Buddhism is the truth and the way of life. It is proven to be nothing else but facts. Buddha means a person that is enlighten, a person that is awaken , and a person that is aware of the own actions which brings good effects of the action ( good karma) . An action(karma) brings a effects that brings more effects and so on. OUr future and destiny is made from our action and choices we make. Buddhism teaches karma and to get good effects from karma. Karma means action. If a person throws a stone off a roof onto another persons head it will bring bad effects to the person that the rock lands on and bad effects to the person throwing it. Now the karma(action) here is throwing the rock off the roof. It is bad karma(action). Why? because it lands on someones head hurting them. It is a bad because that person got hurt and now will come to hurt the person throwing the rock. Well now the person throwing the rock(bad karma) is getting beat up so it brings bad effects. Now this is 100 percent true and facts of life. In buddhism it teaches a person to be aware of their actions so it would bring good effects to a persons life. This is called the truth , the way , and the life.

i like that part... our future and destiny is in our hands

I agree with your post but the name of the thread is bothersome to me.
Reason being, reincarnation is a big part of buddhism. I, myself, believe in reincarnation, but no, incase skeptic guy is wondering, I cannot prove it.
Since reincarnation cannot be proven, it requires you to have faith and to believe in things such as spirits and "angels" (those who are "higher" then people). This can cause some people to become overly superstitious.
And there are other things in buddhism that involve superstitions so I wouldnt say buddhism is 100% true. However buddhism as a philosophy is very useful.

Assert, assert and when in doubt, assert some more.
I really should do something about these threads.

are you talking to moi or the thread starter?

What do you plan to do about these threads?

^ Thread starter.
What am I planning? I have no idea.

ditto... but i love buddhism esp its philosophy...

I asked b/c I realize that I do that too. Heh.


Make those this-religion-is-100%-true topic starters (if they are not the same person ) wash your feet.

That's a bit simplistc explanation to karma not to mention misleading. There are several heavens and level of hell in Buddhism. Karma is tied into all of them. Buddhism - depending on the branch - believes in hell the same way Christians do, with the addition of one level of hell being reincarnated into lower animal life form such as a dog.

But more importantly Buddhism - from my limited understanding - teaches that poor people, people born deformed, and people born physically unattractive are such way partly due to bad karma from a previous life.

If infact karma was as simple in notion to all world wide Buddhism as you attempt to portray it, Tibetan Buddhist wouldn't have prayer flags waving all over the place. The ceremony and ritual (such as incense and prayer) would seem to give evidence to a great depth and complextity to the concept of karma, the idea of Boddhisttavas (spelling?) no less.

Personally I tend find it bad "philosophy" to fault a kid born with no arms or legs for his/her condition per partially* what they did wrong in some previous life.



*I say partially because it is my understanding that karma in relation to such conditions are not the sole factor and the idea of karma itself in that is more complex.

>>>

I do have some Buddhist texts, written in English, on the student Ananda. Pretty pessimistic view to sex Ananda and Buddha have I might say.


Having said that... Buddhism has worked out some excellent way to obtaining self mastery. Perhaps better than any other religion.

One of the dumbest thread I've encountered today.

Sorry, but this is exactly the kind of thread that deserves a one line reply.

I'm not even sure if Buddhism lends itself to cognitivism, so adjectives like true or not true or false can seem awkward.

But of course karma taken literally is stupid.

SPANK THE THREAD STARTER!!!

Buddha pwn n00bs

Reincarnation is true, when your deceased your body becomes one with the Earth. How u ask?? When u decompose your flesh goes to mother nature and you are giving yourself away to a cycle. Say your flesh becomes nutrients for a flower. That flower will grow with help from your nutrients, in turn a bee will use the pollen in that flower for nectar. Then that bee will be food for other animals, OR it creates honey which in turn is a type of food for other people. Yeah that my friends is reincarnation, the cycle never ends. I believe your spirit is entangle in that cycle for a long time until you reach the end of it and become a human once again, its like the symbol of the Wheel that is on India's flag....so much symbolism.

In buddhism there are no gods or angels. Buddhism is not religion but a practice that brings awareness of ones own action so the action would bring good effects. Buddhism is the way of life that brings peace and lessen suffering of life. It is religion to the west because it is misunderstood as a religion. Reincarnation from what I learn is the soul or mind that doesn't die when the body dies. When the bodies dies the soul moves on . A soul is your thoughts , your memories , the way you think and react to choices. The human souls develop from a persons surroundings , enviroment and what the parents past on by genes. When the bodies dies the soul of that person stays alive through their kids family and friends . As long as the persons memories and characteristic lives on then that persons soul stills exist. A person capability to thing and make choices is the souls. A person dies and reborn is when the soul develop changes. A soul develop changes or dies and reborn is when the persons ways of thinking changes or the characteristic changes. The souls dies and reborn when enviroment / surroundings effect a person to change the way they think . That is reincanation that can be proven. If there is superstitious than it is not buddhism because buddhism has no god or angel. Buddhism is a practice of awareness that brings people to see things clearly. Superstitious are made by different people and students of buddhism. In buddism heaven and hell is now. Hell is a state of mind or being of a person that is suffering . Heaven (nibbanna) is a state of happiness from in the mind of a person that can be achieved at any time. There are millions of buddha being born everyday because people learn from their mistake and make wise decision to have a better efffects on their life that brings happiness.

Four main building blocks of buddism

Karma Sadha = meaning believing in action( believe in your own action)
Karma Sagadha Sadha= meaning believe in the effects of your own action( every actions or choices brings good or bad effects)
Veba Gahsadha= meaning believe that every action will brings effects
TataGadha Bodhisata= meaning to learn from a teaching of a enlighten teacher or in other words learn from someones else mistake is better than learning from your own mistake that way you won't make the same mistakes. To learn from your mistake is to bring wisdom. When there is wisdom one can make a better choices or action that would bring better effects .

Now this is the building blocks of buddhism. There are no superstitious involve here. The truth is there effects to every cause and there are cause to every effects.

Maybe you need a god and can't be responsible for your own action. Maybe you blame God and bad spirit for your own actions.

The buddha that a child suffering can be the cause of the parents action. The parent made bad choice and action so if brings a bad effects to the child. An example would be when the parents had the child in the womb the parents smoke or did drugs the kid came out with health problems. The karma(action) here is the parents did drugs and the effects is the child suffer when the child is born. That is the karma of the parent that brought suffering to the child. Second example , the parent work near by a raidio active area while pregnant. THe karma( action) here is the parent work(which is an action) near radio active material and the effect would be the child in the womb was harm . That is called bad karma(bad action or bad choices) even if the choices and action was not intentional it still had an effect on the body. This is the karma of the parents not the child that brought bad effects. It is still bad karma. THats why we have practice of awareness.

A dog has a soul. The soul is the characteristic of the dog. IF the dog is capable of thinking then the dog has a soul. The soul is the thought of the dog. The dog soul is develop throught its surrounding. The dog will always think and do what ever it can to survive.

When we talk about previous life we talk about our past. A person can die and be reborn millions of times. Everytime a person thought changes it is death and rebirth. When a person is a 12 year old kid he is not the same as the person he is when he is 50. That is called dieing and be reborn. when the person is 12 he has different ways of thinking(thoughts) . When he is 12 he made choices a different way then he is when he is 50. When a person turns 50 the 12 year old now longer exist . The 12 year old is gone the new person with different ways of thinking and choices is the 50 year old. He is a new person when he is 50 . This is called death and rebirth or reincarnation. It is like the the person is 12 he is a murderer and evil but when he is 50 he is a kind person. It is called death and rebirth because he the 12 year old died and the kind 50 year old is still alive.

Who knows. Maybe I blame you.

Dumb fu-ks.

Can't say I find a whole lot in here that's incorrect. It's pretty basic stuff and if this is all that Buddhism encompassed, I give it a passing grade.

However, I disagree with one of your statements. You said, "It is a bad because that person got hurt and now will come to hurt the person throwing the rock."

I would say the action was bad not because it would result in getting the rock thrower's @$$ kicked, but because the rock thrower should have known that they don't like to get hit on the noggin with a rock and extend that same consideration to others who would suffer similarly from such an action.

Call all the Kantians say "Hey!"?

rofl hahahah

I come from a country that is 80-90% buddhist and believe me, Buddhism is a religion to them and involves quite a bit of superstitions.
What I meant by "angels" was spirits who are higher then humans, which exists in Theraveda Buddhist belief...They are not considered enlighten beings however and they had to bow to buddha back in his time ...
As the belief goes, animals are lower then humans, there are spirits who are higher then or lower then humans, depending on their Karma, there are so many levels of existence according to that belief system. Humans who were borned privileged and are lucky in life are considered to have done good deeds in their past lives, whereas someone who has bad luck and has to struggle in life is paying for some bad thing they caused in a previous life. It can happen to enlighten beings also, as there is a story about one of Buddha's disciples who died from being beaten by thieves after he was enlightened, and he was paying for a crime he commited in his last life before he became the disciple of buddha.
In theraveda, there is always a cause and an effect of your actions as long as your soul keeps existing in this universe (but if you become enlightened in this life, you will not reincarnate anymore thus your soul will cease to exist), and it can be from many previous lives ago or a recent past life, for example if you commited a bad deed in your last past life and b/c of that, you may go through some hardship in this life but a good deed you did in many previous lives ago can save you and neutralize it...so yeah there is a bit of superstition thurrrr heh.
The message is though to keep doing good, and avoid bad deeds, as they will always have positive effects on your karma, and you may not be able to see them right away or in this life. However if you believe in reincarnation then you'll get it. I think this requires you to be superstitious.

neesan is a buddhist!!!! yah better respect that yahdamean

^lil bro! ^_^

I believe in reincarnation but I dont practice Theraveda buddhism, dont pray or go to the temple etc.

To my understanding that is not reincarnation - perhaps I'm wrong - but from my understanding Buddhism believes that energy life force is separated from the martial body when the body dies. Otherwise how could Buddhist with empliary lives and merit enter one of the several spheres where "gods" abode? Your description would also seem to logically negate the possibility of ending the cycle of death and rebirth which is a fundamental goal and tent of Buddhism.

Grandmaster,

Some of what you say I will agree makes perfect philosophical sense. Let me also restate again that Buddhism has developed excellent ways to obtaining self mastery - perhaps better than any other religion. So I do acknowledge some excellent qualities of Buddhism.


But even if we were to accept your explanation of karma, we are still left with the fact that some conditions and disease are genetical and have nothing to do with the choices or unawarness of a persons parents.

Further more your explantion of reincarnation seems to be to simplistic and disingenuous, given the fact Sidhartha Buddha is suppose to have had several former lives - none of which were female I might add.


Here is something from out a book I have on some of the world's great speculative philosophy, covering Thomas Aquinas, Spinoza, various others including selected Buddhist and Hindu texts.

I'll provide some excerpts from the Surangama Sutra (Essence of Mind) Buddhist text. First I'll give a preface the editor of this book, of selected collections of speculative philosophy, provides for the Surangama.


Preface.



Essence Of Mind.


Now can you answer me as to who or what the "Tathagatas" are and if they are human what are they doing in the "ten quarters of the universe," and how all that lends itself to "common sense" provable philosophy as you imply and not to crafted hermeneutics to be understood under the cultural context of Eastern sanskrit world - more specifically Buddhist contexual use of sanskrit? Now I realize the most ancient Buddhist sacred text were written in Pali and various texts in sanskrit came latter on. So perhaps your branch of Buddhism rejects the Surangama Sutra as being authentic Buddhism with validity... I don't know?




All Dali Lamas are Bodhisttvas, correct? My understanding is a Bodhisattva is one that has obtaiened enough merit and reached enough wisdom to enter one of the spheres of heaven where the gods rest. But instead these chosen souls chose to be reincarnated as human to help guide men to enlightenment and end human suffering. This of course is a far more complicate picture of both karma and rebirth than what you presented. However in all due fairness I'm presuming your of the Buddhist stream that does not recognize Bodhisttvas and considers it some what of a heresy in Buddhism? Which if that is the case then there is perhaps no contradiction in your position on rebirth and karma.



Again, these writings seem for the reader not to depend upon "common sense" to understand them most appropriately, but rather on proper hermeneutics.

While I don't doubt celibacy requires a certain mastery of self or even can many times help one to become free from other areas of passion in his or her life, I nonetheless can not cede that it is "common sense" or scientifically provable that sexual intercourse causes the blood to become "inflamed and impure" or for the blood to have "impure secretions."

So far as I can tell Buddhist holy texts need just as much interpretation as Jewish, Christian, Islamic, and Hindu holy texts.

But I am always curious why Dali Lamas seem to always be male? Perhaps it is possible that I'm just illinformed. But it seems women in Buddhism do not reach enlightenment at the rate men do. Men can gain merit to one of the heavens by becoming monks for any duration of time. Women don't earn merit by becoming Buddhist Nuns but rather by having one of their sons enter the monastic vocation temporarily or permanently. And in all Sidhartha Buddhas perivious lives he not once was a woman.

But like I said I may just be illinformed about Buddhism, that is very possible I admit it, but while I doi admire many aspects about Buddhism I'm always left confused as to why it is so much more older than Christianity yet - so far as I can tell from limited outside observation - has so few female saints compared to Christianity and more especially has no female figure revered like the Virgin Mary? My point is not to imply Christianity is better, not at all, but I question your stance of Buddhism being matter-of-fact and common sense implied in your prose. To me everything of Buddhsim - be it the the most true religion on earth - is not so clear or simply common sense.

Very true that different division of buddhism interperate the teaching a little differently. When buddhism influence different regions the people in that region adds their older believe to the original buddhism. Most of the people in the world has a misunderstanding of buddism. You don't need to be a buddhist monk or male to be a buddha. buddhas are born all over the world every minute. People learn from their past mistake that makes them wise to make sound choices. I gonna give you an example of a buddha. Jesus christ is a buddha. Mother Teresa is a buddha, Gandhi is a buddha. Martin Luther king Jr. is a buddha.
All these people knows the efffects of what their actions would bring them. For compassion they all made choices to benefit others even if it brings harm to themselves. There were all aware of what would happen of the choices they made.

I have to remind you that the Guatama buddha is not a god. He is a man that preaches righteousness and awareness of karma(actions). Let me tell you alittle of the history so you can understand where many superstitous starte in buddhism. During the time Aexander the great fought in to the northern part of India there were hindu killing Buddism monks and buring many of his teaching. Buddhism monks wouldn't fight back and would get killed because hate would only bring more hate. Alexander the great stop the killings and made people get along. Alexander told the buddhist to make a statue of their great teacher but no one knew what he looks like. The buddhist then made a statue of a man that looks different from other people. They made a statue of him with big ears to be different. The made him look more womenly to symbolize more compassion. At the same time buddhist didn't have a god or angel because buddhism is a practice of awareness. So to compete with other religions that had gods buddhist use devada( female) as a secrete symbol. Deva for short in southeast asia its pronounce Thevada or just theva. The secret Deva (female ) that buddhist use as sacred is Marda(mother) . In southeast asia its pronounce marnda . These are pali words. The reason why buddhist hold this sacred is because a women gave birth to us . We all came from the womb of women and that is our mother. So our parents are very sacred in the buddist religion. Ever since then more things were add to the actual teaching of the buddha. Especially when the religion reaches different parts of the world.

Remember for two hundreds years the buddhas teaching were missing and thats later after his death.
Now many years later there were different interpretations of the buddhas teaching being written up. There are tibetan , Mahayana suchas as chinese and vietnamese. There are Hinayanna(thevarada buddhism) such as Lao Thai Burma and Sri Lanka. The thevarada is the one practice the same way that prince Sidharta teaches. Thevarada are still using pali and sanskrit . Mahayanna are already interpretated .

The buddha teaches that there is birth and their is death. Without birth there are no deaths . Without darkness there is no light. YOu mention Tathagatas and the universe. What the hell does a man that practices awareness and righteousness have to do with aliens or spaces. The Guatama buddha is only a man. He is not god. YOu mention people die are reborn into animals , do you have proof of it. True buddhist believe in something that can be proven. Prince Sidharta taught that death is part of life and no one can person can escape death. when a man dies the mans body will turn to earth. A dead person cannot get up ten years later to ask you for food nor can he harm you. The Guatama buddha dies and never came back. He even said that once he is dead he will and can never come back. Once a person dies he is dead.

Yes all dali larma are Bodhhisttva. What does a wise teacher that gain wisdom have to do with god. IF they are with god they would be christians not buddhist. Unless they are Christians or other religion that also practice awareness and righteousness. I don't know what kind of teacher with wisdom you have there if they are sitting with god. They must be smoking something 55555555555555. IF anyone brings ghost angels and god into the original buddhism then I want to ask you can you prove it.



Let me ask your buddhism versus mines. Can you prove that after the bodies dies the soul flows into a dogs body and become a dog. The buddha teaches to be logical and believe in something that can be proven.


Yes animal are at a lower stage then humans. Animals suffers more than human. Animal does not have the intellect of a human to built hospital or to go see the doctors. Humans , when we are hurt we will go see the doctors and pay them to fix us up so it will ease the suffering. Animal can't do that so they suffer more unless they are pets in the United States where their owner takes care of them then they are at a higher stage. Suffering is hell the state of unhappiness. The more you suffer then that is more hell. Most animal are in hell because it is their state of being. Also we eat most of them and thats bringing suffering upon them.

Like I said cause and effects. It is the truth. If there is an effect to a persons life then there is a cause the created the effects.

Grandmaster,

Thank you for your reply. I'm thinking English is not your first language, so I think we may run the risk of having some communication problems, and I want to keep that in mind.

I can respect that you're of Thevarada Buddhism and as such differ significantly from Mahayana Buddhism. But I'm at a lost to understand if you do or do not consider Mahayana's (that is the predominate Buddhism of Tibet, China, and a few other areas correct?) as Buddhists? Because on the one hand you list them as one of the major streams of Buddhism, yet later on you condemn any one with their held beliefs as not Buddhists?

Several sources on the internet on Tibetan Dali Lama's will tell you what Mahayana Buddhisms beliefs are on Bodhhisttvas. I don't need to provide internet links for that as I'm not attempting to debate with you for a principle of "one-upmanship" or to cast Buddhism in a negative light. The Mahayana's indeed appear to believe in souls ability to reach various spheres of heaven in different worlds and reside as what they call "gods." However their context of "gods" is not Pagan but rather pretty much similar to the Catholic concept of saints and the "communion of saints." Bodhhisttavas as such in Mahayana Buddhism are as or close as I described them before in my earlier post. It is pretty self evident in the concept of prayer flags as well as the wealth and luxury each Dali Lama lived in in Tibet pre-communist invasion.

So are you saying this present beloved Dali Lama living in exile, cherished by U.S. Hollywood stars, musicians, and media, and respected by people across the world... is not a "real" Buddhist?

Should you be teaching the Dali Lama or should the Dali Lama being teaching you? Of course the this Dali Lama has stated he is not a god... but that has partly to do with his character and also with the fact that Mahayana Buddhism and Tibetans have revered Dali Lamas as either those that were in one of the spheres of heaven as a "god" or could have went into one of the spheres of heaven and became a "god."

Also I'm at a loss to figure out why Buddhist had monks at the time of encounter with Alexander the great before you say it was impurified... if it was not a religion but just a philosophy? Monks and the institution of monastic vows seems to indicate ceremony, ritual, and praxis of religiousity - not secular philosophy. There are many philosophers, speculative as well as political, who never became monks and participated in uniformed rituals and common vows.

I'm also at a loss to understand if Thevarada Buddhism accepts the Surangama Sutra as official Buddhist texts? If it does then this seems to run contradictory to the image you have been projecting of Buddhism.


Perhaps I'm wrong on some things or misunderstanding some things, but I'm hoping to reach some degree of common understanding and some glimmer of light on what exactly Buddhism is. This is my purpose of query. Because the image you have present does not jibe with my current understanding of Buddhism.


Peace.

this thread is fffffking stupid

I never said that the Dali larma is not a buddhist. I just don't agree with all of their interpretations of the teaching of the Guatama buddha. In fact I stayed with the Dali Larma before. I am not disrespecting him because I am at a student level and he is at a teacher level. When I stayed with him we had this same discussion. This subject is what we were talking about. We talked about the interpretations of the teaching. The dali larma knows and I know that the buddhas teaching was lost for some period of times before it was found and rewritten. The Dali Larma and I did not agree on reincarnation. To my interpretation of the teaching when a person dies that person dies. The Dali larma believes that persons soul can be reincarnated into an animal. There is no proof of that. He tood me that I am still young and have much to learn. I wouldn't argue with the man , his rank is alot higher than I am.

IF you go and ask any buddhist teacher what is the three karma that is the building block and back bone of buddhism. They would answer mind body and speech. Mind is Mano karma, speech is jee karma, and body is kayah karma. Kayah karma is action acting by the physical body. Jee or wajee karma is action acting by speech. Mano karma is action acting by mind ( making choices) . Once a person is aware of all of these karma(action) then it will bring better effects thats good karma. Go and ask the Dali larma yourself . It is a practice of awareness not a practice to see god. Thats why buddhism trains the body and mind. When the body is weak the mind is weak . When the mind is weak a person make bad choices(Mano karma). Bad choices can bring bad effects. Also when the mind is ill or weak it can cause the body to harm. Bad thoughts without being aware of ones own choices and action would bring bad effects to oneself. After the death of the buddha many practice and belief were added on the the religion.

Yes thevarada buddhist use Surungama sutra but it doesn't mean I fully agree with every thing in that sutra. Thats why there are many buddhist that disagree with each other on the teaching. Remember most of his teaching were rewritten when Mahayana was started. Mahayana( meaning greater script) is a reinterpretation of the buddhas teaching. This reinterpretation was brought into china during the time of my ancestor in the Nanchao kingdom. The empire of acient china wanted to travel through Nanchao to bring the Mahayanna buddhism into the ancient chinese kingdom. The Kingdom of Nanchao didn't allow it so there was a war between Nanchao and the ancient chinese. Eventually they brought Mahayanna buddism into china and Nanchao was also influence . The reason why Mahayanna is the majority is because china + vietnam = tibet+many more has more population that people in southeastasia. The buddha died from eating pork. The reinterpretation which is Mahayanna does not eat meat. Buddha never said not to eat meat but Mahayanna forbidden to eat meat. As you can see there it is an evidence of changes in the philosophy.



Buddhism is not a religion but a philosopy. There are monks during the time of Alexander the great because they are his students but many of the origina doctrine were lost for almost 2 hundred years after the buddhas death. There was already a monk before prince Sidharta ever became a buddha. Just because you have a community of students that practice what you teach does not mean its a religion. Many people practice tai chi but tai chi is not a religion. When the Sidartha snuck outside the royal palace he saw a monk in yellow robes and he use that as his example. If I didn't answer I will come back and do that later when I have time so we can get an understanding.

great thread. thanks... i believe there will be good effects as a result.

mmm... i can feel my headache melting.... MELTING... muahaha

yeah i think the spiritual philosophy of buddhism is present in many world religions... its weird, when i used to smoke out in natural environments... i felt really calm and at peace... i actually got my blood pressure checked one time and tried to super relax and meditate, and it read 71 over 50... then i started breathing harder, and made it went up to the 90s...the nurse was tripping out pretty hard... LOL but now i just get headaches... oh wellz

@ bold 1: Fair enough, but your commentary in bold #2 in conjunction with what you repeatedly assert Buddhism is or doesn't believe, seem to contradict your point in bold #1 at worse, or cause friction with your point in bold #1 at best. (because the Buddhism the Dali Lama believes in allows for the intervemtion of non corporal beings releaving one of bad karma via the initiated process of prayer. Among other things)

@ bold 3: I understand, grandmaster, that none of Buddhism believes in God (as in the principle of First Cause that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam believes in). I accept you are 100% coorect that every stream of Buddhism is about awarness and freeing ones self of cravings. I understand that and accept that. And Buddhsim has developed some excellent methods and practices to doing that I might add.

@ underlined: Well this acknowledgment of yours does not jibe well with your orginal assertion in the beginning of this thread per the way you were portraying Buddhism. Given the fact of the "Tathagatas" mentioned in that sutra and the matter of "impure secretions" in the bloodstream resulting from sex, as shown in I believe it was post #23 of mine in this thread, beginning under "Essence of Mind."

@ bold 4: Here I have a problem with this assertion. For Mahayana Buddhism most especially seems to fit a defintion of being a religion and not just a philosophy since the belief in spheres and levels of hell and heaven outside of this world and existance permeats Mahayana Buddhism itself. In that Buddhism the practioners or believers pray to non corporal being to intercede (sp?) in their lives and help make things better just as much as Christians do. They have temples in which they conduct the manners of ceremonies and believers have ritualized movements from prostration to lighting of incense - not unlike Christians, Jews, Hindus, or Muslims. That Thevarada Buddhism has monks (an I assume monasteries also?), which accompanies ceremonies and rituals and common vows, lends itself to a certain religiousity, and draws question to my mind as to how much it is just simply a philosophy soley.

@ bold 5: There were monks before Sidharta became Buddha because they were "Hindu" monks. Those monks were religious.




Grandmaster, I won't bother you more; I don't wish to upset your convictions, and I think we have brought this as close to understanding between one another as we can. Any more on my part would probably be harrassing you. I think I pretty much understand were you are coming from now. I'll allow you the last word.

I wish I had followed that sentiment.

First of all. Deva are the Buddhist equivalent of angels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_%28Buddh...#Devas_vs._gods

And second of all there are no souls in Buddhism. Every organism has a Self (Sanskrit: Ātman, Pāli: Atta). A dog would have the Self of a dog, when the it dies, the dog Self dies and in the next life there is a new Self. Self dies with the physical organism. When nirvāṇa is attained, the Self dies


North India was easily conquested by Buddhism. Indo-Greek rulers who captured the region converted to Buddhism

To me it is not close yet. I came here not to agree with anyone but post and get post from other posters. 1A How the are you gonna releave bad karma with a prayer. Who are you praying to ? There is no god involve in Buddhism. Let me give you an example. If you go and kill a man and you prayed so your wrond doing won't come back to hurt you , you think it s gonna work? IF the family members of that man plans to come and kill your your prayer is not gonna stop him. Even the Guatama buddha himself died from poison in pork . What makes you think prayer will help you when the teacher himself couldn't even do that. Like I said many different things were added to the original buddhism through out history after his death. The buddha died from eating pork but Mahayanna doesn't eat flesh. Thats evidence of changes. Even the dude that just posted showed another evidence of changes. He said buddhist believe in angel. He thinks a women is an angel and didn't understand that thevarada buddhist hold females sacred because in the past buddhist didn't have anything to compete with hindu or other religion. To make it clear , the Dali larma is a buddhist but the interpretation he has had added many new believes to buddhism.

2A I have no disagreement with you on this.

3A The buddhas teaching is of nature and derive from nature. Sex is part of nature for human and animals. It is part of our nature to have sex and reproduce. Our body is made for that or men wouldn't have penis and women wouldn't have virgina. The reason why monks don't have sex is because it will bring more temptions from the pleasure when it is experience. It will bring more desire and would make a man blind to make sound choices from desire, craving , and temptations. This in pali is called lopah tosah moha. If your mind is strong then there is no problem to have it and misuse it. I don't remember disagreeing with you about this. Maybe you have misunderstood me. You also mention about the universe. How would a man that doesn't even know the world was round know anything about the universe? I think I have to keep on reminding you that prince Sidharta is a man. Also another reminder that most of the teaching was lost for 200 years or more. Most of the yana now are not original. Most of the yanna are rewritten. Most of the sutra had many more things added on to it.

opps got to go I be back to quote you some more. Keep your post comming cause I'm not gonna stop.

Okay now I am back from the nice day at the beach. Now let me add on to what you said. You are saying that protrayal of buddhism is wrong. Now we will go straight to the fundamental of buddism. I want you to define the word Karma. Go and look in your pali book and tell me what it means. I bet you the defintion will say actions. Karma means action. If you ever studied buddhism you would know what pali and sanskrit is. Now define the word Buddha. I bet you will see it saying something like Enlightment, high conciousness, Awareness, a person that reaches nibbanna. Now to be a buddha of your karma would be to be aware of your actions so it would bring good effects to your life. It is simply as that. Besides that you got the word TRI. When define the word tri in English it means three. TRI or three refers to the three Karma (action). The three actions that a person should practice through meditation are Jee karma( speech), Mano Karma(mind), and Gayah karma( body). You can go and ask your Dali larma yourself about mind body and speech being apart of the buddhas teaching. The man should know this. Finally you have the buddha (enlighten one, or high awareness) the Sangha( meaning communnity referring to buddhist diciples) , and then your have the Dharma (which is teaching of righteousness that came from nature). The buddha didn't create the dharma. The dharma already exist. Nature already exist before the Guatama buddha . All the buddha did was explaing nature .

Now look at the fundamental aspect of buddhism. You want to be a buddha of your karma mastering your action so it will bring good effects to your life. The three karma that you want to master is mind body and speech in which mind is the most important because the mind make choice for the body to act. Budhhist develop many ways of mediation to master these three karma(actions) in or to reach nibbanna. Nibanna is pronounce nirvanna in English. Nibanna is the state of happiness which is reffer to you as a heavenly state . It is a state in the mind and it is not a place. AS you can see here there are no god invovle in this practice. I can even copy of the no god doctrine and type it for you to read.


4A Now let me repeat something I posted before. Buddhist have develop changes from its original doctrine and teaching. Most of it was lost for 200 hundred years or more. Mahayanna is a reinterpretation of the buddhist teaching . The word Maha means great or greater. The word Yanna meaning script or writhings. Mahayanna meaning greater script or writing of the buddhas teaching . This reinterpretations had many changes from the original teaching of the buddha because the diciples feels its better to creat improvements to make it easier for others to attain enlightment. Heaven and hell is a state not a place . Hell is a state of suffering from bad choices or bad actions that effects a person. Heaven is the state of happiness from the action that effects a person. It is a state of mind. The horrific pictures are of hell are from children to be scare so that it would stay in the head to do only good. You have to seprate parables and reality bro. Let me give you another examples of changes . The devarada buddhist in southeast asia first came from the buddha himself being in that land. It is in buddhist history books. It is also proven by United Nation UNESCO that the buddha had travel to northeast thailand and Central thailand long before thailand ever exist. This is when south east asia was still a second India. The city that the buddha travel to called SRI SUDONA is now called Luanprabang Laos. From that time there were changes because empire rise and fall. THe second presence of buddhism was when it travel from Sri lanka up to the kingdom of SRI VIJAYA kingdom in southeast asia ( this is southern thailand in mordern day). Sri Vijaya also had ties to the kingdom of Galinga in southeast India that involve buddhism. The third presence of buddhism was in the khmer kingdom but it was Mahayanna buddhism and then Devarada buddhism. Sri Vijaya empire changes to lopburi, Lawo , and mon DEVARATI . Mon Devarit is where the tai kingdom of Sukhothaya got buddhism from. When Sukhothai decline in power new kingdoms were created. Lanxang brought buddhism up from the khmer empire of Angkor. Through out all these time many sutra develope changes. NOw the word DEVA or DEVADA that means female are reffered to as angel. The empire of Mon DEVARTI called their king DEVA RAJA as reffering to GOD KING and not meaning women king. You see how it travels and sutra changes?

We have ceremonies , monastery , and chants not prayers. You can not pray to a man that is dead. The buddha said that once a person is dead he will not come back. Chanting a sutra is to keep it in the mind so it wouldn't be forgotten. If it is written down as a yanna it could be burn or lost throught times. like I said the original is not a religion but philosophy. Maybe Mahayanna turn into a religion but to people that truely understand the fundamental aspect of it is a philosophy. Thank you for many of your post bro . I enjoy it.

Oh forgot to tell you English is not my Second language , it is my fifth language. I speak khmai, lao, thai, pali, and English.

Don't know , dont care as long as there are post in my topic. YOu can say whatever you like doesn't bother me. YOu nor anyone else here pays for my bills or put food on my table. Post whatever you like .


555555555555555555 hahahahaha


I gonna get cha now hommie. NOw that I have time. You can blame me all you want. I'll just let you speak to the hands. I'll draw a smile on my hands and you can talk to it. Your probably one of those guys that bangs little boys @$$ and tell people the devil made you do it 55555555555555.


I think you need to go back and look up what Deva means in Pali. It means female. I already told you the history behind the deva in Thevarada buddhism. Like I said in my previous post the deva that some buddhist in southeast asia believe has been change from being a women reffering to our mother that we hold sacred. Have you been a monk or Novice in Thevarada buddhism which is the original from the buddha? In Theverada buddhism learning pali is required to learn the teaching of the Buddha ( buddha Sasana).

I think you may have confused "Alexander the Great" for "Ashoka the Great". They were two different people. Ashoka was an Indian emperor who empowered Buddhism, after conquering most of Southern Asia and converting to Buddhism. It was Ashoka that preached tolerance and made Hindus, Buddhists and Jains get along with each other, using his strong influence.

As for Alexander, he had very little influence in India and no influence on Buddhism, because he died soon after his conquests in Pakistan. The Greeks soon lost their territories in Pakistan and Afghanistan to Ashoka's grandfather only a few years later.


I think you may have confused "Deva" for "Devi". They have different meanings. In both Sanskrit and Pali, Deva means "God" and Devi means "Goddess".

Nice to see many of the South East Asian in this thread.

If some things wrong ,I think it jst about Budhist not focus on d family value as Catholic.

I don't think I have mistaken between Ashoka and Alexander. Ashoka is a great warrior but he but he didn't have influnce on buddhism in India until he fought and control Galinga. The war that AShoka fought to get galinga was so bloody and he lost so many people in that war. King Ashoka then realize that even out of all the war he won and out of all the people he killed he didn't not win all the peoples heart. Thats why Ashoka trun to relgion. In some books it said that Ashoka was born in a Hindu family but after the war in Galinga converted to Buddhism. It also stated that because many Hindu didn't agree with king Ashokas decision so they migrated out of India and into southeast asia. Later these Hindu mix in with the local people of southeast asia and became the ancestor of the Khmer people.

The kingdom of Galinga is in the southeast of Indian. What happen with buddhism and Alexander is in the northerwestern part of India. Pakistan at that time was still apart of India. Even thou Alexander was not there for a long period of time He did have alot of power in a short period to make an influence. The only reason why Alexander decided to stop fighting in India was because he got shot by an arrow. Alexander decided to claim up the fortress of a city and when he got on top he didn't come back down to let his men go in and fight first. Alexander made a big mistake by moving in a being the first man in the city he got shot. When his soldier got into the city they saw their invincible laying on the ground with blood all over him. Thats probably why he decided to stop his conquest.


Maybe I did and maybe I didn't mistaken the word deva and devi. If we want to be sure we can ask the Indians at their forum to be sure I still hear them use that word. I still hear them use many words from acient sanskrit. Still there is no god being involve in buddhism. There is level of heaven and hell. The only level heaven and hell is the description in word and picture to show a person suffering and happiness in the state of mind and body.

No religion is 100% anything. Especially, religions dealing with death and the afterlife. Last time, I checked that part is very hard to prove. Also, the Karma part isn't really reflected in real life, it's more choices than anything. It's hard to prove to me that because I kill that spider this morning, my car decided to take a dump in the 100 degree heat...I'd wager it's probably more because of the 100 degrees than it was because of the spider.

The only thing that any religion brings to the table is morals, and that's the same with Buddhism. Discipline and morals.

Haven't you been reader any of my post and what I am trying to tell everybody? Like I said there were changes in the buddhist teaching after his death. I been trying to tell everyone here that it is all cause and effects. You just have to be aware of your cause so it brings better effects. Its that simple. Like I also said in my previous post that there are no proof of the after life . The state of heaven and hell is here and now in the mind. Peace is every step.

Let me illustrate the awareness of karma. One day your walking down to the store. A robber came by and ask you if you have any money. IF you choose to tell him you have 300 dollars in your pocket and will generously give him 50 cause he ask you for some it is bad karma even thou its a good intention. Why? The guy is a robber thats what he does for a living. You want to do a good deed and told a robber you have 300 dollars and will give him 50 dollars. The dude you robs you for all your money making your action(karma) to effect you badly(bad karma) by getting robbed. What is the karma there? The karma there is you telling the robber you have 300 dollars that he wants. What is the effects there ? you got robbed. It is called bad karma. Why ? Because it is a bad Mano Karma( mind or mental actior meaning choices). YOu made a bad choose so it effects you badly. Thats why a person has to be a buddha of their Karma meaning be aware or enlighten in their action which here is Mano Karma( mind action /choices). No you go around and tell people , man I did alot of good things how come bad things always happen to me. It is called sptupidity. Nothing more and nothing less just awareness is the foundation of Buddhism.

You're a better man than me; I only speak one. And you have good Engish for it being your 5th language.

Thank you for the compliment Extra hour. I don't think I am a better man than you or anybody else thou. I think any one person is capable of doing it. It is human instinct to adapt and survive. If any one is put into a situation where they have to learn they would pick it up pretty fast. If also any person choose to learn something that person will eventually learn . It can be fast or slow cause every one learns at a different paste.

I agree about Ashoka, he was very ruthless and cold-hearted in his younger days, but he later regretted it and made up for it after converting to Buddhism (I think he was either a Hindu or a Jain before that). However, I still disagree about Alexander. I don't see how he could have had any significant influence on India or Buddhism if his influence was only limited to the Punjab and Indus Valley regions (in modern Pakistan), and his influence only lasted for 4-5 years there. That's just not enough time and space to have a significant influence on a culture.

As for why Alexander didn't continue his conquest in India, him being injured wasn't the only reason. The other reason was that his men were not familiar with the war elephants used in ancient Indian warfare when they fought King Porus (who ruled in Punjab at the time). Alexander's men had a difficult time dealing with the 200 war elephants that Porus used against them, but Alexander eventually won. After soon hearing about the Magadha Empire (which Ashoka later inherits) having 6000 war elephants, Alexander's men were reluctant to take on this many war elephants, and his advisors eventually convinced Alexander to return home (although he didn't really want to return).


As a South Asian myself who is fluent in Bengali, Sylheti, Hindu and Urdu (which are all Indo-Aryan languages derived from Sanskrit and Pali), I know for a fact that Deva refers to male deities and Devi refers to female deities. Furthermore, Deva is a common name for Indian males, while Devi is a common name for Indian females. In fact, in most Indo-Aryan languages, an "a" at the end of many words usually refers to males, while an "i" at the end of many words usually refers to females.

"Buddhism is 100 percent true"? Who are you to determine that conviction? Have you absorbed sufficient knowledge of various types of religions for you to come to that conclusion? According to the title of this thread, it is not just meek measuring of the Buddhist teaching, but you stated emphatically that it's 100 percent true. Meaning, it is absolute. If Buddhism is indeed to enlighten, then please, enlighten me by providing a few facts from other religious sources and we shall do a comparing experiment. We'll lay out Christianity, Buddhism, and numerous religious organizations and we'll test to see whether "Buddhism is 100 percent true" or not.

wow came out of no where with that...
probably didnt even read the posts...not that i blame him

Is Buddhism 100 percent true, who actually knows. However it brings me great comfort and closer to my belief when I believe animals