QUOTE (danoc @ Apr 4 2006, 11:22 AM) 
Good map. I save it
Good map. I save it
QUOTE (danoc @ Apr 4 2006, 02:04 PM)
hahahaha.
it is not your problem, you idiot.
learn first to respect other people and their ancestors.
Men! what a rasisitic moron!
it is not your problem, you idiot.
learn first to respect other people and their ancestors.
Men! what a rasisitic moron!
Yes, Soviet soldier's atrocity, raping and looting, is not my problem.
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 4 2006, 02:08 PM)
Yes, Soviet soldier's atrocity, raping and looting, is not my problem.
dont rape my words.
you rasistic moron.
QUOTE
Why are you so desperate on this one? Are you Russian half or quarter?]
hahahaha.
it is not your problem, you idiot.
learn first to respect other people and their ancestors.
Men! what a rasisitic moron!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
at: Anda
if you want i can send you more.
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 5 2006, 04:45 AM)
my friend, who do you have problem with? Is that Russian who does not treat you as equal?
We are asian, man. why not be more nice to your fellow asian?
I don't know why you have to feel defending Russian atrocities, namely rapes and gang rapes.
We are asian, man. why not be more nice to your fellow asian?
I don't know why you have to feel defending Russian atrocities, namely rapes and gang rapes.
fellow Asian?
I am so touched. fu-k 
What a lame concept. Maybe it is useful for you to cheat other asians like SEA, certainly not for me. I don't know any Russian, but i can't stand ONE like you. You destroys your fellow countrymen's good imageRape and other crime should be dealt individually, not like you generalizing
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 02:14 PM)
fellow Asian? I am so touched. fu-k What a lame concept. Maybe it is useful for you to cheat other asians like SEA, certainly not for me. I don't know any Russian, but i can't stand ONE like you. You destroys your fellow countrymen's good image
Rape and other crime should be dealt individually, not like you generalizing
I am so touched. fu-k What a lame concept. Maybe it is useful for you to cheat other asians like SEA, certainly not for me. I don't know any Russian, but i can't stand ONE like you. You destroys your fellow countrymen's good imageRape and other crime should be dealt individually, not like you generalizing
Not in the case of mass rapes like Rape of Nanjing. Berlin rapes were also mass rapes, and they shouldn't be dealt individually.
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 4 2006, 02:17 PM)
Not in the case of mass rapes like Rape of Nanjing.
and now you insult all people who were killed by rasistic and fasisitc japanese forces in nanking and china.
you abuse their feeling for your own rasistic and nationalistc agendas.
how cruel, you idiot.
QUOTE
Berlin rapes were also mass rapes, and they shouldn't be dealt individually.
why do you talk all time about Berlin?
are you german?
QUOTE (danoc @ Apr 4 2006, 02:21 PM)
and now you insult all people who weas killed by rasistic and fasisitc japanese forces in nanking and china.
you abuse their feeling for your own rasistic and nationalistc agendas.
how cruel, you idiot.
why do you talk all time about Berlin?
are you german?
you abuse their feeling for your own rasistic and nationalistc agendas.
how cruel, you idiot.
why do you talk all time about Berlin?
are you german?
Your friend said, rapes should be dealt individually. That's why I sais, not in the case of mass rapes.
Example of mass rapes in Berlin are reported in BBC, Guardian, and many other sources. and widely known even i n Russia.
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 02:14 PM)
Rape and other crime should be dealt individually, not like you generalizing
Please answer me in relation to the rapes of Nanjing. How could mass rapes be regarded as just an individual crime?
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 4 2006, 02:27 PM)
Your friend said, rapes should be dealt individually. That's why I sais, not in the case of mass rapes.
Example of mass rapes in Berlin are reported in BBC, Guardian, and many other sources. and widely known even i n Russia.
Example of mass rapes in Berlin are reported in BBC, Guardian, and many other sources. and widely known even i n Russia.
please?
"masse rapes" must be arrange and decrees.
for exsample: as nazis wehrmacht have invade into ukraian territories, many german soldiers have rape many ukraian and soviet women. and 9 month later they have send their illigal children into "arier" orphanage and their mothers into Dachau and other KZ in Ukraina and Poland.
that all with ok and order of hitler and himler.
can you please tell me, where you have found about that russian forces have give order for mass rapes in Berlin?
and why do you talk here in chinese chat about european part of WW2?
you talk like german nazi and revachist.
you use their politican and propaganda tactics for your statements.
you talk like german.
are you german or not?
QUOTE (danoc @ Apr 4 2006, 02:35 PM)
please?
"masse rapes" must be arrange and decrees.
for exsample: as nazis wehrmacht have invade into ukraian territories, many german soldiers have rape many ukraian and russian women. and 9 month later they have send their illigal children into "arier" orphanage and their mothers into Dachau and other KZ in Ukraina and Poland.
that all with ok and order of hitler and himler.
can you please tell me, where you have found about that russian forces have give order for mass rapes in Berlin?
and why do you talk here in chinese chat about european part of WW2?
are you german or not?
"masse rapes" must be arrange and decrees.
for exsample: as nazis wehrmacht have invade into ukraian territories, many german soldiers have rape many ukraian and russian women. and 9 month later they have send their illigal children into "arier" orphanage and their mothers into Dachau and other KZ in Ukraina and Poland.
that all with ok and order of hitler and himler.
can you please tell me, where you have found about that russian forces have give order for mass rapes in Berlin?
and why do you talk here in chinese chat about european part of WW2?
are you german or not?
If you don't want to talk about Berlin rapes. Let's talk about rape of nanjing alone.
First, mass rapes are not needed to be arranged, but rapes to be condoned by the superior of soldiers.
I think that was the case with Soviet soldiers, as the sources up there also imply.
Second, it seems like soviet mass rapes were rampant, and there are no records that they are punished
after the northeast china occupation.
Third, soviet soldiers were reported to rape japanese captives, POWs, and other non-japanese civilians,
although there are no official records just by people's memory.
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 4 2006, 02:41 PM)
If you don't want to talk about Berlin rapes. Let's talk about rape of nanjing alone.
First, mass rapes are not needed to be arranged, but rapes to be condoned by the superior of soldiers.
I think that was the case with Soviet soldiers, as the sources up there also imply.
First, mass rapes are not needed to be arranged, but rapes to be condoned by the superior of soldiers.
I think that was the case with Soviet soldiers, as the sources up there also imply.
what a $hit is that?
are you german or not? answer me, dude!
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 5 2006, 05:17 AM)
Not in the case of mass rapes like Rape of Nanjing. Berlin rapes were also mass rapes, and they shouldn't be dealt individually.
Few soldiers of Red Army did that, so does it mean all Red Army were rapers. I say NO. There is no such term as Berlin rape like "Nanjing rape" which not recognized by Japan at all.
Whole World is still thankful for USSR for bearing most heavy burden of WWII
How about Nazi Germans atrocity in Soviet Union -Belorussia, Ukraine, Russia, Poland and so on?
Germans were also victim of war.
"We learn nothing by blaming them," I.F. Stone wrote in 1961 as Adolf Eichmann went to trial. "We all marched with Eichmann ... whether it was the human incinerator or the H-bomb, we built it." The ensuing half-century of human brutality has illustrated this all too well, and those fateful place names that have joined Auschwitz in our atlas of evil -- Phnom Penh, Cambodia; Halabja, Iraq; Srebrenica, Bosnia; Kigali, Rwanda -- are a painful reminder that "never again" was a wish and not a binding vow on mankind. It has taken that half-century to allow the recognition that, in Germany as elsewhere, among perpetrators there are also victims; "A Woman in Berlin" reminds us that the exclusivity of these categories is little more than a fable.
It was a woman diary...
QUOTE (danoc @ Apr 4 2006, 02:45 PM)
what a $hit is that?
are you german or not? answer me, dude!
are you german or not? answer me, dude!
No.
Example of russian cruelty and brutality can be exhibited by Chechen war.
QUOTE
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/russ-atrocities.html
"I remember a Chechen female sniper. We just tore her apart with two armored personnel carriers, having tied her ankles with steel cables. There was a lot of blood, but the boys needed it."
"The main thing is to have them die slowly. You don't want them to die fast, because a fast death is an easy death."
"The summary executions don't just take place against suspected fighters. One 33-year-old army officer recounted how he drowned a family of five--four women and a middle-aged man--in their own well."
"You should not believe people who say Chechens are not being exterminated. In this Chechen war, it's done by everyone who can do it," he said. "There are situations when it's not possible. But when an opportunity presents itself, few people miss it."
"I would kill all the men I met during mopping-up operations. I didn't feel sorry for them one bit."
"It's much easier to kill them all. It takes less time for them to die than to grow."
"So there will be one Chechen less on the planet, so what? Who will cry for him?"
WAR HAS NO RULES FOR RUSSIAN FORCES BATTLING CHECHEN REBELS
Troops admit committing atrocities against guerrillas and civilians.
It's part of the military culture of impunity, they say.
But many now have troubled consciences.
By MAURA REYNOLDS
Times Staff Writer
Los Angeles Times, Sunday, 17 Sept, MOSCOW:
They call it bespredel--literally, "no limits." It means acting outside the rules, violently and with impunity. It translates as "excesses" or "atrocities."
It's the term Russian soldiers use to describe their actions in Chechnya.
"Without bespredel, we'll get nowhere in Chechnya," a 21-year-old conscript explained. "We have to be cruel to them. Otherwise, we'll achieve nothing."
Since Russia launched a new war against separatist rebels in its republic of Chechnya a year ago, Russian and Western human rights organizations have collected thousands of pages of testimony from victims about human rights abuses committed by Russian servicemen against Chechen civilians and suspected rebel fighters.
To hear the other side of the story, a Times reporter traveled to more than half a dozen regions around Russia and interviewed more than two dozen Russian servicemen returning from the war front.
What they recounted largely matches the picture painted in the human rights reports: The men freely acknowledge that acts considered war crimes under international law not only take place but are also commonplace.
In fact, most admitted committing such acts themselves--everything from looting to summary executions to torture.
"There was bespredel all the time," one 35-year-old soldier said. "You can't let it get to you."
The servicemen say atrocities aren't directly ordered from above; instead, they result from a Russian military culture that glorifies ardor in battle, portrays the enemy as inhuman and has no effective system of accountability.
"Your army is based on professionalism," said a 27-year-old paratrooper who served alongside U.S. troops as a peacekeeper in Bosnia-Herzegovina. "Our army is based on fervor."
Russian officials, including the Kremlin's war spokesman, Sergei V. Yastrzhembsky, have criticized the human rights reports, saying they are riddled with rumor and rebel propaganda.
"I remember a Chechen female sniper. We just tore her apart with two armored personnel carriers, having tied her ankles with steel cables. There was a lot of blood, but the boys needed it."
"The main thing is to have them die slowly. You don't want them to die fast, because a fast death is an easy death."
"The summary executions don't just take place against suspected fighters. One 33-year-old army officer recounted how he drowned a family of five--four women and a middle-aged man--in their own well."
"You should not believe people who say Chechens are not being exterminated. In this Chechen war, it's done by everyone who can do it," he said. "There are situations when it's not possible. But when an opportunity presents itself, few people miss it."
"I would kill all the men I met during mopping-up operations. I didn't feel sorry for them one bit."
"It's much easier to kill them all. It takes less time for them to die than to grow."
"So there will be one Chechen less on the planet, so what? Who will cry for him?"
WAR HAS NO RULES FOR RUSSIAN FORCES BATTLING CHECHEN REBELS
Troops admit committing atrocities against guerrillas and civilians.
It's part of the military culture of impunity, they say.
But many now have troubled consciences.
By MAURA REYNOLDS
Times Staff Writer
Los Angeles Times, Sunday, 17 Sept, MOSCOW:
They call it bespredel--literally, "no limits." It means acting outside the rules, violently and with impunity. It translates as "excesses" or "atrocities."
It's the term Russian soldiers use to describe their actions in Chechnya.
"Without bespredel, we'll get nowhere in Chechnya," a 21-year-old conscript explained. "We have to be cruel to them. Otherwise, we'll achieve nothing."
Since Russia launched a new war against separatist rebels in its republic of Chechnya a year ago, Russian and Western human rights organizations have collected thousands of pages of testimony from victims about human rights abuses committed by Russian servicemen against Chechen civilians and suspected rebel fighters.
To hear the other side of the story, a Times reporter traveled to more than half a dozen regions around Russia and interviewed more than two dozen Russian servicemen returning from the war front.
What they recounted largely matches the picture painted in the human rights reports: The men freely acknowledge that acts considered war crimes under international law not only take place but are also commonplace.
In fact, most admitted committing such acts themselves--everything from looting to summary executions to torture.
"There was bespredel all the time," one 35-year-old soldier said. "You can't let it get to you."
The servicemen say atrocities aren't directly ordered from above; instead, they result from a Russian military culture that glorifies ardor in battle, portrays the enemy as inhuman and has no effective system of accountability.
"Your army is based on professionalism," said a 27-year-old paratrooper who served alongside U.S. troops as a peacekeeper in Bosnia-Herzegovina. "Our army is based on fervor."
Russian officials, including the Kremlin's war spokesman, Sergei V. Yastrzhembsky, have criticized the human rights reports, saying they are riddled with rumor and rebel propaganda.
http://www.iwpr.net/?apc_state=hruicrs2002&l=en&s=f&o=161403
But didn't he cry out that he was a policeman? "Of course," said Sagipov, "They said, 'You're all one band! We will shoot you all! You are sheltering fighters!' Then they tied me up and threw me into the back of a military truck on top of live bodies. They were other policemen who had tried to defend their fellow-villagers from looting and rape. When I tried to lift my head or move it, they immediately kicked me in the head or beat me with a rifle-butt."
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 02:47 PM)
Few soldiers of Red Army did that, so does it mean all Red Army were rapers. I say NO. There is no such term as Berlin rape like "Nanjing rape" which not recognized by Japan at all.
Whole World is still thankful for USSR for bearing most heavy burden of WWII
Whole World is still thankful for USSR for bearing most heavy burden of WWII
Both atrocities are actually officially recognized but Russian and Japanaese hyper-nationalists tried to bend them as if nothing happened there.
How desperate attemp. Now i know, what is your problem. You hate Russia, don't you?
I wish to put you among Chechen rebels. ??? You must be REAL @$$hole if you are siding with with child-killer-chechen-cowards (remember Beslan school hostage) in order to express hatred against Russians.
I wish to put you among Chechen rebels. ??? You must be REAL @$$hole if you are siding with with child-killer-chechen-cowards (remember Beslan school hostage) in order to express hatred against Russians.
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 02:59 PM)
How desperate attemp. Now i know, what is your problem. You hate Russia, don't you?
I wish to put you among Chechen rebels. ???
I wish to put you among Chechen rebels. ???
I hate injustices continuing. I hate mass rapes, and I hate mistreatment of women. I hate violences.
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 5 2006, 05:58 AM)
Both atrocities are actually officially recognized but Russian and Japanaese hyper-nationalists tried to bend them as if nothing happened there.
Show me fact of official recognition of both governments. Governtments are not hyper-nationalists
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 5 2006, 06:01 AM)
I hate injustices continuing. I hate mass rapes, and I hate mistreatment of women. I hate violences.
We all hate those crimes
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 4 2006, 02:48 PM)
No.
Example of russian cruelty and brutality can be exhibited by Chechen war.
Example of russian cruelty and brutality can be exhibited by Chechen war.
really?
i think you are german nazi.
you talk to good german gramatic and german art of speech.
you want to talk about how cruel it in a tchechenian wars in rusian federation was?
i do question me, why do you speack about other wars and other worldparts in a chinese chat.
and only about how "cruel" a russian soldiers are?
do you want to prove us, that it is normal in russian "race" to have bad people?
i can tell you about how many christian people (and only russian, but ossetians, georgian and other majorities in tchechenia. you must know, 70% of people in tchechenia were not tchechen)) were killed, raped and stolen by tchechen and forign "dshihad wariors" (simple merchant soldiers bought with saudiearabian, islamistic and drug money) from arbian and iranian countries?
most of them have killed a tchechen and their neighbours, you idiot.
why do you think do flee most tchechenian civil people into russian territories and not into other countries.
i have lost many friends in this wars. (tchechenian, georgians, kasahks, russians)
and they have tell me that most of this "tchechenian" cannot speak russian, or kaukasian languages.
but good arabian and pakistanian dialects.
QUOTE
I hate injustices continuing. I hate mass rapes, and I hate mistreatment of women. I hate violences.
really?
therefore you are rasist and wants new wars in asia?
-
-
Do they teach you any proper English in Soviet Mongolia? fu-king learn the language before acting like some bigshot English nazi.
As for "Chinese atrocities," go cry me a fu-king river. Should the PRC reunite with the ROC, Outer Mongolia and Outer Dongbei will come back eventually, deal with it.
As for "Chinese atrocities," go cry me a fu-king river. Should the PRC reunite with the ROC, Outer Mongolia and Outer Dongbei will come back eventually, deal with it.
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 03:05 PM)
Show me fact of official recognition of both governments. Governtments are not hyper-nationalists
We all hate those crimes
We all hate those crimes
QUOTE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
Current situation in Japan
In Japan, as far as Japanese academics are concerned, the controversy over the existence of atrocities ended in the early 1990s. Both sides accept that killings did occur; however, disagreement exists over the actual numbers, which depends on the standard of inclusion of archival or anecdotal evidence, definition of the period of the massacre, as well as geographical coverage.
Currently, no notable group, including right-wing nationalists, deny the occurrence of the killings and the debate has shifted mainly to the death toll, to the extent of rapes and civilian killings (as opposed to POW and suspected guerrillas) and to the appropriateness of using the word "massacre". Apologists insist that burial records from the Red Swastika Society and the Chung Shan Tang (Tsung Shan Tong) were never cross-examined at the Tokyo and Nanjing trials, arguing therefore that the estimates derived from these two sets of records should be heavily discounted. They also admit that personal records of Japanese soldiers do suggest the occurrence of rapes, but insist that this does not determine the extent of rapes. Moreover, they regard personal testimonies from the Chinese side to be propaganda. They also point out that there are no documented records of the rapes, unlike the burial records that exist and document the killings, and therefore argue that the assertion of mass rape is unsubstantiated. They further insist that the majority of those killed were POWs and "suspected guerrillas", which they consider to be legitimate killing, so that the use of descriptive word "massacre" is inappropriate.
However, within the public the debate still continues. Those downplaying the massacre have most recently rallied around a group of academic and journalists associated with the Society for the Creation of New Textbooks. Their views are often shared in publications associated with right-wing publishers such as Bungei Shunjū and Sankei Shuppan. In response, two Japanese organizations have taken the lead in publishing material detailing the massacre and collecting related documents and accounts. The Study Group on the Nanjing Incident, founded by a group of historians in 1984, has published the most books responding directly to revisionist historians; the Center for Research and Documentation on Japan's War Responsibility, founded in 1993, has published many materials in its own journal. Like the academics, the general Japanese public are also divided in their opinions of the Massacre. While young Japanese were now taught that atrocities did occur, many continue to believe that the Massacre is hugely exaggerated in both scale and number by Chinese politicians using it as an offensive charge to scupper Japan's reputation in the world community. As such some continue to question the veracity of the Massacre's evidence, as seen in proliferation of private websites set up for nationalistic purposes. Other Japanese severely criticize this attitude and urge widespread admission of Japanese war crimes by active compensation of war victims.
The Society for the Creation of New Textbooks produced history textbooks for junior high school and submitted them to the Ministry of Education. The Ministry ordered corrections in 137 places. After the corrections, the book passed the 2001 inspection. This has again caused fury from China and Korea, both sides demanding reinspection. The book was published and wrongly appeared to be a best-seller, because of the systematic distribution of most of the 750,000 copies by the Society for the Creation of New Textbooks. However the 2002 rate of adoption of this textbook in schools was only 0.039%.
Current situation in Japan
In Japan, as far as Japanese academics are concerned, the controversy over the existence of atrocities ended in the early 1990s. Both sides accept that killings did occur; however, disagreement exists over the actual numbers, which depends on the standard of inclusion of archival or anecdotal evidence, definition of the period of the massacre, as well as geographical coverage.
Currently, no notable group, including right-wing nationalists, deny the occurrence of the killings and the debate has shifted mainly to the death toll, to the extent of rapes and civilian killings (as opposed to POW and suspected guerrillas) and to the appropriateness of using the word "massacre". Apologists insist that burial records from the Red Swastika Society and the Chung Shan Tang (Tsung Shan Tong) were never cross-examined at the Tokyo and Nanjing trials, arguing therefore that the estimates derived from these two sets of records should be heavily discounted. They also admit that personal records of Japanese soldiers do suggest the occurrence of rapes, but insist that this does not determine the extent of rapes. Moreover, they regard personal testimonies from the Chinese side to be propaganda. They also point out that there are no documented records of the rapes, unlike the burial records that exist and document the killings, and therefore argue that the assertion of mass rape is unsubstantiated. They further insist that the majority of those killed were POWs and "suspected guerrillas", which they consider to be legitimate killing, so that the use of descriptive word "massacre" is inappropriate.
However, within the public the debate still continues. Those downplaying the massacre have most recently rallied around a group of academic and journalists associated with the Society for the Creation of New Textbooks. Their views are often shared in publications associated with right-wing publishers such as Bungei Shunjū and Sankei Shuppan. In response, two Japanese organizations have taken the lead in publishing material detailing the massacre and collecting related documents and accounts. The Study Group on the Nanjing Incident, founded by a group of historians in 1984, has published the most books responding directly to revisionist historians; the Center for Research and Documentation on Japan's War Responsibility, founded in 1993, has published many materials in its own journal. Like the academics, the general Japanese public are also divided in their opinions of the Massacre. While young Japanese were now taught that atrocities did occur, many continue to believe that the Massacre is hugely exaggerated in both scale and number by Chinese politicians using it as an offensive charge to scupper Japan's reputation in the world community. As such some continue to question the veracity of the Massacre's evidence, as seen in proliferation of private websites set up for nationalistic purposes. Other Japanese severely criticize this attitude and urge widespread admission of Japanese war crimes by active compensation of war victims.
The Society for the Creation of New Textbooks produced history textbooks for junior high school and submitted them to the Ministry of Education. The Ministry ordered corrections in 137 places. After the corrections, the book passed the 2001 inspection. This has again caused fury from China and Korea, both sides demanding reinspection. The book was published and wrongly appeared to be a best-seller, because of the systematic distribution of most of the 750,000 copies by the Society for the Creation of New Textbooks. However the 2002 rate of adoption of this textbook in schools was only 0.039%.
Russian recognition of Berlin is in the quote in my first post, please read through all.
QUOTE (shashoujian @ Apr 5 2006, 06:07 AM)
Do they teach you any proper English in Soviet Mongolia? fu-king learn the language before acting like some bigshot English nazi.
As for "Chinese atrocities," go cry me a fu-king river. Should the PRC reunite with the ROC, Outer Mongolia and Outer Dongbei will come back eventually, deal with it.
As for "Chinese atrocities," go cry me a fu-king river. Should the PRC reunite with the ROC, Outer Mongolia and Outer Dongbei will come back eventually, deal with it.
KID, do your homework
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 03:16 PM)
KID, do your homework
Thanks, but no thanks. Don't you have an ESL teacher to meet today? Or are you using an online translator?
2
QUOTE (shashoujian @ Apr 4 2006, 03:17 PM)
Thanks, but no thanks. Don't you have an ESL teacher to meet today? Or are you using an online translator? 2
2go away, and insult someother.
QUOTE (shashoujian @ Apr 5 2006, 06:17 AM)
Thanks, but no thanks. Don't you have an ESL teacher to meet today? Or are you using an online translator? 2
2We better to learn more English, don't we? Would give more information of that online translator. i want to know about
I would wish that anybody in this forum gives some ideas on russian behaviours in northeast china when they occupied after defeating japanese army.
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 03:21 PM)
We better to learn more English, don't we? Would give more information of that online translator. i want to know about
hey brave Mongolian person. Wassup. Mongolia is a beautiful country with great landscapes. I understand that Mongolia is very isolated country right now, thus your need for attention of Chinese friends here. Here you got my attention.
QUOTE (Mightycandy @ Apr 5 2006, 02:47 AM)
hey brave Mongolian person. Wassup. Mongolia is a beautiful country with great landscapes. I understand that Mongolia is very isolated country right now, thus your need for attention of Chinese friends here. Here you got my attention.
hehe.. wow!
so many cold words in your attention..
how pathetic..
can you tell me please, where do you see that mongolia is isolated?
this people did have more friends as chinese republic around a world.
and you call it "isolated country"?
why do you think so?
do you see (like chinese superiors) all mongolians as "barbarians and inferior race"?
or do you think?: "wow! that land is pure and have a little population. Yea! we can tramp on his indepence and their people without to get a kick in the @$$!"
hmm?
-
QUOTE (danoc @ Apr 5 2006, 06:23 AM)
hehe.. wow!
so many cold words in your attention..
how pathetic..
so many cold words in your attention..
how pathetic..
I don't think anyone follows your logic so far. This topic has no relation to other countries than Soviet Union. That's the only country we should talk about. Main objective is to gather the information on the soldiers brutal behaviours, whether there'd be nothing or anything.
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 5 2006, 01:15 PM)
I don't think anyone follows your logic so far. This topic has no relation to other countries than Soviet Union. That's the only country we should talk about. Main objective is to gather the information on the soldiers brutal behaviours, whether there'd be nothing or anything.
see on the name of yor thread and then say me about where you see something about "russian soldiers".
you wants only new wood for your hate and revachsim fire.
what did a russian on you, that you do hate them so?
or do you hate generaly all not-asians?
why? are they not yellow enough for your rasistc views?
what are you interests?
you have get all answers here.
but that is not enough for you.
why?
if i do read your thread question then i think:
you need something for justifications to claim on russian federation territories and for new agitation like against japanese people in short time ago in china.
"replying to Russian Atrocities"
"russian atrocities"?
do you mean that russian and soviets have clear china of japanese fasists(fasists not all japanese!) for rape of chinese woman?
"replying"?
what do you mean with it? war? invasation? nuclear bombing? demonstrations?
what do want to do?
do you plan new "hate all russian" like against modern japan and their citizens?
for what?
do you want a hate and missunderstoods between china and russian federation like between japan and china in the last time?
where are you from?
and why do you hate russians and soviet people so?
-
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 5 2006, 03:33 AM)
Where are your sources? Chinese has no tradition of eating people.
They had , in very recent time second half of 20th century
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/Ch...oll/carroll.htm
Quote from http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...pic=10559&st=15
Rather than type out the many accounts of human sacrifice in ancient China, I will take the easy route. Please go to Google Book and search for "human sacrifice" China and check out the results (also check "human sacrificial" china). Good discussions are found in The Cambridge History of Ancient China: From the Origins of Civilization to 221 BC pages 192-194 (Robert Bagley), pages 266-283 (David Keightley) and pages 733-4 (Wu Hung). Also there is a section on it in Mark Edward Lewis' Sanctioned Violence in Early China, pages 27-8. (You can also "search within" these books for key words.) Keightley mentions both "companions in death (Renxun)" and "human offerings (Rensheng)."
It seems that the Qiang 羌 people were regularly used in sacrifices (according to oracle bone records):
"Shall we sacrifice one hundred Qiang people (a nomadic enemy tribe) and one hundred sets of sheep and pigs to [High King] Tang, Great Ancestors Jian and Ding, and Grandfather Yi?" (_Yicun_ 873)
"Shall we sacrifice two elders of the Qiang tribe to Grandfather Ding and Father Jia?" (_Jingjin_ 4034)
During the Spring & Autumns period, human sacrficial victims have been found in tombs from numerous states (e.g., Chu, Qi, Qin, Jin, Lu). The "Lord of the River" (He Bo) required virgin girls sacrificed I believe also.
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Human sacrifice custom were as old as china. It didn't stop until the Qing dynasty, when the KangXi (barbarian Manchu stopped civilized chinse custom) )emperor reigned.
at that time, someone suggested"好生恶死，人之常情，捐躯轻生，非盛世所宜有”。which means, it's people's natural desire for life and hate death, and those act should not exist in that rich society. i don't know if i have translated it properly.
human sacrifice had lasted long, for about six thousand years!
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Do Mongolians helped China?
WW2 Mongol and USSR in old times ?
WW2 Mongol and USSR in old times ?
QUOTE (lovelytruth @ Apr 6 2006, 02:08 PM)
Do Mongolians helped China?
jup.. but it was stoped in the time of culture revolution, evict and sinicization of mongolians from inner mongolia and nuclear tests near mongolian republic borders and after that.
now(90'en) they make good realtionchips with chinese businesmens. but how long they want ot do it in the future, i dont know.
China do many things to make mongolians angry in the last time.
QUOTE
WW2 Mongol and USSR in old times ?
what do you mean with it?
QUOTE (ANAND @ Apr 6 2006, 01:52 PM)
They had , in very recent time second half of 20th century
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/Ch...oll/carroll.htm
Quote from http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...pic=10559&st=15
Rather than type out the many accounts of human sacrifice in ancient China, I will take the easy route. Please go to Google Book and search for "human sacrifice" China and check out the results (also check "human sacrificial" china). Good discussions are found in The Cambridge History of Ancient China: From the Origins of Civilization to 221 BC pages 192-194 (Robert Bagley), pages 266-283 (David Keightley) and pages 733-4 (Wu Hung). Also there is a section on it in Mark Edward Lewis' Sanctioned Violence in Early China, pages 27-8. (You can also "search within" these books for key words.) Keightley mentions both "companions in death (Renxun)" and "human offerings (Rensheng)."
It seems that the Qiang 羌 people were regularly used in sacrifices (according to oracle bone records):
"Shall we sacrifice one hundred Qiang people (a nomadic enemy tribe) and one hundred sets of sheep and pigs to [High King] Tang, Great Ancestors Jian and Ding, and Grandfather Yi?" (_Yicun_ 873)
"Shall we sacrifice two elders of the Qiang tribe to Grandfather Ding and Father Jia?" (_Jingjin_ 4034)
During the Spring & Autumns period, human sacrficial victims have been found in tombs from numerous states (e.g., Chu, Qi, Qin, Jin, Lu). The "Lord of the River" (He Bo) required virgin girls sacrificed I believe also.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human sacrifice custom were as old as china. It didn't stop until the Qing dynasty, when the KangXi (barbarian Manchu stopped civilized chinse custom) )emperor reigned.
at that time, someone suggested"好生恶死，人之常情，捐躯轻生，非盛世所宜有”。which means, it's people's natural desire for life and hate death, and those act should not exist in that rich society. i don't know if i have translated it properly.
human sacrifice had lasted long, for about six thousand years!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/Ch...oll/carroll.htm
Quote from http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...pic=10559&st=15
Rather than type out the many accounts of human sacrifice in ancient China, I will take the easy route. Please go to Google Book and search for "human sacrifice" China and check out the results (also check "human sacrificial" china). Good discussions are found in The Cambridge History of Ancient China: From the Origins of Civilization to 221 BC pages 192-194 (Robert Bagley), pages 266-283 (David Keightley) and pages 733-4 (Wu Hung). Also there is a section on it in Mark Edward Lewis' Sanctioned Violence in Early China, pages 27-8. (You can also "search within" these books for key words.) Keightley mentions both "companions in death (Renxun)" and "human offerings (Rensheng)."
It seems that the Qiang 羌 people were regularly used in sacrifices (according to oracle bone records):
"Shall we sacrifice one hundred Qiang people (a nomadic enemy tribe) and one hundred sets of sheep and pigs to [High King] Tang, Great Ancestors Jian and Ding, and Grandfather Yi?" (_Yicun_ 873)
"Shall we sacrifice two elders of the Qiang tribe to Grandfather Ding and Father Jia?" (_Jingjin_ 4034)
During the Spring & Autumns period, human sacrficial victims have been found in tombs from numerous states (e.g., Chu, Qi, Qin, Jin, Lu). The "Lord of the River" (He Bo) required virgin girls sacrificed I believe also.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human sacrifice custom were as old as china. It didn't stop until the Qing dynasty, when the KangXi (barbarian Manchu stopped civilized chinse custom) )emperor reigned.
at that time, someone suggested"好生恶死，人之常情，捐躯轻生，非盛世所宜有”。which means, it's people's natural desire for life and hate death, and those act should not exist in that rich society. i don't know if i have translated it properly.
human sacrifice had lasted long, for about six thousand years!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dude, human sacrifices are not hannibalism.
QUOTE (danoc @ Apr 5 2006, 02:38 PM)
you need something for justifications to claim on russian federation territories and for new agitation like against japanese people in short time ago in china.
That's what rapists would justify themselves. Don't stoop down to the level of japanese imperial army.
QUOTE
"replying to Russian Atrocities"
"russian atrocities"?
do you mean that russian and soviets have clear china of japanese fasists(fasists not all japanese!) for rape of chinese woman?
"russian atrocities"?
do you mean that russian and soviets have clear china of japanese fasists(fasists not all japanese!) for rape of chinese woman?
You have extremely bad english. I will not reply to your comment.
Soviet atrocities committed against Japanese civilians in northeastern China are much better documented...
QUOTE (beronis @ Apr 4 2006, 10:10 PM)
I would wish that anybody in this forum gives some ideas on russian behaviours in northeast china when they occupied after defeating japanese army.
Obviously the author of this thread is very bitter with Russia and has issues of his own. It is very hard to overcome inferiority complex and get over the loss.
I think that before bashing Russia and bringing up ethnics China should sort out its own internal issues and deal with Japanese autrocities druing WW2, which were probably the most disturbing for it.
Russia came out as a winner at WW2 and winners are not being judged. China played a humble role of a sacrifice lamb, unable to defend itself. Now it comes with lame good old propaganda to imflame situation. It is not a first time when China makes up stories about history, scientific inventions, art, etc.
I suggest Russians and other reasonable people to ignore the whole topic, because it is pointless and intended for chinese friends to feel a little bit better about themselves.
I think that before bashing Russia and bringing up ethnics China should sort out its own internal issues and deal with Japanese autrocities druing WW2, which were probably the most disturbing for it.
Russia came out as a winner at WW2 and winners are not being judged. China played a humble role of a sacrifice lamb, unable to defend itself. Now it comes with lame good old propaganda to imflame situation. It is not a first time when China makes up stories about history, scientific inventions, art, etc.
I suggest Russians and other reasonable people to ignore the whole topic, because it is pointless and intended for chinese friends to feel a little bit better about themselves.
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 9 2006, 10:30 PM) [snapback]1736727[/snapback]
Obviously the author of this thread is very bitter with Russia and has issues of his own. It is very hard to overcome inferiority complex and get over the loss.
Inferiority complex? Has Russian ever been superior?
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 9 2006, 10:30 PM) [snapback]1736727[/snapback]
I think that before bashing Russia and bringing up ethnics China should sort out its own internal issues and deal with Japanese autrocities druing WW2, which were probably the most disturbing for it.
That's already dealt with.
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 9 2006, 10:30 PM) [snapback]1736727[/snapback]
Russia came out as a winner at WW2 and winners are not being judged. China played a humble role of a sacrifice lamb, unable to defend itself. Now it comes with lame good old propaganda to imflame situation. It is not a first time when China makes up stories about history, scientific inventions, art, etc.
Why can't a winner judge a winner? I thought china was also a winner. China could kick out japanese out of Machuria without Soviet helps. Japan was nuked twice, and already burned off by American bombs. It was only a matter of time American will take japan by forces, and chinese army will rise to annilliate Kuomintang army.
Are you saying Soviet Red Army was a sole winner? Do you think china was just sitting nothing to be pillaged by Japanese imperial army?
QUOTE(ANAND @ Apr 4 2006, 02:14 PM) [snapback]1719299[/snapback]
fellow Asian?
I am so touched. fu-k What a lame concept. Maybe it is useful for you to cheat other asians like SEA, certainly not for me.If not asian, would you like to be confused with Russian?
Overall, china's rise in russian RFE is a good thing for women in the region, because chinese civilization treats women with the utmost respect.
http://www.owl.ru/eng/womplus/2002/violence.htm
In Kazakhstan every 5-6 hours a woman is killed or raped. Grave injury is delivered every 3 hours. More than 60% of Kazakh women at least once underwent physical or sexual violence. About every third woman suffers violence in her family.
In 1993 14500 women were killed by their husbands and more than 65000 were gravely injured in Russian Federation.
QUOTE(lovelytruth @ Apr 6 2006, 02:08 PM) [snapback]1725429[/snapback]
Do Mongolians helped China?
WW2 Mongol and USSR in old times ?
China did not need a mongolian's help.
http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/mng-summary-eng
Violence against women
According to a study carried out by the National Centre Against Violence, domestic violence was the third most common cause of death and injury in Mongolia. The police lacked training on how to handle such cases. Impunity for sexual violence was widespread; 88 per cent of rape cases taken to court were dismissed.
MOD!
please close this pseudo-historican topic!
most of beronis statements are only flame propaganda angainst russian ethnic and russian nationality based on simple non-ethnical and non-logical agenda and statistics!
this guy wants only to make russian citizens into devils and bad guys.
QUOTE(danoc @ Apr 15 2006, 08:52 AM) [snapback]1753886[/snapback]
MOD!
please close this pseudo-historican topic!
most of beronis statements are only flame propaganda angainst russian ethnic and russian nationality based on simple non-ethnical and non-logical agenda and statistics!
All of the statistics are as credible as other atrocities. Collecting evidences are so hard and proving is even harder.
Was I flaming? Or am I even pretending to be historian?
I posted with the sources from mostly credible, unbiased sources, BBC, Guardian, Amnesty International.
That is enough to be said about my agendas.
QUOTE
this guy wants only to make russian citizens into devils and bad guys.
Russia produced Tolstoy, Gogol, Dostoevski, but I don't like their military cultures.
You definetely have an inferiority complex flared up. Maybe you'd better start new top #10010101 in this forum Are Chinese considered pale?
China was not amongst winners in WW2. If it could kick Japanese army out of its territory, it hadn't done so and there is nothing to discuss here.
Your pseudostatstics about rapes and murders are not convincing anyone except your coworkers in propaganda department or some of your brainwashed compatriots.
Actaully i'm having fun in this topic...
If anyone expresses desire to discuss nowadays concentration camps in China or forceful abortions, just let beronis know. IT (beronis) can prove that forceful abortion is the act of the utmost respect to woman.
China was not amongst winners in WW2. If it could kick Japanese army out of its territory, it hadn't done so and there is nothing to discuss here.
Your pseudostatstics about rapes and murders are not convincing anyone except your coworkers in propaganda department or some of your brainwashed compatriots.
Actaully i'm having fun in this topic...
If anyone expresses desire to discuss nowadays concentration camps in China or forceful abortions, just let beronis know. IT (beronis) can prove that forceful abortion is the act of the utmost respect to woman.
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 15 2006, 02:38 PM) [snapback]1754458[/snapback]
You definetely have an inferiority complex flared up. Maybe you'd better start new top #10010101 in this forum Are Chinese considered pale?
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 15 2006, 02:38 PM) [snapback]1754458[/snapback]
China was not amongst winners in WW2. If it could kick Japanese army out of its territory, it hadn't done so and there is nothing to discuss here.
Resorting to personal attacks and insults seems to be quiet common to some of you.
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 15 2006, 02:38 PM) [snapback]1754458[/snapback]
Your pseudostatstics about rapes and murders are not convincing anyone except your coworkers in propaganda department or some of your brainwashed compatriots.
So Amnesty International must use pseudostatics. BBC and Guardian does not filter the pseudo history.
I wonder what can be really a news and issues in this world then?
I do not see anything personal in what I said, unless you take it that way. Is it personal for you that China is not amongst winner in WW2? You have to live with the pain then.
Your interpretation of statstics is shallow.
It seems that the greatest women rights activist in this forum suddenly has nothing to say about treatment of women in Communist China. What does Amnesty International say about that?
P.S. don't forget the concentration camps and death sentences for common theives. You have a lot to fight for in your own garden.
Your interpretation of statstics is shallow.
It seems that the greatest women rights activist in this forum suddenly has nothing to say about treatment of women in Communist China. What does Amnesty International say about that?
P.S. don't forget the concentration camps and death sentences for common theives. You have a lot to fight for in your own garden.
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 15 2006, 04:00 PM) [snapback]1754694[/snapback]
I do not see anything personal in what I said, unless you take it that way. Is it personal for you that China is not amongst winner in WW2? You have to live with the pain then.
In your sentences, you did not indicate any rational reasons for china to be not a winner.
If Japanese army did not invade China, but Soviet Union. Soviets would not be
as succesful in defending from German invasions as it was in history.
Chinese army men were not raping and looting Japanese, which make the
chinese army, the moral winner of WWII, whereas Russian did not even
distinguish Polish women, and even do not care about the women they
are raping are 8 years old.
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 15 2006, 04:00 PM) [snapback]1754694[/snapback]
Your interpretation of statstics is shallow.
I did not interpret it. I merely posted what established media showed.
QUOTE(GokTurk @ Apr 15 2006, 04:00 PM) [snapback]1754694[/snapback]
It seems that the greatest women rights activist in this forum suddenly has nothing to say about treatment of women in Communist China. What does Amnesty International say about that?
P.S. don't forget the concentration camps and death sentences for common theives. You have a lot to fight for in your own garden.
Your logic is nothing different from Japanese nationalist, in that their tactics is going off-topic. Issues at hand are Soviet soldiers in WWII.
Concentration camps are legacy from soviets, but they no longer have places in china, as many chinese people supports CCP.
However, as I already cited, violences on women are serious in Mongolia and Russia. That will aggrevate in wartime situations.
P.S. It is absolutely scientific to predict the behaviours in war time by assessing the behaviours in the peaceful era. Rapes can be culture, or as human rightist says, it is the most prevalent culture in human history.
QUOTE
In your sentences, you did not indicate any rational reasons for china to be not a winner.
If Japanese army did not invade China, but Soviet Union.
If Japanese army did not invade China, but Soviet Union.
you use many "if" and "were" for your "historican thread".
QUOTE
Your logic is nothing different from Japanese nationalist, in that their tactics is going off-topic
you dont know what a $hit you have say here.
QUOTE(danoc @ Apr 16 2006, 06:44 AM) [snapback]1756574[/snapback]
you use many "if" and "were" for your "historican thread".
you dont know what a $hit you have say here.
History is a collection of facts.
However, understanding causality in
each underlyung event is the main
objective.
What do you think would happen if Japanese
did not use millions of infantry in china, are they going
to invade US by boats?
QUOTE(beronis @ Apr 16 2006, 06:54 AM) [snapback]1756582[/snapback]
History is a collection of facts.
However, understanding causality in
each underlyung event is the main
objective.
What do you think would happen if Japanese
did not use millions of infantry in china, are they going
to invade US by boats?
"if" again
QUOTE(danoc @ Apr 16 2006, 06:57 AM) [snapback]1756586[/snapback]
"if" again
It is a fact that
QUOTE
http://www.owl.ru/eng/womplus/2002/violence.htm
In Kazakhstan every 5-6 hours a woman is killed or raped. Grave injury is delivered every 3 hours. More than 60% of Kazakh women at least once underwent physical or sexual violence. About every third woman suffers violence in her family.
In 1993 14500 women were killed by their husbands and more than 65000 were gravely injured in Russian Federation.
It is a logical statement that Soviet soldiers are not different in these respects.
In fact, invasions of china by mongols cannot be different, as people do not change their habits so easily just like japanese, invading Korea twice.
Witnesses of people are also important when the atrocities are too grave that it cannot be condensed into the textbook.
QUOTE
The mothers had had to witness how their teen and twelve-year-old daughters were raped by some 20 men; the daughters in turn saw their mothers being raped, even their grandmothers.
Women who tried to resist were brutally tortured to death. There was no mercy. Many women were not local; they had come there from other towns, fleeing from the Russians.
QUOTE(beronis @ Apr 16 2006, 07:05 AM) [snapback]1756594[/snapback]
It is a fact that
It is a logical statement that Soviet soldiers are not different in these respects.
In fact, invasions of china by mongols cannot be different, as people do not change their habits so easily just like japanese, invading Korea twice.
all your "facts" are only flaim idiotism. go away.
what have criminal statistic from Latvia to do with your pseudo-historican" thread here?
QUOTE(danoc @ Apr 16 2006, 07:10 AM) [snapback]1756598[/snapback]
all your "facts" are only flaim idiotism. go away.
what have criminal statistic from Latvia to do with your pseudo-historican" thread here?
It shows the inclinations of Russian males imposed on their females.
QUOTE(beronis @ Apr 16 2006, 07:15 AM) [snapback]1756603[/snapback]
It shows the inclinations of Russian males imposed on their females.
what a stupid rasist!
QUOTE(danoc @ Apr 16 2006, 07:17 AM) [snapback]1756606[/snapback]
what a stupid rasist!
I am in no way to promote racism. It is an inhumane culture that many human rightist are fighting with.
If chinese boy is born in Russia, and influenced by Russian from early childhood, he may behave similarly.
It is quiet a sad thing.
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