative, I do agree with the Australian Govnts stand.

Yeah, about that Papuan separatists asylum being granted, Indonesia suspected there's elements of Australian govt that try to play with this "Papuan wildcard" on Indonesian expense....
But for me an Indonesian, our Indonesian unity is final.


Btw I watch TV show about Kangaroo hunter in Merauke, Papua...
Amazing....., although Tree Kangaroo and other kinds of kangaroo in Papua are protected species, govt still allowed traditional way of hunting by native Papuans. And Kangaroo's meat is their daily diets, Hmm... I really curious how's Kangaroo meat tastes....

Oh yeah..., even Papuans has recepy: "Kangguru Kecap" or Kangaroo in sweet soy sauce.... (influenced by other Indonesian ethnics group).

I'm not sure about what "Papaun wildcard" you mean. But I have not seen any evidence of any element of the Australian govnt being involved in this. In fact as far as I can tell, the Govnt probably wished that they never arrived on our shores becasue they knew the problems that it would cause which is why our govnt went into damage control even before waiting for the response from the Indoneisan govnt. Having said that, once they did arrive there was little else the govnt could do but to take them in.

I'm not calling for the independence of any state nor do I support the independence of any state but what "Indonesian" unity are you talking about. West Papua is not the only state that is actively seeking independence, furthermore Indonesia as a republic was created only about 50 years ago, before that "Indonesia" never existed, and most of the islands that make up Indonesia today lived independently of each other, each with their own form of govnt and culture that today contribute to the cultural diversity that most Indonesians are proud of. So Indoneisa as a country today, historically has no special rights or claim over the islands.

If you want to try Kangaroo meat come to Australia, like most things, it tasts like chicken , though a bit meatier.


What do you think about Indonesia's purchase of the Russian subs? Do they have cruise missle capability?

I still can not understand that incident. The Australian government has been so harsh on other asylum seekers, yet they took them in and gave them shelter and work visas. I do not understand why the sudden change of heart. It's just something that sticks in my mind.

Well I have often had kangaroo and it never tasted like chicken.
The taste is more like a mix of venison, beef steak and liver.

The overseas detention centres from my understanding have recently been closed down. Honestly I think they were set up specifically to stop one group of asylum seekers which to my understanding it achieved its purpose. Should the govnt have specifically targeted people smugglers and people of questionable refugee status? Some would argue that well, if they could afford to pay the tens of thousands of dollars to come to Australia, then are they really refugees. Some others would argue that well if they are desperate enough to pay that amount then that just highlights how desperate they feel. I guess it becomes a moral issue. Me personally, I feel the govnt had a difficult decision to make, I feel strongly that people smuggling had to be stopped. Although like you I do find the detention centres harsh, I'm loath to criticise the govnt becasue I can't come up with a better solution myself. Furthermore, many of the people who came via the people smugglers, came from countries were terrorists incursions into Australia is a real concern.


Each to its own I guess. I've also had kangaroo many times. Though I think its odd that Australians are the only people I can think off who eat their national emblem.

I love this thread even though I haven't contribute anything (I'm too stupid and ignorant). I miss purnomor. I wonder where is he at the moment. Doc Swingy, you are in Australia right? Please keep a lookout for a young Indonesian man of Chinese descent who would get all fired up when you give the slightest negative comment on Indonesia, will you?

I doubt that in real life he would say anything.

You are right. Dinkum Aussies don't take nationalism too seriously. Ever since the Stockade, we have been a bunch of rebellious larrikins.
Have you tried emu ? I was surprised to find that it was a red meat and not white flesh, as with all the other poultry that I am familiar with.

yeah, most aussies aren't into politics, hahaha....

btw, i've always wondered what emu meat taste like, since i haven't got the chance to sample any, even during the fremantle sardine festivals, hahaha...but the kangaroo meat is a bit dry, lol...

and the yabby was sweet, if a bit bland...

Ha Ha, to me emu meat also tasts like chicken, maybe there is something wrong with my tastebuds. Crocodile is most like chicken, buffalo, milder then beef, venison, particualrly wild venison is very nice.

You must make sure that you don't overcook kangaroo, kangaroo meat has very little fat, so if you overcook it it becomes dry and tough. I personally feel kangaroo should be eaten at most medium rare, but then again I like my beef rare.

Yabbies are beautiful but I agree slightly bland compared to other crustaceans probably because it is fresh water. My favourite crustecean of all.......... Mud Crab aka Mangrove Crab aka Ketam Batu.

Purnomor is certainly very intelligent and he will probably defend Indonesia till his last breath but, I didn't like him much when he attempted to push Indonesia up by pushing other nations down. I felt his criticisms of Australia were generally unfounded and always unconstructive. They were always said to embarass, to me this serves no purpose except to create bad blood. He also seemed to put alot of emphasis on power as in which country was stronger and could therefore use this power for their own advantage. Indonesia being the most populous country in our region will always be a regional power, but with great power comes great responsibility, and I felt that if he was in power he would use it to the detrement of Indonesia's neighbours. He refused to see any faults Indonesia may have. Every country has faults, to make your country better you need to first recognise those faults whatever they may be before you can try to fix them. Indonesia cannot push Australia around but neither can Australia do the same to Indonesia. Australia and Indonesia should be friends, it benefits both countries to maintain good bilateral relations, A stable and prosperous Indonesia benefits Australia as a stable and prosperous Australia benefits Indonesia. Respect each others sovreinty while being aware of each others feelings but accept that either country will sometimes do things that the other won't like and to just accept this. This happens in everyday friendship.


The thing I really didn't like about him though and where he lost my respect was his attitude towards East Timor, he took pleasure from their sufferings and even at times seem to wish them more suffering, why? All because his national pride was hurt when they elected for independence.

Regarding friendship between Indonesia and Australia: I hope that I can at some stage meet a few of the people in this forum. I already have some Indonesian friends, so I think it would be a good idea, if on my next trip I could actually meet some of the writers on this forum. Real-life contact is the best way to get to know people.

Congrats to Kevin Rudd!! Hope he would bring improvement to the Indonesian-Australian relations.

Leader from Labor party usually have more "friendly approach" to Asia and Indonesia.
Less pro USA, and he even swear to withdraw Australian forces from Iraq.

wonder if our australian buddy Ralf actually met any of the forummers in Indonesia???

Congratulations! Indonesia is among the first nations he visits. I sincerely hope he will prove his words of a more friendly approach to his neighbors

He was a former diplomat in China and speaks fluent Mandarin. I don't know if he really intends withdrawing troops from Iraq, it wasn't a big campaign slogan. He has said the first 3 things he wants to do are 1) scrap workchoices 2) formal apology to Aboriginal people and 3) ratify Kyoto Protocol. Along there somewhere he also wants to increase spending in education, the funding to Universities and for every high school student to have a laptop by 2010.

Politicians though have a habit of saying one thing before the election and something completely different after. The good thing about him is that he is not affliated with any union and he has managed to overcome factional issues within the Labor party. So fingers crossed.

Kevin Rudd seems a bit dodgy to me....I don't know why? I just hope WE (Aus.Indo) become more closer friends
btw we are neighbours aren't we?

I dunno, to me little Johnny Howard was more dodgy. Well, we'll see. Politicians often look squeky clean and say all the right things before an election, but change their tune when they get into office.

I do hope we forge closer ties though, regardless of which leaders are in office.

But Australia ratify Kyoto Protocol.
That's a good sign....

Yeah....thats good to ratify the Kyoto Protocol...but it's a bit too little too late...we're going to have a new one anyway...I hope they name it the Bali Protocol or so...LOL

I'm waiting for good news from the conference...

Asian biatches.

No one in Australia butchered any Indonesians here but your country give one gigantic bomb to Australians taking a vacation in Bali.

So who's to blame?

If your own country's government took steps to boost up security none of this would happen.

And did I forgot to mention that during the Tsunami disaster in 2004 killed millions of Indonesians and you receive $25 million Aussie dollars for emergency relief so your country can rebuild whatever that has been destroyed.

With this in mind I think in the future we shouldn't be so generous to any of you Indonesians since you're all not so thankful for our help.
Maybe we should not help you at all and leave your people homeless and starving.

It's like a wounded person who refuses help and dies in the end.

Well if your country falls its your own fault.

Wow....those are strong words Bringer of Death....!!! I hope you thought carefully before you said that...
For One to understand the real story ...One must know 2 sides of the story...

Yeah........ I always hope that the increase in communication and sharing through forums such as this can build bridges between different cultures.

Gee..... Sorry, I was so busy trying to sort things out with Dewi that I did not have time to seek out any of our Indonesian writers, but next time I go to Indonesia I will try to ask to meet one or two of them for coffee or teh botol or whatever.

You must have read all the previous posts. Its all water under the bridge now and most of it instigated by one person who's not here anymore. Its best to let sleeping dogs lie.

There will always be things that we disagree about but we need to learn to approach things responsibly.

Some people have got their heads so far up their arses that the only thing they approach is $hit.
(That's aimed at the retard posters, not you Doc.)

Looks like you are the Biatch. Australia have no choice but help. and why not...maybe forging closer ties to a country with abundant resources will be beneficial in future? or did u believe that the donation came with no ulterior motives?? Nothing comes with ulterior motives...even u wanted a certain type of treatment that came with the 25m donation that u did not even make.

when i said you, of course i do not mean Australia...because Australia did give the money..but you had no choice in that matter. Let's see, The government takes taxes from you ( you have NO choice about that). the government decide to "donate" to Indonesia ( you have NO choice about that either) so stop thinking that it's your money...it's not anymore once you have no right to it.

The wounded person has not even started asking....help comes quickly as he notices the ample riches that the wounded have.

if i were u i'll better watch my mouth over the B word, dude australia govt are quite happy to help indonesia bcoz it's our neighbour, if the neighbour is unfriendly, will the countries further than neighbours are reliable?

Although a large percentage of donations did come from the Australian govnt, a large percentage also did come from the Australian people themselves, donating their own money.
I agree with you that govnts rarely do anything that in some way achieves something for themselves but, when the Australian people themselves gave, they had nothing to gain personally.
I forgot to add, Australia does not need resources, we have plenty of our own, we export most of it.

@Bringer_Of_Death,
since I ve never been to aussie ,
I have no idea whats going on there, and cant judge the people too much but, seems they still dun lyk asian eh?
thats okay , we still treat ur ppl in in a good way. "hi mister"

oh in case if that type of women u lyk
you can find lots of 'biatch' here at block M area or taman lawang, dont forget to use condom tho ...

Nah Australia is fine mate....Trust me...
I'm Indonesian and lived here and i don't get discriminated....it's fine and great..

Where do you live? Studying here or moved over permanently?

Me...umm i wont tell here..everyone then can see it...lol sorry
use the pm swingdoctor

What Australia has that sets it apart from many other western countries you may have heard about is this:

The Australian way of life is currently embracing multi-culturalism and many nationalities live in relative harmony. 'Relative' harmony - no one is perfect so don't expect us to be.

But the word Australian is becoming more and more synomous with Multi-culturalism - to the disgrace of a few rednecks (convict whites - sorry but I'll always be racist against white trash who came here in chains thinking they own this country)
Therefore, I'm sure you lot will like it here - just remember - keep things clean

We enjoy our environment here.

It will be interesting to see how Aus/Indo relations change under the Rudd government.
Prime Minister Howard lost the mutual security agreement with the Jakarta administration and had to scramble to re-establish it.
I wonder what kind of political and cultural progress can be made under Kevin Rudd ?

ohh yes it would be interesting...hahah last time i said Kevin Rudd is a bit doggy to me and now i think he is one of the greatest Pm Aus. have ever had...I can see there are lots of improvement in Australia. Australia is like my second country now...It would be sad to leave aus. If i wasn't Indonesian i would like to be an Australian.....hahahaha