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tangawizi
From the blogsite of a female american yogi (self-confessed christian quaker) who is currently studying yoga in Mysore, India.

QUOTE
Mysore is known for its beautiful silk and hand-carved sandalwood. Earlier, PSU and an anonymous poster suggested I look in the Kauvery store. There I found a few hand-carved Jesus statues and a Mary statue. The Mary statue had a cross on top of the crown that had broken and, to fix it, it had been put in upside-down. I explained that an upside-down cross was a bad sign to the vendor and he thanked me a lot for telling him and said he would have another the next week. Then we had a nice talk about how we will not know these things about each other's religions unless we talk about it.

Later, I was speaking with a Muslim man from whom I had bought several pieces of silk in the past few weeks. Since we had just haggled, he was sighing and saying that he disliked haggling so much. I told him that fixed pricing was first started in America by the Quakers because - the idea was - that haggling involves lying because each side starts out not saying what their bottom-line offer is. He started talking about business references in the Bible and the Koran and told me that, although he was Muslim, he had gone to Catholic school and was taught never to take more than 100% profit. He then asked me what my religion was and I said "Christian." He said that it concerned him that when he asked the western yoga students this question they often did not have an answer or took a while to say Christian. I agreed that I don't understand the hemming and hawing before saying "Christian" either. He then said that a lot of the yoga students do not seem to understand that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are religions of "the Book" and that you cannot be both a person of the Book and perhaps also worship Hindu Gods. He also said that he felt that a lot of the yoga students have an idea of what Hinduism is that is not the way it is practiced and also they have an idea that Hinduism is one one cosmology when in fact it is a general group of scripture and traditions that have produced a large number of sub-groups that theologically have little in common and many of whom do not agree with each other or recognize each other- and also would not recognize some western yoga students' suppositions about Hinduism. I listened to all this. A foreign religion is always partly experienced - just as a foreign culture is. The foreign religion is often a projection of our fears (if we dislike it) and our wishes (if we like it). He told me he was very pleased to speak with me because some of the westerners concern him. Then he told me that religion is really not discussed in India... that people tolerate each other's religion in India but do not discuss it. He said that Americans will always talk about religion even if they seem slow to admit that they are mostly Christians. Why so slow to bear witness he wanted to know?

At the Green Leaf restaurant at lunch I got the last table for two. A few minutes later a waiter asked me if I would mind sitting with a man who was also alone. He was a fair-skinned Indian man with well-manicured hands, a cell phone, and a palm pilot. He attempted to order in Hindi, then some other language and - I think the waitor responded in Kanada - which the man did not know and he ended up ordering in English. I asked him where he was from and he was from the North, here working on his Phd on Bio-mass as an energy source. We talked a little about the differences between northern and southern food and his thesis and the fact that his father had worked "in government." Then he asked me about my largest impression of India so far.

I told him that the thing that has struck me most is how much less power and choice women have here. He instructed me with the patience that a kind father has for a naughty child not to judge a culture on one thing. If I had said anything else I would have lied. I had simply been truthful about my largest impression; this way of responding is a not so subtle thing in India: Accept Your Place.

A little while back PSU and I had a little discussion about the poor and he pointed out that America is a rich country so I cannot compare the services America has with India. I believe that America is so rich because women are more powerful there in business and in government. One half of our population is not restricted but is mostly promoted by merit, will and ambition. By the way, PSU if you are reading, I thank you for your allowing me to speak my true impressions with good tolerance.

Years ago I remember reading a book by a father who was answering his daughter's questions about Catholicism. She had asked him why women were not able to become priests despite the concept that we are all God's children. He managed to fill a few pages - the major thrust of which was - that this is just one aspect of Catholicism which is rich and beautiful so why don't we not judge it on that one issue? I felt like reaching into the book and shaking this man and saying, "You are talking to a woman!" One major and important lesson I have gotten from this trip is that my rights as a woman are very recently won and extremely fragile and I keep my mouth shut and don't witness that fact at women's peril.


What is your view of her posting? Do u feel she is judging from her Christian Quaker background?
Tenjikuronin
The woman seriously thinks that America's riches came from women, when in reality, women did not entire the workforce until recently. Prior to the late 70's most women were indeed housewives in America, and it wasn't until the Baby Boomer generation (and the subsequent "Women's Liberation Movement") that women actually began entering the workforce in large numbers.....
tangawizi
But its a fact that women joining the workforce has a tremendous effect of the domestic economy. Is her ranting about women in India wrong?
xxmiyaxx
It looks insteresting, but its too long to read icon_sad.gif Can some one summarize? pretty please? icon_sad.gif
tangawizi
Basically, she's saying that India is where it is today because its women are expected to ACCEPT YOUR PLACE in society and not try to change things, get into the workforce, demand equal salaries...

This lady also blogged later about how she gets stared at by men non-stop on the streets in Mysore all the time. Is India an intimidating place to be a single woman?
xxmiyaxx
Thanks so much!! Said everything in a sentece laugh.gif Lol, anywho, I think shes right, though the women are starting to get rights. Slowly, but they are. A few years back they were expected to accpet whatever task that they wer given (majority to just be a house wife) but nowadays you see them having jobs and such, so atleast its improving icon_smile.gif
Tenjikuronin
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Jun 21 2006, 10:12 PM) *

Basically, she's saying that India is where it is today because its women are expected to ACCEPT YOUR PLACE in society and not try to change things, get into the workforce, demand equal salaries...

This lady also blogged later about how she gets stared at by men non-stop on the streets in Mysore all the time. Is India an intimidating place to be a single woman?



Actually, India is where its at today because it was raped for 300+ years by the Mughals and then the British.

India isn't intimidating for women, but I have to say, men do stare at attractive women nonstop. Some will even whistle. But if you have a man with you, they probably will keep away (nobody wants to get beat up over looking at a women.... embarassedlaugh.gif ).....
tangawizi
Thats like in Italy or Spain....they do dirty things with their fingers sometimes... horny **stards.
IPB Image

BTW, whats yr best advice if u are being stared at? Shd we accept the problem and be accompanied always by a man?
Tenjikuronin
QUOTE(tangawizi @ Jun 22 2006, 09:55 AM) *


BTW, whats yr best advice if u are being stared at? Shd we accept the problem and be accompanied always by a man?

If you are being stared at, my advice would be to ignore it. Most of the men doing the staring are probably sex deprived and are excited at the sight of a woman....... embarassedlaugh.gif

You needn't be accompanied by a man when going somewhere. But if you are, you are less likely to be stared at or whistled at. My advice is to not go alone to new areas, but take a along a few friends (even if they are all women). Power in numbers. biggthumpup.gif
tangawizi
QUOTE
My Hog and Remaining Equanimous

Mysore has a motor bike culture. In Gokulam, in the Shala community, the men have motor
cycles and the women (who have them) have motor scooters. To the left is a typical man's bike - and below is my feminine "scooty". Like a girl's bicycle, the scooter allows one to ride in a dress (or saree) with one's legs demurely closed in front while the motorcycle puts an engine between a man's legs. A few days ago a girlfriend and I watched an Englishman Ashtangi ride away on a scooter and we both agreed that he must be very secure to be riding a 'girl's bike.'

Mysore ladies wearing sarees sit on the back of their husband's bike side-saddle with their hands folded in their laps. The man and woman do not touch. Still, this is considered very intimate and you do not go on the back of a man's bike unless he is your husband, father or brother - lest you become dishonored. A western woman is different. I conveniently don't have this type of honor.

For me, driving a motor bike on the opposite side of the road than I am use to, in a city that makes New York traffic seem orderly - has gone outside my comfort zone. But the sprained ankle made it necessary. Now, as a result of the sprained ankle, I can drive around the round-abouts, beeping, weaving and... remaining equanimous.

On a 3 hour bus ride back from Bangalore last night I was asleep sitting next to the window when I awoke - eyes still shut - and realized that the man to my right was feeling my breast.

Now - as background - I have to mention that a few weeks ago there was a poll taken by one of the weekly magazines here that found that a majority of Indians feel that a just punishment for a man raping a woman is for him to be forced to marry her. This is because she has been dishonored - as has her family and there is nothing worse than dishonor (even being married to a rapist). Also, I did a blog entry called Men Staring a while back and Anonymous was nice enough to comment with a link to a site about "eve teasing". While looking into eve teasing I read the advice that if you are with women you can make a scene - but if there are only men around you cannot be sure of the reaction if you humiliate the man.

So, I weighed, do I open my eyes, slap him and make a scene at 10:00 at night on a bus with almost all men in a culture I do not understand and in which I am an outsider? As I considered my next move with my eyes still shut, he was trying to put his hand inside my bra. When I was asleep he must have picked up my shawl that was crossed in front of me, gone under the Kamzee top and now was moving his hand very carefully into my bra still trying not to wake me up. I decided not to pick this battle and turned "in my sleep" so that I was facing the window (away from him) and put my hands under my cheek as a cushion, and, conveniently, this meant that my right arm was across my breasts.

Because of the distorted definition of honor that makes a man's behavior towards a woman the woman's responsibility not the man's, rape is rarely reported here. However, just because I did not feel safe making a scene does not mean I have to be silent now. Also, as a warning, if you make a comment telling me what I "should have done" I will delete it. He is the one who should not have done something. I was asleep. And I remained equanimous; he does not deserve more and I do not deserve less.


The blogger said that she dresses very conservatively when going out in a sawar kameez with a high neck and a shawl (called a dupatta) that she wraps around her neck - and sometimes around her head because she has medium blonde hair and that stands out.

She feels that men in India may become more aware of these things like molesting when they have a daughter... and this awareness is probably true everywhere - and what a man becomes aware of varies with the culture.

What is your experience about this in India? Do u know anyone who was in a similar situation?
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