Full Version: Should Australia given back to Aborigines
As stated above
QUOTE (Nusantara @ Apr 7 2006, 10:18 PM) 
As stated above
Australia has already started to give back large chunks of the land to the Aboriginals. Although "ownership" doesn't allow them to buy and sell the land as you would own a house, they are allowed to live on the land as it was their own. The land is not allowed to be used and that includes transversing it by other members of the Aust community without their consent. Ularu(Ayres Rock) is a case in point. Visitors pay a fee which directly goes to the local Aboriginal community. "Modern" services are also provided for them alot of it for free. The laws pertaining to "return" the land to the aboriginals are quite complex and I don't quite fully understand it. I don't think anywhere else in the world this is happening. Happy to be corrected.
Tribal laws, to a certain extent and punishment is also being implemented some of it in mainstream Aust courts.
is this the Australian Serious Talk?
yeah..australia can be called tanah jajahan now...
just like indonesia 60 years ago..
just like indonesia 60 years ago..
I think they shouldn't given back to Aborigins, provided Australia treat them very well.
I mean.. like give them security for their social-economic, culture, and education off course.
I mean.. like give them security for their social-economic, culture, and education off course.
Nope. Theres not really a need to. Aborigines are already well taken care off by the the Australian government.
QUOTE (e_vaholic @ Apr 8 2006, 08:29 AM)
yeah..australia can be called tanah jajahan now...
just like indonesia 60 years ago..
just like indonesia 60 years ago..
I guess thats a matter of perspective, but I get your point
you're smart then...swingdoctor!!
QUOTE (e_vaholic @ Apr 8 2006, 06:58 PM)
you're smart then...swingdoctor!!
One difference though, Aust is not controlled by any outside source.
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 9 2006, 08:25 AM)
One difference though, Aust is not controlled by any outside source.
I tot Australia is controlled by Her Majesty the Queen? Hehehe.. bloody pommies...
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Apr 10 2006, 07:51 AM)
I tot Australia is controlled by Her Majesty the Queen? Hehehe.. bloody pommies...
Yeah, I'm still abit sore the republic referendum got defeated.
Johnny Howards fault. He's a Royalist and although most Aust are republicans, he was an astute enough politician to divide the republicans. We couldn't decide how to elect a president therefore the entire referendum got defeated.
Yeah the bloddy pommies everything they touched in Asia caused problems.
Hey do you mind if I ask your race?
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 10 2006, 04:43 PM)
Yeah, I'm still abit sore the republic referendum got defeated.
Johnny Howards fault. He's a Royalist and although most Aust are republicans, he was an astute enough politician to divide the republicans. We couldn't decide how to elect a president therefore the entire referendum got defeated.
Yeah the bloddy pommies everything they touched in Asia caused problems.
Hey do you mind if I ask your race?
Johnny Howards fault. He's a Royalist and although most Aust are republicans, he was an astute enough politician to divide the republicans. We couldn't decide how to elect a president therefore the entire referendum got defeated.
Yeah the bloddy pommies everything they touched in Asia caused problems.
Hey do you mind if I ask your race?
So now you see why the Indonesians don't trust how the Aussies are handling the political refugees from Irian Jaya, ya?
These days, with the widespread use of TV journalism and internet, how a country projects itself is really important. Many asians view Australia's hawks in the government as wolves in sheepskins. Especially their businessmen who possess this frontier cowboy mentality where they think they are just brainier than thou..
My race? I am Singaporean. Juz choose any of the 4 major races and you'll find that I have a bit of everything there is.
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Apr 11 2006, 02:07 AM)
So now you see why the Indonesians don't trust how the Aussies are handling the political refugees from Irian Jaya, ya?
These days, with the widespread use of TV journalism and internet, how a country projects itself is really important. Many asians view Australia's hawks in the government as wolves in sheepskins. Especially their businessmen who possess this frontier cowboy mentality where they think they are just brainier than thou..
My race? I am Singaporean. Juz choose any of the 4 major races and you'll find that I have a bit of everything there is.
These days, with the widespread use of TV journalism and internet, how a country projects itself is really important. Many asians view Australia's hawks in the government as wolves in sheepskins. Especially their businessmen who possess this frontier cowboy mentality where they think they are just brainier than thou..
My race? I am Singaporean. Juz choose any of the 4 major races and you'll find that I have a bit of everything there is.
To be honest in this case I feel the Aust govnt would have prefered if they could keep the refugees from Irian Jaya out but if they did I feel most of Aust would be up in arms.
I have to admit I wasn't happy that when the refugees arrived in Australia they started making political statements about Irian Jaya. My feeling is that if you claim to be a refugee and you want to come to Aust for a better life, then leave all your politics behind. The majorityof people who have come here want a peaceful life and left all this "crap" behind when they left "home". The last thing we want is for other people who want to come here to bring their problems from home with them.
Being from Malaysia I can understand the distrust of Aust but, having been here for a while I haven't found Aust prejudical against other people, except of course a radical few. The last time someone said anything remotely racist to me was abt 19 yrs ago. Where as in Malaysia my race was always an issue. I don't know much about Aust businessmen, only know a few.
Ahh, I wanted to know if you understood Malay, b/c if you didn't I could have made fun of you that you didn't understand your National Anthem but you probably do.
It seems unfair that you can tease me abt Aust but I didn't know enough to "tembak balik". Singapore really should do something about that. I think they're the only country where the majority of the popn, doesn't understand their national anthem, worse still their neighbours do.
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 11 2006, 03:51 AM)
To be honest in this case I feel the Aust govnt would have prefered if they could keep the refugees from Irian Jaya out but if they did I feel most of Aust would be up in arms.
I have to admit I wasn't happy that when the refugees arrived in Australia they started making political statements about Irian Jaya. My feeling is that if you claim to be a refugee and you want to come to Aust for a better life, then leave all your politics behind. The majorityof people who have come here want a peaceful life and left all this "crap" behind when they left "home". The last thing we want is for other people who want to come here to bring their problems from home with them.
Being from Malaysia I can understand the distrust of Aust but, having been here for a while I haven't found Aust prejudical against other people, except of course a radical few. The last time someone said anything remotely racist to me was abt 19 yrs ago. Where as in Malaysia my race was always an issue. I don't know much about Aust businessmen, only know a few.
Ahh, I wanted to know if you understood Malay, b/c if you didn't I could have made fun of you that you didn't understand your National Anthem but you probably do. It seems unfair that you can tease me abt Aust but I didn't know enough to "tembak balik". Singapore really should do something about that. I think they're the only country where the majority of the popn, doesn't understand their national anthem, worse still their neighbours do.
I have to admit I wasn't happy that when the refugees arrived in Australia they started making political statements about Irian Jaya. My feeling is that if you claim to be a refugee and you want to come to Aust for a better life, then leave all your politics behind. The majorityof people who have come here want a peaceful life and left all this "crap" behind when they left "home". The last thing we want is for other people who want to come here to bring their problems from home with them.
Being from Malaysia I can understand the distrust of Aust but, having been here for a while I haven't found Aust prejudical against other people, except of course a radical few. The last time someone said anything remotely racist to me was abt 19 yrs ago. Where as in Malaysia my race was always an issue. I don't know much about Aust businessmen, only know a few.
Ahh, I wanted to know if you understood Malay, b/c if you didn't I could have made fun of you that you didn't understand your National Anthem but you probably do.
It seems unfair that you can tease me abt Aust but I didn't know enough to "tembak balik". Singapore really should do something about that. I think they're the only country where the majority of the popn, doesn't understand their national anthem, worse still their neighbours do.Indeed Malaysia is too race-obsessed, the whole Malaysian politics is based on race. Let's hope this kind of racism don't spread to Indonesia.
RESULTS SO FAR:
9 (75%) SUPPORTED AUSTRALIA BEING RETURNED TO ABORIGINES
3 (25%) SUPPORTED AUSTRALIA KEPT BY WHITES
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 11 2006, 11:51 AM)
Ahh, I wanted to know if you understood Malay, b/c if you didn't I could have made fun of you that you didn't understand your National Anthem but you probably do. It seems unfair that you can tease me abt Aust but I didn't know enough to "tembak balik". Singapore really should do something about that. I think they're the only country where the majority of the popn, doesn't understand their national anthem, worse still their neighbours do.
It seems unfair that you can tease me abt Aust but I didn't know enough to "tembak balik". Singapore really should do something about that. I think they're the only country where the majority of the popn, doesn't understand their national anthem, worse still their neighbours do.Well, that's what I figured and told Malaccan before, that most Asians can't help but tart you with the same brush just on what little they know of your race! So don't commit the same mistake Swingdoc. I'll tease u about your country but not on your race.. hehe
Singaporeans don't understand their national anthem? Well, the majority weren't taught Malay as a first language lah..
Don't tell me you can recite the Aussie national anthem?
QUOTE (tangawizi @ Apr 11 2006, 05:47 AM)
Well, that's what I figured and told Malaccan before, that most Asians can't help but tart you with the same brush just on what little they know of your race! So don't commit the same mistake Swingdoc. I'll tease u about your country but not on your race.. hehe
Singaporeans don't understand their national anthem? Well, the majority weren't taught Malay as a first language lah..
Don't tell me you can recite the Aussie national anthem?
Singaporeans don't understand their national anthem? Well, the majority weren't taught Malay as a first language lah..
Don't tell me you can recite the Aussie national anthem?
I can sing the first verse and chorus to the ending but unfortuantely not many people(including Aussies) know that there's a second verse to our national anthem
I wasn't going to make fun of your race
. Just going to assume that if you were chinese you wouldn't understand malay, then I could make fun of your nationality. I tease my GF who is Chinese Singaporean, good way to win an argument when you're debating Singapore vs Malaysia 
. All just in jest natrually.I didn't get the meaning of the early section of your post? Then again there are things I just don't get
2
In the spirit of gaving back Australia to the Aborigines 
How about (I know it's OOT) Gaving back America to the Native Americans (Indians).
If I can do time travel, I wish I could gave Aztec, Mayan, and Incan the technology of gunpowder about a hundred years earlier.
And then let 'em get rid Europeans out of America once and for all.....
How about (I know it's OOT) Gaving back America to the Native Americans (Indians).
If I can do time travel, I wish I could gave Aztec, Mayan, and Incan the technology of gunpowder about a hundred years earlier.
And then let 'em get rid Europeans out of America once and for all.....
RESULTS SO FAR:
10 (76.92%) SUPPORTING AUSTRALIA BEING RETURNED TO ABORIGINES
3 (23.08%) SUPPORTING AUSTRALIA KEPT BY WHITES
10 (76.92%) SUPPORTING AUSTRALIA BEING RETURNED TO ABORIGINES
3 (23.08%) SUPPORTING AUSTRALIA KEPT BY WHITES
QUOTE
Gaving back America to the Native Americans
start it up Majapahitans for interest in af lounge maybe?
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 8 2006, 02:21 AM)
Australia has already started to give back large chunks of the land to the Aboriginals. Although "ownership" doesn't allow them to buy and sell the land as you would own a house, they are allowed to live on the land as it was their own. The land is not allowed to be used and that includes transversing it by other members of the Aust community without their consent. Ularu(Ayres Rock) is a case in point. Visitors pay a fee which directly goes to the local Aboriginal community. "Modern" services are also provided for them alot of it for free. The laws pertaining to "return" the land to the aboriginals are quite complex and I don't quite fully understand it. I don't think anywhere else in the world this is happening. Happy to be corrected.
Tribal laws, to a certain extent and punishment is also being implemented some of it in mainstream Aust courts.
Tribal laws, to a certain extent and punishment is also being implemented some of it in mainstream Aust courts.
Why Aussie need to put aborigines in such as quarantined place? Why not living together side by side? there must be the reason.
QUOTE (Nusantara @ Apr 13 2006, 12:44 AM)
Why Aussie need to put aborigines in such as quarantined place? Why not living together side by side? there must be the reason.
We don't put them there, its not a reserve that we force them to live in. They can live anywhere in Australia they want. Most choose to live there, why don't know, maybe because its their ancestral home or they just were born there and natrually call it home. But they are certainly not made to live there.
^ Sad story of Aborigines living in Alice Springs, the town nearest to Ayers' Rock/Uluru now branded "ghettoes of despair" where crime, violence, and alcoholism reigned.
QUOTE
Tourist site is crime capital of Australia
By Nick Squires in Sydney
(Filed: 13/04/2006)
Renowned as the gateway to Ayers Rock, Alice Springs has been named Australia's crime capital and its Aboriginal camps branded "ghettoes of despair" reminiscent of African slums.
Figures reveal a record increase in violent crime among the 2,500 Aborigines who live in the dusty, rundown settlements on the outskirts of the desert town.
Physical and sexual assaults have risen by 50 per cent in the past year. In the past 16 months 15 people have died from alcohol-related violence.
The federal community services minister, Joe Hockey, called conditions in the camps indistinguishable from those in South Africa's notorious townships.
"It represents a sea of despair," he said. "The camps represent the very worst aspects of poverty in remote and regional Australia."
He compared the dilapidated Aboriginal settlements with a township outside Cape Town he visited more than a decade ago. "I could not differentiate between Cross Ways in 1990 and what I saw in Alice Springs in the 21st century. It is devastating stuff."
Hundreds of thousands of tourists pass through Alice Springs each year on their way to Ayers Rock, now known by its Aboriginal name of Uluru.
While it is impossible to miss the Aborigines drinking cheap wine in its dried-up river bed, few would be aware of the severity of the problems in its overcrowded camps.
The Northern Territory's justice minister, Peter Toyne, said there were camps he would not visit after midday because of drunkenness and the threat of violence.
"When 50,000 people drink 7.5 million litres of alcoholic beverages a year, that is a big problem for the whole community," he said.
Last weekend a 36-year-old Aboriginal man died after being stabbed at one of the camps and police seized axes and spears at another settlement.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...13/ixworld.html
By Nick Squires in Sydney
(Filed: 13/04/2006)
Renowned as the gateway to Ayers Rock, Alice Springs has been named Australia's crime capital and its Aboriginal camps branded "ghettoes of despair" reminiscent of African slums.
Figures reveal a record increase in violent crime among the 2,500 Aborigines who live in the dusty, rundown settlements on the outskirts of the desert town.
Physical and sexual assaults have risen by 50 per cent in the past year. In the past 16 months 15 people have died from alcohol-related violence.
The federal community services minister, Joe Hockey, called conditions in the camps indistinguishable from those in South Africa's notorious townships.
"It represents a sea of despair," he said. "The camps represent the very worst aspects of poverty in remote and regional Australia."
He compared the dilapidated Aboriginal settlements with a township outside Cape Town he visited more than a decade ago. "I could not differentiate between Cross Ways in 1990 and what I saw in Alice Springs in the 21st century. It is devastating stuff."
Hundreds of thousands of tourists pass through Alice Springs each year on their way to Ayers Rock, now known by its Aboriginal name of Uluru.
While it is impossible to miss the Aborigines drinking cheap wine in its dried-up river bed, few would be aware of the severity of the problems in its overcrowded camps.
The Northern Territory's justice minister, Peter Toyne, said there were camps he would not visit after midday because of drunkenness and the threat of violence.
"When 50,000 people drink 7.5 million litres of alcoholic beverages a year, that is a big problem for the whole community," he said.
Last weekend a 36-year-old Aboriginal man died after being stabbed at one of the camps and police seized axes and spears at another settlement.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...13/ixworld.html
QUOTE (purnomor @ Apr 13 2006, 08:52 AM)
^ Sad story of Aborigines living in Alice Springs, the town nearest to Ayers' Rock/Uluru now branded "ghettoes of despair" where crime, violence, and alcoholism reigned.
This shows that the aboriginal population has problems that we need to help sort out. It does not suggest discrimination or poor treatment by the rest of Australia.
QUOTE (swingdoctor @ Apr 13 2006, 06:38 PM)
It does not suggest discrimination or poor treatment by the rest of Australia.
Your defensive behavior shows your true attitude on Aborigines.
QUOTE (purnomor @ Apr 13 2006, 07:53 PM)
Your defensive behavior shows your true attitude on Aborigines.
Look I'm defending my position which is there is no widespread discrimination againts aborigines. In the past yes, but not now.
If you can show me direct credible evidence of discrimination against Aborigines I will gladly accept that you're right. Again all your arguments are still speculatine and based on incorrect assumptions. I'm happy to have an intelligent dabate with you. I would like a free exchange of opinions and facts. But seperate fact from opinion. If you believe Aust are rascists fine you are entitled to your opinion, but don't put your opinion as fact unless you can back it up with evidence.
Fact yes Australias treatment of Aborigines in the past is abhorent
Fact the quality of life for Aborigines in Aust on the average at the moment is much lower then then the rest of Aust.
All these are true
But you have not shown evidence that in todays Aust, there is discrimination against Aborigines or any other minority group.
There will always be some discrimination whenever 2 different racial groups get together and are not fully integrated be it in Aust, Malaysia, Indonesia, US, UK etc.
Again the fact is that there is positive discrimination to help the Aboriginal population improve their lot in life. If you have any suggestion as to how we can improve our treatment of them I'd be quite happy to discuss it.
QUOTE (purnomor @ Apr 14 2006, 11:53 AM)
Your defensive behavior shows your true attitude on Aborigines.
interesting, you come off to me as a hypocrite. you believe there is discrimination among the aborigines which is partially true. but what about the west papuans that you said were being treated nicely?
after reading this thread, all i can come up is that you're a person blinded by your indoneasian nationalism, thus meaning a enemy of indoneasia is an enemy of yours.
bloody stupid.
^ bloody stupid comment coming from a sleazy wanker 
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