Hiya, just wonder if anyone from china knows about the
Russian Red army and its particular conduct in rapes in northeast
china, when they defeated japanese imperial army.

I'll post some references that they did in East Europe. They did
it very widely from Poland, Hungary to Germany, and it's
not much obscure fact anymore.

Any info you know would be useful.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...4/ixworld.html
It was not until the winter of 1946-47 that the Soviet authorities, concerned by the spread of disease, imposed serious penalties on their forces in East Germany for fraternising with the enemy.

Soviet soldiers saw rape, often carried out in front of a woman's husband and family, as an appropriate way of humiliating the Germans, who had treated Slavs as an inferior race with whom sexual relations were discouraged. Russia's patriarchal society and the habit of binge-drinking were also factors, but more important was resentment at the discovery of Germany's comparative wealth.

The fact, highlighted by Beevor, that Soviet troops raped not only Germans but also their victims, recently liberated from concentration camps, suggests that the sexual violence was often indiscriminate, although far fewer Russian or Polish women were raped when their areas were liberated compared to the conquered Germans.

Jews, however, were not necessarily regarded by Soviet troops as fellow victims of the Nazis. The Soviet commissars had commandeered German concentration camps in order to incarcerate their own political prisoners, who included "class enemies" as well as Nazi officials, and their attitude towards the previous inmates was, to say the least, unsentimental.

As for the millions of Russian prisoners or slave workers who survived the Nazis: those who were not executed as traitors or sent to the Gulag could count themselves lucky. The women among them were probably treated no better than the Germans, perhaps worse.

The rape of Germany left a bitter legacy. It contributed to the unpopularity of the East German communist regime and its consequent reliance on the Stasi secret police. The victims themselves were permanently traumatised: women of the wartime generation still refer to the Red Army war memorial in Berlin as "the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist".

http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs9512d.html
As the Red Army advanced toward her in 1945, the city of Berlin had become a city virtually without men. Out of a civilian population of 2,700,000, 2,000,000 were women. It is small wonder that the fear of sexual attack raced through the city like a plague. Doctors were besieged by patients seeking information on the quickest way to commit suicide, and poison was in great demand.

In Berlin stood a charity institution, the Haus Dehlem, an orphanage, maternity hospital, and foundling home. Soviet soldiers entered the home, and repeatedly raped pregnant women and women who had just given birth. This was not an isolated incident. No one will ever know how many women were raped, but doctors' estimates run as high as 100,000 for the city of Berlin alone, their ages ranging from 10 to 70.

On March 24, 1945, our "noble Soviet allies" entered Danzig. A 50-year-old Danzig teacher reported that her niece, 15, was raped seven times, and her other niece, 22, was raped fifteen times. A Soviet officer told a group of women to seek safety in the Cathedral. Once they were securely locked inside, the beasts of Bolshevism entered, and ringing the bells and playing the organ, "celebrated" a foul orgy through the night, raping all the women, some more than thirty times. A Catholic pastor in Danzig declared, "They violated even eight-year-old girls and shot boys who tried to shield their mothers."

The Most Reverend Bernard Griffin, British Archbishop, made a tour of Europe to study conditions there, and reported, "In Vienna alone they raped 100,000 women, not once but many times, including girls not yet in their teens, and aged women."

A Lutheran pastor in Germany, in a letter of August 7, 1945, to the Bishop of Chichester, England, describes how a fellow pastor's "two daughters and a grandchild (ten years of age) suffer from gonorrhea, [as a] result of rape" and how "Mrs. N. was killed when she resisted an attempt to rape her," while her daughter was "raped and deported, allegedly to Omsk, Siberia, for indoctrination."

The day after our noble Soviet allies conquered Neisse, Silesia, 182 Catholic nuns were raped. In the diocese of Kattowitz 66 pregnant nuns were counted. In one convent when the Mother Superior and her assistant tried to protect the younger nuns with outstretched arms, they were shot down. A priest reported in Nord Amerika magazine for November 1, 1945, that he knew "several villages where all the women, even the aged and girls as young as twelve, were violated daily for weeks by the Russians."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...707835,00.html
Calls to avenge the Motherland, violated by the Wehrmacht's invasion, had given the idea that almost any cruelty would be allowed. Even many young women soldiers and medical staff in the Red Army did not appear to disapprove. "Our soldiers' behaviour towards Germans, particularly German women, is absolutely correct!" said a 21-year-old from Agranenko's reconnaissance detachment. A number seemed to find it amusing. Several German women recorded how Soviet servicewomen watched and laughed when they were raped. But some women were deeply shaken by what they witnessed in Germany. Natalya Gesse, a close friend of the scientist Andrei Sakharov, had observed the Red Army in action in 1945 as a Soviet war correspondent. "The Russian soldiers were raping every German female from eight to eighty," she recounted later. "It was an army of rapists."

Drink of every variety, including dangerous chemicals seized from laboratories and workshops, was a major factor in the violence. It seems as if Soviet soldiers needed alcoholic courage to attack a woman. But then, all too often, they drank too much and, unable to complete the act, used the bottle instead with appalling effect. A number of victims were mutilated obscenely.

The subject of the Red Army's mass rapes in Germany has been so repressed in Russia that even today veterans refuse to acknowledge what really happened. The handful prepared to speak openly, however, are totally unrepentant. "They all lifted their skirts for us and lay on the bed," said the leader of one tank company. He even went on to boast that "two million of our children were born" in Germany.

The capacity of Soviet officers to convince themselves that most of the victims were either happy with their fate, or at least accepted that it was their turn to suffer after what the Wehrmacht had done in Russia, is striking. "Our fellows were so sex-starved," a Soviet major told a British journalist at the time, "that they often raped old women of sixty, seventy or even eighty - much to these grandmothers' surprise, if not downright delight."

One can only scratch at the surface of the psychological contradictions. When gang-raped women in Königsberg begged their attackers afterwards to put them out of their misery, the Red Army men appear to have felt insulted. "Russian soldiers do not shoot women," they replied. "Only German soldiers do that." The Red Army had managed to convince itself that because it had assumed the moral mission to liberate Europe from fascism it could behave entirely as it liked, both personally and politically.

ugh. i feel like throwing up now.

If you like, I have more of these...


SOVIET RAPES IN BERLIN: UNKNOWN TOTAL

The official figures for Berlin rapes by Soviet troops does exist but has never been published. However, Berlin’s former mayor, Ernst Reuter, said that the figure given him was 90,000. In 1945, Berlin had a population of some 2,700,000 of which about 2,000,000 were women. Many rapes of course were never reported and the figure of 90,000 includes only hospitalized cases and doctors reports. Some 10,000 women in Berlin died as a result of rape. The death rate was thought to have been much higher among the 1.4 million estimated victims in East Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania. Doctors were besieged by women seeking information on the best way to commit suicide. A charity institution, orphanage and maternity hospital, 'Haus Dehlem ' was forcibly entered by second line Russian troops and pregnant women and women who had just given birth were repeatedly raped. In the Soviet Zone of Germany nearly 90% of females ages between 10 and 80 were raped in what undoubtedly was the largest case of mass rape in history. This included women expelled from the eastern provinces.

Most German children born in Berlin in 1946 were the result of rape. Women and young girls were forcibly dragged from their homes and raped, the drunken Soviet Mongolian soldiers queuing up to await their turn. For two whole weeks these mass rapes of women continued. Some Jewish women, thinking that their nationality would save them, showed their identity cards to the rapists but none of them could even read. Marshal Zhukov issued orders that any soldier caught in the act of rape after the two week period was up, was to be shot on the spot. Many a Russian soldier met his end this way. Between 1942 and 1945, a total of 2,420 rapes were reported in England, 3,620 in France and more than 11,040 in Germany. No US soldier was ever executed for rape in Germany. As one GI wrote ' Many a sane American family would recoil in horror if they knew how 'our boys' over here conduct themselves'. The only way many German mothers could keep their children from starving was to become a mistress to one of the occupying troops. (It is estimated that around two million German women had undergone an illegal abortion in the three years after the war ended)

What the fu-k was up with them?

somebody post up a thread about german atrocities in the soviet union.

Hey, that's what I'm asking. OOps.. I didn't write my question...

I wanted to ask if you know anything about Soviet troops in Northeast china
in 1945, when they enter Manchuria to defeat japanese army.

I heard Soviet soldiers raped many japanese females regardless of ages,
but also heard that they did not discriminate chinese women.

^ We were not the enemy.

wth?

man, that part about raping 80 year old women, and saying they "enjoyed" it was really disgusting.

If you read the quote up there, they raped Polish/Hungarian women, and
even Ukrainian women who was in the forced labor for German.

Nor was hungry,poland or romania.

Oh found one pic. there you go. I'll delete this later as it's too offensive for the discussion forum


The above leaflet was released in both Chinese and Korean versions. There was a note on the Korean version stating “This is a United Nations message to the Communist Chinese forces. Post it for them to see.” The Chinese version depicts a Chinese woman being raped by a horrific looking Russian soldier while two other soldiers hold another poor woman prisoner while they wait their turn. The message, intended for Chinese soldiers fighting in Korea, was for them to stop fighting and return to China to "Guard your Homes and Protect Your Country."

The text on the front to the left of the vignette is:

Don’t forget the shame inflicted upon the Chinese people during the Soviet advance into Northeast China during the autumn of 1945. Even Chinese mothers and sisters did not escape!

Russia is still walking boldly there.

Guard your homes and protect your country against continued Soviet aggression.

This leaflet might not be just the usual propaganda. One non-forgiving Korean now living in the United States told me:

When the Soviet Soldiers entered North Korea in 1945, they committed terrible rapes and other crimes as they had in the other occupied countries in Eastern Europe and Manchuria. The Soviet Union deployed penal soldiers in the front lines as the expendable undesirables. They were the most despicable sub-humans and deserved to be killed.

Millions of women victims raped by Russian soldiers during the last months of World War II. Anthony Beevor's book "Berlin -- The Downfall 1945" documents rape by Russian soldiers. "Beevor's conclusions are that in response to the vast scale of casualties inflicted on them by the Germans the Soviets responded in kind, and that included rape on a vast scale. It started as soon as the Red Army entered East Prussia and Silesia in 1944, and in many towns and villages every female aged from 10 to 80 was raped." The author "was 'shaken to the core' to discover that even their own Russian and Polish women and girls liberated from German concentration camps were also violated." He estimates that "a 'high proportion' of at least 15 million women who lived in the Soviet zone or were expelled from Germany's eastern provinces were raped." Until recent years, East German women from the World War II era referred to the Red Army war memorial in Berlin as "the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist."


++++++++++++++

so they raped about estimated 15 million East European women + 2 million German women. Am I right in caluculations?
This figure could be mumbo jumbo, though.

I don't have figure at the moment, but in case of japanese women from age 6 to 80, most of them living in Manchuria
were raped, or gang raped by Soviet Soldier, just like what happened in East Europe. But the mystery is chinese and korean people living in that region at the time. Do you have any idea?

The irony of WWII is it was a war as much about broken treaties as axis v.s allied powers. England France and the USSR all ignored mutual defence treaties signed with countries like Poland Hungry and Romania. Had the 3 major powers in Europe honered the treaties WWII may have been a footnote in history. The USSR paid the price for getting in bed with Hitler when Stalin signed the nonagression pact with Germany. None of the above countries reacted when Germany started breaking the cease fire treaties of WWI. As a result Germany became the military power the treaty was meant to prevent. The USA has some blame as they tried to stay out of the conflict pretending it was someone elses problem. Had Japan waited even 1 year to attack even The USA's industrial might may have been overcome. But could haves and would haves equal the same thing. 10 pounds of BS in a 5 pound sack. The USSR never had to answer up because they were on the winning side. Every country had men in uniform commit crimes. But only a few on a large scale.

so you knew this? aren;t there any more info in china?

I knew the history of the east european side of the war and of Japans crimes. I wasn't really sure about china though. I do know this as far as history is concerned Russia has never been known for its compassion or its ability to abide by treaties .

When major wars break out, all hell breaks loose. The Berlin Rape is a old story. It was also how Russians make revenge on Germans, since Russia lost something like 20 millions people in WW2. On the flip side, Japanese should be really grateful how Chinese conducted themselves after the war. A lot of Chinese even adopted Japanese children left behind by thier parents in Manchuria.

That's true. Chinese soldiers were probably ranked the noblest given the loss done by imperial japanese army. It was strange that Russian revenged for the sake of chinese. But the idea of mass rapes by Russian is horrific. I'd never want hear anyone condoning them.

Jews did also revenge on German. From 1945 to 1950, German POW death ratio was about 50%, and Stalins appointed jewish officer to search the ex-Nazis, and torture them.

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One thing I feel not sure about Soviet soldier is that I didn't hear the testimony and record of chinese women raped or gang raped as much as in East Europe. I just wondered why.

Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as "Russian atrocity in China" If you really want to come up with something why don't you check more propaganda posters from opposite sides.

Any war is bad. During the war people kills each other. As much you kill enemy, you 'll be awarded. So i guess raping is not that bad at all compare to killing. Raped person will stay alive better off being dead. Each war has atrocity due to participating individuals corrupt nature.

Hey, why don't you just stfu instead of talking straight out of your @$$? Seriously, it's nice to hear about how Mongolians love to suck up to Russians since they helped you "gain" independence. Do that in your own forum, not ours. Yes, I've heard about this disgusting $hit from my grandparents regarding what they did in the Northeast region and the Korean peninsula. I don't know whether or not they conducted systematic mass rapes or not like the Japanese though.

It has nothing to do with nationalities. I said WAR is WAR.
Main thing is that instead rumor or propaganda posters, you should coma up with the facts.

Plus there is no need to use words like STFU or @$$ or $hit. Where is your good old confusian manner?. I am not really fond of Russia, but i acknowledge their role. Some Soviet troops stationed in Mongolia, commited crime like rape or stealing. If they caught immediatelly suspects usually executed / get shot on the spot. Soviet Army consisted of all ethnic groups of USSR.

War? China did not even engage war with the Soviets. On the contrary, they were allies (both ROC/PRC). I will acknowledge that the leaflet is propaganda (I didn't say it wasn't), but the Russians DID commit rapes in Northeast China and on the Korean peninsula. I don't need bloody facts considering my grandparents experienced the changes that happened in the region.

If you didn't outright reject a subject that might've been considered provocative, then I wouldn't have made such comments with that tone - though no harm was intended.

You are using word RUSSIANS ( or it can be any nation) as if all russian soldiers were rapers. I believe that generalization will not help the matter CLEAR.
Ok, German Army (not people of Germany) and Japan Army (not all japanese people) commited atrocities during the WWII. Their brutalities in Russia and China were approved by their Autority/ Command. In that case you are OK to say that Japanese or Germans did bad things like this and that.
If you grandparents experienced rape or anything bad by some Russian soldiers, though i would symphatize with them, but it does not mean Russians did it as Japanese or Germans. I believe that those cases were individual CRIME just like some atrocities in Vietnam by US soldiers.
Spreading rumor will not help to prove guilt of crime. FACT does that

There are legal facts that Allied Army Jews soldiers executed German officers, SS and soldiers on the spot without trial. But it is not counted as atrocities. I can come up with lots of individual crimes of PLA soldiers or PSB cadre recent years from International Human Right sources . But i don't call it as Chinese did this or that. People are good

First of all, where did I say "my grandparents experienced rape"? I didn't. I simply indicated that they experienced the changes that happened during that time. And you know exactly what I meant by "Russians." Of course I wasn't referring to your average Russian guy in Moscow, I was talking about the dumbfu-ks that committed these crimes.

Way to avoid the issue, the Japanese, Germans, the Vietnam War and the PLA have nothing to do with this thread. Don't bring up irrelevant topics when you have nothing else to back yourself up with.

I obviously checked many web sites, but can't find much. That's why I came here.
There may not be any mass rapes by Soviet Soldiers in china, true. But I don't
see any evidence that they did not happen at all.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:qr9yeV...p&ct=clnk&cd=17
The Japanese refugees are housed in a school building a few blocks from us. They are free to move around but very few dare to venture out. The Korean People's Militia guard the Japanese per agreement with Gen. Abe, but the Militia has no jurisdiction over the Soviets. During the night, some Russians openly walk past the Korean guards and rape the women - young and old. All Japanese men shave their head (their custom during WW2) and so the Russians feel around for people with hair. Soon the Japanese women and children shave their head. It is also good for controlling head lice.

The Japanese are not the only ones dying of hunger and disease. The Soviet troops live off the land and we have not much left to eat. There is shortage of everything: the Russians occupy basically all Japanese houses and buildings plus many Korean houses as well; hardly any medical services or medicine; clothing, fire woods, drinking water, etc. Indeed, the disease and famine are killing more Koreans than all of the Koreans killed during the Japanese occupation.

The Russians go after Korean women as well. The People's Militia are helpless. The best the Militia can do is to contact a Russian military police that may or may not intervene. One of my neighbors is raped by a Russian. The rumor has it that the Russian rapist got 'stuck' to the poor woman and the Militia had to carry them both in an ox-cart to a hospital for separation. I guess a Russian penis works just like a dog's .

The Free Love of the Russian Revolution
2003/10/28

A horrible crime took place in Leningrad - on the beach not far from the Petropavlovskaya Fortress in 1927. Thirteen young men brutally gangbanged three girls. Sexual crimes in Russia after the revolution were rather frequent among the working youth. Probably, the above-mentioned case would not have been investigated, if one of the victims had not died. Furthermore, another victim was a daughter of an influential party official.

The investigation was not objective, but it revealed horrible facts. One of the criminals, Fyodor Solovtsov, was an activist of the Komsomol movement. He was known for his sexual deeds too. He had eight intimate partners in his Komsomol unit, forcing them to have love affairs with him. One of the girls refused to be a part of the "revolutionary spirit and morality." Fyodor simply told her that she would lose her room in the dormitory (the girl arrived from a village). He threatened and intimidated other disobedient girls too. To justify his conduct, the sly young man referred to the decree about the collectivization of women which had been issued in 1918. The document pronounced all women between 18 and 32 years old the state property - they were obliged to become members of the "free love bureau." Men between 19 and 50 years old could become members of the bureau too. They could choose any female member, even without her consent. Many historians say that the document was a fake. However, Fyodor Solovtsov used the above-mentioned decree and said that he had organized a department of the free love bureau in his unit. Meetings of the revolutionary youth often ended up in wild orgies. According to the ideology of that time, it was believed that the bourgeois marriage was demeaning to women, it deprived them of equal rights with men. Revolutionaries thought that prostitution was the public exploitation of women - communists were strongly against any kind of human exploitation. That is why, it was believed that free sexual relations between young men and women would put an end to unhealthy marriages and prostitution. Woman named Alexandra Kollontay was a very active proponent of that idea. She was defending free love principles in newspapers and magazines, saying that such love was commitment-free. The 50-year-old woman was saying such things to justify her love affair with Pavel Dybenko, who was 17 years younger than her. A research conducted in 1923 showed, 47 percent of young men and 63 percent of young girls had started leading sex lives before they turned 18. More than 80 percent of men and about 50 percent of women were leading irresponsible sex lives, having three or more partners at once. Such a situation could also be explained with economic conditions. Young people would often move to cities from villages - they had no places to live and no places to work. They could not have normal families because of those obstacles. The distribution of the "revolutionary morality" has brought very sad results. Sexually transmitted diseases became a disaster among the working youth. It turned out in 1927 that a lot of workers were sick with syphilis and other venereal diseases. Young people were catching those diseases from each other, not from prostitutes. A lot of children were born illegitimately, their mothers were unable to feed and grow them. The babies of the revolutionary Eros were becoming orphans, orphans were growing into criminals. The rapists did not plead guilty at court. They claimed that they were acting according to the principles of the revolutionary morality. The trial became rather demonstrative. The criminals were severely punished. Fyodor Solovtsov was executed. His accomplices were sentenced to many years in jail. There were different points of view about the story in the society. Some people wrote furious letters to newspapers, saying that all rapists must be executed. Others, especially the people of the working youth, were trying to justify them: "How can we satisfy our natural needs then? The girls should have agreed upon the request of their comrades. They should have relieved them of the sexual tension, inspired them for new victories of Komsomol and communism! Eros of the Revolution must help young people build the bright future of communism!" an anonymous man wrote in his letter

the russians did steal alot from north eastern china when they "helped" us from kicking the japanese out

All foreign countries in Chinese land were plunders and thieves during that time.

To some people, being raped is worst than death. Specially there were detail accounts that Russians gangraped German teenagers in front thier parents, then turned around rape the wife in front of her husband and daughters. I dont think the husband himself would feel much better than the victims, since he was so helpless and had no mean to protect his wife and daughters.

Germany,Japan, and Russian soldiers were all conscripts. So yes it's ture that pretty much all their young male commited astrocities. Maybe b/c their culture were by nature less civilized. So thier conducts in the war were worst than others.

No, it's because they didn't have any reason to follow a code of honor and they were given opportunities to do so.

The PLA was situatied in China. Their power base were the peasants. They're not raping anything.

^on the other hand, the american sailors are raping......eachother

go the power of buttsecks!

It's not rape if it's consensual.

Russians did commit mass rape in northeast China during the end of WW2. It was nicely swept under the carpet because they were Allies..
But many Northeasterners know well.

I thought soviet was with us

I certainly don't lump People's Liberation Army and Soviet Red Army together.
PLA is more sane controlled army whereas Red Army officers themselves
are rapists at least in Eastern Europe.

You know what they say about submarine sailors. 80 individuals go down 40 couples come back up.


War Dude I told you before its only coincidence that the Navy has the highest rate of hemoroids. I think its caused by the salt air or the pitch and roll of the ship.

I wonder if there were Mongols and Kazakh soldiers in Soviet occupation troops.
Their reputations on the treatment of females are quiet established, so they too
may did something horrible?

Mongolian army did take part liberation of South Mongolia. There is memorial monument for Mongol Soldier in Janchkhuu Pass ( Zhanjiakou pass in Great wall)
If there were such thing as you have mentioned, chinese and Mongolians had enough time to find out, seems like not.
Since you are so interested in Atrocities, why don't you open a thread of Atrocity of Chinese in Tibet or South Mongolia, East Turkestan and so on. Even it might be interesting for you to find out atrocities of Chinese Nationalist, Warlords, CCP or during Cultural revolution.
Good luck

one "hate all forigners" topic more..

i agree with Anda..

were it better for our future, if soviet-mongolian forces gived north-china on korean and mongolian people?


it looks like some pseudo-historicans want to make new "facts" for hate between east-asian states and their people.



because they were good people, who had wishes to end a long WW2 and japanese ocupation in East-Asia.



-

They aren't yours to give.

2

say who?

Everyone.

who everyone?

That's Russian people. Mongolia was a part of Qin dynasty, and russians are afraid that east asia will be in unity lead by china, whether it be mongols, kazakhs, or sibelians, they colonized, and enslaved.



Soviet mongol soldiers partook of Berlin rapes. Maybe they were good people in east asia. I don't know.

yea.. make more hate, you pseudo.

"great china" dreams are dumb and stupid..

like your knowlege about eurasian history..

kasakhs and mongolians were allies against manchurian invasion into central asia and patriotic russian and soviet citizens in a past now in the russian federation and they dont need some arrogant moron from china to find their own future.

mongolian were allies with russians and soviets and have to clear China of nazi-warlords and their arse lickers like you..