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michinobu_zoned
The questions I have for everybody are, will the GreenPeace terrorists go Jihad-crazy? Will the whaling industry start using guns on the Sea Sheppard and GreenPeace activists? Will the Japanese be forced to use military intevention to solve the issue? And, will New Zealand punk out and end up looking like a bunch of pussies, unable to police their own waters?

QUOTE
Southern Ocean Whaling Conflict Implications
Paul G. Buchanan

Skirmishes between anti-whaling activists and the Japanese whaling fleet conducting purported scientific culling of minke and finback whales in the Southern Ocean nature sanctuary have led to calls for military intervention on both sides. The Japanese Whaling Commission has asked that warships from Canada and the Netherlands, home ports of the Greenpeace and Sea Shepard anti-whaling boats, be sent to the southern ocean to reign in their wayward vessels, and would like to see Japanese Maritime Patrol aircraft (mostly P3s like the RNZAF Orions, but with better telemetry and avionics) patrol the conflict zone. These planes are designed for anti-submarine as well as surface patrol operations, so they are armed with depth charges and torpedoes. This technically makes them military aircraft, especially if rationales of self-defence are the justification for the deployment. Since P3s do not have the range to travel to and from the Southern Ocean and Japan, a refuelling station will be needed along the way. There are many possible sites.

Greenpeace and the Sea Shepard Society comprise the anti-whaling flotilla. Incessantly dogging the whaling fleet and linked directly to global media outlets, they provide vivid coverage, commentary and uncompromising opposition to the commercial or scientific culling of all whales. They accuse the whalers of repeated violations of the scientific research quota both in terms of species and numbers of whales killed, and claim that it is only their presence that prevents more egregious violations from happening. The Japanese public relations response consists of lame (“Greenpeace deceives you,” “scientific research”) signs attached to their processing boats and official accusations that anti-whaling activists are among other things “dangerous vegans” and “circus performers.”

Whether consciously or not both sides are practicing a variant of the “moderate-militant” bargaining strategy. The original version of the moderate-militant strategy is simple. Be it in collective wage bargaining or party coalition talks, competing groups making militant demands—and often act outrageously—in order to create space for the acceptance of more moderate demands. Labour unions demand wage increases beyond profitability levels, business threatens lay-offs, lock out and shut downs. Yet both seek compromise. North Korea and Iran play nuclear brinkmanship, but their real strategic goals likely fall short of nuclear war. The idea is to stake out an impossible claim, show the ability to back it up with action, and then negotiate inwards towards a mutually achievable objective with an opponent.

The situation of the whalers and anti-whalers is slightly different. Both are trying to sway the court of world opinion, but the internal logic rest on how far each side is prepared to go in pursuit of its objectives. Thus, the whalers agreed to halt commercial activities in the whale sanctuary only after agreement was reached on the so-called scientific harvest of selected whale species for “research.” Had no such agreement been reached, Japan threatened to resume commercial whaling in the preserve (as its militant option). For its part, Sea Shepard plays the role of “crazy” militant to Greenpeace’s non-violent protests, thereby creating space in which Greenpeace’s actions appear more reasonable to the general public. What is different is that both sides see the situation as a zero sum game: the anti-whaling coalition wants all commercial and scientific whaling banned, with no compromise possible. They have shown the will and ability to drive that point home. For its part Japan wants to use its scientific research programme to open the door to (limited) commercial whaling once it has proved that whale stocks in the sanctuary are sustainable with restricted seasonal hunting. It wants Greenpeace and Sea Shepard barred from interfering with its operations.

Greenpeace started the most recent physical confrontation by sending inflatable boats to obstruct the scientific whale hunt and cull of 900 minkes and 50 finned whales. The whalers responded with high-pressure water hoses directed from distance at the inflatable boat crews, and 3 meter staving poles used against boats and crew once they were within reach of whaling ships (which caused several injuries to inflatable crew members). Greenpeace claims that another tactic used by the whalers is to fire harpoons at close range above the heads of the inflatable boat crews. In response, its two mother ships, the Artic Sunrise and Esperanza, have closed on the whalers, resulting in at least one collision.

The Farley Mowat, a Sea Shepard vessel, has adopted a more militant approach. Seeing itself as a predator on whalers, it has harassed, then deliberately rammed a whaler supply ship in order crease its hull with an improvised “can cutter” device. The can cutter is a sharpened metal projection from the bow of the Farley Mowat that is vertically located about mid-hull on a typical Japanese factory ship or tanker. It has superficial cutting depth, but its threat is implicit. Deployed higher or lower, strengthened or lengthened, the can cutter has potentially lethal applications. The whalers have responded to this upped ante by calling for the foreign warships and Japanese government protection in the form of the Maritime Patrol. This militarises the conflict.

Greenpeace has urged the Australian government to deny landing rights if such eventuality became fact, and New Zealand (in spite of its concern about the potentially detrimental effect it would have on Japanese-New Zealand trade), would have to do the same for domestic political purposes, if not principle. Yet there are other island nations in the South Pacific that may be less inclined to deny the Japanese transit rights, especially if there is some benefit to be obtained by the deal. Neither the Canadians nor Dutch appear too keen to intervene in the matter, and do not have the military resources to do so in any event.

Physically closest to the action, the New Zealand government has sent Orions to survey the whaling fleet. It has refused to send a frigate in order to impose its own military presence on the belligerents. It claims that it does not have a dog in this fight. This may be due to the fact that, although opposed to whaling, New Zealand has no jurisdiction in the Southern Ocean whale sanctuary and the dispute is between private parties. It could also be due to the fact that with very limited resources and commitments to international maritime patrol duties elsewhere, the RNZN simply is incapable of projecting force in the Southern Ocean. Whatever the specific reason (or combination), the New Zealand government is using legal technicalities to justify its military inaction. Instead, it prefers to work through the tried and true diplomatic channels that produced this standoff on the high seas.

The New Zealand response is problematic for several reasons. Like it or not, this increasingly violent dispute is a political issue foremost, and governments are already involved. Not only is the scientific whaling project funded in part by the Japanese government, and the New Zealand government wholly opposed to it. The call for maritime patrol assets is a deliberate appeal for Japanese military intervention. To allow that to occur would set an unpleasant precedent that would erode New Zealand’s international reputation, that of its defence forces, and its already limited physical sovereignty. It would have implications for the exploitation of Antarctica. It is therefore incumbent, as a matter of principle, that New Zealand oppose the deployment of any Japanese military forces in defence of its whalers, regardless of adverse trade consequences and the Japanese right under international law to use military force in defence of economic and scientific interests at sea.

Another, equally important reason is that, the way things are going, the confrontation between the whalers and environmentalists is headed towards a possible human tragedy (above and beyond the tragedy of the whales). With physical confrontations escalating, the potential for loss of life at sea has dramatically increased. For no other reason than its ability to conduct search and rescue operations if needed, the RNZN would be wise to station an vessel capable of serving as a platform for such operations in the vicinity of the whaling fleet. The whalers are easy to find and the RNZN need not intervene in the dispute. All it has to do is shadow and be in close proximity in the event things go south and an unfortunate incident occurs. Being on station in the area will also allow it to monitor the activities of both whalers and anti-whalers for signs of illegality under the laws of the sea and conventions regarding scientific whaling. That may not guarantee the safety of potential human victims, but it would show determination to use military assets for humanitarian purposes and in upholding international law regardless of the specifics of the dispute.

Deploying air and naval assets to monitor events and provide search and rescue cover whilst the whaling confrontation is ongoing, New Zealand would enhance its international reputation as a fair player. As it is, pressure is mounting on the Howard government to consider its own military options in this affair, and Australia certainly has the military assets to project force in the whale sanctuary. It may be reluctant to do so, but if the confrontation turns to violence and the Japanese deploy military assets southward, it will be compelled to do so in the absence of a New Zealand response. That will invite more suggestion that New Zealand, rather than taking the adsobvious lead on the issue of a local military intervention as a matter of principle, once again shirked its neighbourly and international obligations. Absent more decisive action than diplomatic protests, New Zealand loses in international stature and reputation. It is seen as a country of political and diplomatic talkers, not doers, incapable of forcefully reacting to contentious issues within in its own sphere of (geographic and diplomatic) interest. Among the most vocal anti-whaling nations, it will have been shown to be a paper tiger of the seas, unwilling or incapable of peacefully projecting force of its own volition, for its own self-defined reasons, in defence of a common good. Perhaps in the end necessities of trade with large whaling nations overwhelm matters of conscience for this small island state, and it has a legal foundation to justify its non-response, but in terms of geopolitical realities, military inaction in the whaling dispute will invite more challenges to matters of vital foreign policy interest.

If the boats capable of serving as search and rescue and monitoring platforms are in dry dock, being retrofitted, otherwise out of commission or deployed for the duration of the scientific whaling season out of reach of the whale sanctuary, the point is moot. If the government has the assets but not the inclination to deploy them, New Zealand’s political will is in question. In either instance it will take especially skilful—and heretofore unseen--diplomacy to prevent the whaling conflict from becoming one in which the blood in the water comes from humans as well as whales.

source:http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0601/S00084.htm

What sort of weaponry do the eco-terrorists have?
IPB ImageIPB Image
Improvised can-opener weapon system. Capable of tearing holes in ships.

What are GreenPeace/Sea Sheppard activists up against?
IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image
Long-range, harpoon missles, capable of tearing holes in both whales and people from very far distances.

IPB Image
AGM-84 Harpoon, a harpoon that is capable of taking down boats, comes equipped on the P-3 Orion.

IPB Image
Standoff Land Attack Missile, based on the same technology of the AGM-84 Harpoon, also comes with a P-3 Orion.

IPB Image
P3 Orion, big scary planes with weapons that can tear holes in countries.
Suijen
...

Where do they get these things from?
kunomchu
They should lay off the whales.
Suijen
Why is this even an issue?
CJK
It's a big issue right now.

Japan's trying to increase their whaling quota while paying off small, shady island nations for support to make their case at the IWC.
Suijen
Are whales endangenered?
kunomchu
Japan targets 'endangered' whales

Four Japanese whaling vessels have set out on an expedition which will target a whale species environmentalists say is in danger of extinction.

The Japanese Government says it plans to kill 260 whales - a substantial increase on last year's catch - in the name of scientific research.

The hunt comes weeks after Japan failed to get a commercial whaling ban lifted at a meeting of the International Whaling Commission (IWC).

Opponents say Japan's research programme is really commercial whaling in disguise, because the government sells the whale meat to restaurants and supermarkets to pay for the project.

In all, five vessels will hunt the whales in the north-west Pacific over the next three months.

The first ships left the south-west Japanese city of Shimonoseki on Friday and Saturday, and will be followed by a final ship on 14 July.

Endangered species

This year's hunt will include the sei species of whale, which has remained untouched for the past 26 years.

The United States lists the pointed-snout sei whale as endangered, but Japan says the species has swelled from 9,000 in 1978 to about 28,000.

"Sei whales are much larger than other whales, such as the minkes, and eat more fish," said Takanori Nagatomo of the Japanese Fisheries Agency.

"It is impossible to know their impact on the marine environment without knowing how much, and what, they eat," he said.

Japan blames the whales' huge consumption of fish for a 50% drop in fish catches over the past 20 years.

Washington has in the past threatened sanctions over the expansion of Japan's whaling programme, but Japan remains defiant, accusing its critics of hypocrisy and insisting there are enough stocks for a return to controlled commercial whaling.

Research disputed

Japan says its research programme is necessary to chart the whales' behaviour and diet.

The project costs about $37m a year and is partly financed by selling the whales' meat, which is considered a delicacy in Japan.

"Even though they call it research whaling, it's really commercial whaling," said Motoji Nagasawa, from Greenpeace in Japan.

"They have to expand it in order to keep the prices for whale meat down," he said.

Japan's research programme is permitted by the IWC, which banned commercial whaling in 1986 in order to protect endangered species.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2073462.stm
chilli21
QUOTE(Suijen @ Jun 20 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]1970784[/snapback]

Are whales endangenered?


right now, i don't think so but depends on which species but maybe they will all be endangered one day.
CJK
Many species are, but not all.

Japan wants to increase the quotas on species that are not endangered in the name of science.

It's good that theyre not endangered, but these whales are largely caught for human consumption.
Suijen
As are crabs.

If they're not endangered, throw them to the skillet then.
Jarhier
let's see some fireworks
Lan2z
QUOTE(CJK @ Jun 20 2006, 02:07 AM) [snapback]1970807[/snapback]

Many species are, but not all.

Japan wants to increase the quotas on species that are not endangered in the name of science.


Japan wants more than the scam of "science". They and their pro whaling allies have resolved to return to commercial hunting.

They don't have enough fish to eat... blaming the whales for depleting the ocean of fish.
michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(CJK @ Jun 20 2006, 01:59 AM) [snapback]1970772[/snapback]

It's a big issue right now.

Japan's trying to increase their whaling quota while paying off small, shady island nations for support to make their case at the IWC.

Not entirely so, Western Nations like Norway are also in the whaling industry. However, many European nations have reports of people dying from eating whale meat, and babies being born deformed, because whale meat is toxic from the pollutants in the ocean. Japanese scientists are aware of this aswell, and have found that samples taken from grocery stores contain enough mercury to kill a human being.

But, the reason why Japan is targeted in the issue is that it's the leader in the pro-whale-hunting agenda. However, Japan is willing to compromise but people like Greenpeace and Sea Shephard don't want to give the Japanese any middle ground and are even willing to fight whaling ships, thus causing the whaling industry to use military intervention.

It's just funny to me that this is what a modern-day harpoon. IPB Image

Looks like an anti-ship missle. But, I guess that makes sense since in books like Moby d!ck, you see that hunting whales is quite dangerous using those old methods. Big @$$ animals capable of pulling big boats underwater shouldn't be attacked with nothing less I supposse.
BigBenChow
One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...
CJK
QUOTE(michinobu_zoned @ Jun 20 2006, 09:38 AM) [snapback]1972060[/snapback]

Not entirely so, Western Nations like Norway are also in the whaling industry. However, many European nations have reports of people dying from eating whale meat, and babies being born deformed, because whale meat is toxic from the pollutants in the ocean. Japanese scientists are aware of this aswell, and have found that samples taken from grocery stores contain enough mercury to kill a human being.

But, the reason why Japan is targeted in the issue is that it's the leader in the pro-whale-hunting agenda. However, Japan is willing to compromise but people like Greenpeace and Sea Shephard don't want to give the Japanese any middle ground and are even willing to fight whaling ships, thus causing the whaling industry to use military intervention.

It's just funny to me that this is what a modern-day harpoon. IPB Image

Looks like an anti-ship missle. But, I guess that makes sense since in books like Moby d!ck, you see that hunting whales is quite dangerous using those old methods. Big @$$ animals capable of pulling big boats underwater shouldn't be attacked with nothing less I supposse.


Are you sure whalers use those missiles to kill whales?!

Ive heard of conventional harpoons with explosives. Once the harpoon pierces the skin of the whale a detonation occurs. Greenpeace is against the use of these inhumane tools since it usually takes a couple hours to 10 hours for the beast to die.
michinobu_zoned
QUOTE(CJK @ Jun 20 2006, 11:25 AM) [snapback]1972266[/snapback]

Are you sure whalers use those missiles to kill whales?!

Ive heard of conventional harpoons with explosives. Once the harpoon pierces the skin of the whale a detonation occurs. Greenpeace is against the use of these inhumane tools since it usually takes a couple hours to 10 hours for the beast to die.

Yeah, I could be wrong. I'm pretty ignorant of the matter. All I know that those are in fact harpoons. I just don't know what the whalers use.
Ogumo
QUOTE
Greenpeace is against the use of these inhumane tools since it usually takes a couple hours to 10 hours for the beast to die.


Whales are not human beings.

I say the coast use lethal force on other greenpeace ships if they get too close. They should be treated as terrorists.
aaaw
Funny how this Japanese calls greenpeace terrorists when the Japanese are the ones terrorzing the whales

laugh.gif

kunomchu
QUOTE(Ogumo @ Jun 21 2006, 12:17 PM) [snapback]1975885[/snapback]

Whales are not human beings.

I say the coast use lethal force on other greenpeace ships if they get too close. They should be treated as terrorists.


kinda like how japanese treated other asians during ww2. huh?
Ogumo
^ I guess you were just dieing to bring world war to into this.
kunomchu
Just a simple analogy.
Ogumo
One that has no relevence to the current situation.
kunomchu
I would disagree since we are talking about japanese ethics on living things.
tangawizi
And exactly how is the chinese ethics on living things?
Jaimu-Jaimu
QUOTE(Ogumo @ Jun 21 2006, 05:17 PM) [snapback]1975885[/snapback]

Whales are not human beings.


That is important why? shifty.gif
scottyNZ
This is a pretty big issue here in NZ at the moment the reason why the NZ navy isnt intervening is because we have a very neutral peaceful internationl policy and we dont want to jeoprodise relations with Japan by using miltary force. Anyways the NZ navy is pretty pathetic got about 7 small ships in total icon_redface.gif. We,re so used to having the Aussies back us up plus theres the conflicts that have arisen just recently else where in the pacific.
Digital Insanity
michinobu_zoned

Since you regard of Green Peace as a terrorist group, then I urge you to eat whale meat (ignoring any Hg levels on it). Also, are you that ignorant of the marine environment?
BigBenChow
QUOTE(Ogumo @ Jun 21 2006, 01:26 PM) [snapback]1976035[/snapback]

^ I guess you were just dieing to bring world war to into this.


Every topic on the Japanese will automatically involve the subject of WW2. This is one of the downside to starting a war and loosing it at the end. icon_wink.gif

For example
Guy 1: "Did you see how Brazil annihilated Japan during the WC?"
Guy 2: "Ya, just like what the Americans did to Japan during WW2"

ZING!
Ogumo
^Which does nothing more than show their true pettyness.
ktchong
I say it's a good thing. Let Japanese eat their whale meats. Hopefully they will all get mercury poisoning.
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