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londoh

I have put more than 100 photo's on line of VOC forts and a few other buildings,
made during a trip to Ambon and the islands around.

Pictures of:

Fort Victoria -in Ambon city
Fort Duurstede on Saparua
Fort Nieuw Hoorn and Nieuw Zeelandia on Haruku
Fort Beverwijk and the Ebenhazer church on Nusa Laut
Fort Amsterdam and the Wapauwe mesjid in Hila
Blokhuis Van der Capellen in NegriLima (from 1817)
Fort Kapahaha, a natural Hitunese fort in Morela
Fort Defensie in Kayeli, Buru.


Hope you will enjoy these.

Here you are.....

Londoh

purnomor
Nice pictures! Kudos for your efforts, opa kiss.gif
tengkuafif
Dear Londoh,

Do you think it is still possible for the Dutch to come and colonise Indonesia again?
Do you think that's going to happen?
purnomor
QUOTE(tengkuafif @ May 3 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]1814565[/snapback]

Dear Londoh,

Do you think it is still possible for the Dutch to come and colonise Indonesia again?
Do you think that's going to happen?


This is very stupid question. Are you stupid, afif?

The British have much better possibility in recolonise Malaysia and re-enslave Malays again, than the Dutch to return to Indonesia, where they have been expelled by Indonesia 60 years ago.
tengkuafif
QUOTE(purnomor @ May 3 2006, 11:47 PM) [snapback]1814581[/snapback]

This is very stupid question. Are you stupid, afif?

The British have much better possibility in recolonise Malaysia and re-enslave Malays again, than the Dutch to return to Indonesia, where they have been expelled by Indonesia 60 years ago.



I've already expected reaction like this from you. biggrin.gif

Yup,yup.We are all stupid, and purnomor is all clever. Hurrah!
londoh
QUOTE(tengkuafif @ May 3 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]1814565[/snapback]

Dear Londoh,

Do you think it is still possible for the Dutch to come and colonise Indonesia again?
Do you think that's going to happen?


Hi Tengkuafif,

In my opinion the era of colonies in the old sense of the word is behind us, although there are still colonies in this world. A country like France calls the colonies they still posses "provences outremer" overseas provinces. Nowadays western countries practize "economic colonization" A country like Indonesia cannot live without export, they produce nearly nothing else in this country than commodities, which have a very low price on the world market. This price is kept low by the Western countries, and Indonesia doesn't not have a bargaining position at all. Although the RI is one of the biggest countries in the world with one of the biggest populations too, it is not important at all in this world, heavy in debt and the products they export are of little importance on the worldmarket as often of low quality, they sell because of a low price. The main importance for RI are commodities.

About Miss Pur, I consider her as funny, a bit frustrated as she wants to be the Mod here, she acts like her. This is quite common with persons like this. Without doubt she is very clever and like to show she knows a lot, mostly what she found on internet trough Google. (goochelaar biggrin.gif ) but she has no practical experience in life at all . That is why she expresses herself so funny. Just don't mind, laugh about it, it is only a desperate cry for the attention she lacks in daily life.

Salam dari Solo
purnomor
QUOTE(londoh @ May 3 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]1816247[/snapback]

Hi Tengkuafif,

In my opinion the era of colonies in the old sense of the word is behind us, although there are still colonies in this world. A country like France calls the colonies they still posses "provences outremer" overseas provinces. Nowadays western countries practize "economic colonization" A country like Indonesia cannot live without export, they produce nearly nothing else in this country than commodities, which have a very low price on the world market. This price is kept low by the Western countries, and Indonesia doesn't not have a bargaining position at all. Although the RI is one of the biggest countries in the world with one of the biggest populations too, it is not important at all in this world, heavy in debt and the products they export are of little importance on the worldmarket as often of low quality, they sell because of a low price. The main importance for RI are commodities.


Actually Indonesian growth mainly came from domestic consumption while our exports are mostly manufactured products. The cheaper your exports become, the higher your exports will be. European and American export-based manufacturing industry have basically collapsed due to rise of China as source of cheapest exports.

I guess you shouldn't have dropped out from school at 12 years of age. You still indeed have much to learn about the ways of the world, opa.
londoh
QUOTE(purnomor @ May 4 2006, 12:48 AM) [snapback]1816971[/snapback]

Actually Indonesian growth mainly came from domestic consumption while our exports are mostly manufactured products. The cheaper your exports become, the higher your exports will be. European and American export-based manufacturing industry have basically collapsed due to rise of China as source of cheapest exports.

I guess you shouldn't have dropped out from school at 12 years of age. You still indeed have much to learn about the ways of the world, opa.


I don't look at growth Miss Pee, just around me and see a mess in your country. For Indonesia cheap Chinese product are a greater danger than for Europe. Cost of labour in RI is too expensive due to low productivity, also the import of all kind of consumergoods do no good to this country. They cannot even produce a bicycle here biggrin.gif
purnomor
QUOTE(londoh @ May 4 2006, 12:59 AM) [snapback]1817007[/snapback]

I don't look at growth Miss Pee, just around me and see a mess in your country. For Indonesia cheap Chinese product are a greater danger than for Europe. Cost of labour in RI is too expensive due to low productivity, also the import of all kind of consumergoods do no good to this country. They cannot even produce a bicycle here biggrin.gif


LOL, our exports far exceeded our imports by $21 billion in 2005. In fact, there were never a time in history when our imports exceeded our exports. And Indonesia actually produces millions of bicycles every year:

LIST OF INDONESIAN BICYCLE MANUFACTURERS

Again, I guess you shouldn't have dropped-out of school while still a kid. With such lack of education, no wonder your business went bankrupt so quickly.
Bohemian
Whatever the debates are about..

biggthumpup.gif Good job, Londoh! I just hope that these proofs of history wouldn't fade away soon.. but I wonder if they'd ever get the proper treatment, though.. icon_sad.gif
londoh
QUOTE(Bohemian @ May 4 2006, 07:31 AM) [snapback]1817666[/snapback]

Whatever the debates are about..

biggthumpup.gif Good job, Londoh! I just hope that these proofs of history wouldn't fade away soon.. but I wonder if they'd ever get the proper treatment, though.. icon_sad.gif


Hi Bohemian,

Terima kasih for your compliments. I started this project back in 2001, with pics of benteng Vatenburg in Solo and shortly after pics of Pulau Onrust and a few other islands in the Bay of Jakarta. A trip to Onrust has became quite popular since then. Also after my pics of "Old Batavia" I see more and more people looking at the beauty in Jakarta, start to make pictures. But these forts ? I don't know, they are so far away, expensive to reach, expensive to restore. Are Indonesians realy interested in old colonial buildings ? If people want to restore the money should come from Holland. But what to do with the buildings afterwards, if they are empty they will fall down again. You can see this on the pictures of Fort Amsterdam at Hila, which has been restored in 1991. But if you look at it now, terrible. Maybe also used very cheap materials, as the new wood inside is rotting

By the way do you know this Czech site ? It looks very nice but I cannot understand a single word. But the pics on this site are nice.

http://www.tenggara.net/view.php?cisloclanku=2006041801

rgds, londoh



Bohemian
QUOTE(londoh @ May 5 2006, 03:43 AM) [snapback]1819686[/snapback]

Hi Bohemian,

Terima kasih for your compliments. I started this project back in 2001, with pics of benteng Vatenburg in Solo and shortly after pics of Pulau Onrust and a few other islands in the Bay of Jakarta. A trip to Onrust has became quite popular since then. Also after my pics of "Old Batavia" I see more and more people looking at the beauty in Jakarta, start to make pictures. But these forts ? I don't know, they are so far away, expensive to reach, expensive to restore. Are Indonesians realy interested in old colonial buildings ? If people want to restore the money should come from Holland. But what to do with the buildings afterwards, if they are empty they will fall down again. You can see this on the pictures of Fort Amsterdam at Hila, which has been restored in 1991. But if you look at it now, terrible. Maybe also used very cheap materials, as the new wood inside is rotting

By the way do you know this Czech site ? It looks very nice but I cannot understand a single word. But the pics on this site are nice.

http://www.tenggara.net/view.php?cisloclanku=2006041801

rgds, londoh


Hi, of course I know the site. They mostly write about Indonesia, although they are an "Association for South East Asia".. icon_smile.gif Never mind. These people mostly studied Indonesian studies in the Czech Republic and have been for many times in Indonesia. If I'm not wrong, I even read something from you on the site.

About the forts, well, I think most of the Indonesians haven't realised how valuable these pieces of history are and what these sites can do for money. And that's what pisses me off. If they just know what Europe has put the best efforts to maintain their monuments.. Yes, it's expensive to restore them and takes time to let the tourists pour in, but loosing these monuments is loosing our own history, no matter if it's colonial or pribumi. I think the Philippines does a much better job than us.

I hope I'd visit these places one day.
londoh
When I found that Czech site I have put a link to my VOC buildingspage there. The next day I was contacted by someone from there who studied bahasa Indonesia in Solo.

Indeed,the Indonesians don't realize what valuable assets they have with those VOC buildings. Although on Ternate they were restoring these forts, in a way that did not cost that much money, but OK, they were doing something. But the last batch I photographed in Ambon and surrounding are mostly in a terrible state. They could do something very valuable with these. I am sure that sponsors for this kind of projects could be found with no great problems. If one sees the center of Malacca or Galle on Sri Lanka, lots of tourists going there. On Ambon I haven't seen a single tourist for more than 2 weeks.Right in the center of Solo there is Benteng Vastenburg, it's immense, but lays rotting there. Most of the buildings have been broken down, only 3 are stil standing there, around the gate. But all the woodwork has been stolen. The walls are still in a good condition. It is in hands of a private person, as the land is very valuable, right in the center of Solo. The could make a tourist market there, small restaurants, boutiques. But no, it just lays there waiting for dynamite and bulldozers to finish it and make way for a shopping mall or so. I have seen so many of these buildings in the meantime that I don't get sad anymore. I just want to registrate how they are now. Maybe in 25 years I have made something valuable, but for sure I am sleeping forever down a pohon kemboja then. But maybe, there are a few people who are talking abt. a book with me. This summer I go to Amsterdam to do some survey on these buildings.
tangawizi

Hmmm....Londoh, you make me think of an idea I saw in Spain. Why don't they turn the VOC forts and buildings into government run hotels? Like in Spain, the government turned a whole collection of ancient castles and forts into traditional but stylish hotels known as Paradores, where tourists not only take advantage of the atmosphere of staying in an old castle but also soak up the history of Spain. Check out their website here.
purnomor
QUOTE(londoh @ May 5 2006, 06:33 AM) [snapback]1821336[/snapback]

When I found that Czech site I have put a link to my VOC buildingspage there. The next day I was contacted by someone from there who studied bahasa Indonesia in Solo.

Indeed,the Indonesians don't realize what valuable assets they have with those VOC buildings. Although on Ternate they were restoring these forts, in a way that did not cost that much money, but OK, they were doing something. But the last batch I photographed in Ambon and surrounding are mostly in a terrible state. They could do something very valuable with these. I am sure that sponsors for this kind of projects could be found with no great problems. If one sees the center of Malacca or Galle on Sri Lanka, lots of tourists going there. On Ambon I haven't seen a single tourist for more than 2 weeks.Right in the center of Solo there is Benteng Vastenburg, it's immense, but lays rotting there. Most of the buildings have been broken down, only 3 are stil standing there, around the gate. But all the woodwork has been stolen. The walls are still in a good condition. It is in hands of a private person, as the land is very valuable, right in the center of Solo. The could make a tourist market there, small restaurants, boutiques. But no, it just lays there waiting for dynamite and bulldozers to finish it and make way for a shopping mall or so. I have seen so many of these buildings in the meantime that I don't get sad anymore. I just want to registrate how they are now. Maybe in 25 years I have made something valuable, but for sure I am sleeping forever down a pohon kemboja then. But maybe, there are a few people who are talking abt. a book with me. This summer I go to Amsterdam to do some survey on these buildings.


I think the lack of tourists in Ambon is because the island just went through a period of extremely bloody religious conflict. Even people from other parts of Indonesia would think 100 times before visiting Ambon. If these forts were to be maintained, the best way is to tell the military to use them. I mean, who else have practical use for forts located in remote areas?

It seems the best-preserved fort in your collection is the Nieuw-Victoria Fort in Ambon City, which is because the fort is still used by Indonesian military. And that island Ambon definately could use more military outposts.

Jakarta also had its collection of VOC fortresses, the biggest of which was Batavia Castle located in northern end of what is now Jakarta Kota between 1632-1809.

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View of the castle from south

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Interior of the castle, showing garrison church

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View of the castle from Jakarta Bay (north)

So sad, the beautiful Batavia Castle was demolished along with almost all other beautiful VOC forts around Jakarta (Fort Antjol, Fort Rijswijk, Fort Tangerang, Fort Noordwijk) in 1809. Who did this destruction? None other but the Dutch governor-general Herman Willem Daendels himself because he needed the rubble as building material for his new capital in Weltevreden (today's Lapangan Banteng). Not only that, Daendels destroyed the beautiful neo-Baroque Nieuw Hollandse Kerk located to the left of today's Museum Sejarah Jakarta. icon_sad.gif

Daendels only left one fort left standing in Jakarta, the fort in Meester Cornelis (now Bukit Duri, Jatinegara). But that fortress was destroyed during the battle between the Dutch and British troops invading Java in 1811.


Not to mention, the beautiful Dutch mini-Versailles palace in Weltevreden (Lapangan Banteng) built by VOC governor-general Jacob Mossel in 1761 was demolished by the Dutch themselves in 1820.

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Weltevreden Palace, demolished by the Dutch in 1820


It is clear the Dutch colonialists in Indonesia have little care about their own heritage. It is the Dutch themselves who are responsible for the destruction of VOC heritage in Indonesia since they carelessly demolished most of it long before Indonesia gained independence. icon_sad.gif




testcubaanujian
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