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Airagyy
In 1688 Zungarian chieftain and warlord Galdan Boshigt invaded Khalkh Mongolian and proceed to trash Erdene Zuu, Khögnö Tarnyn Khiid, and Saridgiin Khiid. Zanabazar, the First Bogd Gegeen of Mongolia and head of the Khalkh Mongols, was forced to flee southward to China. In 1690 news reached Beijing that Galdan Bolshigt had reached Khulun Nuur (Dalai Nuur) area in what is now Inner Mongolia and was proceeding southward along the Khalkh River. On July 26, 1690, Galdan’s army overran Qing outposts south of the Seyelki Mountains in what is now Inner Mongolia. To the emperor’s advisors in Beijing it now appeared as if the Zungarian upstart intended to actually march on Beijing. It was decided to sent two armies north to confront Galdan. First, however word was sent out to Galdan that Kangxi wished to met with him and negotiate a peace treaty. Hopefully this would slow down Galdan long enough to allow the armies to get in place and then administer the coup de grace.

General Fu-ch’uan (1653-1703) was chosen to lead one part of the Qing army. He was the second son of Emperor Shih-su; his mother a third-rank concubine from the Donggo clan. The half-brother of Kangxi, Fu-ch’uan had earlier been given him the title of Prince Yü by the emperor, and on August 6, 1690 Kangxi named him “Generalissimo for the Pacification of Distant Lands.” On August 10 Fu-ch’uan and his army left Beijing and proceeded north through Gubeikou Pass, seventy miles from Beijing, the first pass through the Lesser and Greater Jin Shan (Golden Mountains) near the Jinshanling Great Wall. Kangxi’s younger brother Ch’ang-ning was given command of another army and sent through another nearby pass. Kangxi himself accompanied one of these armies, it is not sure which, to the Great Wall, but soon became ill and had to return to Beijijng.

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Commemorative ovoo on the edge on the Ulaan Butong battlefield

Just south of the current-day town of Saihanba, on the edge of the Mulan Hunting Grounds, the forested ridges of northern Hebei end and with dramatically abrupt suddenness the terrain changes to the rolling, treeless steppes. Not coincidentally, here is also the current-day border between Hebei Province and Inner Mongolia. About ten miles north of the current border, on a broad flat expanse of steppe broken only by a conspicuous hill of reddist rock known as Ulaan Butong in Mongolian or Hong Shan in Chinese (Red Mountain, or in a more poetic rendering Red Urn), the two armies collided on September 3.

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Ulaan Butong, or the Red Urn, in the distance

The Qing had cannons, a relatively new innovation, and one which would have seemed to have given them unquestioned superiority. At two o’oclock in the afternoon the Qing army commenced firing their artillery. Across a broad swamp or lake the Mongols lined up their camels as barricades again the artillery and stood their ground, returning a heavy barrage of musket fire. Curiously, a French Jesuit in the Qing court by the name of Jean F. Gerbillon had accompanied the Qing army from Beijing and later gave an eye-witness account of the battle. Toward evening Qing Duke Tong Gougang was killed by Mongol musket fire in what must have been a devastating blow to the morale of the Qing army.

At night-fall the fighting ended and each army returned to their camp. There had been no clear victor, but nevertheless “Generalissimo” Fu-ch’uan sent a dispatch to Beijing claiming the Mongols had been decisively defeated. In fact, further engagements over the next day or two again ended with no clear victor. The tenacious Mongols simply refused to give up. In order to break the stalemate Fu-ch’uan called in a high-ranking lama to begin negotiations with Galdan. An agreement was reached whereby Galdan could return to Mongolia after swearing an oath to his “war-god” (perhaps a Tibeto-Mongolian Buddhist diety), that he would never again invade Qing territory. Thus ended the Battle of Ulaan Butang.

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Smaller ovoo on the battlefield itself

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Another view of Ulaan Butong


more on http://www.doncroner.com/blog.html
Anda
Very interesting

QUOTE(Airagyy @ May 8 2006, 05:20 AM) [snapback]1830512[/snapback]

Curiously, a French Jesuit in the Qing court by the name of Jean F. Gerbillon had accompanied the Qing army from Beijing and later gave an eye-witness account of the battle. Toward evening Qing Duke Tong Gougang was killed by Mongol musket fire in what must have been a devastating blow to the morale of the Qing army.


I wish to find this guy's eyewithness account-

Jean-François Gerbillon
Catholic Encyclopedia on CD-ROM
Contains 11,632 articles. Browse off-line, ad-free, printer-friendly.
Get it here for only $29.95

French missionary; born at Verdun, 4 June, 1654; died at Peking, China, 27 March, 1707. He entered the Society of Jesus, 5 Oct, 1670, and after completing the usual course of study taught grammar and humanities for seven years. His long-cherished desire to labour in the missions of the East was gratified in 1685, when he joined the band of Jesuits who had been chosen to found the French mission in China. Upon their arrival in Peking they were received by the emperor Kang-Hi who was favourable impressed by them and retained Gerbillion and Bouvet at the court. This famous monarch realized the value of the services which the fathers could render to him owing to their scientific attainments, and they on their part were glad in this way to win his favour and gain prestige in order to further the interests of the infant mission. As soon as they had learned the language of the country, Gerbillion with Pereyra, one of his companions, was sent as interpreter to Niptchou with the ambassadors commissioned to treat with the Russians regarding the boundaries of the two empires. This was but the beginning of his travels, during which he was often attached to the suite of the emperor. He made eight different journeys into Tatary. On one of these he was an eyewitness to the campaign in which Kang-Hi defeated the Eleuths. On his last journey he accompanied the three commissioners who regulated public affairs and established new laws among the Tatar-kalkas, who had yielded allegiance to the emperor. He availed himself of this opportunity to determine the latitude and longitude of a number of places in Tatary. Gerbillion was for a time in charge of the French college in Peking, and afterwards became superior-general of the mission. He enjoyed the special friendship and esteem of the emperor, who had a high opinion of his ability and frequently availed himself of his scientific and diplomatic services. He was withal a zealous missionary, and in 1692 obtained an edict granting the free exercise of the Christian religion. After the emperor's recovery from a fever, during which he was attended by Gerbillion and Bouvet, he showed his gratitude by bestowing on them a site for a chapel and residence. Gerbillion was a skilled linguist. He was the author of several works on mathematics, and wrote an account of his travels in Tatary. These relations are valuable for their accurate account of the typography of the country, the customs of the people, and also for the details of life of the missionaries at the court. Among his works are "Eléments de Géométrie" (1689), "Géométrie pratique et théoretique" (1690), "Eléments de philosphie". "Relations du huit Voyages dans la Grande Tartarie". A work entitled "Elementa Linguæ Tartaricæ" is also attributed to him.
danoc
thx you both..

it is very informative..


-
Anda
QUOTE(danoc @ May 8 2006, 10:50 AM) [snapback]1831281[/snapback]

thx you both..

it is very informative..
-


There are many little pieces of Information from WIKi


In 1696, the Kangxi Emperor himself led the campaign against the Galdan Boshigt Khaan.

This is very fact that only one time Emporer himself led the army. There must be lots of documents/ chinese source about this event.


Story goes like that:-

-At this time the Khalkha Mongols preserved their independence and only paid tribute to the Manchu Empire. A conflict between the Houses of Jasaghtu Khan and Tösheetü Khan led another dispute between the Khalkha and the Dzungar Mongols over influence over Tibetan Buddhism.

In 1688 Galdan, the Zuungar Khaan, invaded and occupied the Khalkha homeland. The Khalkha royal families and the first Jebtsundamba Khutughtu crossed the Gobi Desert, sought help from the Qing Dynasty and, as a result, submitted to the Qing.
In 1690, the Zuungar Oirad Mongols and the Manchu Empire clashed at the battle of Ulaan Budan in Inner Mongolia, during which the Qing army was severely mauled by Galdan.

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In 1696, the Kangxi Emperor himself led the campaign against the Zungars. The Western section of the Qing army crushed Galdan's army at the Battle of Dsuunmod and Galdan died in the next year. The Zungars continued to threaten China


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-In den Jahren 1690-1696 kam es zum Krieg mit den Oiraten, welche die Mongolei kontrollieren wollten. Als der Khan der Kalkha-Mongolen 1690 geschlagen wurde, ersuchten die Fürsten Kangxi um Hilfe. (Sie standen vor der Wahl, ob Russland oder China - und man entschied sich für China, denn man hatte mit den Mandschu den Lamaismus gemeinsam, und konnte somit von der Seite mehr Verständnis erwarten.)

Kangxi unterstützte die Mongolen und führte das Heer zweimal persönlich gegen den Oiratenfürsten Galdan.

Obwohl der Krieg durch den schnellen Überfall an der Tuul bei Zuunmod entschieden wurde ist bemerkenswert, dass Kangxi dank der Jesuiten die Regeln europäischer Kriegsführung beachtete. Seine Armee benutzte 1690 und 1696 Kanonen und Musketen, denen die Oiraten nicht gewachsen waren.

Zuunmod - 1696 besiegten hier Truppen des chinesischen Kaisers Kangxi und der Chalcha die Dsungaren unter Galdan Khan. Galdan Khans Ehefrau wurde getötet, und Galdan beging kurze Zeit später Selbstmord.

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In Mongolia we have Anu Khatanii Domog ( Legend of Queen Anu) . It is about queen of Galdan Boshigt Khan. Anu Khatan died in fighting in battle of Zuun Mod (Tereljiin Zuun Mod) ( ZHaoModa) .

Also in this german text "Galdan beging kurze Zeit später Selbstmord". Did Galdan died of suicide? I doubt it...


I would like to know more about battle of Zuun Mod (Zhao Modu) . Probably the same jezuits built big canon, commandeered them against Oirats. Emporer Kangxi was very happy about their services. There must be lots of documents in Mongolian and Chinese sources.
danoc
oh.. manchu were lamaistic?

i think they were mostly daoistic-shamanistic and confuzian..

(i know that manchu have used lamaism for better asimilation of nomad mongols into their empire)

hehe.. that is funny..

manchu have won because they have used european war tactics, weapons and catholic christian as advisors.

QUOTE
Did Galdan died of suicide? I doubt it...


that can be.. it was better as chinese torture and exsecution.

he was powerless and his old enemies were behind him. (his nephew)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oiraten#Aufsp...n_und_Untergang

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...lmykia_1720.jpg < time after khalka-mongols were split from oirats.
Фрагмент карты Российской Империи Петра Великого, составленной пленными шведскими офицерами приблизительно в 1720-1725 годах. Среди окружающих Россию государств зелёным цветом выделено Калмыцкое государство, называемое некоторыми историками Джунгарским ханством.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B6%...%82%D0%B2%D0%BE

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map of central asia 1720-1725

Zuungar-Oirad Mongols (or: Dshungar) after dead of Galdan and in a time of Tsewangrabtan rule.(nehpew of Galdan)

Kalmyks (Torghuud-Oirad) were in that time in Russian Empire (kalmykia))

btw. kasakh were splited in that time into 2 nations.

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MING-LOYALIST
There is a mainland TV Drama series called <康熙王朝> "Kangxi dynasty", its about life of Kangxi, involving getting rid of regent Oboi, fighting the Dzungars, pacifying the three feudatories, assualting Taiwan's Ming loyalists, its more dramatic then real history.

This is also dubbed in Mongolian because when I was in China I saw it on the Inner Mongolia Mongolian language channel as well.

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Anda
Interesting pictures. I recognise some of actress who played in chinese movie "Chinggis Khaan"


Anda
QUOTE(danoc @ May 8 2006, 01:27 PM) [snapback]1831662[/snapback]

oh.. manchu were lamaistic?

i think they were mostly daoistic-shamanistic and confuzian..

(i know that manchu have used lamaism for better asimilation of nomad mongols into their empire)

hehe.. that is funny..



Manchus were supposedly Lamaists. But i think they were more of pragmatic or opportunists. Manchus used Tibetan Lamaism and Dalai lamas so effectively to pcify Mongols. After All Mongols real enemies were Mongols themselves.

Since Khubilai illegaly took throne of Great Khaan, descendants of Chinggis Khaan felt free to fight each other. Arikgbukha against Khubilai, Berke against Hulagu and so on. Tsagatai or Altan orda or Timurides destroyed each other. Internal power struggle reduced Mongolia into survival level, It is not only because China or Russia were so strong...

Since Yuan kicked out of Beijing, Chinggisid Mongols of East and Centrl Mongolia had deep struggle against non-Chinggisid Mongols of Oirads. Although Oirad Mongols grew strong enough to become Zuungar Khaant Ulus ( Zuungar Kingdom), Eastern Mongols never recognised their supremacy due to their arrogant attitude of being Chinggiside.

Poor Galdan Boshigt Khaan also never become real recognised/ all agreed Khaan of Oirads.
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Oirads also struggled among themselves.


QUOTE

manchu have won because they have used european war tactics, weapons and catholic christian as advisors.
that can be.. it was better as chinese torture and exseche]

He was powerless and his old enemies were behind him. (his nephew)


His nephew Tseweenravdan took the throne while he is figthing in Khalkha Mongolia. For Tseveenravdan Manchus were not the enemies he started fighting for Tibet or In kazakhs against Russians.
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Also Tibetans and Manchus played their game.

danoc
QUOTE
Manchus were supposedly Lamaists. But i think they were more of pragmatic or opportunists.


agree.. they have used "manchunisation" and later cinization for get more control about chinese ethnics.

and have called themselves as "mogol-tibetian-aristocrathy" in tibet and mongolia for get control about them.

i think modern chinese have learn many from them.

btw. i think that this oportunism were a that why their empire was later defacto destroed by forign forces.

QUOTE
His nephew Tseweenravdan took the throne while he is figthing in Khalkha Mongolia. For Tseveenravdan Manchus were not the enemies he started fighting for Tibet or In kazakhs against Russians.


jup.. in that time have begun russians to expand into south.
kasakh-kirgiz aristocrathy (their queen) bacame later allie with russian empire.

QUOTE
Eastern Mongols never recognised their supremacy due to their arrogant attitude of being Chinggiside.


hehe.. every nation needs his own hero.

biggthumpup.gif
GokTurk
QUOTE(danoc @ May 9 2006, 03:04 AM) [snapback]1833499[/snapback]

agree.. they have used "manchunisation" and later cinization for get more control about chinese ethnics.

and have called themselves as "mogol-tibetian-aristocrathy" in tibet and mongolia for get control about them.

i think modern chinese have learn many from them.

btw. i think that this oportunism were a that why their empire was later defacto destroed by forign forces.
jup.. in that time have begun russians to expand into south.
kasakh-kirgiz aristocrathy (their queen) bacame later allie with russian empire.
hehe.. every nation needs his own hero.

biggthumpup.gif


WTF??? Akaev, again is posting false info.

They didn't have a Queen, but a Khan (King), who signed the treaty with Russians. His name was Abul Mansur, diminitive Ablai. He was a Kazakh khan and he ruled some Kyrgyz and Ozbek tribes as well, the descendant of Toka Temir-youngest son of Jochi khan. It is mostly due to him and his diplomacy all Kazakh Hordes united and won over Oirats. He is buried in Turkestan province of Kazakhstan near Khodja Ahmet Yasawi Mausoleum. There are also royal burials of Tamerlains' granddaugther Rabia Sultan Begim, AbulKhair khan, Djangir khan and Esim khan.



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danoc
ABULKHAIR-KHAN(1693-1748)

Was a Kazakh khan, diplomat, general and statesman. During a period of struggle against Jungar agression, Abulkhair emerged as an organizer of a united Kazakh militia and proved to be a gifted commander. Under his leadership the Kazakh militia won an historic victory over the Jungars, defeating them in a battle on the Bulanty river in 1726 and in the battle of Anrakay in 1729. As a result, Jungar agression on Kazakh soil was brought to an end. As a far-sighted politician Abulkhair, under conditions of constant foreign threat from the Chinese empire, Russia and the Jungars, chose protection from the Russian empire in order to preserve the Kazakh State. On 10 October, 1731, together with representatives of the Kazakh nobility, Abulkhair signed a legal act on the joining of the Kazakhs of the Minor Horde (Kazakh "zhuz", or "one hundred") to Russia. Later on Abulkhair-khan's activity was directed at preserving Kazakh statehood and limiting the colonial claims of the Russian empire. Abulkhair's name was entered in the history of the Kazakh nation as an outstanding statesman.
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В середине XVII века на Казахское ханство с востока начались набеги правителей джунгаров, воспользовавшихся внутренними распрями казахских султанов. Первая битва между казахским войском и армией джунгаров произошло 1635 году при хане Жангире, когда Жангир проиграл битву и попал в плен, с которого потом сбежал. Вторая битва произошла в 1643 году. Жангир услышав, что джунгарский Хунтайчи захватил часть Семиречья и пленил 10 тысяч Алатауских киргизов, отправился с отрядом из 600 людей. Жангир в узком проходе гор устроил засаду и внезапно напал на джунгарское войско, к концу сражения подоспела поддержка правителя Самарканда Жалантос батыра с 20-тысячной армией. В этом бою с джунгарской стороны погибло 10 тысяч людей. Казахское ханство вплоть до смерти хана Тауке 1718 году сдерживала натиск джунгарских завоевателей. В начале XVIII века в государстве казахов начались распри между представителями степной аристократии, что привело к ослаблению ханства. Казахское ханство разделилось на три Жуза (Орды), которыми правили свои ханы. Этим воспользовались джунгарские ханы, начавшие 1723 году завоевание территории Казахского ханства. Начался процесс дезинтеграции и упадка, завершившийся вхождением страны в состав Российской империи.


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for idiot gokturk:

i have talked a many time later after Oirats rule in Kasakhstan.
after dead of Jangher Khan.

one more. did you not sabotage my topic about kasakhstan, could we have now a place for talk about kasakhstan.

thanks you $hithead, for destroy of my topic about kasakhstan and their people.

good luck in ignore you idiot.
GokTurk
QUOTE(danoc @ May 10 2006, 01:47 AM) [snapback]1836683[/snapback]

ABULKHAIR-KHAN(1693-1748)

Was a Kazakh khan, diplomat, general and statesman. During a period of struggle against Jungar agression, Abulkhair emerged as an organizer of a united Kazakh militia and proved to be a gifted commander. Under his leadership the Kazakh militia won an historic victory over the Jungars, defeating them in a battle on the Bulanty river in 1726 and in the battle of Anrakay in 1729. As a result, Jungar agression on Kazakh soil was brought to an end. As a far-sighted politician Abulkhair, under conditions of constant foreign threat from the Chinese empire, Russia and the Jungars, chose protection from the Russian empire in order to preserve the Kazakh State. On 10 October, 1731, together with representatives of the Kazakh nobility, Abulkhair signed a legal act on the joining of the Kazakhs of the Minor Horde (Kazakh "zhuz", or "one hundred") to Russia. Later on Abulkhair-khan's activity was directed at preserving Kazakh statehood and limiting the colonial claims of the Russian empire. Abulkhair's name was entered in the history of the Kazakh nation as an outstanding statesman.
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gokturck you stupid stupid idiot..

that he was descant of timur is only fairy tall $hit stories.

Ablai-khan was a last "all dshuss" khan wich have used russian forts in north and middle kasakhstan and their help for beat oirats invasation army.
(russian don- and semireshje-kosaks have fought with him against oirats in kasakhstan)

(and dont make him into turkish, he was kasakh)

and i have talking about much time later after Oirats rule in kasakhstan.

Kasakh had a queen(after dead of Jangher Khan) wich have gived officialy middle dschuss into russian empire again. before that were 3 kasakh-kirgiz dshus's only "friendly state" (defacto independent vasal) of russian empire.

after dead of Jangher Khan did ruled governeur Naumann about Bugai horde, and with a time acsepted middle dshuss(with their queen) russian rule and gived their indepence on russian empire. short time later after a colapse of their statesystems were other kasakh-kirgiz dshuss under russian control (1876).

(tshihan walikhanow was her uncle)

leanr fisrt history you turk-nazi idiot and then blame you here.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasachen-Khanat

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buqai-Horde

one more. did you not sabotage my topic about kasakhstan, could we have now a place for talk about kasakhstan.

thanks you $hithead, for destroy of my topic about kasakhstan and their people.

good luck in ignore you idiot.


Achtung, Akaev and Wikepedia is a dangerous combination. I thought you are honestly ignoring my posts, Akaev.

Did you run DNA test on Ablai Khan to disproof his own claims to be a descedant of Jochi?

What was the name of the "Kaskah" queen? It was Ablai who signed the official treaty with Russia, not some mysterious Queen.

There is no mistakes in my info, but your information is full of holes.
danoc

for idiot gokturk:

i have talked a many time later after Oirats rule in Kasakhstan.
after dead of Jangher Khan.

one more. did you not sabotage my topic about kasakhstan, could we have now a place for talk about kasakhstan.

thanks you $hithead, for destroy of my topic about kasakhstan and their people.

good luck in ignore you idiot.
GokTurk
QUOTE(danoc @ May 10 2006, 02:26 AM) [snapback]1836767[/snapback]

for idiot gokturk:

i have talked a many time later after Oirats rule in Kasakhstan.
after dead of Jangher Khan.

one more. did you not sabotage my topic about kasakhstan, could we have now a place for talk about kasakhstan.

thanks you $hithead, for destroy of my topic about kasakhstan and their people.

good luck in ignore you idiot.


You didn't post dates or indicated it. Where is the name of the Queen, Akaev?

I speak where I want and what I want. Your threads deserved to be deleted because they were misleading and full of errors. You should try to open threads in German forums, where your spelling might work.
Bitterlemon
QUOTE(Anda @ May 9 2006, 04:05 AM) [snapback]1831592[/snapback]

...

In Mongolia we have Anu Khatanii Domog ( Legend of Queen Anu) . It is about queen of Galdan Boshigt Khan. Anu Khatan died in fighting in battle of Zuun Mod (Tereljiin Zuun Mod) ( ZHaoModa) .
...


Yes, queen Anu died in Zuun Mod battles, so she could save her husband and son bawling.gif . U read that book "Manan budan" about Galdan? Was Galdantseren Anu & Galdan's son? Or was it Sedbal? Totally forgot everything confused.gif
danoc
QUOTE(GokTurk @ May 10 2006, 01:34 AM) [snapback]1836787[/snapback]

You didn't post dates or indicated it. Where is the name of the Queen, Akaev?

I speak where I want and what I want. Your threads deserved to be deleted because they were misleading and full of errors. You should try to open threads in German forums, where your spelling might work.


dont call me akajiev you son fo donkey.

you speack here, what a topic want and what a mod do allow.

my thereads were not full of errors. it was your atack against it and your big crying on jasel pm adress.

you idiot have sabotage my topic.

go away and close you nazi head here.

-
GokTurk
QUOTE(danoc @ May 10 2006, 02:40 AM) [snapback]1836799[/snapback]

dont call me akajiev you son fo donkey.

you speack here, what a topic want and what a mod do allow.

my thereads were not full of errors. it was your atack against it and your big crying on jasel pm adress.

you idiot have sabotage my topic.

go away and close you nazi head here.

-


You are the one, who cried about being called Akaev. Your threads are always full of mistakes, misspells, cursing and emotional break down. Still no name of the Queen.
danoc
i think i left this forum..

it is useless here..

a mod do nothing against this idiot and my topic were closed ..

i dont think that this forum is realy objective..

good look.

perhaps i come some time back.

but not so long a gokturk are here.

biggthumpup.gif

ps. a Queen was Againim(Айганым), widow of Wali-khan(Вали хан) (last kahn of middle dshuss).
Bitterlemon
QUOTE(danoc @ May 10 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]1836828[/snapback]

i think i left this forum..

it is useless here..

a mod do nothing against this idiot and my topic were closed ..

i dont think that this forum is realy objective..

good look.

perhaps i come some time back.

but not so long a gokturk are here.

biggthumpup.gif



Come on danoc, dun be silly, GokTurk will not call you Akaev again. Please stay here bawling.gif
Now u r happy? icon_wink.gif
GokTurk
QUOTE(danoc @ May 10 2006, 02:53 AM) [snapback]1836828[/snapback]

i think i left this forum..

it is useless here..

a mod do nothing against this idiot and my topic were closed ..

i dont think that this forum is realy objective..

good look.

perhaps i come some time back.

but not so long a gokturk are here.

biggthumpup.gif

ps. a Queen was Againim(Айганым), widow of Wali-khan(Вали хан) (last kahn of middle dshuss).


So long then. Less mistakes for everyone.

You are the one who is a Drama Queen, not Aiganym. She was never an official Queen, or Queen at all, she was a second wife of Wali khan. It was not really up to her to sign any treaties or influence the history. She was a petition woman. By this time she had no choice but to be friendly with Russia. Everything was pretty much over in her prime years 1810-1850.

You cannot compare her, though noble activity with real diplomacy in the war with Oirats.
QUOTE
(tshihan walikhanow was her uncle)


He was her grandson...

Another empty statement from Akaev.
TeNGRiKuT
would someone stop danoc??? he always swearing!! thumbsdown.gif



danoc, do you really think yaht you know something thumbsdown.gif you just know some gossips, thothing else.... and you should be kind. just you are talking rudely.
Bitterlemon
Oops! We are living in one little blue world, why treating each other like this??? confused.gif
GokTurk
QUOTE(Bitterlemon @ May 10 2006, 06:31 AM) [snapback]1837260[/snapback]

Oops! We are living in one little blue world, why treating each other like this??? confused.gif


I know, I know. Noone treated him badly. Some people are too touchy. I hope it is over.
Subedey
There are some great historical novels on Galdan and the Zuungars in Mongolian. I believe Zurkhny Khilen, Manan Budan are the prime ones, though I might be wrong. Too bad I can't find English translations...Perhaps we should rather translate some parts of it than follow petty quarrels.
danoc
at:TeNGRiKuT

learn fisrts to write good german in your signature.

and then tell me what i dont know, you "great" turkish warior..

that stupid gokturk dont know what a $hit he do tell others here.

most of his talking are only from wikipedia or other sites wich where publicated by me and others here, perverterd by his nazi views.

he thinks that if he make flaming statements here and make asia into turanian empire everyone do forgot his own identity and life and do belive his stupid propaganda and arrogant atack against people of central asia.


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toki
maybe i should pin the forum guidelines in here because it seems people don't know..

personal attacks ARE against the rules. having an argument on certain topics on history are allowed as long as it doesn't get racist. i can't warn anybody for "not having the thread go the way they wanted". and danoc you kept saying how i wasn't doing anything on gokturk. geesh. i can't go away from this forum for one day? =_=
Subedey
^Poor thing...Someone help this one...
toki
no need. just get back on topic. no more useless whining in this thread.
TeNGRiKuT
QUOTE(danoc @ May 10 2006, 05:19 PM) [snapback]1837650[/snapback]



most of his talking are only from wikipedia or other sites wich where publicated by me and others here, perverterd by his nazi views.



that's why there are soo many mistakes in wikipedia....
Buzava
Is that actually a portrait of Galdan Khan? I didn't realize there existed paintings of Oirat/Dzungar leaders. Who painted it and when? Are there any other portraits of great Oirat/Dzungar leaders?

Btw, Galdan Khan had a son, Sempten, who was turned over to the Manchu. He lived out his life in Peking, sort of like what the Communist Chinese government is doing now with the Panchen Lama.

Galdan Khan is also a direct descendant of Esen Tayishi.

One last thing: The map incorporates the Khoshot Khanate in the Dzungar Empire. So, at one point in time, we actually had three separate empires: Kalmyk Khanate, Dzungar Empire and Khoshot Khanate.
GokTurk
Trailer of movie about Jungars and Kazakhs.

Unfortunately I have not seen the movie.

Prototype of a main character is a real historical figure Ablay khan, who ironically himself was a descendant of Jochi khan. His paternal bloodline comes from the youngest son of Jochi, but his maternal lineage is Turkic. He considered himself a Kazakh.

Nomad

The actor in the movie looks suspiciously white for a descendant of Mongol and for a nomadic Turk.

3-D forensic reconstruction of Ablay (his remains were exhumed, as well as Tamerlans' for forensic
analysis)

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