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caramel
QUOTE
Racism Alive and Well in Malaysia

More news stories on Racial Identity
Baradan Kuppusamy, Asia Times (Hong Kong), March 24, 2006

KUALA LUMPUR—Malaysia’s first serious survey of race relations in more than 50 years indicates that behind the government-promoted facade of unity and peace, racism runs deep in one of Asia’s most multi-ethnic melting pots.

The telephone survey of about 1,200 Malaysians also found that the majority of the various races find comfort and security in their respective ethnicity and not, as the official travel and tourism brochures suggest, in a common “Malaysian” identity.

The survey, conducted by the independent Merdeka Center for Opinion Research, also found that negative racial stereotyping was deeply entrenched. For example, minority Chinese and Indians see the majority Malays, who make up 60% of Malaysia’s 25 million population, as lazy.

Chinese and Indians, who began migrating to Malaysia in the early 19th century, make up 26% and 8% of the population, respectively.

The survey’s results cast a harsh light on the government’s New Economic Policy (NEP), which was originally designed to promote social harmony and economic equality. Since 1970, the government has maintained a policy of positive discrimination that favors ethnic Malays over other races—including preferential treatment in employment, education, scholarships, business, access to cheaper housing and assisted savings.

In particular, these measures were aimed at reducing the yawning gap with the ethnic-Chinese community, which still dominates business in Malaysia, as it does throughout most of Southeast Asia.

Malaysia’s ethnic-Chinese community was on the receiving end of the murderous 1969 race riots that prompted former prime minister Mahathir Mohamad to pass the NEP. In a bid to maintain social order, Mahathir often blacked out foreign news coverage when racial tensions erupted in nearby Indonesia, where the Chinese are also a minority population.

Originally designed to last for 20 years, the NEP has continued without check, sparking envy and resentment between Malays and non-Malays. Private companies must hand over 30% of equity to ethnic Malays and a portion of housing and commercial property must be sold to them.

“The findings are not at all surprising,” social scientist Chandra Muzaffar said of the survey. “This is partly because ethnic boundaries are real in our society and almost every sphere of public life is linked to ethnicity in one way or another.”

In a nation that claims to be a “melting pot”, only 11% of the respondents said they had eaten often with friends from other races in the previous three months, and 34% said they had never had a meal with people of other races.

About 42% of the population do not consider themselves Malaysian first, and 46% said ethnicity was important in voting, 55% blamed politicians for racial problems and 70% would help their own ethnic group first. According to the survey, 58% of Malays, 63% of Chinese and 43% of Indians polled agreed with the survey item that “in general, most Malays are lazy”.

Meanwhile, 71% of Malays, 60% of Chinese and 47% of Indians agreed with the generalization that “in general, most Chinese are greedy”. About 64% of Malays, 58% of Chinese and 20% of Indians agreed that “in general, most Indians cannot be trusted”.

The survey, commissioned by the semi-official New Straits Times newspaper and supported by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, is the first honest look at Malaysian society in half a century, and the findings have left many Malaysians gasping in disbelief at how firmly racism and racial stereotyping have become entrenched and accepted as a way of life.

The Merdeka Center said the survey “gives an honest picture of the country’s situation and interracial perception” and warns that extremists can take advantage of interracial fears and suspicions in the absence of a meaningful interaction.

The ruling National Front government of Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi works hard to portray the country as an example of multiculturalism where Muslims, Hindus and Christians live together in peace.

But experts have been voicing concern that, increasingly, the communities are drifting apart and that polarization of the races and a lack of social unity were on the rise. They squarely blame the politicians and the country’s race-based politics for the sharp rise in racism.

The findings have prompted civil-society groups to demand a new ban on all race-based political parties.

“Let us outlaw all Malaysian political parties that restrict membership on grounds of race, religion or sex,” said lawyer A Sivanesan, who is senior leader of the opposition Democratic Action Party, one of the four registered multi-racial parties in the country. “It should be written in the constitution that only multi-racial bodies be permitted.”

Others say the few multi-racial political parties are weak and unable to grow because of the strong domination of race-based parties over the political system.

“What the survey clearly shows is that the various races live peacefully but separately,” Sivanesan said. “Half a century after independence we are further away from knowing each other than when we started—separate schools, separate friends, separate lives.”

Curiously, the survey showed that many Malaysians had vague ideas not only of one another’s cultures and traditions but also of their own. Hari Raya Puasa was wrongly perceived as the Malay New Year by 32% of Malays, 84% of Chinese and 45% of Indians—the festival actually marks the culmination of Ramadan, the holy month of fasting. Similarly, the Chinese New Year was thought to be a religious festival by 57% of Malays, 53% of Indians and a whopping 62% of Chinese respondents.

Despite the lack of unity, the country has enjoyed long periods of peace since the 1969 race riots. And unlike in some neighboring countries, notably Singapore, where uniformity is enforced, Malaysia’s minorities are not restricted and are free to practice their own cultures and religions and enjoy a vernacular education.

Former deputy prime minister Anwar Ibrahim, who was sacked and jailed in 1998, has caused a stir by proposing to reform the political landscape, which he says is straining national harmony.

“We need to appeal to the Malays, Chinese and the Indians and the rest that we need to go beyond race-based politics. If you continue to harp and support this racial equation, you will never be able to overcome racial divisions,” he told supporters at a recent rally.

The government is aware of the deep divide and has taken measures to close the gap. One experiment in racial integration is the “Vision Schools” initiative in which students share sports fields, assembly halls and canteens, but attend classes conducted in their own languages. But the initiative is embroiled in controversy, mainly because of the fear among Chinese and Indians that the vernacular education system would suffer and erode their ethnic identities.

A popular initiative, the national-service program, started in 2004, puts youths of all races under a single roof. Students are chosen at random and taken to camps for about three months in the hope that they will learn teamwork and absorb one another’s cultures. But the experts say racism is too deeply entrenched in official policies and the socio-political system for such “halfhearted” measures to make impact.

“The survey’s findings might be a bitter pill to swallow, but it tells us who we really are behind the facade we show the world,” said Sivanesan.


http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/..._alive_an_1.php

Some Chinese and Indians are separated during the primary years to the fact that there are Chinese and Indian primary schools. Later on in secondary school, the Malays are separated when they go to the Malay College.

How are we going to understand one another if this keeps going on?
johnleemk
Exactly, caramel. The problem is that many people cannot see this. Too many discussions of Malaysian government since the 1960s have glossed over the problem of a Malaysian identity by either oversimplifying the issue in a cheesy manner (think of Mahathir's Bangsa Malaysia that went nowhere) or harping on inconsequential issues. The NEP and even the inexcusable handouts that are all too often the focus of critics are nothing compared to other forms of blatant discrimination that goes on everyday.

As long as our leaders are able to get away with calling almost half our citizens kaum pendatang (aliens), there can be no Bangsa Malaysia. Likewise with the practice of educational segregation. Chinese and Tamil educationists justify this by arguing that they want to preserve their own indigenous culture -- which is fine; just don't do it on public money. Likewise, the junior science colleges run by MARA are justified with the excuse of increasing the Bumiputra share of the economy -- although nobody has explained why the Bumiputras need to be segregated from other Malaysians to learn. (To be fair, the non-Bumis now have a measly 10% quota for admission to the junior colleges.) Public funds must be used for Malaysian education and preserving a Malaysian identity, not for racialist and sectarian purposes. You want to do that, fine -- but do it on your own money. There are enough Bumi and Chinese and Indian (Ananda Krishnan anyone?) to fund segregated schools out of their own pockets.

A lot of people seem to enjoy telling the government to clean its own house first and get rid of ketuanan Melayu and the NEP. To me, this is the height of hypocrisy -- especially when you consider that most of these people would still insist on public funding for vernacular schools after the abolition of policies such as the NEP.

These same people are the kind who would probably only badmouth the Malays if they heard on the news of Malay soldiers dieing for Malaysia. While they're being terribly myopic, it's hard not to see their point. After all, even if I had a hundred lives to give for Malaysia, I and my descendants would forever be kaum pendatang -- aliens, inferior to the "indigenous" people -- despite making the ultimate sacrifice for a country that still considers me a foreigner, liable to betray it at any moment.

(I also made a related post here.)
tengkuafif
I agree with your points here, johnleemk. I think the main problem in having a true bangsa Malaysia is because with keep segregating our children since they are young. How possible for them to see themselves as a Malaysian when they know they are different from other children who live in the same land. I think Singapore has succesfully intergrate their children via their education system. There should be only one education system in Malaysia, and that single education system is of course the national school system which is conducted in Malay.
The second point which hinders the creation of the bangsa Malaysia is the perceptive of the non-Malays towards the Malays. The big question here,why can't they just assimilate or a least being appreciative on what has been given to them? Truthfully, the Malays aren't racist people. Don't you realise how can a Chinese shop survive in a predominantly Malay kampung? Just look at the Malay heartland states where the Chinese could successfully build their business there whilst their Malay counterparts keep buying stuffs from them. I don't know this could work the other way round. We won't ask more. If you can speak good Malay, you are already part of them. That's one thing for sure. But this is pretty logical isn't it? If you are in a native land, you of course want to acquire the conversational skills to that of the native people. If you have a terrible accent, how can you be part of them?
A supporting question to the second point above is,why wouldn't the non-Malays speak the national language at home?
And the answer is pretty obvious isn't it?
forrestcat
Non-Malays also like to find excuses not to enter Civil services and MARA colleges and institutions giving excuses that Malays trying to convert them eventhough non-Malays can have better chance to enter civil services and MARA colleges now. I mean I have been to a Matriculation college and have some Chinese in my tuorial classes, and many of them from Chinese secondary schools, and I find very amusing that they always wanna go home every weekend and when they have to share rooms with Malays and Indians, they want to switch rooms. I also have some Chinese classmates that receive offer places at Matriculation but they reject coz they cannot live in hostel environment. When i ask an MRSM friend, he said that in his MRSM, there are only 1 non-Malay in is batch. so some non-Malays are also letting golden opportunities slip through their fingers coz of their ignorance too. My mom who is a marketing officer at UniKL (a MARA university), had met a Chinese lady whose son got an offer to UniKL, she wanna cancel her son admission, afraid that her son cannot cope at UniKL and complain that UniKL this la that la (that lady would regtret saying that if she visit UniKL campuses, my mom said)....i wonder why...... sure.gif . ....my mom says the 10% for non-Malays students was never filled at UniKL.
caramel
tengkuafif, I think it is true that education plays a big role. Like for example, my brother is from a Chinese primary school and a Chinese dominated secondary school. He has only a handful of Malay and Indian friends as compared to me, someone with a SRK primary school and an equally distributed race secondary school (until Form 3 where most of the Malay students will go to the Malay College). (I think my parents are doing some sort of experiment.)

But I have a question. And I hope to get a truthful answer. During my secondary school years, there was a rumour that the Uztah and Uztazah in my school did not encourage the Malays in my school to interact with the Chinese and Indians. I asked a Malay friend of mine and it was true. Why would such a religious teacher teach their students such things? Is it because we eat pork and some of us gamble?

Furthermore, in my school, if you are a Chinese, it is much harder to enter the top classes. Don't you think that encourages the fighting spirit of the Chinese; and the other race will think that they do not need to work as hard. And why at such young age; racism policies have been implemented.

And forrestcat, if someone is not being exposed to Malays / Indians at a young age, they will not want to stay in the hostel sharing a room with them or they will not want to be in a Malay dominated working place. Hence, the Chinese and Tamil primary school and the Malay college should be slowly abolished.

Ok, the reason why I do not speak the national language at home is not because I do not love the country. My mother loves the English language (due to the complexity). However, if you can observe, my English language is not that strong as well. And my father, he wants to preserve the Chinese culture. Hence, we speak a little Chinese as well.
forrestcat
QUOTE (caramel @ Apr 9 2006, 10:29 AM) *
tengkuafif, I think it is true that education plays a big role. Like for example, my brother is from a Chinese primary school and a Chinese dominated secondary school. He has only a handful of Malay and Indian friends as compared to me, someone with a SRK primary school and an equally distributed race secondary school (until Form 3 where most of the Malay students will go to the Malay College). (I think my parents are doing some sort of experiment.)

But I have a question. And I hope to get a truthful answer. During my secondary school years, there was a rumour that the Uztah and Uztazah in my school did not encourage the Malays in my school to interact with the Chinese and Indians. I asked a Malay friend of mine and it was true. Why would such a religious teacher teach their students such things? Is it because we eat pork and some of us gamble?

Furthermore, in my school, if you are a Chinese, it is much harder to enter the top classes. Don't you think that encourages the fighting spirit of the Chinese; and the other race will think that they do not need to work as hard. And why at such young age; racism policies have been implemented.

And forrestcat, if someone is not being exposed to Malays / Indians at a young age, they will not want to stay in the hostel sharing a room with them or they will not want to be in a Malay dominated working place. Hence, the Chinese and Tamil primary school and the Malay college should be slowly abolished.

Ok, the reason why I do not speak the national language at home is not because I do not love the country. My mother loves the English language (due to the complexity). However, if you can observe, my English language is not that strong as well. And my father, he wants to preserve the Chinese culture. Hence, we speak a little Chinese as well.


See, that's the problem, some non-malays are so hyped-out about some conspiracy by ustazahs and ustazs who give orders to convert the non-malays just as much as Malays being obsessed with jewish conspiracy to rule the world which is an object of ruse among non-malays. So much that non-malay fear that when they study overseas, they are so afraid to register with MSD coz they think UMNO gahmen spying on them through MSD, well, they'll regret for not registering with MSD when they lost their passport. I guess Islamicphobia is also making this matter worst.

About the ustaz and ustazahs thing, dun believe what ppl tell u, they are just teachers just like other teachers only they are a bit strict and very 'garang'.
caramel
Probably that was just one of the few cases. It does not represent the whole ustahs and ustazahs in M'sia.

I think many people have Islamicphobia because they do not understand the religion well. Also, many people, especially Chinese are afraid that they will not be able to eat pork, keep a dog as a pet or gamble and drink if M'sia do become an Islamic state.

BTW, what is MSD?

I remember posting an article once where students abroad are not allowed to promote opposition parties (during the release of Anwar, I believe) otherwise, their scholarship will be revoked or things like that.
forrestcat
QUOTE (caramel @ Apr 9 2006, 01:04 PM) *
Probably that was just one of the few cases. It does not represent the whole ustahs and ustazahs in M'sia.

I think many people have Islamicphobia because they do not understand the religion well. Also, many people, especially Chinese are afraid that they will not be able to eat pork, keep a dog as a pet or gamble and drink if M'sia do become an Islamic state.

BTW, what is MSD?

I remember posting an article once where students abroad are not allowed to promote opposition parties (during the release of Anwar, I believe) otherwise, their scholarship will be revoked or things like that.


Malaysia Student Dept. -MSD

All M'sian students overseas are strongly advised to register here, just give the name and passport no. and ur address that's all coz if M'sian students lost their passport those passports, if discovered will handed over to MSD, and if u dun register, MSD cannot return passport to u and u can get in trouble. You know, some bitter ex-Malaysians just love to plant stupid ideas into Malaysian students abroad especially among Chinese students like MSD is spying on them etc.. sure.gif ... if u talk about the opposition, who's gonna report u, u just give address and passport no. to MSD, that's all, no one's gonna report every word u say, my friends and Ihere talk badly about the government often, no one is stopping us... icon_twisted.gif

Even if non-Malays do study Islam at Uni level, they do not appreciate it , many of my non-Muslim friends at SAM called those sessions 'brainwashing' session , they just try to get DISTINCTION, that's all, no need to know what Jihad means and that Muslims don't pray at the Ka'abah at Mecca embarassedlaugh.gif . Islam is taught in Malaysia bcoz it's the OFFICIAL RELIGION, not because gahmen trying to convert all non-Muslims, so this is within the frame of our constitution, so deal with it. Many Ustazah and Ustazs in government schools are educated in government recognized institutions , are to a large extent open minded, so far I have not heard any of our ustazahs preaching hate or shouted 'death to Israel' though they support the Palestinian struggle, you'll be surprised that discussion occurs in many Pendidikan Islam classes,something that 'Pendidikan Moral' classes dun experience embarassedlaugh.gif and at secondary schools, i do look forward to these religious classes although I am not that religious.

I believe non-Malays and Malays should approach each other to learn more about each other. We should not be afraid to ask, no need to wait for gahmen to build 'Sekolah Wawasan' then ask questions later. If u dun wanna talk face to face about some sensitive issues, there is AF biggthumpup.gif and we can chat with about them on YM or MSN Messenger.
caramel
I hated Pendidikan Moral so much. Seriously we learnt a bunch of crap. There is never one way to do something. And the PM subject teaches us to think one way.

I did not register with the MSD I think. embarassedlaugh.gif

I did not know that there was such a thing.
forrestcat
QUOTE (caramel @ Apr 9 2006, 01:56 PM) *
I hated Pendidikan Moral so much. Seriously we learnt a bunch of crap. There is never one way to do something. And the PM subject teaches us to think one way.

I did not register with the MSD I think. embarassedlaugh.gif

I did not know that there was such a thing.


just Google MSD Australia......and register....I believe b4 u depart Malaysia, someone would have told u about MSD, coz some private students who travel with us got some brochures about MSD from IDP .... MSD Australia people are friendly and some of them are even PR resident in OZ..if u have problem with authorities , they'll help u.... like a senior of mine had serious legal problem when he bought a car...MSD helped him through..... so that's what a gahmen spy agency does....
embarassedlaugh.gif2 embarassedlaugh.gif2
caramel
I think I should look for them. I am having problems with the real estate and bank. icon_confused.gif
swingdoctor
Wow a very interesting topic.
I personally belief racism and "hatred"is learnt and therefore the only way to get rid of it and embrace racial tolerance is through our children.
I think all children should attend the same school and there should not be any "ethnic" schools, if religion is to be taught, it should be done outside of a "normal" school.
I disaree with forrestcat that Islam should be taught at all schools because it is the official religion of Malaysia, if Malaysia is to embrace multiculturalism it has to embrace all its main religions. To help understand all the differnet religions, all students should study each religion in an objective informative way. Otherwise what forrestcat suggests would mean the non Muslims would understand Islam, but the Muslims would not understand Hinduism, Buddism or Christianity, which wouldn't do much for multiculturalism.
Sadly, I feel that the deepseated roots of racism in adults is going to be too difficult to change but, maybe with the right education, the children can teach the adults a thing or two.
If it can be done, race based political partys should also be abolished, but with UMNO and BM being in power, I don't really see this happening in the near future.
I hate to say this and there will probably be lots of people who disagee with me, but I think Mahatir has done much in polarising Malaysia.
forrestcat
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 9 2006, 02:34 PM) *
Wow a very interesting topic.
I personally belief racism and "hatred"is learnt and therefore the only way to get rid of it and embrace racial tolerance is through our children.
I think all children should attend the same school and there should not be any "ethnic" schools, if religion is to be taught, it should be done outside of a "normal" school.
I disaree with forrestcat that Islam should be taught at all schools because it is the official religion of Malaysia, if Malaysia is to embrace multiculturalism it has to embrace all its main religions. To help understand all the differnet religions, all students should study each religion in an objective informative way. Otherwise what forrestcat suggests would mean the non Muslims would understand Islam, but the Muslims would not understand Hinduism, Buddism or Christianity, which wouldn't do much for multiculturalism.
Sadly, I feel that the deepseated roots of racism in adults is going to be too difficult to change but, maybe with the right education, the children can teach the adults a thing or two.
If it can be done, race based political partys should also be abolished, but with UMNO and BM being in power, I don't really see this happening in the near future.
I hate to say this and there will probably be lots of people who disagee with me, but I think Mahatir has done much in polarising Malaysia.


I dun really agree teaching Islam in our syllabus, I used to wonder why M'sia gahmen have non-muslim study about Islam, apparently it's becoz Islam is the official religion, besides having to study Islam , this also gives some jurisdiction for Syariah law and gahmen fund the buidlings of mosques( i used to wonder why gahmen build mosques only).

That's why, since we have each other, it's best we learn from each other instead of some text books. For example, I met a Chinese lad at INTEC, Shah Alam who dunno anything about Islam and he kept asking me and other Muslims about Islam, and at the same time, I know more about his religion like their view on the trinity and the sacrifice of Jesus. Even at our secondary school, when we started studying about other religions in Sejarah we did ask non-Muslim classmates about their religion........but this might not occur in schools where there is only one race though.Hence I am against vernacular schools and MRSMs which are based on race. Eventhough I went to national schools which is not as pretentious as a vernacular or MRSM schools, I value the fact that I am able to meet friends of various races.
caramel
Our Sejarah / History subject is distorted. Many of the REAL facts are removed from the textbooks or changed. Many of the Chinese street names or Chinese named buildings are changed as well.
forrestcat
QUOTE (caramel @ Apr 9 2006, 03:08 PM) *
Our Sejarah / History subject is distorted. Many of the REAL facts are removed from the textbooks or changed. Many of the Chinese street names or Chinese named buildings are changed as well.


really??? confused.gif

u know what, Sejarah was my favourite subject, I won't like the idea that what i've been reading and learning is false. But then, our history books in form 5 keeps changing, so maybe it's updated version...but yeah...maybe it's changed to present interpretation.

These changing of street names remind me of the cultural revoltion in China where traditional street names deemed counterrevolutionary to Mao Zedong (he's a fool but smart and cunning) are changed 's to stupid names........we are not in a cultural revolution are we? icon_confused.gif Is there some significance to changing names of streets, coz I dun really care whether there are more Malay name streets or Chinese name streets, it's just a street, if the street is after the name of someone famous, better remember his/her deeds than through the name of a street after him/her, but then, some ppl may take this seriously. icon_confused.gif
swingdoctor
QUOTE (forrestcat @ Apr 9 2006, 03:18 AM) *
really??? confused.gif

u know what, Sejarah was my favourite subject, I won't like the idea that what i've been reading and learning is false. But then, our history books in form 5 keeps changing, so maybe it's updated version...but yeah...maybe it's changed to present interpretation.

These changing of street names remind me of the cultural revoltion in China where traditional street names deemed counterrevolutionary to Mao Zedong (he's a fool but smart and cunning) are changed 's to stupid names........we are not in a cultural revolution are we? icon_confused.gif Is there some significance to changing names of streets, coz I dun really care whether there are more Malay name streets or Chinese name streets, it's just a street, if the street is after the name of someone famous, better remember his/her deeds than through the name of a street after him/her, but then, some ppl may take this seriously. icon_confused.gif

I thought sejarah was boring because what we learnt in form 2-3 was basically the same rehashed stuff that we learnt in Std 5 icon_redface.gif . Every time I go back to JB it seems more and more chinese street names are being changed to Malay names icon_sad.gif .
I have to admit now that I'm older, I would have liked to know not only about Hang Tuah, Hang Jebat, Tun Perak etc but also how it came to being why the Chinese/Indians came to Malaysia, the situations that encouraged them to leave China/India and come to Malaysia. Basically besides the one guy who has a street named after him in KL(and whose name I can't now remember icon_redface.gif ) there isn't really anything else about the chinese mentioned and nothing about the Indians that I can remember.
History also depends on who writes it. Have you ever noticed that in History books the winner is also by and large the one who was "righteous"?
Thoughts anyone?
forrestcat
^ The history books do mention that Chinese came to Malaya coz of better opportunities in the tin mining back then and some came here to open businesses mainly to escape the turmoil on China at that time while Indians were systematically shipped from India to toil in the rubber plantations while some were merchants based in Penang. I believe many wealthy Chinese escaped to Malaya prior to the Japanese invasion, my Chinese friend grandfather was a merchant from China who escaped here in the 40's to Penang Island, he got many grandmas (probably most of them concubines???) , so he got many ang paus during CNY. embarassedlaugh.gif
caramel
If you learnt Sejarah the same time I did, they did mention that Yap Ah Loy is the founder of Kuala Lumpur. Right now, he is not even mentioned (if I am not mistaken, cause I read an article on that).

So, is he not significant in the M'sian history and not worth being mentioned? The street names in Chinese were town heroes. Are they not considered as heroes now? This is so sad.
forrestcat
QUOTE (caramel @ Apr 9 2006, 08:27 PM) *
If you learnt Sejarah the same time I did, they did mention that Yap Ah Loy is the founder of Kuala Lumpur. Right now, he is not even mentioned (if I am not mistaken, cause I read an article on that).

So, is he not significant in the M'sian history and not worth being mentioned? The street names in Chinese were town heroes. Are they not considered as heroes now? This is so sad.


Yap Ah Loy was mentioned in the brown Sejarah book... but I mostly know about Yap Ah Loy and Sultan Pusa from Lat's cartoon book..... embarassedlaugh.gif
johnleemk
QUOTE (tengkuafif @ Apr 9 2006, 06:39 AM) *
The second point which hinders the creation of the bangsa Malaysia is the perceptive of the non-Malays towards the Malays. The big question here,why can't they just assimilate or a least being appreciative on what has been given to them?

Bangsa Malaysia is not Bangsa Melayu. The two are different. Malaysia is too heterogeneous to have all ethnic groups assimilated into one ethnic group, so the next best thing we can do is have inter-assimilation, where everyone recognises our common similarities and do their best to act in a race-blind manner towards one another. Some plural societies such as the US are headed this way -- in the past, assimilating new immigrants into the Anglo-Saxon identity was easy because WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) were the hugely dominant majority. Now that the Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics are all equal citizens and growing in number, it's ridiculous to attempt to assimilate them, especially considering their size.

And if by "grateful" you mean "let the Malays treat you like kaum pendatang", well, now you know why so many non-Malays are "ungrateful". As far as non-Malays who were born Malaysians are concerned, we have been given nothing. We were born to Malaysian parents, and were raised as Malaysians. We owe nobody anything for our citizenship. Do the Blacks of America owe the Whites or Native Americans a debt for their citizenship?

QUOTE
Truthfully, the Malays aren't racist people. Don't you realise how can a Chinese shop survive in a predominantly Malay kampung? Just look at the Malay heartland states where the Chinese could successfully build their business there whilst their Malay counterparts keep buying stuffs from them. I don't know this could work the other way round. We won't ask more.

Why are we emphasising race here? To me, it's a Malaysian shop selling goods to Malaysians. This was a good analogy prior to independence, but now that we are all Malaysians, it's anachronistic. And there's nothing stopping Malay Malaysians from opening their own shops. If they can compete, good for them.

This doesn't mean the Malay Malaysians shouldn't be given help, however. They are often hampered by a lack of business experience, insufficient capital, and few connections (compare with the Chinese, whose networking capabilities are enhanced by their clannish associations) -- in other words, they have less opportunities than the Chinese. Every Malaysian should have equal opportunities. However, how does it help these budding Malay entrepreneurs when the government is focused on subsidising real estate purchases, giving out projects to Class F contractors (who, mind you, are a very small percentage of the Bumis), etc.? I know you guys are tired of me quoting Lee Kuan Yew (who, for all his rhetoric in the early days of Malaysia, was and is a racist), but how does it help a poor Malay farmer if you only give him handouts (or worse still, give a rich urban Malay handouts)? The government's priorities in its affirmative action policies are totally screwed up. Isn't a wonder that the non-Malays are "ungrateful" when they are called kaum pendatang who shouldn't be considered citizens, and then taxed (because they are citizens in name) to give handouts to a small percentage of the Bumi population?

QUOTE
If you can speak good Malay, you are already part of them. That's one thing for sure.

So if a Mat Salleh can speak Mandarin with a flawless accent, he is Chinese? Seems quite unsure to me. Anyway, race doesn't matter. To me, there is no point harping on race. The correct thing to say is, "If you can speak good Bahasa Malaysia, you are already part of Malaysia. That's one thing for sure."

QUOTE
But this is pretty logical isn't it? If you are in a native land, you of course want to acquire the conversational skills to that of the native people. If you have a terrible accent, how can you be part of them?

No, you want to speak the national language. (Which in our case is the language of the natives, but this isn't always so.) As an aside, (yes, I know...) one of my favourite Lee Kuan Yew speeches is the one he made in Parliament (in BM!) condemning ketuanan Melayu:
QUOTE (Lee Kuan Yew)
Of course there are Chinese millionaires in big cars and big houses. Is it the answer to make a few Malay millionaires with big cars and big houses? ... If we delude people into believing that they are poor because there are no Malay rights or because opposition members oppose Malay rights, where are we going to end up? You let people in the kampongs believe that they are poor because we don't speak Malay, because the government does not write in Malay, so he expects a miracle to take place in 1967 (the year Malay would become the national and sole official language in Malaysia). The moment we all start speaking Malay, he is going to have an uplift in the standard of living, and if it doesn't happen, what happens then? Meanwhile, whenever there is a failure of economic, social and educational policies, you come back and say, oh, these wicked Chinese, Indian and others opposing Malay rights. They don't oppose Malay rights. They, the Malay, have the right as Malaysian citizens to go up to the level of training and education that the more competitive societies, the non-Malay society, has produced. That is what must be done, isn't it? Not to feed them with this obscurantist doctrine that all they have got to do is to get Malay rights for the few special Malays and their problem has been resolved.


QUOTE
A supporting question to the second point above is,why wouldn't the non-Malays speak the national language at home? And the answer is pretty obvious isn't it?

If you treat them like kaum pendatang, is it any wonder that they behave like kaum pendatang? And anyway, what's the relevance of this? In other countries non-indigenous and non-majority groups who are citizens can still speak their native language at home without being treated like outcasts who would betray the country in an instant.
Iron Malayan
I don't know what the hell that Baradan Kuppusamy thinks he is.
If I was born an Indian , I would know my damn place instead of name-calling the very ppl who look upon my race in utter disdain.



QUOTE
Private companies must hand over 30% of equity to ethnic Malays
QUOTE
ethnic-Chinese community, which still dominates business in Malaysia, as it does throughout most of Southeast Asia.
These moronic satements clearly show us how incompetent he is.

Baradan Kupusamy is just a fruitcake.
tengkuafif
To johnleemk:
You can write anything you want,johnleemk. But my conclusion is, there's no other place like Malaysia where the non-natives/immigrant citizens are treated with full respect.

You write for the Wikipedia,don't you?Why don't you expand your knowledge there?
Just read on how other minority citizens are treated by the different Government throughout the world.
Maybe you can refer to countries like Japan,Korea,Indonesia,Australia,US etc. Read their history and their current situation and compare it here with Malaysia.
One thing for sure, we never treat other citizens in this country with total humiliation.
Be grateful on what you have.It's better to have something than nothing.
swingdoctor
My understanding is that by law 30% of private companies have to be owned by Bumi's. Is this not correct?
The article I feel, is an objective view of one person who has researched this particular topic. Choose to believe it or not. You may dispute the conclusions but I don't think you can dispute the findings(the survey). If the findings are true then I feel it is disturbing, as it suggests at the very least the races are polarised, the reasons of which are open to discussion. Irrespective of which, I feel that it does serve as a warning to what Malaysia could become in the future.
Because someone writes something less then flattering about Malaysia doesn't mean that they are critisizing Malaysia, I personally fell the author has tried to be objective.
forrestcat
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 10 2006, 08:48 AM) *
My understanding is that by law 30% of private companies have to be owned by Bumi's. Is this not correct?
The article I feel, is an objective view of one person who has researched this particular topic. Choose to believe it or not. You may dispute the conclusions but I don't think you can dispute the findings(the survey). If the findings are true then I feel it is disturbing, as it suggests at the very least the races are polarised, the reasons of which are open to discussion. Irrespective of which, I feel that it does serve as a warning to what Malaysia could become in the future.
Because someone writes something less then flattering about Malaysia doesn't mean that they are critisizing Malaysia, I personally fell the author has tried to be objective.


^ This is not correct. A company should have at least a Bumi co-partner ,not the Bumi partner to own 30% of the company. U may have the person as the company co-partner but the Bumi co-partner does not receive profits from the company if he/she does not contribute to the company. My cousin is a co-partner in her boss' company, but she doesn't get anything, if not she'd be driving a Merc like her boss.So it's a good thing for u to have a good reliable Bumi friend to sign some papers if u wanna open a company in M'sia.
swingdoctor
QUOTE (forrestcat @ Apr 9 2006, 08:06 PM) *
^ This is not correct. A company should have at least a Bumi co-partner not the Bumi partner to own 30% of the company. U may have the person as the company co-partner but the Bumi co-partner does not receive profits from the company if he/she does not contribute to the company. My cousin is a co-partner in her boss' company, but she doesn't get anything, if not she'd be driving a Merc like her boss.So it's a good thing for u to have a good reliable Bumi friend to sign some papers if u wanna open a company in M'sia.

So the Bumi has to own 30% of the company but may be a silent partner?
Is this irrespective of the size of the company ie weather it has 1000 employees or 10 employees?
What about if the company fails, is the Bumi then responsible for any debts incurred?
It would seem unfair that if they didn't share in the profits, they should then be legally bound to share any losses.
forrestcat
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 10 2006, 10:06 AM) *
So the Bumi has to own 30% of the company but may be a silent partner?
Is this irrespective of the size of the company ie weather it has 1000 employees or 10 employees?
What about if the company fails, is the Bumi then responsible for any debts incurred?
It would seem unfair that if they didn't share in the profits, they should then be legally bound to share any losses.


Yeah,if the company fails, the registered co-partner also shoulder the losses, something my cousin is afraid of, it's like being a 'guarantor'. The Bumi silent Bumi co-partner does not need to own 30% of the company, it's just registering the name followed by a signature that's all. But I am pretty vague about this, so u better look up to better info about this.

I think u got the 30% of Bumi ownership of M'sian companies mixed up with the NEP goal for Bumis to have 30% share of the economy.... icon_smile.gif
caramel
I thought the 30% is the quota of Bumi employees in the corporation?
swingdoctor
QUOTE (forrestcat @ Apr 9 2006, 10:13 PM) *
Yeah,if the company fails, the registered co-partner also shoulder the losses, something my cousin is afraid of, it's like being a 'guarantor'. The Bumi silent Bumi co-partner does not need to own 30% of the company, it's just registering the name followed by a signature that's all. But I am pretty vague about this, so u better look up to better info about this.

I think u got the 30% of Bumi ownership of M'sian companies mixed up with the NEP goal for Bumis to have 30% share of the economy.... icon_smile.gif

I'm fairly certain that when I still lived in Malaysia(abt 20 yrs ago) Bumi's had to own 50% of private companies.
If your cousin is liable if the company fails, why did he/she agree to be part owner of the company on paper? Does he/she recieve any compensation for the "risk" they are taking?
forrestcat
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 10 2006, 02:33 PM) *
I'm fairly certain that when I still lived in Malaysia(abt 20 yrs ago) Bumi's had to own 50% of private companies.
If your cousin is liable if the company fails, why did he/she agree to be part owner of the company on paper? Does he/she recieve any compensation for the "risk" they are taking?


My cousin worked at the co. for almost 10 years now, she trusts her boss. Apparently, she had to register how much capital she injected into the co., since she contributed none, she does not get any profits .
swingdoctor
QUOTE (forrestcat @ Apr 10 2006, 03:06 AM) *
My cousin worked at the co. for almost 10 years now, she trusts her boss. Apparently, she had to register how much capital she injected into the co., since she contributed none, she does not get any profits .

Your cousin sounds like a very good person biggthumpup.gif
I hope she will one day be rewarded for her generosity.
johnleemk
QUOTE (tengkuafif @ Apr 10 2006, 02:37 AM) *
To johnleemk:
You can write anything you want,johnleemk. But my conclusion is, there's no other place like Malaysia where the non-natives/immigrant citizens are treated with full respect.

Yes, because it really is full bloody RESPECT to hold a blue IC and Malaysian passport and then be told that you are PENDATANG ASING and ORANG TUMPANGAN who can be exiled at a moment's notice. That is a totally false premise. It is direspectful to the idea of citizenship to grant the non-Malays citizenship and then refuse to treat them as equal citizens (rights-wise, not necessarily privileges-wise). Either tell us, "Fine, you're not citizens, you're just lousy pendatang who get to stay here because there would be international outcry if we evicted you like Idi Amin did with the Indian Ugandans," or accept us as full citizens. There can be nothing in between. Anything in between demeans the concept of citizenship and belonging to Malaysia.

QUOTE
You write for the Wikipedia,don't you?Why don't you expand your knowledge there?
Just read on how other minority citizens are treated by the different Government throughout the world.
Maybe you can refer to countries like Japan,Korea,Indonesia,Australia,US etc. Read their history and their current situation and compare it here with Malaysia.
One thing for sure, we never treat other citizens in this country with total humiliation.
Be grateful on what you have.It's better to have something than nothing.

*cough* I have.
Iron Malayan
Non-Bumis are no longer required to have a Bumi partner to set up a private company.


BTW 30% Bumi participation is only required during initial public offering.(IPO)
juwanFromTaiwan
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 10 2006, 12:47 PM) *
Non-Bumis are no longer required to have a Bumi partner to set up a private company.


BTW 30% Bumi participation is only required during initial public offering.(IPO)


Iron Malayan are you in good terms with Iranians, Pakistanians, and Arabians? Muslim just like you? In your latest research did you find pure Malays to be in fact related to these people? I bet you did biggrin.gif Way to go. And oh yea Islam was originally a Malay religion. Way to go idiot.
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Apr 10 2006, 11:53 AM) *
Iron Malayan are you in good terms with Iranians, Pakistanians, and Arabians? Muslim just like you? In your latest research did you find pure Malays to be in fact related to these people? I bet you did biggrin.gif Way to go. And oh yea Islam was originally a Malay religion. Way to go idiot.

Dude, what the fu-k are you talking about
juwanFromTaiwan
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 10 2006, 01:00 PM) *
Dude, what the fu-k are you talking about


You do know the origins of Islam? Right? And as a good Muslim you are pretty hateful of others. Im completely non-religious not athiest because that's a person that is counter of religion and thus much of history. But do you think Malays and Middle-Easterners are related?
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Apr 10 2006, 12:02 PM) *
You do know the origins of Islam? Right? And as a good Muslim you are pretty hateful of others. Im completely non-religious not athiest because that's a person that is counter of religion and thus much of history. But do you think Malays and Middle-Easterners are related?
No. Malays and middle easteners are not related.
juwanFromTaiwan
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 10 2006, 01:08 PM) *
No. Malays and middle easteners are not related.

Not even to the Malay adoring Iranians. With their lighter than Arab complexion on the average and their caucasoidal caricatures? I think you're missing up on a great finding here embarassedlaugh.gif2
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Apr 10 2006, 12:10 PM) *
Not even to the Malay adoring Iranians. With their lighter than Arab complexion on the average and their caucasoidal caricatures? I think you're missing up on a great finding here embarassedlaugh.gif2
Caucasoidal caricatures ? What the hell is that ?
juwanFromTaiwan
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 10 2006, 01:16 PM) *
Caucasoidal caricatures ? What the hell is that ?


High-nose bridges, deep-set eyes, and thin lips. Prominent brow & skull ratios/shapes.
Iron Malayan
offtopic.gif

QUOTE (juwanFromTaiwan @ Apr 10 2006, 12:20 PM) *
High-nose bridges, deep-set eyes, and thin lips. Prominent brow & skull ratios/shapes.
Why don't you visit Malaysia and calculate for yourself the percentage of Malays with "caucasoidal caricature".
juwanFromTaiwan
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 10 2006, 01:35 PM) *
offtopic.gif

Why don't you visit Malaysia and calculate for yourself the percentage of Malays with "caucasoidal caricature".


Same reason I dont like Hawaii or main island Tahiti. I dont like to be treated like a tourist in a place I should fit in pretty well. Caucasoidal caricature to that extreme is not only sometimes "fugly" but not natural to the Pacific Asia Rim. You are Eurocentric in your views whether you choose to accept it or not. I like the mixture of variety of features and do like a person like "Jessica Alba" is clearly a lil bit of this and that in features.

But back to the tourist thing, na. I would go but seeing inconsistencies here and there, because I know Malaysia has disparities in this made up economic imposed way of life, and that would not be much of a trip worth seeing. I would probably like to visit the country side and the more natural aspects that fit my nature. biggrin.gif
Iron Malayan
QUOTE (caramel @ Apr 9 2006, 02:08 AM) *
Our Sejarah / History subject is distorted. Many of the REAL facts are removed from the textbooks or changed. Many of the Chinese street names or Chinese named buildings are changed as well.
Many of the Chinese street names are still around. Chow Kit Road, Jalan Yap Kwan Seng, Jalan Tun HS Lee, Jalan Yong Shook Lin etc etc etc
swingdoctor
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 10 2006, 11:47 AM) *
Non-Bumis are no longer required to have a Bumi partner to set up a private company.


BTW 30% Bumi participation is only required during initial public offering.(IPO)

Does the 30% have to remain in Bumi hands or are they after purchase allowed to sell them on the open market?
johnleemk
They may sell them on the open market. Which, sadly, happens far too often.
swingdoctor
QUOTE (johnleemk @ Apr 11 2006, 08:55 AM) *
They may sell them on the open market. Which, sadly, happens far too often.

Good way to make a quick buck. I can see how it would help the more posperous Malays but I don't think it will help the majority of them. icon_sad.gif
Iron Malayan
Tell that to your ppl who sold their passport for a quick buck.
QUOTE (johnleemk @ Apr 9 2006, 09:12 AM) *
As far as non-Malays who were born Malaysians are concerned, we have been given nothing.
If they received nothing, why are they getting handouts, subsidies, grants and scholarships ?
swingdoctor
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 11 2006, 11:45 AM) *
Tell that to your ppl who sold their passport for a quick buck.

What is the going rate for a Malaysian passport currently and who generally would try to buy one? Is it true that if you "lose" your passport another one won't be issues for a certain number of years?
johnleemk
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 12 2006, 12:45 AM) *
If they received nothing, why are they getting handouts, subsidies, grants and scholarships ?

Taken out of context. I was referring to the idea that non-Malay Malaysians were given citizenship. As far as those who were born as Malaysian citizens are concerned, there was no such grant. It was and is ours of our right.
Iron Malayan
USD40,000 . Triads and snakeheads in this region who smuggle their own Chinese ppl from Asia to Western Europe and Australia.
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 11 2006, 05:18 PM) *
What is the going rate for a Malaysian passport currently and who generally would try to buy one? Is it true that if you "lose" your passport another one won't be issues for a certain number of years?
juwanFromTaiwan
QUOTE (Iron Malayan @ Apr 12 2006, 10:52 AM) *
USD40,000 . Triads and snakeheads in this region who smuggle their own Chinese ppl from Asia to Western Europe and Australia.


40k isnt too much to pay for the capital of serenity in SE Asia IMO. Western Europe? Other than a Naples, Italy or Nice, France why would people wanna settle in Western Europe? Australia has still a huge open frontier of unihabitance, but people go there for the economic opportunity in metropolitans.
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