if the usa and china get into a total war, who will be able to produce the most weapons, food, and war supplies in the same given amount of time?

I say china will have the quantity, but usa will have the quality...except for food

but will the chinese people be more dtermined and more disciplined?

dumb topic.
it wont happen.

china cannot be beaten, no country is dumb enough to try

jup!

hehe.. stupid topic.

who wants to make total war?

10-20 nuclear bombs and this land became grave..

he.. total war is not a option..

-

Just listen to the US talk radio news today, The Bush regime is planning to restart programs to produce at least 200 nuclear bombs each year. The cold war is on again?

The recent uranium deal that Australia & China signed an agreement, will make a huge difference. Because theoriticaly the deal allows China to start building atomic weapons, although the deal also states that they are not allowed to do that.

Hey Australia needs the $ badly, so they did what they did & will pretend with China & go along with China not useing any uraniums to build atomic bombs. Which in fact they will!!!Hahahahahahaha.

making an power plant and making a nuke is exactly the same thing. except making an nuke is 100000 times easier than making the powerplant.

u do the thinking

are you joking? china could easily be beaten if needed.

China has 6,000 nukes. China itself can flat out the world and makes every living thing on this planet disappear, unless you are from Mars of course. Then China still can destroy you. 2

But other countries could do the same thing to China.

china doesnt have anywhere near the capability that USA has for using nukes, they can have all the nukes they want, but that doesnt mean $hit.

China's nukes are for self defense.
Not for offence.

Anyway China cannot beat US in a war yet.

True but china can beat the US on Chinese soil. Bush isnt stupid enough to use nukes unless he wants a DF-5 on Washington.

no other nation in history have successfully conquered china.
all that happeend was china was ruled by different people that ended up merging into the chinese culture.

hahaha so funny....i'd be happy if the US occupies china...and then the US will merge into china..melt into China and then the world will just be a big china hahaha

Vietnam and the streets of Baghdad are situations where the US military is weakest. Any conflict with China nowadays would be fought on on the high seas, where the US military is the strongest. This is where weapons like ABs, Ticos, F-22s, F-15/16s, B-2s and LA/Seawolf/Virginia SSNs will completely dominate the battlespace. A US war with China will not be another Vietnam, it will be a short-term high-intensity conflict for which China has been preparing but which it will ultimately lose when push comes to shove. And I doubt the US is stupid enough to send ground forces into the Chinese mainland.

But I have no problems with the current economic focus of China's rise, because someday it will translate into much more military power than a premature and lopsided funneling of money into the military. (ie North Korea)

China's military is modernizing at a breakneck pace already, and you can damn well bet it's the most rapid military modernization in the history of this planet. All of China's major shipyards are producing modern warships as fast as can be done, and China is supplementing domestic construction with the largest foreign weapons purchases of all nations for the last several years running. Not to mention the continued production of third (FC-1 Thunder) , fourth (J-10) , and even fifth generation fighters (J-XX).

China's military modernization is still so young, and her current military power is less than a tenth of her true potential. I don't like to set timetables, but China's military will dominate as it once had.

I have no doubt of this rise, CDF, let us hope that the rise of the Red Dragon be a peaceful one.

For the Sake of Asia and the World.

!

sorry, i am dont listen USA-Radio.

cold war?

no i dont think so.

but USA do change his military and tactical weapons into modern standarts and tactics.

(thanks modern Radar and new logistics can anyone find old racet starts and old racets (they are very big and very slow and noone knows, where exsactly do they expolde) )

we have now much more "nuclear" countries in the world.

"old nuclear" countries like Europe, Russian Federation, USA and China do need new upgrades and strategical tactics for the future.

(btw. China want upgrade her nuclear arsenal in the next time, like France and England)




ohyea! haha!

China do needs new powerplants more as nukes!

(you know, for make more money and for give this money on austrlians and other uranium exporters.)



Jup.
but China have enough ressources, political system and big population for long, hard "partisan war".

another side of the war is, that many "autonomic" republics in china became after this war very independend and stronger as China, and that is not really what USA and another World do want. or?

(noone want really 8 countries instead only one. that is not good for exports and not good for politcal stability in East-Asia)



hehe..

noone nuke is for defense. only peaceful nuke is for defense.

if the do started they are ever and forever only offence wepaon.


In the future perhaps.

but, i dont think that China is stupid enough to make a war against NATO and other military Organisations.

Bush being horny about China

If its a new cold war then its of a different kind than the last one. During the cold war the super powers had almost no financial or economic dealings with each other. To have that form of cold war with China is nearly impossible today. It would be like a war with your bank. The US has a huge debt with china, our economy is very dependant upon China. Weapons upgrades are a norm. The fact that GWB is going to make more is not surprising. With new technology comes new weapons more specialized. Ialways regretted that Carter scrapped the Neutron bomb. Very clean, effects last a very short time, and residuals very managable. Maybe GWB will build some of those. The neutron bomb was a tactical nuke. It only killed with very little destruction. Some called it a city killer. No nuke is a good thing. But for the planets sake we need clean bombs .

neutron bomb kill all life. not only humans. it kill worms, cats, dogs, bactries. anything that have water in his body. after expolsion you get nuclear follout with clinical sterilisation.

this weapon have radiation and more as you think, it be caled secundary radioactivity.

after test a Carter have found out how barbaric this weapon was.

therefore i think it was rigth to stop this weapon.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/intro/neutron-bomb.htm

WarEngineer..... i can tell you are still a very young man....what are you??? about 18?? 20??? anyways....first of all China HAS been defeated....just recently by Japan...until the world demanded that they leave....we won't go into the other accounts.... Secondly....there is NO WAY that America cannot defeat China in an all out war....do you know how much AMerica spends on thier millitary a year? in 2004 they spent 437 BILLION! while China spent 29 Billion.... they have a much larger army...that is way more technologically advanced....thier nuclear capabilities are far superior than that of the WHOLE world combined....i suggest you should look it up instead of solely relying on what i just said..... i understand nationalism and feeling of jingoism are fine....but you need to get your facts straight.

a war between chinese and the americans is what the iranians want since iran can't defend themselves and need to drag us into every conflict they have.

Amazing, an Ameican who actually wants China to annihilate the world. Sinophile. 2

ok, you are exactly right. i'm not arguing your facts.

i'm looking at it in a strategic way.

japan was just a small part of the history. you are right, they did defeat the chinese army. but in no way did they occupy and conquer china completely. They were still fighting the chinese when the world turned against japan.
you see, in the ancient times, lots of invaders fought china and even conquered china, but what ended up happening is that the conqueres lost their own culture and melted into china and became chinese instead.

it's true for all the dynasties.

but the point is with such a huge army, america still dont' dare to touch the chinese. Also, with such a huge army and they could still let 911 happen which just proves a huge army with advanced technology doesn't mean much. All countries in the world have armies that are less powerful than U.S. but no 911 happen to others but only U.S.

U.S. don't dare to touch china since U.S. need China and of course China just can't beat U.S. with their current technology but then the point is U.S. just won't do anything directly to confront China. Even if they do, U.S. will probably win eventually but with the number of people in China and such a huge land , china is not easy to confront and remember how the U.S. fight in Iraq.

Weapon would be the least problem. The real defeat would actually who would want to see their people suffer most?

Perhaps you should update your knowledge about China first. Your knowledge about China is very outdated. Modern China is not the old weak China that started around 1700 due to corruption. After WWII, China actually defeated USA in both Korea and Vietnam war with inferior/primated weapons. Right now after 20 years of advancing in weaponry, China does have the capability to destroy the whole world, let alone USA. China have advance missiles and lasers capable of destroying US carriers, jetfighters, satellites, submarines, etc... Right now China is research on anti-matter weapons. You know recently, Iran tested the torpodo that traveled very fast and missiles that avoided the detection of radars. Iran actually acquired them from China. See the link.

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory...o+sale&id=86649

Japan never really defeated the KMT nor the Red Army. They took the capital of course, but the armies were always there.

Also, there's a complete difference in fighting a defensive and offensive war. The US spends buttloads on the military, true, but come on, sending troops and providing for them all the way in Asia? Look at how much trouble China has getting to Taiwan, and that's not even that far. Now imagine the Pacific Ocean in the way.

And China has more than enough capability to nuke the US flat. I'm sure the US can do the same to us as well.

if china do atck USA then we have a "NATO against China" war.
China have not enough ressources for the next World war.

eys, China have 1,3 Billion People, but do you know exsactly who of this people can be soldier?

perhaps 60-90 millions.

Do you know how many people in a Europe, Russian Federation, USA, Canada, Mexico and Latain America can be soldiers?
(dont forgot many alies from East Asia and Britans from Australia, New-Zealand and South-Africa.)

i dont know.. perhaps 100 or 600 Millions.

Chinese Army is not maked for long and invasation war. Chinese Army cann't conquer all World.
It is only defense Army not like USA Army and Marines or Britanian and EU-defense-forces.

therefore it is very kiddish to talk about a war between China and USA or their allies.

btw. China need a World like World needs China.

it is much better as total war without a winner.

btw. noone needs 6000 nuces. it is only 200-300 nuces enough to make nuclear winter.

^i got a question for you...where is newseland and what are nuces?

nice question.

you must know it, or?

^^give danoc a break. you cant expect everyone to speak proper english.

other than that. if china really wants to control the world. wouldnt the rest of the world attack china?

WarEngineer, you serve in any countires military or study any military or political subjects?

In case there will be really total war between USA and China. It will be WWIII.

1. How it would start?
- Independance of Taiwan, If China out of patience
- North Korea Nuclear and Missile threat might be reason
- Internal conflict of PRC itself might cause war

What else ?


2. World War 3 started, what countries will be China's allies, and what countries are enemies?

[quote name='millersdude' date='Apr 7 2006, 02:26 PM' post='1729065']
Perhaps you should update your knowledge about China first. Your knowledge about China is very outdated. Modern China is not the old weak China that started around 1700 due to corruption. After WWII, China actually defeated USA in both Korea and Vietnam war with inferior/primated weapons. Right now after 20 years of advancing in weaponry, China does have the capability to destroy the whole world, let alone USA. China have advance missiles and lasers capable of destroying US carriers, jetfighters, satellites, submarines, etc... Right now China is research on anti-matter weapons. You know recently, Iran tested the torpodo that traveled very fast and missiles that avoided the detection of radars. Iran actually acquired them from China. See the link.


first of all....i have no idea how you thought that my perceptions of China were outdated by my 1/2 paragraph reply.... the main point of my post is primarily based on the millitary budget of the 2 nations.... how that's outdated i don't know....i think that you assume that just because i HIGHLY doubt that CHina can beat America MILLITARILY.... you think that my perception of CHina is outdated.... i doubt that most historians/millitary analysts and socialists would disagree with me on that topic. China has YET to match the United States power in this world.....but all this talk about a China-US war is besides the point.... it's HIGHLY unlikely to happen in our lifetimes.... both countries recognize that it will cause massive death in both countires and in the world.... the military superiority of either country.... is not even debatable....you can talk about Iran....or any SPECIFIC weapon...that's really beside the point.... because it will be the rarity amongst analysts to think that China can match the US's millitary power/technology.
i assume that you've graduated college....just as an experiment...just for curiosity sake.... why don't you go back to your school and ask some of the professors there about the millitary power/capabilities of either country.... i doubt they'll think that China can match the power of the US.
either way...... i hope that China continues it's growth in areas of geopolitics and economics.

Did you guys even read my earlier post?

if there's really a war btw the two powerhouses, i don't think they'll be the only players.

i can prove all your information wrong see link

secondary source 2nd source

according to a fortune cookie i ate this morning. the US is also devloping its anti-ballistic missle capabilities. at the moment the US has in its possession a ship classified as USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-J). if you dont know anything about this ship. its predicted arsenal is an estimated 200-700 phenoix T-3 II class photon torepedos, every torpedo is armed with 3 photon warheads yeilding approx. 700mega tons each, totalling 2,100 mega tons. compare that to the two atomic bombs that were dropped on hiroshipma and nagasaki, JP that totalled 35,000 tons. it would be 20,000X stronger, holy shiet! we are talking about total destruction of the world. but thats not all. the NCC-1701-J also has in its aresenal lasers ranging from 300,000 watts to an estamated 300 million gigawatts, that is enough power to power all the major cities of earth for an entire year. AMAZING!! as for sheilding, the crew is protected by Connex-lockheed's new dual defensive system which consist of a hull created from quatranium matrixiline, the most powerful, most strongest substance known in existance. its has the enough integrety to with stand any nuclear warhead that totals 500 megatons in yield. the second and primary sheild withstands up to a maximum of 64000 gigawatts of matter/energy. enough to create a livable atmosphere at 100 miles from the sun! ternary defensive systems deal with anti-anti-matter and anti-anti-proton drivers developed by the independent human-vulcan research institution called "3-ElooG Technologies". these new drivers are integrated into NCC-1701-J Athens VII type-9 3/stage warp reactors and the ships internal artificial gravity drives rendering anti-matter weapons usless.

note: this is all BS, but star trek enterprise is a cool seires.

This post warrents a warning for utter lack of substance.

same can be said for you. take a look at your own link. it leads to nowhere.

My link?

Now you're just babbling nonesense.

this "iranian torped" is a product of russian military industry and was maked for deffense of submarines against other submarines in a very short distance(was developt in a last time of cold war). this torpedo is fast but noone can control it, and his "working radius" is very small.

against modern navy-ships in a modern war is this torpedo useless.

(btw. this torpedo was a real cause because russian submarine "kursk" was explode under water)




this iranian monster was stolen from german and russian industry.

soviets have develop it for Caspian Sea.

and germans for post-transport in the north-sea.(was discarded. is to dangerous, if weater became bad)
btw. this thing is very dangerous if you want shot from it with big gun. ( a mashine became like crasy horse, and go swin under water)

iranians are pathetic fu-k. They can't defend themselves but still brag day and nights about how good their country is. Those fu-k always drag us the chinese or russians into the conflicts they have.

Yup. you have rigth.

you forgot israel and islamistic people in the middle asia.

but i see it as "political defense" in a propaganda war against other world.
(totalitarian goverment needs political profit, or they go down)

from other view, iran can only win in this conflict.

if they loose a war iranians get rapide modernisation and industrial revolution.

if they get nuclear weapons, iranian "mullah-goverment" became stronger and iran get more money, politican influence and natural ressourses for "conservative" modernisation.

they can only loose, if all world do stop import of iranian oil. (i dont think that all industrial countries want make economical suicide)

dude, not so surprising. what so good about it? we have many weapons in the world that can avoid detection by a certian radar.

first of all this isnt a internationally recongized controlled tested project

we dont know what radar they used?
we dont know what the enviroment was? gale?hurricane?
we dont know the depth of the test?
we dont know anything but it can travel 200mph, so what? many things in can travel 200mph, just because it travles underwater doesnt give it a stealth bonus. Harpoons travel at 500mph and seasparrows at 2,500mph. other stuff? sealance, everything is classified other than it can carry nuclearwareheads and it travels at subsonic speeds(150-300mph) and its short to medium range.

information i posted is from the web. i wouldnt rely to much off this infomation. all i know is that you cant rely to much on the internet. military infomation is to often exaggerated.

did you hear how serbians have shot a stealth jet in a balcan war?

it was very simple, they have used a multinetwork with 3 radar stations.
with this technic you can see most stealth jets in the heaven.

stealth bonus is only one little thing, why USA have better airforces.
another fact is; NATO have much better racets (satelite technics and, and.) with a long distance radius.
therefore, a USA Jet can shot all Radar stations without that they have see him.

China never lost, parts of it was occupied but Chiang Kai-shiek fled to Chongqing and the land west of Wuhan was unoccupied

Total war means total MADness (Mutual Assured Destruction). That would be the end of the world. Let's hope it will never happen, or at least only in movies or our imagination.

"happy slapping" for happy doomsday.

While I agree it's stupid to mention a war between China and US. You are pulling figures out of your @$$.

This is from the CIA World Factbook:

China
Military China Top of Page
Military branches:
People's Liberation Army (PLA): Ground Forces, Navy (includes marines and naval aviation), Air Force (includes Airborne Forces), and II Artillery Corps (strategic missile force); People's Armed Police (PAP); Reserve and Militia Forces (2006)
Military service age and obligation:
18-22 years of age for compulsory military service, with 24-month service obligation; no minimum age for voluntary service (all officers are volunteers); 17 years of age for women who meet requirements for specific military jobs (2004)
Manpower available for military service:
males age 18-49: 342,956,265 (2005 est.)
Manpower fit for military service:
males age 18-49: 281,240,272 (2005 est.)
Manpower reaching military service age annually:
males: 13,186,433 (2005 est.)
Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$81.48 billion (2005 est.)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
4.3% (2005 est.)


USA
Military United States Top of Page
Military branches:
Army, Navy and Marine Corps, Air Force, and Coast Guard; note - Coast Guard administered in peacetime by the Department of Homeland Security, but in wartime reports to the Department of the Navy
Military service age and obligation:
18 years of age (2004)
Manpower available for military service:
males age 18-49: 67,742,879
females age 18-49: 67,070,144 (2005 est.)
Manpower fit for military service:
males age 18-49: 54,609,050
females age 18-49: 54,696,706 (2005 est.)
Manpower reaching military service age annually:
males: 2,143,873
females: 2,036,201 (2005 est.)
Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$518.1 billion (FY04 est.) (2005 est.)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
4.06% (FY03 est.) (2005 est.)


If you're talking about Active services: China has the largest active standing army. 2.3 million? Anyone going for an invasion of China these days are just stupid. While I also agree that invading USA is stupid too.

China can indeed be beaten, but most likely won't be beaten by any country other than the us.

but even the usa can't beat china easily...think about it, they got to bring all the ships and planes across half the globe and china can just counter with ground based missles. You have to like china's chances at fighting a defensive war.....

when i said total war, i meant without using nukes or else it wouldn't be much of a war

i just said who can make more weapons in a total war situation, not the actual war