HA!..i have a funny story to share....this happened way back when i was in middle school...
but anyhow....

my aunt and uncle ua neeb for my cousin because he was drastically losing weight or something like that..i can't really remember...but anyhow, i just know he was really sick..

it was before kuv tus aunt lawd rau rooj mov after tus txiv neeb nqis rooj neeb...when these two missionaries (mis kas dawb) came up to my uncles and started a conversation with them...talking in hmoob!. mann..that was the first time i ever heard mi kas dawb hais lus hmoob....i couldn't really understand them tho...anyhow....the missionaries were telling my uncles about god and how great god is...blah blah blah...there were at least 8 of my uncles standing in a circle....one of my uncles nodded and nodded...pretty soon..tshuav nws ib leeg mloog ob niag missionaries lawm xwb and he was the only one holding a beer. he drank one can after another....ahaha..the alcohol that my uncle consumed was probably kicking in because his face was a total mess. im pretty sure he wasn't aware of what he was listening to... that's why he was able to stand there throughout the whole conversations about god...ahah...anyhow!

the missionaries stayed for almost an hour or so. my aunt gave 'em some eggrolls, boiled pork with chinese mustard green, laj, RICE , naab vam, fried banana, peev choj, and some goodies from the platter for dessert. and before they went on their way, my aunt even packed 'em some extra food to take with them too.


after the two missionaries left one of my relatives said:
"yeeb ncuab (<---referring to the mis kas dawb...which happen to be missionaries in this case) mas...dag tsis dag--tuaj thov khawv!. tshaib plab ces tuaj tham pem txog vaj tswv pauv mov noj."

--i'm afraid my relative was correct for the most part. the two misisonaries were hungry, they've been walking around (note: messenger=qhev) all day, and they were starving (because nkawd yog qhev). they saw us having our little celebration, and saw how nice and welcoming we are, so they approached us, with the thought that there are lots of food available, so they are bound to get some. anyhow...we didn't give the food to them because we felt sorry for them...we shared our food with them because peb zoo siab hais tias tus txiv neeb pab tau peb tus neeg mob lawm...


now you see....if our religioin is full of eviless..then we wouldn't share our food with them now would we??(i don't think peb muaj niag devil...just the evil spirits..ntxwg nyug was probably made up for scaring little kids only) anyhow!!...my point here is...peb sacrifice tus npua thiab peb thank the pig's spirit, vim tus txiv neeb coj the pig's spirt mus trade for the sick's(my cousin's) spirit rov qab los lawm...and because of that success...peb siv cov nqaij npuas los ua lub rooj mov...

peb muaj lub siab dawb paug to share peb cov mov rau ob niag missionary noj. if we are soOoOOoOoO evil...and ob niag missionary ntawd twb noj peb cov mov tag lawm...ces txhais tau hais tias...nkawd kuj evil thiab!!..vim nkawd twb nrog peb noj tus npua uas mag sacrifice thiab ne.


we are not evil at all...look at it this way: a robber robbed you. you value your stolen item so much that you are willing to work your butt off to get it back. you worked hard enough to finally get something that you know the robber would want then you set an appointment for someone call the robber up and negotiate with him. the negotiation came to an agreement--traded items. then you celebrate for the return of your valuable item.

[casting:

robber................................................evil spirits
you....................................................shamanist
valuable item......................................sick's spirit
something the robber would want.........pig's spirit
someone............................................shaman
negotiating.........................................ua neeb
celebrate............................................ua ib rooj mov noj]

I see you were writing this and then the damn thread got closed huh?!

AHAHAHH!!..yeah..i was writing it on microsoft word..and then when i came on...txoj thread mag txiav lawm.....ahaha.. :P

wuag...then how come it's opened again? ahahahahaha...but yeah...

edit: OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh now i get it...ahahhahhahaa he was talkin bouts the other thread...gosh...it's about time freakin mod checked it out! i SWEAR...for some time i have been complaining and complaining...and when it's gettin interesting...it closes...ahahahhaa...but anyhow...

to add on to this topic...

like i said in the other thread: ["out of evilness"] shamans only deceive, lie, cheat, negotiate, bribe, ec. evil spirits to protect the sick one's soul...

who would be dumb enough to not lie in a situation of life and death?

You don't want it to close....argue in Hmong LOL

ahahaha it's ok...we could just add on with the different hmong rituals that are performed...xuey...add in on the title or description that this includes different kinds of hmong ceremonies and what it does....ahaha...ces li ntawd peb thiaj li hais tau ob yam hais txog all the different ceremonies (that we could think of) with the use of sarcasm

ohahaHA..i wonder...yus change qhov topic description li cas ne...



anyhow...out of "evilness" (sacrificing the animal)...we get to have our little family function where the old ladies get to gossip and the old man get to stand around and maybe have a little fart contest going on....meanwhile all the kids play niam tais yawm txiv outside...ahHAHHAHAH!!..

mann..them old days...i just miss it so much.......

"eviLness" does the body good..MUAHAHHAHAHHA!

Here we go again. Somebody better close this thread before it is off topic again right moryHX? XueD, do you always over exaggerate your stories and lies? Like we've been saying, shamanism decieves and lies. Is that why you give those Jehovah witness dudes some of your evil scacrified food without telling them? Do you enjoy making fun of other people on their expense? Where are you respect now? Talking about respect for other, I know you show those dudes some of your unique repect manners. People like you, I'll try to stay far away as possible if I see one. I bet those dudes were sent to your house by the christian family up to road. I hope this thread will be just as productive and worth while as the other one. God bless and peace.

Man, it's not like Jesus never lied. In fact, Jesus always lied. Jesus talks the talk but he couldn't walk the walk. And in the end, he got his @$$ whip by the Roman. Remember? He just lay there and let the Romans whip him like the little b!tch that he is. Aman.

Now, get the fu-k out and stop trying to get off topic.

damn that story is sooooooo long i didnt read it....so what is it about?

dude...whoever said that the other thread went off topic BY US?? this was how i saw it...it was christians who in the first place took the other thread down to where it was, in other words christians like you guys where the ones who started the whole deal of going off topic...sorry...i didn't want to fu-ken point fingers but it's only human to do so (we all do that--wait maybe not christians because they are so FULL of purity and so sin-less)...and i resorted to fu-ken cussing because of your act by coming in here trying to tell us the same thing over at the other thread...and obviously coming from a fu-ken damn different world...you probably didn't understand anything that xued said...and oh i know if ever that dude lvrchrst whatever comes here he'll say, 'oh look, this is another theme from the animist: cussing--oh so evil!' fu-ken go ahead...i could careless...anyhow, and what is so wrong to exaggerate stories and lies? if you don't want to read it don't read it (we only do that because we know that IT WILL push your buttons)...nobody's telling you to read it, but of course it's just so entertaining to push people's buttons (i meant that you're pusing our buttons, how? by coming here telling us that this will be closed down because of our off-topicness...which is such a lie)...it's ok....it's the work of the devil (oh...you've acted upon devil's work too!)...and if you're gonna complain in here forget it...you're the one who's gonna be the fault of this thread closing down anyways!!! and fu-ken missionaries should know better than to take evil food...and it's funny...there are such things as evil food? eh i believe we would never be that EVIL to hand anyone evil food...the only evil food i could think of is POISON FOOD...i'm sure those missionaries didn't die (there were no poison in the food) and if they fu-ken learned our language they should know of our religion...and that other thread was not even worth while...i didn't see anyone answering the damn question...except for me...and princess aknowledging it...gosh...and don't god bless this god bless that...especially being devil's daugther and son please i think it won't help us...god's blessing from your mouth and your fingers that typed out those words will not ever bless freakin "EVIL, DECEIVING, BRIBING, LYING" people, animists like us...oh and i think i'm mad because i'm being possessed by an evil spirit? oh i should call a shaman up and tell him to drive the evil spirit out of my body with his magical and powerful evil lies, bribery, and deceivings!!!

anyhow, on topic...

i'm going back to merced (summer after finals) to go talk with my yawg txhiaj who happens to be a shaman...i will ask him about the story of siv yis (i've been wondering about it) and stuff...but i do however know of some ceremonies...although i don't know tag nrho of the stuff that are processed in of each but yeah...but then kuv mus nrhiav kuv daim paper es kuv sau tso...kuv mam rov qab los hauv no and muab post...i think kuv only paub li kab qhov li 4-5 qhov ceremony xwb pob? hmm...but yeah...i shall return un-evilly

but for now i could say this:

+ the pig's soul is used as the sick person's soul's gate (or guard) to block him or her es kom nws txhob mus qhov twg until tus txiv neeg los mus cuag nws.

+ the chicken's soul is used as a guidence.

+ the split horn is used for giving directions.

+ the bench is the "white horse" in the spirit realm.

+ the sword is used to fight the evil spirits (in the spirit realm of course---but mann, i've never seen a shaman use the sword though--i mean as in swinging fighting but yeah)

+ on the alter: the egg and rice is food, the water is wine, and the incesne (sp error?) xyab is cigs.

ahh...i'll be back for some more...

Well, I believe in Star Wars....even though Darth Vader was evil....he still had some good in him...you can see that at the end...he was still Anakin.....He made a last sacrifice to save his only son....Luke....

oh, oh, I know, I know which character you're trying to describe. Is it ZORRO's evil twin brother going mad? You forgot to meantion the mask? You need the mask. ZORRO needs the mask, phoojywg. I wonder if shaman can chant w/o the mask? Also what happen if it fell off during the ritual? The split horn as direction? You're joking right? What direction? Sometime they're pointing to themself and sometime they're pointing in opposite direction. There was one time that I saw this shaman doing the split horn and they wouldn't cooperate so after many tries he just say "huh! kuv mam muab koj khwb kaig xwb ma". So he put those split horns on the floor rather than throwing then on the floor. I thought that was funny. True story. Sorry, I like to have fun sometime. All I can say is you got some imagination.

The truth is you kill the animals to thank your spirits and as an offering to the evil spirits so that they will not return. You use them as a bribery for the evil spirits so that they don't come back tomorrow to take another soul. You may be happy and feel well now but the evil spirits are sitting outside your door step just waiting to take another soul. Your shaman will never ever going to be able continue helping you. There just not one of you in the family, if one don't get it then the others will. If the evil spirits see that you don't thank your so call spirits properly they will come. When they come, they will come by the dozen. Your shaman has to be at your house 24/7.

A "white hore", shouldn't it be a "black horse" so the evil spirits will not be able to see you? duh! Oh I see, maybe it is a black horse but you're trying to decieve the evil spirits so you tell them it is a white horse instead. Now I get it. Maybe it is not even a horse after all. Maybe it is a donkey (an @$$). Recommedation, why don't you add a head and tail to that donkey of yours. It will look more realistic.

Do you think that evil spirits are so dumb that they cannot decieve you in return? If they not smart they wouldn't be evil then. You think you're so smart by decieving them but what you don't know is that they're deceiving you at the sametime. Evil spirits say ok let you can go this time but tomorrow they are back. Back for more souls.

I think I'm going like this thread a lot more than the other one. Let see if we can break 25 pages.

I'm just trying to be funny like you but there is some truth to it.

in case you haven't notice....animists are very symbolic...shaman cannot chant without txoj phuav dub ntawd because that is what's linking them to the other world. txoj phuav dub is never going to fall off...why do you think there is ALWAYS an assistant there. tus assistant ntawd keeps an eye on the shaman...making sure that everything goes accordingly. if txoj phuav yuav hle ces tus assistant ntawd khov rau. the assistant also listens and does all the necessary things that needs to be done on our part of the negotiation. the assistant is also the person that ntaus lub druas neeb ..and usually nws yog tus hlawv ntawd. i'll use an analogy that mory used before to help you understand : shaman is like a doctor--cures the sick. the assistant(s) are the ones who assists :P. kinda like the nurses assisting the doctors...




and u're saying that you don't have an imagination? the only way you know about heaven is thru ur imagination. the only way you know god is your imagination. and all these imaginations of yours...came to be...after reading a fiction book called the hollie bible written by mosses of DisneyThe Jungle Book

gtg to class...i'll see you in merced mory!!....
oh yeah!!..i bought tristan and isolde and casanova--ahah!!..
u remember...casanova..the dude that lies to women so that he can get laid ..(see..im back on topic..well...kinda)

Firts you say shaman is a negotiator, then a deciever and lier, then now a doctor. What else are you going to come up next? Let me recommend you something, how about imagine them to be Ken and Barbie? They can play doctor and nurse as well.

Unlike you, I have more than just imagination I have faith in God. I know God and His heaven through His words. Faith is something you don't have. Why can't the shaman(s) just do one huge 24/7 ritual and be set for life? Jesus die once and my sins are no more. How many more animal must be used to sacrify for you so that you may live? I agree with mory when she says if it is your time to die then there nothing you can do about it. If one of you is possed and the evil spirits got your soul why call the shaman for help anyway? It is his/her time to go that's way the evil spirits came and got the person. You're believing in something that you're afraid of. That's your belief. You scare of what might happend to you or your family if a ritual is not perform on the person. Your belief is not proactive it is reactive. You only do it because if you don't someone is going to die. I don't see shaman people chanting every weekend to protect them from evil spirits? You should, maybe that way the evil spirits will keep their distance. Isn't that the whole point of this? Keep your soul where it belong, it oneself.

Tell everyone how many ritual you must do each year to keep your family from evil spirits? What is the one that you MUST do every year? Do really think "kev caiv" for those few days are going to keep away from those evil spirits?

oh my gosh...what is it that you do not get with shamanism? it's all explain to you already...the shaman negotiates with the people in the other relam when a person is sick...he finds out why this person is leaving...they usually find that they've "ate all their paper" get my meaning...sorry i don't write hmong so it may be harder to understand. From there they tell the family and then they ua neeb and they add on more to the papers so that the person wouldn't die...okay do u get that part? There are aslo some cases of where the spirit is no longer with the person and the shaman tries to go find it...what do u not get...shaman=witch doctor....again he's not a liar...he devices bad spirts to protect the person and lead them back to where the came from when they died...it does not mean that they are liars...if you simpily cannot accept it then just leave it again...this was all cover already...yes, it's understandable that you found a faith that is right for you...and it's one thing to try and understand a person's religion but in this cae you're just making fun of it...I'm sure that you're old enough understand the hmong ways especially since you said that you've already had a child...you don't need anyone to explain this to you...i'm sure you should know enough about it by now...this isn't to jacoc alone...to everyone: if this thread is going to be another my religion is better than yours then theres no point in continuing it...

Thier Mormon missionaries. Mormons are the only people that train white guys to talk hmong.

Remember, Mormons arn't Christians. You probably made this post so people could bash Christians. (Since the other post was closed.)

How come you kept telling the short version only. I need more detail that's why I've asked a lot of questions. Since you, moryHX, and XueD claim to know so much about Christian I just want to learn about your shaman in great detail. Tell me in great detail now and don't leave anything out. Consider this as a Shaman101 class. Your version is like once upon a time they did this and that and then the end. If you don't think you know the whole ritual then go ask the elders. Before you believe in something you need to know it in great detail. Please, can you help me out?

Do you know the first thing the shaman does when he gets of the horse?

Yes, this thread is not about my religion is better than yours or yours better than mine it is about missionaries and those proud shaman people in this forum. Save the warning for someone else. Can't you tell who've started this thread?

Notice what she say [out of "evilness".., peb hmoob muaj lub siab dawb paug] She is focused on shamanism. Peb hmoob means "peb cov ua neeb". It's obvious what she is trying to say here. Peb hmoob lub siab dawb sab nrauv xwb tiam sis sab hauv ma twb lwj tas lawm. Tus neeg no ciaj sab nrauv tiam sis sab hauv twb tuag lawm.

jacoc316' 'May 5 2006, 10:03 AM' post
Let me recommend you something,

surprise, surprise!!!...i have a suggestion for you too!...
you might want to consider your health. Seems like the chemical imbalance in your brain had just increased, therefore, you've accumulated a disorder since your living days on america. you might want to call up a shaman to negotiate back your spirit...for you seem to have some symptoms of a psycho...
but im not encouraging you to see a shaman...you can let go of ur life easily that way you can drop by "god's" crib in "heaven"--also!!..one less person to care for on earth. ...


'jacoc316' date='May 5 2006, 10:03 AM
shaman is a negotiator, then a deciever and lier, then now a doctor. What else are you going to come up next?

here u question us when you claim that god's a savior..he's the creator of earth/universe..or whatever....and he's the truth and etc....


do u not know that ONE person can be ANY COMBINATION of these: teacher, a sister, a mother, a daughter, a child, a student, a father, a brother, a sibling, an aunt, an uncle, a grandma, a grandpa, and so much more....... since according to you, im only an amateur….gosh...don't show me your ignorant side


Faith is something you don't have

Puas yog ma??…koj twb tsis paub kuv es koj ho paub jump into conclusion li kov??…u must be god then??

Why can't the shaman(s) just do one huge 24/7 ritual and be set for life?

Generally, some families have only ua neeb once for the whole family…why??..b/c that one time created enough security for that particular family..i guess?. So it really depends on the family.


Jesus die once and my sins are no more

AHAHAHAHAH…FAV NIM TAS….so then if jesus died twice…we’re gon be living like Tuck Everlasting?
Let’s say I’ve “accidently” punched someone to death…then I can blame jesus…right??..
Wow…im starting to like your jesus..if that's the case….



How many more animal must be used to sacrify for you so that you may live?




Uhh..have u been counting all the beef and pork and chickens you’ve been eating??—I mean..unless you’re a vegetarian you’ve been eating animals so that you can stay alive..i’ve lost count of the ones I’ve consumed already….hmm..so to answer your question…LOTS AND LOTS more until I die. Yummy buffalo wings. Drumstick. Ribs. Yum yum…ssssLLLLP!.


the evil spirits got your soul why call the shaman for help anyway? It is his/her time to go that's way the evil spirits came and got the person

Let’s say your friend was ..oh I don’t know…possessed by evil spirits and was trying to commit suicide. You happen to walk in and saw what your friend was trying to do. Are you going to stand there and watch your friend kill himself? I mean, if you do decide to stand there and be entertained by the whole scene, then WAY TO GO god’s son!—you have such high morals.

You only do it because if you don't someone is going to die.

So then you believe shamanism is effective. Well...Of course…it is. if we don’t do it then someone might result in dying. And of course we only do it when someone is sick….do you visit the doctor every weekend for a check up? I DON’T THINK SO!! We only do it when necessary…do I have to point out again that a shaman is LIKE a doctor?


XueD, do you always over exaggerate your stories and lies?

Really?..u think im exaggerating?…or did i tell the story exactly as i can recall it. the only thing i've ever lied about was my name...so i can PROTECT myself from strangers. [sarcastic tone:] im sure u've never lied about your name in your entire life...nor introduced urself to a stranger using ur "nickname".


Do you enjoy making fun of other people on their expense? Where are you respect now? Talking about respect for other, I know you show those dudes some of your unique repect manners. People like you, I'll try to stay far away as possible if I see one.


I have my respects..im just trying to make sense of your nonsense. I have respect for those who respects me. wow...people like me??...let me know when u run into one..i'd like to meet 'em


Do you think that evil spirits are so dumb that they cannot decieve you in return? If they not smart they wouldn't be evil then. You think you're so smart by decieving them but what you don't know is that they're deceiving you at the sametime.



How would u know if evil spirits are smart?…u know that they have brains? You know that evil spirits practice theory of the mind? Mann…is the bible teaching you this??..gosh…this is horrible….u are losing your mind!! Come here son…im your savior!..HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
aheM..ahah…damn..nvm that…but mann…evil spirits...I’ve never seen/met them before….so they are whatever you imagine to be...i guess...but you wrote those few sentences as if you’ve encountered evil spirits before…were your holy water off duty?




.








i just assumed they were chrisitians because they believed in god. and they were telling my uncles about their church....ha! well...noticed the topic is: out of evilness (<--hopefully i made you feel better by adding that)

i didn't read much after the first post but i just have to add that it's not the religion that's evil/bad, it's the people that follow it and take it to the extreme.

and you have assumed wrong...if you felt quited bashed...then i'm assuming that YOU WANT IN ON BEING "SOME" christians??? it's your choice...no one's forcing you to be in on "christians who believe beyond belief that their religion is fu-ken superior above ALL other who also happens to be so damn narrow minded". if you're not one of those christians...that's good...but it seems you want in on that group? don't bother replying back...thank you.


YOU fu-kEN INSTIGATOR stop getting the thread to be off topic...look i've been possessed again! and koj paub los instigate xwb lob? i thought you have a daughter who is 7 years old? i suppose you should know better than to instigate? twb muaj hnub nyoog lawm los tsis tau na?

and that part that i blew up in to size 7 in your reply...that is the most fu-ken funniest thing ever! ahahaha...whoever said that we claimed to know SO MUCH of christianity? only you claimed that...ahahaha...just to speak for myself...i think you thought i proclaimed it...but i'm truly sorry...i did no such thing...if you can prove to me that i did claim to know so much about christianity please do and i'll fu-ken stop typing!!!

and of course we know who started this thread you don't need to point it out indirectly...and if you want it to be closed please do bring in on the freakin moderator! and if you are not a damn morman then please don't get offended...if you do get offended i'd assume you're a morman? but of course you already calimed to be a follower of "THE SUPERIOR RELIGION" so that's a dumb assumption...

and obviously you didn't understand a word xueD said! are you blind? or is it just that you can't read right? she didn't even say, "Peb hmoob luv siab dawb sab nrauv xwb tiam sis sab hauv ma[s] twb lwj tas lawm." re-read it...but anyhow...too much truth for you blinds you from simple sentences...

and to be ON TOPIC once again...

the black or red veil (and IT IS NOT A fu-kEN MASK get your words right jococ) and xueD already clarified that...just to add on tus txiv neeb use is as a blockage between the mortal and spirit world...it helps him or her to concentrate while in the spirt world.

then there's the tswb neeb (finger bell rings) it is used as a brand marker...for example...when thaum yus uas that ceremony "HU DAB PLIG" the txiv neeb stamps the tswb neeb in your back to brand you so whenever evil spirits xav los coj koj li soul or ntsuj plig mus ces lawd paub not to coj koj because you belong to someone else...

ok...ib pliag kuv mam rov qab los...kuv yuav tsum tau mus ua homework lawm (i was just on a quick break)

Yes I do. Do you know that God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are ONE person?


Nope, tsis paub koj os tus muam.


Are these families still around? Just curious.


Only if that other person's friend don't punch you to death first. Maybe you can save yourself by telling them that you know shamanism and you will cast a curse on them. Funny?


In your case, I think you'll run away to go and get the shaman. Right? Shaman can help him. By that time he probably dead already. If he really want to do it no matter what you do he will suceed. If not today there always tomorrow.


I believe that satan (master of all evil) exist that's why I believe that God exist. I didn't say I don't believe shamanism. I say shamanism decieveful and lies. At act of evil doing. Ok, shamanism is not evil...right. Let see how quick this thread will be blocked. Again, shaman is not like a doctor. Stop telling yourself that. Doctors work at places like hospital and clinic. They got license to practice. All your shaman does is going through a so call intense training. That intense training is sleep and had dream.


Nope, I am true to myself. I don't need to lie when I talk to anyone.


Since you mention it I did ran into one. That's you. Hey XueD, meet XueD.


They are smart enough to take your soul. Can a smartest person in to world do that? Nope, evil spirits can not touch me. With Jesus beside me, I don't fear any evil spirit. The only thing I fear is God's judgement. All non-believers will be cast to the lake of fire.

Honestly, I know you mean well about your story and you don't think it will not hurt anybody but your story does make one feels mock at (this what moryHX says she wouldn't do). If you want to funny then funny is all you're going to get. If you want to be serious then maybe we'll get some where with this thread. God bless and peace.

Wait...but don't mormons claim to be the church of jesus christ?


Yes...I know that part...as a matter of fact I studied it....however...Jesus is still not God and not the Holy Ghost...though they are one...honestly that never made much sense to me....


yes...they're still around...our family does it...

And Jacco if you want to know something then ask genuinly please instead of trying to be sarcastic about the whole thing...even if I don't know about it i'm sure someone is willing to answer you...again it sounds like the my religion is better than yours thread...

Ha ha ha ha I like these threads.

And you praying to God can prevent him from killing himself? Lol.



So Shaman doesn't have a license to heal people. So what? A preacher and a prist doesn't have a license to pray and heal a person either. But they still do it. And a Shaman would still do it too. So instead, you prefer praying to a "God" in the sky? And that will magically help a person? Praying too is also a lie. A lie to yourself. By praying, you're just lying to yourself and hoping that that person will get well soon. Because you know that no matter what, nothing but modern medicine can help a sick person. Whoever taught you that praying helps has lie to you.



Of course you do not lie. But the stuff that comes out of your mouth are lies. For example, your Christianity religion is a lie. Maded up by a bunch of Whitemen to control you. See how much your life have been controlled by this religion? See how much freedom you have lost because of Christianity? You can no longer just enjoy a meal without having to Worship your "God" in the sky. You can no longer spend your weekend to yourself. Instead, you must worship your "God" in the sky every Sunday.



I see. So you're a vary self conscious person. Always living in fear of God's judgement. Wow, what a sad religion and a sad life that is. To be always living in fear of God's judgement. We on the other hand, do not need to worry about the lake of fire, since when people die, people died. There is no other life. We do not need to worry about another life. We are free to do as we like in this life without fear of God's judgement. And yes, we can do very bad things and get away with it. And that is the great thing about Shamanism. Too bad your religion limited you to a boring life of little options.

They do. You're so not intelligent dude. Tell me, does doctor have and altar like the shaman "doctor"?


I have gained more than I have lost. My life with God have been changed and controlled for the better.


Princess, are you going to tell this dude to stop bashing the shaman folks and giving them a bad name? You don't me to say this dude is the perfect example of people who believe in shaman are all about do you? Is it true what this dude is saying? moryHX says we're (shaman folks) not bad people but this dude says differently. Somebody better tell this dude to dissappear before he shows more of your shaman people in here true colors. I like this dude. Thanks dude, I agree with everything you've say. Continue to tell everyone your honest feeling. Let it out and you'll feel better.

Heaven and hell? Believe it or not, we all will get to find out one day.

Wow.

Wow again! Where are moryHX and XueD when you need their support.


Is this the finally answer? Is this the best thing you can say about your belief? Is this what you all shaman people are so proud of-the will to do whatever you want to do? The belief that has no rules? The belief of no right and wrong? I've been telling people in this forum that shaman is deceitful and lies from the beginning but other people kept ignoring me. Thanks for supporting me on this one. Finally the truths surfaced. You want to follow no rules but your own, is this why you've chosen to ignore chritianity? You ignore it because you want to do everything your heart desires. I hope all other shaman folks out there are not you. If there are, I know they will support you. But if there are not, I hope that they speak out and stand for their belief.

i'm just curious.....

why do you christians thank god for your meal everytime before you eat?? was it god that made it??
i swear this is the lamest thing every haha. like, you see your mom or wife makes it right in front of you, and yet you thank god for the meal and not the person who made it? can god even hear you??

again i'm just curious.... don't have to answer if you dont' want to. i want a straight forward, straight to the point answer. don't give me an essay.

Nope, I don’t want to prove you’re wrong. I need your comments and funny sarcasms. This thread wouldn’t be this way without you and XueD. Please, continue typing.


Concentrate? That’s funny. How could one concentrate with all that noise? Do you go and study for your test at a rock concert? “Silence is the best music to the ears”. Oh, you misspell the word spirit at the end.


I must apologize first because you’ve amused me so much. If that is the case then why not put the brand mark on every inch of your body so that there is no guessing on the evil spirits part? If shaman works so well then why not do it every weekend? Continuously putting the mark brand on. Well heck, just don’t take a shower and that mark won't be washed out. Better yet, just use permanent marker and you’ll never get to call on a shaman again. Hint: you’ve mention “whenever evil spirits xa los coj…” Ntuj os ntuj aw, lawv xa los coj all the time, every second. Let me tell you, evil spirits work 24/7. They don’t take a break when you're sleeping, having fun, or going to school. They’re constantly working for your soul.

If you want to funny then funny is all you're going to get. If you want to be serious then maybe we'll get some where with this thread. God bless and peace.

I’ll be waiting for you. Have fun in class?

Let me see, you've asked that on the other thread. Will you be satisfied with a straight forward answer? For you, maybe the best straight forward answer is no answer. Your questions are so straight forward so I am going to answer it in a straight forward question answer. Why you non-christian folks don't thank anybody-like your dab neeb spirits on every meal? Why you don't ask them to come and feast with you at every meal? All you gave them are smoke from "hlawv yhab hlawv ntawv", a tea pot with water, and some uncook rice on the altar. No wonder the spirits are unhappy all the time. How could you not worship something that you believe in? Even the indians back then thank the land for their food.

what other thread did i ask this question???

we don't thank them for the meal because it wasn't them that got us the meal, it was result from our hard work. why do we need to thank them? i'm sorry but your answer didn't answer my question. if you are so sure that christianity is the only truth and will be then why don't you answer with an answer instead of asking me something. or do you don't have an answer for it? do you only do it because you are told to? do you only do it because you're suppose to do it? you don't even know the reason you are doing it, and yet you are doing it thinking it's a good thing.

if you do have a reason for doing it then please answer it. again, are you sure it was god that got you the meal?? ill understand if you say you do beleive god got your meal for you, but i'll probably just laugh.

'jacoc316' 'May 5 2006, 01:21 PM'
Yes I do. Do you know that God, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are ONE person?

i don't know anything about how many forms god has become....i don't need god to live in my head...for you seem to speak for god all the time… and i already think you have a brain damage....i don't want to be in the same hole as you......you’re just too….HOLIE....ahahahah!
Are these families still around? Just curious.


yeah..u can visit them in thailand...or laos....


Only if that other person's friend don't punch you to death first.


that person's friend has a similar personality like yours...u know..the kind of friends that "got your back"..yep..forsure that friend took off! err...well let's say that...the friend watched me punched this one person to death from a block away...hiding behind a corner...like a coward he is??...

In your case, I think you'll run away to go and get the shaman. Right? Shaman can help him. By that time he probably dead already. If he really want to do it no matter what you do he will suceed. If not today there always tomorrow.


i can save my friends w/o anybody's help....im not helpless like you....i don't plead god for help when I can be my own god and prevent suicide from happening. It only takes human power.


I believe that satan (master of all evil) exist that's why I believe that God exist. I didn't say I don't believe shamanism. I say shamanism decieveful and lies. At act of evil doing. Ok, shamanism is not evil...right. Let see how quick this thread will be blocked. Again, shaman is not like a doctor. Stop telling yourself that. Doctors work at places like hospital and clinic. They got license to practice. All your shaman does is going through a so call intense training. That intense training is sleep and had dream.


so then you're the only one that believes in satan then...b/c peb tsis muaj satan....peb tsuas muaj dab (<--refering to the deceased ones)


you know what!!..im thinking about how a poem could be interpreted in so many ways.....for example...a poem with all positive words...could have a negative meaning...and vice versa as well. it all depends on how bright a person is..and how a person process the information...and so again, hmong culture/religion ces....we like to say something and see how the receiver is processing the information...then we would explain our views.....well...at least that's how our family does it sometimes... ... ahaha…anyhow…qhov nov kuv lam hais raws li kuv xav xwb.

those who believes qhaub ke is evil...think of it however you want...because it means more than just the words....i don't know what your brain is telling you when you supposedly “pay attention” to the qhaub ke….but i see a whole different picture when i hear it. i guess after reading the holy bible, it has desensitized you. Or maybe it sensitized you too much. I would like that to be the case for me…but I owe myself a Sunday/Saturday sleep-in, EVERY WEEKEND…whOooOoppiee!!

They are smart enough to take your soul. Can a smartest person in to world do that? Nope, evil spirits can not touch me. With Jesus beside me, I don't fear any evil spirit. The only thing I fear is God's judgement. All non-believers will be cast to the lake of fire.

And you are sooOOoO smart for thinking that evil spirits have a brain when you’ve never met one before…geez…of course the smartest person in the world cannot do that……u even wrote “person”..and yet you cannot see that we’re only humans?? Humans tsis muaj super powers….unless your brain is playing tricks on you…I mean..with the brain damage and all…u might not be able to tell the difference between reality and dream. If you believe evil spirits can’t touch you, then I guess it’s your imagination. Jesus is not beside you…he’s the voice in your head when your imaginary friend wants to play with you. Of course you don’t fear evil spirit…the one and only evil spirit is living in your head. and are you saying that you’re afraid of your own judgement??..i mean…after all…god lives in your head…

Honestly, I know you mean well about your story and you don't think it will not hurt anybody but your story does make one feels mock at (this what moryHX says she wouldn't do). If you want to funny then funny is all you're going to get. If you want to be serious then maybe we'll get some where with this thread.


If you feel mocked and yet you TRY to do the same toward me… encouraging me to continue. you claim you’re not a hypocrite…but you seem to have all the symptoms to a hypocrite..which makes you a hypocrite…you claim you’re not converting anyone…yet you do your best to make us agree to your point of view. You said with all your sin you deserve hell, but you’re going to “heaven” AKA cemetery AKA 6 ft under….can you be any more contradicting? I mean…you also claim to be god’s son…and yet you’re only a human being. You don’t think your religion is superior yet your big talk says it for you… if you are as great as you see yourself…WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE? Why not die and leave the world to go to “heaven”? you only see things according to your eyes. Out of the ENTIRE bible…you only pick out the things you want to know or want to see…and brag about it. You don’t tell the flaws because you dream to be there one day…so you don’t want that image to be ruined…so of course it will have to be perfect. Perfection doesn’t exist in reality. Perfection only exists in imaginations and dreams…exactly what your non-fiction called “holy bible” is. Don’t waste your time to study the bible when “heaven” is not guaranteed. It doesn’t come with a warranty…so you might as well skip it. But of course you won’t ignore it…you’re blinded by the beauty and you don’t see the flaws. Well…I guess…you’re only human.


Concentrate? That’s funny. How could one concentrate with all that noise?

Concentration, in this case, is something an old christian man like you would never understand. And I suggest that you don’t try to understand..b/c with your brain damage…your life could be at stake. which let me remind you…that you claim you will be going to “heaven”…u know…6 ft under…



If that is the case then why not put the brand mark on every inch of your body so that there is no guessing on the evil spirits part? If shaman works so well then why not do it every weekend? Continuously putting the mark brand on. Well heck, just don’t take a shower and that mark won't be washed out. Better yet, just use permanent marker and you’ll never get to call on a shaman again. Hint: you’ve mention “whenever evil spirits xa los coj…” Ntuj os ntuj aw, lawv xa los coj all the time, every second. Let me tell you, evil spirits work 24/7. They don’t take a break when you're sleeping, having fun, or going to school. They’re constantly working for your soul.


Wow…in this paragraph… you actually attempted to show your evil side. Aww..and you claim to be god’s son. Ha!!…u’re as evil as every person on earth. you seem to be a little insecure eh?…afraid that dab might los coj koj pob??…maybe your holy water expired…u might wanna renew it at the god shop in “heaven”…in order to get there..you need to die. It may only cost you your whole life…but you have nothing to lose. Go for it!

. And uHh…I got a suggestion for you too….if that bible of yours is holy….you could be holy too if you glue the pages of the bible on you…make sure you cover every inch of your body..including genitals…AHAHA!! Mann…you can walk around town as the HOLY MAN. As you are being “holy”..u can tell 3-year olds that you’re god….majority of them will believe you. Unless they are smarter than you then they might oppose to what you tell them.

Ohh!!..i remember in elementary school when we make cocoons with newspapers…we applied starch on the strip of newspapers to make the cocoon hard and firm….WELL!!!..if you add some starch to the holy pages that goes on your body…u can be the other form of god. Wow..full body cast…exactly what god would mold himself to be like==human.

If you want to funny then funny is all you're going to get. If you want to be serious then maybe we'll get some where with this thread. God bless and peace.

I’ll be waiting for you. Have fun in class?


Let me remind you that the other thread got nowhere…and im sure you were very serious in the other thread. But anyhow…yeah…class was fun…the instructor was telling us what he had to go through just trying to avoid missionaries. Ha!:P…bet you like that one didn’t cha.

Let me see, you've asked that on the other thread. Will you be satisfied with a straight forward answer? For you, maybe the best straight forward answer is no answer. Your questions are so straight forward so I am going to answer it in a straight forward question answer. Why you non-christian folks don't thank anybody-like your dab neeb spirits on every meal? Why you don't ask them to come and feast with you at every meal? All you gave them are smoke from "hlawv yhab hlawv ntawv", a tea pot with water, and some uncook rice on the altar. No wonder the spirits are unhappy all the time. How could you not worship something that you believe in? Even the indians back then thank the land for their food.

We don’t thank peb cov dab neeb on every meal we have. But in the beginning of each season of each crop…we invite them to join the first meal with us…if yadamean….
I believe it is called….ntov pob ntoos. And again….an old christain man like you..won’t ever understand why we hlawv xyab thiab ntawd to our ancestors…nor are you going to understand why we have txhuv thiab dej nyob saum thaj neeb…even though we’ve already explained it.

And I guess it never occurred to you that plain water is needed to make every meal…and it may never occurred to you that with txhuv…you can make mov… I guess koj nyob nyob thiab thov thov god ces…god cia li tso steamed rice rau ntawm koj lub rooj noj mov xwb. (ßyou would say that even though you saw your wife cook the txhuv and turned it into mov)…(assuming that you are married since you have a kid.)

A+

damn, XueD can really talk.

and did we all (the animists that is) agree to it that HE REPRESENTS ALL OF US??? HELL NO WE SURE AS EVERY THING else DIDN'T! it's his belief...his belief is not my belief nor the others...or if they wish to proceed and believe in whatever he believes...hey it's there choice...i, we, can't stop them...dude...and side note: good thing i don't believe you represent all the other Hmong christians that are out there or are in this very thread and forum...and i don't need to think that either because of all christians i've stumbled upon...you along with two other friends from the other thread are the most narrow-minded christians ever...thank lub ntuj i have considerate hmong and non-hmong christian friends...and sure as every thing else, there are animists who are narrow minded (THANK NTUJ i'm not one ), but please know that other animists are not representors for all animists...in fact...there's no need to be representin' a religion at all...that's a child's game...and don't turn this around to say that i'm representing what i believe in...and that i'm contradicting myself...because i'm not...i'm merely sharing information with others who are interested in the cultural practice that i happen to participate in...


and if you seriously thought that my last post in this thread was "SUPPOSED" to be funny...you have assumed wrong...remember what i told you in the other thread? if not...i'll remind you...just because i post replies in such threads, it does not determine my whole character...only "narrow minded people" tend to think that some replies determine an individuals' full and whole character...perfect example: you (now that's meant to be funny--ha-ha-ha!)

of course concentrate...and with all that noise? just like god's words are "music to your ears"...the sound of gongs, metal plates and the steel ring with copper coins goin' off...that's "music" to a shaman to enter the realm of spirits...and you must've misunderstood my post...i said, "...tus txiv neeb use is [it should be it--you missed this correction ] as a blockage between the mortal and spirit [good eyes] world...it helps him or her to concentrate while in the spirt world." if you didn't understand that then it must be that your brain didn't process the right information or that my words must have been muddy...if that's the case let me rewrite that sentence...just for the betterment of others who may or may not stumble in this thread:

The black or red veil is used by a Shaman during a trance. This black or red veil is used as a blockage between the mortal and the spirit world. How does it act as a blocakage one may ask--well, using the veil to cover his or her face, the Shaman well most likely not see the mortal world--let's put it this way: when in a trance, it is like dreaming (I got that piece of info from a pro-Shaman that I interviewed); the only time one dreams is when one is asleep...and when sleeping, are our eyes opened or closed? CLOSED of course! So the veil acts as an eye...when the Shaman uses it, it closes behind the mortal realm and takes the Shaman to the spirit world that is like a dream. The veil, also acts as a disguise in the spirit world. The veil is, too, also used by Shamans for concentraction. How can a Shaman concentrate when the gong (lub nraus neeb), the copper steel ring with copper coins (txiab neeb) are going off? The answer is, how can a Shaman peform a ceremony without these instruments? These instruments are important in a ceremony. The "txiab neeb" is used to catch a patient's soul so that it wouldn't escape and "lub nraus neeb" is used to guide the patient's soul to come back to its rightful place (his or her body on Earth) and to also give the Shaman the location of the patient's soul. So when saying that the Shaman uses the veil as concentration, it means that the veil allows the Shaman to block the mortal and the spirit world, despite all the instruments (that are required) making sounds that would seem a "bit distracting".

see...exactly...you know you're wrong...since you didn't want to prove me wrong...it's an agreement that I didn't CLAIM to know SO MUCH about christianity...so please do not wrongly accuse me.

I'll be double posting but hey...who ever moderates these threads anyhow? no one!!! until it's all fu-ken off topic...so fu-k it!


and you've manage to do it again...answering a question in a form of another question...how smart...so stingy of educating others with what you know...and please don't say that US "non-christian folks" don't thank anybody...I personally thank my MOM who cooks for me when I used to live with her...and now I think my sisters whenever they cook for me...and don't get me wrong...I know how to cook myself too...but do I think myself? eh...so so...not really...and I believe xueD explained and gave you all the answers...although this post of yours (the one i quoted just above here) is directed to herc...you did include "non-christian folks" so i didn't see any harm in replying back at you...

anyhow...i'd just like to add on...like xueD said, "And again….an old christain man like you..won’t ever understand why we hlawv xyab thiab ntawd to our ancestors…nor are you going to understand why we have txhuv thiab dej nyob saum thaj neeb…even though we’ve already explained it." and i'd agree with her on the part where "nor are you going to understand...even though we've already explained it." because why ask the question when it's already explained...just in case you didn't catch it or didn't read it (i don't like to repeat myself, but in this case i'm going to have to repeat myself for i am merely trying to make you understand these concepts--a new technique i picked up from the other thread from your friend lvrfchrst --even if you won't accept it...just as long as you have a kind heart to understand it). Anyhow, the XYAB acts as cigarettes...and when PEB HLAWV NTAWV, those "ntawv neeb" acts as money...and we don't give our ancestors "A TEA POT OF WATER"...it's more like a few shots of water...which again, acts as WINE...and then lastly, the UNCOOKED RICE, or the more appropriate term "GRAINS OF RICE" filled in a small bowl acts as food...

and even the indians back then thank the land for their food...don't forget they also thanked the animals too...and so the question is: are we indians? so what are you trying to say about "NON-christian HMONG folks" huh? i would love to know what's in your thoughts...and with all these ridiculous replies of yours, which makes you seem to be a non-intelligent person, not ignorant, because it seems koj twb laus dua peb...i would assume that you should know more than us...now didn't you pm me one time saying that you know of the hmong culture? huh? and you should know as will that the hmong people's identity are their culture and traditions and along with those two...religion is intertwined with them...if there's no religion then there would be no tradition nor culture...am i right or no? if you disagree...here's the definition from dictionary.com of what tradition is:

The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
1. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
2. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners.

and come to think of it, is the hmong culture, majority of the time, not through oral communication?

Are there still families out there that still lwm qaib and khi cov hlua tes liab? I’m just curious because it seems like my family has stopped with cov hlua tes liab. Well, maybe because of the family split up too, but then mann, I missed those times. I can still remember when all my siblings and I would see who can keep their hlua tes ntev tshaj. Ahah. It used to be fun until we grew up. Last year, peb only lwm qaib xwb. WAIT…do those two even go together? Gosh, it seems like so long ago. Or maybe I just missed it so much because the first year that peb tsis khi hlua tes was when I lost my little brother. * Shrugs *


And then there comes the tua qaib thiab tseev qaib…after the whole family lwm qaib tag..ahaha. C’mon girls…WHO HATES IT?…ahaha..geez…sometimes I get so lazy…I just chop off the head so that I won’t have to clean it. I usually toss it out before my mom sees it. Ahah…total laziness. well..except for ob niag qaib hu plig that i don't chop off the heads.

Oh mann!!…I should go back and learn how to tais cov money..err…me nyuam yaus call it paper nkoj.

Once my mom asked me to kib paj for nws lub thaj neeb, mann was I stupid. Ahah…I didn’t know that I had to cut new papers and change all the food and water from lub thaj neeb. I thought you just toss the old stuff and place in new ones. LESSON LEARNED. There’s a process. kuv laib change everything thiab taab lub thaj tshiab for my mom and nws have to ua neeb after I change everything. Doing that was interesting, but the only sucky part was when kuv ntaus nruas..ahahaha…after my mom got off, she told me that I made it hard for her to concentrate because kuv ntaus tau tej tem nrov nrov thiab tej teg yau yau. So then Jacoc, hopefully you’ll understand that it helps them concentrate. I didn’t mean to be so harsh on you on my previous post. Ahaha..i just got a little carried away. Anyhow, hopefully you’re not butt-hurt about it…although it was a good laugh… ahah

On topic: out of evilness im still a good person. AHAHAHAHHAH..damn..this sentence makes me laugh…anyhow….time to sleep. I’m too tired these days. I’ll dream about my career in evilness.

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
yeah..u can visit them in thailand...or laos....
[/quote]

Great, there already are missionaries in thai and laos.

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
that person's friend has a similar personality like yours...u know..the kind of friends that "got your back"..yep..forsure that friend took off! err...well let's say that...the friend watched me punched this one person to death from a block away...hiding behind a corner...like a coward he is??
[/quote]

All I can say is you got some imagination. This is how shamanism got started, out of imagination.
[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
so then you're the only one that believes in satan then...b/c peb tsis muaj satan....peb tsuas muaj dab (<--refering to the deceased ones)
[/quote]

Any for “dab” belongs to the master of dab (satan). Believe in Satan or not you and I will see Satan one day if we don’t believe in God.
[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
those who believes qhaub ke is evil...think of it however you want...because it means more than just the words....i don't know what your brain is telling you when you supposedly “pay attention” to the qhaub ke….but i see a whole different picture when i hear it. i guess after reading the holy bible, it has desensitized you. Or maybe it sensitized you too much. I would like that to be the case for me…but I owe myself a Sunday/Saturday sleep-in, EVERY WEEKEND…whOooOoppiee!!
[/quote]

I just don’t thing qhuab kev is evil I know it is. You are so foolish. You want to think the bad is good and the good is bad. I don’t need to pay attention to it. It is there in black and white. Read it again. If you can’t read it please someone with a little less of imagination read it for you.

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
If you believe evil spirits can’t touch you, then I guess it’s your imagination. Jesus is not beside you…he’s the voice in your head when your imaginary friend wants to play with you. Of course you don’t fear evil spirit…the one and only evil spirit is living in your head. and are you saying that you’re afraid of your own judgement??..i mean…after all…god lives in your head…
[/quote]

Again, you got some imagination. Play a lot with Barbie and Ken on your younger years huh?

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
Don’t waste your time to study the bible when “heaven” is not guaranteed. It doesn’t come with a warranty…so you might as well skip it. But of course you won’t ignore it…you’re blinded by the beauty and you don’t see the flaws. Well…I guess…you’re only human.
[/quote]

I agree with you that there’s a chance that I may not get to heaven but I can tell you that “hell” is a guarantee for all that don’t believe in God.
[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
Concentrate? That’s funny. How could one concentrate with all that noise?
Concentration, in this case, is something an old christian man like you would never understand. And I suggest that you don’t try to understand..
[/quote]

You’re ignoring the question. I don’t understand so you help me understand.

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
. And uHh…I got a suggestion for you too….if that bible of yours is holy….you could be holy too if you glue the pages of the bible on you…
[/quote]
Good suggestion but little too late. I believe God’s words in the bible and the words live in me. It covers me… and yes it covers every inch of my body. Thanks for the suggestion. Any more suggestion?

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
Ohh!!..i remember in elementary school when we make cocoons with newspapers…we applied starch on the strip of newspapers to make the cocoon hard and firm….WELL!!!..if you add some starch to the holy pages that goes on your body…u can be the other form of god. Wow..full body cast…exactly what god would mold himself to be like==human.
[/quote]

Again, good idea but I still want talk to you. Maybe I’ll try it one of these days.

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
We don’t thank peb cov dab neeb on every meal we have. But in the beginning of each season of each crop…we invite them to join the first meal with us…if yadamean….
I believe it is called….ntov pob ntoos. And again….an old christain man like you..won’t ever understand why we hlawv xyab thiab ntawd to our ancestors…nor are you going to understand why we have txhuv thiab dej nyob saum thaj neeb…even though we’ve already explained it.
[/quote]

Why don’t you tell me to use my imagination again? You know what people say when they know it is a lie? “Stop blowing smoke”, get it?

[quote name='XueD' date='May 8 2006, 06:04 PM' post='1832133']
And I guess it never occurred to you that plain water is needed to make every meal…and it may never occurred to you that with txhuv…you can make mov… I guess koj nyob nyob thiab thov thov god ces…god cia li tso steamed rice rau ntawm koj lub rooj noj mov xwb. (ßyou would say that even though you saw your wife cook the txhuv and turned it into mov)…(assuming that you are married since you have a kid.)
[/quote]

Did you harvest that 100lb bag of rice that you got from the oriental grocery? Nope, I don’t think so. Who harvest it and brought to the store? Talking about narrow mind people. All you think about is what is in front of you. No wonder you’re your own god. You don’t even look upyou’re your own “dab”. You should be ashamed giving your “dab” uncooked rice and fake papers. Some of these alter I’ve seen are so mess up. It looks like it hasn’t been touch for years. How about that rey_eyes dude bashing you shaman folks? Are you just going take that? You don’t even stand for yourself. You don’t want to tell him to go and kiss his own butt because you and him have different “dab” right? We should have another thread just to talk about different shaman clan’s “dab”.

Answer to your question: Is all of our blood red? Tell me who started thread, why, and for what purpose? I’m here because of what you’ve started.

You may know a lot about the meaning behind each item the shaman used but all items are used as disguises (to deceive and lie).

This is shamanism. It might seem like true religion, but it actually has far more in common with witchcraft. It's trappings are the trappings of the Divinely given Jewish system of sacrifice; but its objectives are those of the occultist. The goal of the occultist is to find the techniques for manipulating things in the physical world in such a way that the spiritual world will respond. He is a maker of charms, spells, rituals and incantations, which he hopes have spiritual power. He seeks to gain control over his destiny. He is in search of the right words or techniques to get what he wants; to gain supernatural control over whatever forces guide his fate. In effect, shamanism is the belief that through the right technique people can gain a measure of control over God, at least to coerce or influence his favors.


Come on now, it is not Saturday and Sunday yet. Those are your days to sleep.

Here is a definition for religious
1. Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.
2. Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text.
3. Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty.
It says nothing about tradition. I’ll say it one more time….Shamanism is not a tradition. Hmong tradition is not going to be any less w/o shamanism.


No heart feeling here. Correct me if I’m wrong but you did say that everything you believe in is all in your head? It is whatever your imagination created to be? Is this why you take you belief not so seriously? According to you, you don’t need to do anything because you’re your own god.

http://cas.bethel.edu/admissions/mcr/tapes...4/apurpose.html

Every hmong in here need to read this story. It reminds each of us how our parents got us to where we are today.

DUDE...FREAKIN QUOTE THE RIGHT PERSON! and here we go again...off topic-ness just seems to flow very and really well in his typings...

i'll be back later.

I don't see any difference between you and XueD. As far as I'm concern you two are the same person. You two practically agree on everything that is going on here. Tell me who's off topic and I'll make that person doesn't do it again.

hey you jacoc316, smartie pants, you're ignoring me. so i'm guessing you won't answer my question?

AHAHAHA...and now you can't even distinguise us from one another...i must say...we must be using evil spells? hmm...funny...i wish i would have some magic on me right now...and you're the one who's going off topic...being on your defesive side you're bound to become the star of off topic-ness...which would suit you very well...


go ask a different christian instead...all you're gonna get from him is a answer that's inappropriate to your question for it will always be an answer that does not even answer your question because he'll only reply with, "are you serious about this question?" and then he would continue on with asking you a question about your question...trying to get answers from someone who TRUELY knows his religion would not work for he's stingy of sharing all the information that is locked inside his head

Sometimes I think you get more and more retarded, jacoc. Ha! You can’t even quote the correct person. Maybe god was talking to you at the time you were quoting? I would like to help you understand, but seems like you can’t process the information you receive. You’re not extroverted enough. You’re not keeping this thread interesting. You’re trying too hard to be funny—which makes you look less than dumb. Please don’t try to be something you’re not because you REALLY suck at it. I’m not saying that I’m good or anything; I’m just saying that you suck.


The story that you shared on this thread, does not remind me of how I got here today. Maybe that story only applies to you, but doesn’t apply to me. My parents cross the Mekong River and went through thick and thin so that their children will have better opportunities, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. Here’s my story:

My dad and my grandpa were two of the many boys and men that were drafted into the same war that Cher Moua’s brother was drafted into. My dad was only twelve years old at that time. The Hmong people were told that they would get their homeland back if they help the CIA win this battle. If they lose this battle, then they will take us—the Hmong people—to America, the land of opportunities. My dad and my grandpa, along with other Hmong folks, risked their lives, so that we—their children, can have better futures. The war left my dad with a bullet in his right leg, and one eye with no vision. He can’t see with his left eye anymore. When you look at his left eye, there is no distinct pupil. He said something like….maj tem (grenade?) tawg es kub nws los xyov yog li cas lawm ne * scratch head *…I can’t remember, but I’ll ask him whenever I go home…but anyhow…

Unfortunately, the Americans lost and so my dad, with other Hmong soldiers, were granted to come to America. My grandpa was in his late forties at that time so I would assume that he didn’t want his ways of life to change yet. I guess my grandpa wasn’t ready to leave his homeland, but ended up coming to America in '94. Anyhow, my dad accepted the ticket to America. He figured that after his two sisters got married and moved to America, they seem to be doing well in this land of opportunities, so he decided to move to America too.


Following his sisters, my dad brought us to America. I don’t have memories of this, but my mom says that when we were settled in America, some church people recruited us to their church. My dad thought going to church was the best idea for us. He thought that since we are living in America, we should change our ways of life to be like Americans. We went to church and tried to believe what the Americans believe. My mom wasn’t in the best health condition when we were in Thailand, and she came to America with an unchanged health condition. Anyhow, The recruiters of this one church (I’m just going to call them recruiters of the church, since they remind me of the Navy recruiters ) told my dad that if we went to church, then god will watch over us and my mom will suffer no more. Nearly after THREE years, my mom’s sickness seemed to worsen. My mom was hanging onto life by a thread. Praying to god wasn’t making us feel any better. Obviously, we quit going to church. We can't be something we're not and we can't depend on somone (god) who might not even exists.

I was only three years old at that time, but I remember watching my mom lying helplessly on the couch with her eyes closed. Her breathing was so soft that it almost didn’t look like she was breathing and her face was drained of color. My dad didn’t know what to do, so he called my 2 aunties. I can’t quite recall who dialed 9-1-1, but I remember the paramedics took my mom to the hospital at three in the morning. Mann, I swear I thought I was losing my mom. Anyhow, one of my Aunties