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GawtxJenny
^^haha i ono what type of hmong people you be meeting but i have had encounters with some mean hmong gurls...

somebody said hmong is chinese people??
InstantKarma
QUOTE (GawtxJenny @ Feb 1 2005, 02:51 PM)
^^haha i ono what type of hmong people you be meeting but i have had encounters with some mean hmong gurls...
*

Sorry to hear that. The majority of us are not like that.


QUOTE (GawtxJenny @ Feb 1 2005, 02:51 PM)
somebody said hmong is chinese people??
*

No, we're not. Although I'm sure that some of us have a little Chinese in us due to inter-marriage between Hmong and Chinese people in the distant past.
ChanDaMan
Interesting info, I had no idea the Hmong existed before I became a member of AF.
minnesotastp
hmong stands for free, because we hmongs r free to express
everything about ourselves in every continent.
we're free because we have no state or country to govern.
most people think that its better to have a country but think about all the more problems we hmongs will face if we do have one.
so basically it stands for freedom to me because im free to do and go where i please and say what i want, and tocopy any form i want
lilasiankid
QUOTE (minnesotastp @ Mar 17 2005, 07:11 PM)
hmong stands for free, because we hmongs r free to express
everything about ourselves in every continent.
we're free because we have no state or country to govern.
most people think that its better to have a country but think about all the more problems we hmongs will face if we do have one.
so basically it stands for freedom to me because im free to do and go where i please and say what i want, and tocopy any form i want

*


That's true, but with all the in-fighting between our people.....do you think if we had our own country, we would be more united, and have a place to insure our culture's survival? Never gonna happen, but just something to wonder about....
minnesotastp
thats what i mean all the in-fighting will corrupt all of our hmongs
thats why its better not to have a country
do you think that we could stand together, no ,because we cant even stand together in another country
lilasiankid
Soooooo...that means Hmong will never be able to rise.....we will always be lower than everyone else......because we are always trying to pull eachother down....that is true....that is true.....that's actually right....

Oh wait! Maybe that's just the older Generation....you know, because they grew up like primitive villagers in 16th century lifestyle......you know how people like that are.....maybe the Generation in America, who will be educated and go to colleges and universities will think differently.....
minnesotastp
trust me they dont, older generation never had any gang or should i say hmong on hmong crime like these days, and the ones in college well most in college r the ones who get the best drugs and goto the best parties, but dont get me wrong there r some out there that r really studying but those r few
minnesotastp
listen to this this is hmong called the dance


http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1AZQC7RU77HW132TZD7QK57MLU
lilasiankid
But the thing is....they have a different mindset....
hmong_mn_boiz
biggthumpup.gif H.M.O.N.G


Hmong ,Moves ,On ,Nation ,Globe!!!!!!!!! biggthumpup.gif

thats tha truth...and they cant handle tha truth biggrin.gif
mIna
QUOTE (hmong_mn_boiz @ Mar 18 2005, 10:02 PM)
biggthumpup.gif H.M.O.N.G


Hmong ,Moves ,On ,Nation ,Globe!!!!!!!!!  biggthumpup.gif

thats tha truth...and they cant handle tha truth biggrin.gif
*


wowzerss... you got some supporting details for this dude? ^^

anyways if any who wish to know more about hmong history you may
pm or email me cutey_thaosta@hotmail.com

thank you..
hua
QUOTE (直隸總督 @ Jun 8 2004, 06:10 PM)
Let me ask a quick question, where did you get all these Miao people. In the school I attend and where I live, there's hardly any Miao. But when I come on this forum, it seems that many of you have " a lot of " Miao in your areas. Is it because the government of US concentrates all Miaos in certain regions?
*


No. But like any other ethnic minority, they tend to gravitate towards each other. Just think of all the China Towns. Anyways, if u really want to know where we're concentrated in the US, most of the Hmong's=Miao's are concentrated in the Central Valley of California (Sacramento, Merced, San Diego, Fresno, Stockton, Visalia, Santa Anna, etc.), Minnesota (St. Paul, & Minniapolis [Twin Cities]), Wisconsin (Green Bay, Appleton, Wausau, Stevens Point, Madison, etc.), North Carolina (Hickory, Charlotte, etc...). I may have left a couple out, but these are the major states and cities that they concentrate in. California having the most, then Minnesota, ofcourse with the concensus not yet updated, Minnesotta may have more today, with all the moving around happening.



Anyways, to those who still can't seem to agree on the term Hmong versus Miao, Meo termonology. And it's so true what some of you have already stated, you can't define a group of people. It's like trying to define Americans, Japanese, Native Americans, Blacks, etc. On the termonology itself, people may define it differently because of what it means to them personally. Below, I've bolded some of the comments I deemed important. So if you don't want to read the whole thing, just read what's bolded.


Quoted from Mai Na M. Lee
The Thousand-Year Myth: Construction and Characterization of Hmong

"Hmong," the word which an obscure people use to identify themselves, was not known to the world until two decades ago. Politically marginalized, it took the mountains upon which the Hmong inhabited to echo their name across the hemispheres........
Let us begin with the name "Hmong" itself. Virtually all authors who have written about the Hmong since the 1970's acknowledged the Hmong's preference to be known as "Hmong." In addition, almost everyone makes reference to the fact that the names "Miao" and "Meo," used by outsiders to identify the Hmong people, have pejorative connotations. Yet most of these authors, even those of respectable scholarly background, have refused to establish the trend of labeling the Hmong by their preferred name, citing academic consistency and established tradition as excuses. Today everyone and anyone who writes about Hmong is pulled into the debate of defining Hmong. Being here to discuss issues on Hmong I am also compelled to touch upon the name "Hmong."

There are two basic opposing views concerning the word "Hmong" in its written and spoken forms. Those who continue to use outsider's terms to identify the Hmong insist that the names "Miao" and "Meo" have no derogative connotations. On the other hand, Yang Dao, prominent as the first Laotian Hmong to hold a doctorate degree, argues that the word means "barbarian." Introduced into Indochina in the late nineteenth century, the word "Miao" degenerated to "Meo," a derogatory term. Swedish researcher Joakim Enwall disagreed with Yang, arguing that there is no reference to the fact that "Miao" meant barbarian although the people who used it to label the Hmong may have perceived the Hmong as barbarians. Finally, Enwall shoots down the arguments of Yang and other's who insist on the name Hmong by stripping the political context embedded in the debate of Hmong. Enwall raises questions regarding academic pragmatism versus a people's right to insist upon an orally correct name which may be impossible for others to pronounce. He also points to the fact that Chinese characters cannot accommodate the aspirated "m" in the word "Hmong." As to the meaning of the word "Miao," Enwall concludes: "To my Miao friends, I just want to say that the basic meaning of the word 'miao' in Chinese is 'young plant', which in an agrarian culture is certainly a more positive concept than that of a 'swede' in the western world."

The debate over whether the word "Miao" has negative connotations has been elaborated upon by many. Most writers have taken "Miao" to mean "aboriginal" with the added connotation of "uncivilized." However, others argue that the ancient form of the character "Miao," in fact, represented a cat's head and meant "cat." The Chinese probably used this word to describe the Hmong due to the Hmong's vocalized language which seemed to resemble the meowing of a cat. William Geddes found it difficult to believe that the Chinese thought there was similarity between the feline utterance and Hmong speech which resembles Chinese. However, he speculated upon the relevance of this argument, citing Chinese references which speak of the Hmong as having tails and Hmong belief in their own ability to transform into tigers after death.



Quoted from Gary Yia Lee (an anthropologists)
Cultural Identity In Post-Modern Society: Reflections on What is a Hmong?

The meanings of the terms "Hmong" and "Miao"

The term "Hmong" has come to be used internationally during the last twenty years, largely through the advocacy of the Hmong in Laos and through the pioneering work of Dr. Yang Dao (6), who first suggested that the word "Hmong" means "free people". Before this period, the international literature, following Chinese usage, usually refers to the Hmong as "Miao" or "Meo". Regardless of the name they use for themselves, most Hmong are hesitant about its meaning as they simply do not know.

Leaders of a messianic movement based in the former refugee camps in Thailand believe that the term "Peb Hmoob" (Us Hmoob) derives from the word "Peb Hmoov", meaning "the Tree Fortunes". The word "peb" can mean either "us" or "three". Hmong messianic legend has it that the Hmong were once delivered from the Chinese by a set of three brothers called "Peb Hmoov" (the Three Fortunes). Previous to this, the Hmong are said to call themselves "Keeb" (Quing or Ch'ing) or "originators". Despite the linguistic similarity between "Peb Hmoob" (the way the Hmong often refer to themselves) and "Peb Hmoov", this explanation seems to have confused Hmong origin with Vietnamese history. The Vietnamese are known as the Quing people, and they were at one time delivered from Chinese domination by the Le sisters, similar to the story of the three Hmong brothers. To complicate matters further, the Hmong in Laos and Thailand have been known as "Meo", a derivative of the Chinese word "Miao". With a slight change in accent, the word "Meo" in Lao and Thai can be pronounced to mean "cat". It is most offensive for many Asians to be compared to an animal, a lower form of beings in their views. For this reason, the Hmong have taken exception to being known as "Meo". The Lao government has complied by referring to them as "Lao Sung" or "Lao of the mountain tops", a term which also includes the I-Mien or Yao people. Thai authorities have taken no official line on the issue. Outsiders in Laos and Thailand may refer to the Hmong as "Hmong" when political correctness calls for it, otherwise the Hmong continue to be called "Meo".

According to Enwall , the term "Miao" was used in pre-Quin China to refer to non-Chinese people of Southern China, often in combination such as "Miao Min" (the Miao people), "Yu Miao" (the Miao) and "San Miao" (the three groups of Miao). Later, during the Tang and Sung dynasties, the term "Nan Man" (Southern Barbarians) was used, and it was not until 862 A.D. that the word "Miao" appeared again in Fan Chuo's book _Manshu on the Man Tribes_. During the Ming and Quing dynasties, both the terms "Man" and "Miao" were used. The Ming dynasty (1368-1644 A.D.) finally saw the term used for the Hmong in today's China where they are now referred to as "Miao-Tseu".

The Hmong in China are today reported to readily accept being called "Miao". Enwall (1992: 2) also contends that the Hmong in China have voiced no concern about the term, and it is impossible to write "Hmong" in Chinese characters (with a nasal 'h'). Regardless of this, the reference to the Hmong as "Miao-tseu" carries shades of ambiguity since it can be defined as either "rice sprouts" or "sons of the soil". The Chinese Hmong may have raised no objection because they are not aware of the ambiguous meanings of the term, or have not been ridiculed by the use of such a name unlike their brothers and sisters in Thailand or Laos.

Among themselves, the Hmong outside China prefer to be called "Hmong" (in the White Hmong dialect) or "Mong" (in Blue Hmong or Moob Lees). Those in China use such terms to designate themselves as "Ghao Xong" in Western Hunan; "Hmub", "Gha Ne" or "Hme" for a group speaking the same dialect in Southeastern Kweichow; "A Hmao" in Northwest Kweichow and Northeast Yunnan; and "Hmong" in South Sechwan, West Kweichow and South Yunnan. These many different terms also refer to the languages spoken by the people concerned whose number is estimated at 7.5 million around the world. Of this number, Hmong speakers are the most numerous with more than 3 million people in China, Southeast Asia and in the West.

Given this diversity in their name, it is possible that the Hmong in China accept the Chinese term "Miao" for convenience and through forces of history rather than any meanings of the word. The non-Chinese aboriginals of southern China consist of many different ethno-linguistic groups. After many centuries of Chinese control, some might have adopted the name "Miao" without realising how many other groups have had it used for them. Hence, the acceptance of the name by such a large number of culturally and linguistically diverse people, many of whom cannot even communicate with each other except in Chinese. It will be interesting to see whether they will continue to use the term "Miao" or to change to "Hmong" in the near future as advocated by the Hmong in Western countries.


Those of you who question where I'm getting my resources, you can read all the articles archived at:
http://members.aol.com/hmongstudiesjrnl/HSJArchives.html

The people I quoted is also in there, with their full article, if you actually want to read the whole thing. I only posted some of there comments on the meaning of the word Hmong. Also, though many Chinese people may not deem it inappropriate to call us Miao, also keep in mind that when you use this termonology, it is derogative in the Thai and Lao language, pronounciation is also very similar. I should know, I was called one once by some Lao girl and another Lao girl overheard and had to tell me what it meant. She was like, "You don't know what it means! It means you're a freaking cat! It's not a really nice reference to you at all." I guess that's all I'm going to say for now on this topic....
ddha
Hi y'all. I've never heard of Hmong until I joined AF. So I'm interested in learning more about your culture and your people.... especially celebrities biggrin.gif

From AF it seems that Hmongs and Viets don't get along... I'm a Viet. I hope it's only on AF and not outside. I'd like to get to know someone with Hmong bkg. How do I recognize someone who's Hmong? Do you look much different from Vietnamese? Do you look more East Asian or Southeast Asian?
chiuchiutrain78
Ok. What language does Hmong people speak? In this forum it listed all different Asian countries and some European countries. So I figure what's the main language.
khu91x
QUOTE (ddha @ May 20 2005, 05:50 PM)
Hi y'all.  I've never heard of Hmong until I joined AF.  So I'm interested in learning more about your culture and your people.... especially celebrities biggrin.gif

From AF it seems that Hmongs and Viets don't get along... I'm a Viet.  I hope it's only on AF and not outside.  I'd like to get to know someone with Hmong bkg.  How do I recognize someone who's Hmong?  Do you look much different from Vietnamese?  Do you look more East Asian or Southeast Asian?
*


From my experience hmong look more east asian. They look kinda Japanese / Chinese-ish. And are shorter in average height.
Li Mei
QUOTE (chiuchiutrain78 @ Jun 7 2005, 08:33 PM)
Ok. What language does Hmong people speak? In this forum it listed all different Asian countries and some European countries. So I figure what's the main language.
*

The people and the language are called "Hmong."
CYCLO
QUOTE (ddha @ May 20 2005, 03:50 PM)
Hi y'all.  I've never heard of Hmong until I joined AF.  So I'm interested in learning more about your culture and your people.... especially celebrities biggrin.gif

From AF it seems that Hmongs and Viets don't get along... I'm a Viet.  I hope it's only on AF and not outside.  I'd like to get to know someone with Hmong bkg.  How do I recognize someone who's Hmong?  Do you look much different from Vietnamese?  Do you look more East Asian or Southeast Asian?
*


some of the Hmongs Ive seen remind me of Koreans because of the face and eyes
and they are usually short and stocky with medium to light complexion, they dont really look Vietnamese. they have their own unique look.
ooh-la-la
hmong is US!!!!
kin01
wELLS hmong folks look korean and chinese and you can tell a hmong if they dont look viet or lao embarassedlaugh.gif and...if u see a group of asian guys acting like 3 yr olds then they're hmong biggthumpup.gif ...well...atleast thats what me an my bois do... embarassedlaugh.gif
CYCLO
QUOTE (kin01 @ Jul 28 2005, 06:49 AM)
wELLS hmong folks look korean and chinese and you can tell a hmong if they dont look viet or lao embarassedlaugh.gif and...if u see a group of asian guys acting like 3 yr olds then they're hmong biggthumpup.gif ...well...atleast thats what me an my bois do... embarassedlaugh.gif
*


embarassedlaugh.gif2
white_tiger
QUOTE (Chinese Pride @ May 11 2004, 10:14 PM)
ummm, what does hmong people look like? do they look like viets or malays?
*



well we dont look like chinnese(we dont look like ya'll) we dont have squinty eyes, theres not a billion of us around to spare...we are hot looking, some of our people run in the u.s goverment, i.e senaters, representatives... so i guess we're pretty smart.....we dont look like koreans, some or most even say we look better then koreans,....we sure dont talk fast like vietnamesse do....and yes, alot of people say we look better then vietnamese,....but i'm not braggin its just the truth, (hope you can handle it).....

bye the way, you act like you never seen hmong before...where do you live? mars...? lol.........haha ba bye..
white_tiger
hmong people...we are hot looking, very exotic somtimes....hmong girls are super hot, especially the ones you see on asian avenue..lol.....where are we from? i think we're from china, and being hmong we dont like staying in one spot for long time so we moved to laos, and we got bored and came to the america....i think we're trying to move to mars once its liveable there.....ba bye..if you want to know anymore, i will tell all theres to know about my hmong people because i'm hmong,...
white_tiger
QUOTE (hua @ Mar 31 2005, 12:22 PM)
QUOTE (直隸總督 @ Jun 8 2004, 06:10 PM)
Let me ask a quick question, where did you get all these Miao people. In the school I attend and where I live, there's hardly any Miao. But when I come on this forum, it seems that many of you have " a lot of " Miao in your areas. Is it because the government of US concentrates all Miaos in certain regions?
*


No. But like any other ethnic minority, they tend to gravitate towards each other. Just think of all the China Towns. Anyways, if u really want to know where we're concentrated in the US, most of the Hmong's=Miao's are concentrated in the Central Valley of California (Sacramento, Merced, San Diego, Fresno, Stockton, Visalia, Santa Anna, etc.), Minnesota (St. Paul, & Minniapolis [Twin Cities]), Wisconsin (Green Bay, Appleton, Wausau, Stevens Point, Madison, etc.), North Carolina (Hickory, Charlotte, etc...). I may have left a couple out, but these are the major states and cities that they concentrate in. California having the most, then Minnesota, ofcourse with the concensus not yet updated, Minnesotta may have more today, with all the moving around happening.



Anyways, to those who still can't seem to agree on the term Hmong versus Miao, Meo termonology. And it's so true what some of you have already stated, you can't define a group of people. It's like trying to define Americans, Japanese, Native Americans, Blacks, etc. On the termonology itself, people may define it differently because of what it means to them personally. Below, I've bolded some of the comments I deemed important. So if you don't want to read the whole thing, just read what's bolded.


Quoted from Mai Na M. Lee
The Thousand-Year Myth: Construction and Characterization of Hmong

"Hmong," the word which an obscure people use to identify themselves, was not known to the world until two decades ago. Politically marginalized, it took the mountains upon which the Hmong inhabited to echo their name across the hemispheres........
Let us begin with the name "Hmong" itself. Virtually all authors who have written about the Hmong since the 1970's acknowledged the Hmong's preference to be known as "Hmong." In addition, almost everyone makes reference to the fact that the names "Miao" and "Meo," used by outsiders to identify the Hmong people, have pejorative connotations. Yet most of these authors, even those of respectable scholarly background, have refused to establish the trend of labeling the Hmong by their preferred name, citing academic consistency and established tradition as excuses. Today everyone and anyone who writes about Hmong is pulled into the debate of defining Hmong. Being here to discuss issues on Hmong I am also compelled to touch upon the name "Hmong."

There are two basic opposing views concerning the word "Hmong" in its written and spoken forms. Those who continue to use outsider's terms to identify the Hmong insist that the names "Miao" and "Meo" have no derogative connotations. On the other hand, Yang Dao, prominent as the first Laotian Hmong to hold a doctorate degree, argues that the word means "barbarian." Introduced into Indochina in the late nineteenth century, the word "Miao" degenerated to "Meo," a derogatory term. Swedish researcher Joakim Enwall disagreed with Yang, arguing that there is no reference to the fact that "Miao" meant barbarian although the people who used it to label the Hmong may have perceived the Hmong as barbarians. Finally, Enwall shoots down the arguments of Yang and other's who insist on the name Hmong by stripping the political context embedded in the debate of Hmong. Enwall raises questions regarding academic pragmatism versus a people's right to insist upon an orally correct name which may be impossible for others to pronounce. He also points to the fact that Chinese characters cannot accommodate the aspirated "m" in the word "Hmong." As to the meaning of the word "Miao," Enwall concludes: "To my Miao friends, I just want to say that the basic meaning of the word 'miao' in Chinese is 'young plant', which in an agrarian culture is certainly a more positive concept than that of a 'swede' in the western world."

The debate over whether the word "Miao" has negative connotations has been elaborated upon by many. Most writers have taken "Miao" to mean "aboriginal" with the added connotation of "uncivilized." However, others argue that the ancient form of the character "Miao," in fact, represented a cat's head and meant "cat." The Chinese probably used this word to describe the Hmong due to the Hmong's vocalized language which seemed to resemble the meowing of a cat. William Geddes found it difficult to believe that the Chinese thought there was similarity between the feline utterance and Hmong speech which resembles Chinese. However, he speculated upon the relevance of this argument, citing Chinese references which speak of the Hmong as having tails and Hmong belief in their own ability to transform into tigers after death.



Quoted from Gary Yia Lee (an anthropologists)
Cultural Identity In Post-Modern Society: Reflections on What is a Hmong?

The meanings of the terms "Hmong" and "Miao"

The term "Hmong" has come to be used internationally during the last twenty years, largely through the advocacy of the Hmong in Laos and through the pioneering work of Dr. Yang Dao (6), who first suggested that the word "Hmong" means "free people". Before this period, the international literature, following Chinese usage, usually refers to the Hmong as "Miao" or "Meo". Regardless of the name they use for themselves, most Hmong are hesitant about its meaning as they simply do not know.

Leaders of a messianic movement based in the former refugee camps in Thailand believe that the term "Peb Hmoob" (Us Hmoob) derives from the word "Peb Hmoov", meaning "the Tree Fortunes". The word "peb" can mean either "us" or "three". Hmong messianic legend has it that the Hmong were once delivered from the Chinese by a set of three brothers called "Peb Hmoov" (the Three Fortunes). Previous to this, the Hmong are said to call themselves "Keeb" (Quing or Ch'ing) or "originators". Despite the linguistic similarity between "Peb Hmoob" (the way the Hmong often refer to themselves) and "Peb Hmoov", this explanation seems to have confused Hmong origin with Vietnamese history. The Vietnamese are known as the Quing people, and they were at one time delivered from Chinese domination by the Le sisters, similar to the story of the three Hmong brothers. To complicate matters further, the Hmong in Laos and Thailand have been known as "Meo", a derivative of the Chinese word "Miao". With a slight change in accent, the word "Meo" in Lao and Thai can be pronounced to mean "cat". It is most offensive for many Asians to be compared to an animal, a lower form of beings in their views. For this reason, the Hmong have taken exception to being known as "Meo". The Lao government has complied by referring to them as "Lao Sung" or "Lao of the mountain tops", a term which also includes the I-Mien or Yao people. Thai authorities have taken no official line on the issue. Outsiders in Laos and Thailand may refer to the Hmong as "Hmong" when political correctness calls for it, otherwise the Hmong continue to be called "Meo".

According to Enwall , the term "Miao" was used in pre-Quin China to refer to non-Chinese people of Southern China, often in combination such as "Miao Min" (the Miao people), "Yu Miao" (the Miao) and "San Miao" (the three groups of Miao). Later, during the Tang and Sung dynasties, the term "Nan Man" (Southern Barbarians) was used, and it was not until 862 A.D. that the word "Miao" appeared again in Fan Chuo's book _Manshu on the Man Tribes_. During the Ming and Quing dynasties, both the terms "Man" and "Miao" were used. The Ming dynasty (1368-1644 A.D.) finally saw the term used for the Hmong in today's China where they are now referred to as "Miao-Tseu".

The Hmong in China are today reported to readily accept being called "Miao". Enwall (1992: 2) also contends that the Hmong in China have voiced no concern about the term, and it is impossible to write "Hmong" in Chinese characters (with a nasal 'h'). Regardless of this, the reference to the Hmong as "Miao-tseu" carries shades of ambiguity since it can be defined as either "rice sprouts" or "sons of the soil". The Chinese Hmong may have raised no objection because they are not aware of the ambiguous meanings of the term, or have not been ridiculed by the use of such a name unlike their brothers and sisters in Thailand or Laos.

Among themselves, the Hmong outside China prefer to be called "Hmong" (in the White Hmong dialect) or "Mong" (in Blue Hmong or Moob Lees). Those in China use such terms to designate themselves as "Ghao Xong" in Western Hunan; "Hmub", "Gha Ne" or "Hme" for a group speaking the same dialect in Southeastern Kweichow; "A Hmao" in Northwest Kweichow and Northeast Yunnan; and "Hmong" in South Sechwan, West Kweichow and South Yunnan. These many different terms also refer to the languages spoken by the people concerned whose number is estimated at 7.5 million around the world. Of this number, Hmong speakers are the most numerous with more than 3 million people in China, Southeast Asia and in the West.

Given this diversity in their name, it is possible that the Hmong in China accept the Chinese term "Miao" for convenience and through forces of history rather than any meanings of the word. The non-Chinese aboriginals of southern China consist of many different ethno-linguistic groups. After many centuries of Chinese control, some might have adopted the name "Miao" without realising how many other groups have had it used for them. Hence, the acceptance of the name by such a large number of culturally and linguistically diverse people, many of whom cannot even communicate with each other except in Chinese. It will be interesting to see whether they will continue to use the term "Miao" or to change to "Hmong" in the near future as advocated by the Hmong in Western countries.


Those of you who question where I'm getting my resources, you can read all the articles archived at:
http://members.aol.com/hmongstudiesjrnl/HSJArchives.html

The people I quoted is also in there, with their full article, if you actually want to read the whole thing. I only posted some of there comments on the meaning of the word Hmong. Also, though many Chinese people may not deem it inappropriate to call us Miao, also keep in mind that when you use this termonology, it is derogative in the Thai and Lao language, pronounciation is also very similar. I should know, I was called one once by some Lao girl and another Lao girl overheard and had to tell me what it meant. She was like, "You don't know what it means! It means you're a freaking cat! It's not a really nice reference to you at all." I guess that's all I'm going to say for now on this topic....
*




holy shtttt, alot of interesting shttt you wrote here.....bye
white_tiger
i dont believe theres alot of people dont know that me,(hmong) neverd existed...i'm totally surprized by that...its like those peolple have been on venus or somthin..lol.....go watch the news, we hmong people been killing white people, we been killing tibetin kids, we been killing each others too, how can you not know of us,....we dont need a country of our own, look at ya'll viet namese and koreans and etc..ya'll have countries and ya'll dont even live in it...and other asians who have countries take it for granted that you'll always have you own little country, but just wait till the day you dont have it no more, then you will understand how if feels to be hmong. but regardless, we hmong dont need a country,...we neverd did, and look at us...we still alive,...one day we will take over the sleeping elephant...lol, or never...just part of my imagination. haha..ba bye
JAdeLi
HMOOBS LOOK LIKE CHINESE, KOREAN, Japanese, some are even albino "(blond hair and blue eyes) and look like white kids but you can tell their hmoob cause they speak it and their eyes are chinesey. hahaha-serious!!!
JAdeLi
in other words, HMOOB LOOK HMOOB!!
lilasiankid
QUOTE (JAdeLi @ Aug 4 2005, 12:10 PM)
HMOOBS LOOK LIKE CHINESE, KOREAN, Japanese, some are even albino "(blond hair and blue eyes) and look like white kids but you can tell their hmoob cause they speak it and their eyes are chinesey. hahaha-serious!!!
*


SHHHHH....Dang, ya'll might watch out for the double posting and quadruple posting.....not to sound like a mod embarassedlaugh.gif Just don't want yall to get warned....

Anyways....yeah I seen one "albino" Hmong dude once...he was so pale....and blue eyes....but dude was Hmong...
PandaBear
do hmong people speak smillar to madarian
aZnRiCeChiQ
delete
Bonedawg
owned
moryHX
"Hmong is I and I is Hmong"...how much more can one define Hmong peeps? (excluding HIS-story) Ou...you'll know when someone is Hmong when you go into their kitchen and you find big knives...yep yep yep...and you'll know when someone's Hmong when you hear...Niiiiiiiiiiii Yaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii! ou...one more...and when you find a very big pot somewhere in the house...say...the garage or so...that could fit you and someone else in there...then that should lead you to know that someone's Hmong embarassedlaugh.gif2 but yah...to define the Hmong...History have always been used to try to define the Hmong peoples...WE're undefined because...i guess we must be really alien...OU Hmong can't be define...also the Mein people too...i think...but...hmm...they's more closer to Chinese than we are...mann...wow...seems like Meins and Hmongs are so lost to the world...like we don't exist or somethin...wow...amazing...we're invisible! but yah...so..."Hmong is I and I is Hmong": biggrin.gif KOOL DEAL? AWESOME!
MrSzeto
can u show me some pics of the caucasian looking hmongs? icon_wink.gif
mugi-kun
i never knew...hmongs...cool biggrin.gif
hua
QUOTE (white_tiger @ Jul 29 2005, 08:45 AM)
QUOTE (hua @ Mar 31 2005, 12:22 PM)
QUOTE (直隸總督 @ Jun 8 2004, 06:10 PM)
Let me ask a quick question, where did you get all these Miao people. In the school I attend and where I live, there's hardly any Miao. But when I come on this forum, it seems that many of you have " a lot of " Miao in your areas. Is it because the government of US concentrates all Miaos in certain regions?
*


No. But like any other ethnic minority, they tend to gravitate towards each other. Just think of all the China Towns. Anyways, if u really want to know where we're concentrated in the US, most of the Hmong's=Miao's are concentrated in the Central Valley of California (Sacramento, Merced, San Diego, Fresno, Stockton, Visalia, Santa Anna, etc.), Minnesota (St. Paul, & Minniapolis [Twin Cities]), Wisconsin (Green Bay, Appleton, Wausau, Stevens Point, Madison, etc.), North Carolina (Hickory, Charlotte, etc...). I may have left a couple out, but these are the major states and cities that they concentrate in. California having the most, then Minnesota, ofcourse with the concensus not yet updated, Minnesotta may have more today, with all the moving around happening.



Anyways, to those who still can't seem to agree on the term Hmong versus Miao, Meo termonology. And it's so true what some of you have already stated, you can't define a group of people. It's like trying to define Americans, Japanese, Native Americans, Blacks, etc. On the termonology itself, people may define it differently because of what it means to them personally. Below, I've bolded some of the comments I deemed important. So if you don't want to read the whole thing, just read what's bolded.


Quoted from Mai Na M. Lee
The Thousand-Year Myth: Construction and Characterization of Hmong

"Hmong," the word which an obscure people use to identify themselves, was not known to the world until two decades ago. Politically marginalized, it took the mountains upon which the Hmong inhabited to echo their name across the hemispheres........
Let us begin with the name "Hmong" itself. Virtually all authors who have written about the Hmong since the 1970's acknowledged the Hmong's preference to be known as "Hmong." In addition, almost everyone makes reference to the fact that the names "Miao" and "Meo," used by outsiders to identify the Hmong people, have pejorative connotations. Yet most of these authors, even those of respectable scholarly background, have refused to establish the trend of labeling the Hmong by their preferred name, citing academic consistency and established tradition as excuses. Today everyone and anyone who writes about Hmong is pulled into the debate of defining Hmong. Being here to discuss issues on Hmong I am also compelled to touch upon the name "Hmong."

There are two basic opposing views concerning the word "Hmong" in its written and spoken forms. Those who continue to use outsider's terms to identify the Hmong insist that the names "Miao" and "Meo" have no derogative connotations. On the other hand, Yang Dao, prominent as the first Laotian Hmong to hold a doctorate degree, argues that the word means "barbarian." Introduced into Indochina in the late nineteenth century, the word "Miao" degenerated to "Meo," a derogatory term. Swedish researcher Joakim Enwall disagreed with Yang, arguing that there is no reference to the fact that "Miao" meant barbarian although the people who used it to label the Hmong may have perceived the Hmong as barbarians. Finally, Enwall shoots down the arguments of Yang and other's who insist on the name Hmong by stripping the political context embedded in the debate of Hmong. Enwall raises questions regarding academic pragmatism versus a people's right to insist upon an orally correct name which may be impossible for others to pronounce. He also points to the fact that Chinese characters cannot accommodate the aspirated "m" in the word "Hmong." As to the meaning of the word "Miao," Enwall concludes: "To my Miao friends, I just want to say that the basic meaning of the word 'miao' in Chinese is 'young plant', which in an agrarian culture is certainly a more positive concept than that of a 'swede' in the western world."

The debate over whether the word "Miao" has negative connotations has been elaborated upon by many. Most writers have taken "Miao" to mean "aboriginal" with the added connotation of "uncivilized." However, others argue that the ancient form of the character "Miao," in fact, represented a cat's head and meant "cat." The Chinese probably used this word to describe the Hmong due to the Hmong's vocalized language which seemed to resemble the meowing of a cat. William Geddes found it difficult to believe that the Chinese thought there was similarity between the feline utterance and Hmong speech which resembles Chinese. However, he speculated upon the relevance of this argument, citing Chinese references which speak of the Hmong as having tails and Hmong belief in their own ability to transform into tigers after death.



Quoted from Gary Yia Lee (an anthropologists)
Cultural Identity In Post-Modern Society: Reflections on What is a Hmong?

The meanings of the terms "Hmong" and "Miao"

The term "Hmong" has come to be used internationally during the last twenty years, largely through the advocacy of the Hmong in Laos and through the pioneering work of Dr. Yang Dao (6), who first suggested that the word "Hmong" means "free people". Before this period, the international literature, following Chinese usage, usually refers to the Hmong as "Miao" or "Meo". Regardless of the name they use for themselves, most Hmong are hesitant about its meaning as they simply do not know.

Leaders of a messianic movement based in the former refugee camps in Thailand believe that the term "Peb Hmoob" (Us Hmoob) derives from the word "Peb Hmoov", meaning "the Tree Fortunes". The word "peb" can mean either "us" or "three". Hmong messianic legend has it that the Hmong were once delivered from the Chinese by a set of three brothers called "Peb Hmoov" (the Three Fortunes). Previous to this, the Hmong are said to call themselves "Keeb" (Quing or Ch'ing) or "originators". Despite the linguistic similarity between "Peb Hmoob" (the way the Hmong often refer to themselves) and "Peb Hmoov", this explanation seems to have confused Hmong origin with Vietnamese history. The Vietnamese are known as the Quing people, and they were at one time delivered from Chinese domination by the Le sisters, similar to the story of the three Hmong brothers. To complicate matters further, the Hmong in Laos and Thailand have been known as "Meo", a derivative of the Chinese word "Miao". With a slight change in accent, the word "Meo" in Lao and Thai can be pronounced to mean "cat". It is most offensive for many Asians to be compared to an animal, a lower form of beings in their views. For this reason, the Hmong have taken exception to being known as "Meo". The Lao government has complied by referring to them as "Lao Sung" or "Lao of the mountain tops", a term which also includes the I-Mien or Yao people. Thai authorities have taken no official line on the issue. Outsiders in Laos and Thailand may refer to the Hmong as "Hmong" when political correctness calls for it, otherwise the Hmong continue to be called "Meo".

According to Enwall , the term "Miao" was used in pre-Quin China to refer to non-Chinese people of Southern China, often in combination such as "Miao Min" (the Miao people), "Yu Miao" (the Miao) and "San Miao" (the three groups of Miao). Later, during the Tang and Sung dynasties, the term "Nan Man" (Southern Barbarians) was used, and it was not until 862 A.D. that the word "Miao" appeared again in Fan Chuo's book _Manshu on the Man Tribes_. During the Ming and Quing dynasties, both the terms "Man" and "Miao" were used. The Ming dynasty (1368-1644 A.D.) finally saw the term used for the Hmong in today's China where they are now referred to as "Miao-Tseu".

The Hmong in China are today reported to readily accept being called "Miao". Enwall (1992: 2) also contends that the Hmong in China have voiced no concern about the term, and it is impossible to write "Hmong" in Chinese characters (with a nasal 'h'). Regardless of this, the reference to the Hmong as "Miao-tseu" carries shades of ambiguity since it can be defined as either "rice sprouts" or "sons of the soil". The Chinese Hmong may have raised no objection because they are not aware of the ambiguous meanings of the term, or have not been ridiculed by the use of such a name unlike their brothers and sisters in Thailand or Laos.

Among themselves, the Hmong outside China prefer to be called "Hmong" (in the White Hmong dialect) or "Mong" (in Blue Hmong or Moob Lees). Those in China use such terms to designate themselves as "Ghao Xong" in Western Hunan; "Hmub", "Gha Ne" or "Hme" for a group speaking the same dialect in Southeastern Kweichow; "A Hmao" in Northwest Kweichow and Northeast Yunnan; and "Hmong" in South Sechwan, West Kweichow and South Yunnan. These many different terms also refer to the languages spoken by the people concerned whose number is estimated at 7.5 million around the world. Of this number, Hmong speakers are the most numerous with more than 3 million people in China, Southeast Asia and in the West.

Given this diversity in their name, it is possible that the Hmong in China accept the Chinese term "Miao" for convenience and through forces of history rather than any meanings of the word. The non-Chinese aboriginals of southern China consist of many different ethno-linguistic groups. After many centuries of Chinese control, some might have adopted the name "Miao" without realising how many other groups have had it used for them. Hence, the acceptance of the name by such a large number of culturally and linguistically diverse people, many of whom cannot even communicate with each other except in Chinese. It will be interesting to see whether they will continue to use the term "Miao" or to change to "Hmong" in the near future as advocated by the Hmong in Western countries.


Those of you who question where I'm getting my resources, you can read all the articles archived at:
http://members.aol.com/hmongstudiesjrnl/HSJArchives.html

The people I quoted is also in there, with their full article, if you actually want to read the whole thing. I only posted some of there comments on the meaning of the word Hmong. Also, though many Chinese people may not deem it inappropriate to call us Miao, also keep in mind that when you use this termonology, it is derogative in the Thai and Lao language, pronounciation is also very similar. I should know, I was called one once by some Lao girl and another Lao girl overheard and had to tell me what it meant. She was like, "You don't know what it means! It means you're a freaking cat! It's not a really nice reference to you at all." I guess that's all I'm going to say for now on this topic....
*




holy shtttt, alot of interesting shttt you wrote here.....bye
*



Thanx!!! It's just this topic seems to always, always pop up no matter what...and no matter how many times it's discussed, it comes up again and again....you get the drift of my meaning...
white_tiger
QUOTE (mugi-kun @ Sep 2 2005, 08:43 PM)
i never knew...hmongs...cool biggrin.gif
*
OMFG..you never knew...? where were you..mars? lol...

oh and quit kissing our asses, we dont need it it, dont say shtt to make us feel good, we feel good without it. cool30.gif
mIcKy MoUsE
we have a lot of Hmong people here in my region

cool30.gif
hmong_til_i_die
Hmong is ME........and no one els hahaha j/k. Hmong is just a name to represent a group of human(asian) ^_^ beerchug.gif
LOVEWHIZ
man! so is there a counrty atually call hmong? cause i never heard of people called hmong until today. no offence to any hmong out there.
hmong_til_i_die
well we from china for sure but no country ha embarassedlaugh.gif ha due to all the hating and $hit lolz embarassedlaugh.gif
LynRUPY
There's no country for Hmong people. We "originated" from China. Laos would be the closest thing to our country. Consider our ancestors and such inhabited the northern part of Laos and mountain sides.
mugi-kun
QUOTE (white_tiger @ Sep 9 2005, 07:29 AM)
QUOTE (mugi-kun @ Sep 2 2005, 08:43 PM)
i never knew...hmongs...cool biggrin.gif
*
OMFG..you never knew...? where were you..mars? lol...

oh and quit kissing our asses, we dont need it it, dont say shtt to make us feel good, we feel good without it. cool30.gif
*


i said cool, cuz im learning new things Talktohand.gif, but yeah, i've never heard hmong until i came to AF embarassedlaugh.gif pls dont be offended embarassedlaugh.gif
caterina_xc
some how i find this thread offended....but hmong is just hmong...a name to describe us..like chinese japanses viet and so one...and hmong don't have their own country that's why hmong is not well known...

oh yeah...i'm hmong too! icon_redface.gif
LOVEWHIZ
hmong are chinese! whether you like or not. Talktohand.gif ''miao'' people is another name for hmong
PhoShizzle
QUOTE (LOVEWHIZ @ Nov 4 2005, 08:27 PM)
hmong are chinese! whether you like or not. Talktohand.gif ''miao'' people is another name for hmong
*


hmong are from the mountains/jungle of laos,vietnam,china, or thailand right?
caterina_xc
^

well duh! i kind of consider myself chinese a little bit since my last name is chinese.. Talktohand.gif cuz there isn't alot of hmong with my last name...
PhoShizzle
that doesnt mean your chinese embarassedlaugh.gif
LOVEWHIZ
no hmong people were chinese origin, but they moved to different regions due to war...
PhoShizzle
yea i know that...cate is trin to be speical from the rest embarassedlaugh.gif
LynRUPY
^ The Chinese used us as slaves o_O
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