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Ino
confused.gif I never knew it was like this

QUOTE
Why China loves to hate Japan[size=4]

You don't have to look far to see why Chinese grow up learning to hate Japan. Take the forthcoming children's movie, "Little Soldier Zhang," which Beijing-based director Sun Lijun says he made having "learned a lot from Disney." The film chronicles the adventures in the 1930s of Little Zhang, a cute 12-year-old boy feeling his way through an unfriendly world. But the resemblance to Pinocchio ends there. After Japanese invaders shoot Little Zhang's grandmother in the back, the boy seeks revenge by joining an underground Red Army detachment. He moves among heroic Chinese patriots, sniveling collaborators and sadistic Japanese. The finale comes with Little Zhang helping blow up a trainload of Japanese soldiers and receiving a cherished reward: a pistol with which to kill more Japanese. "I thought about including one sympathetic Japanese character, but this is an anti-Japan war movie and I don't want to confuse anyone," says Sun, who will premier his film on International Children's Day.

Chinese kids can be forgiven for thinking Japan is a nation of "devils," a slur used without embarrassment in polite Chinese society. They were raised to feel that way, and not just through cartoons. Starting in elementary school children learn reading, writing and the "Education in National Humiliation." This last curriculum teaches that Japanese "bandits" brutalized China throughout the 1930s and would do so today given half a chance. Although European colonial powers receive their share of censure, the main goal is keeping memories of Japanese conquest fresh. Thousands of students each day, for instance, take class trips to the Anti-Japanese War Museum in Beijing to view grainy photos of war atrocities—women raped and disemboweled, corpses of children stacked like cordwood. As one 15-year-old girl in a blue and yellow school uniform, Ji Jilan, emerged from a recent visit to the gallery, she told a TIME correspondent: "After seeing this, I hate Japanese more than ever."

So it is not surprising that this nationalist animosity reaches the highest levels of government. The Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao, recently created shockwaves by saying he would refuse to meet with Japan's prime minister, Junichiro Koizumi, at a ground-breaking summit of East Asian nations that begins Monday. Reasons include rising Japanese nationalism and a recent visit by the Japanese Premier to the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo, which commemorates Japan's war dead, including some war criminals from the time of Japan's invasion of China in the 1930s. But underneath that diplomatic spat over history is a struggle for power and influence in East Asia that is increasingly straining Beijing-Tokyo relations. "The China-Japan relationship in the near term is more tense and worrisome than the potential for conflict elsewhere in the region," says Thomas Christiansen, an expert in Asian security at Princeton University.

Of course, nobody expects China to forget the past. The war launched by Japan's militarist leaders killed an estimated 20 million Chinese. During the Rape of Nanjing in 1937-38, soldiers butchered 300,000 civilians, according to Chinese figures. Most Japanese are aware of what happened but their society has never engaged in the type of introspection common in Germany after the Holocaust. Carefully worded official apologies have landed far short of the five-star kowtow demanded by Beijing, senior Tokyo officials occasionally deny atrocities and just last April a new government-approved textbook written by right-wing groups downplayed the wartime brutality visited on civilians.

The problem is that just as Japanese soldiers once dehumanized Chinese, Beijing's propaganda often paints Japanese as pure monsters. Grade school textbooks recount the callous brutality of Japanese soldiers in graphic detail, and credit the Communist Party with defeating Japan. (Another reason for Japan's surrender, it says, was the atomic bombs dropped by the U.S.) More moderate voices are silenced. A 2000 film by one of China's leading directors, Jiang Wen, remains banned because it depicted friendliness between a captured Japanese soldier and Chinese villagers. Although the film showed plenty of brutality, censors ruled that "Devils at the Doorstep" gave viewers "the impression that Chinese civilians neither hated nor resisted Japanese invaders."

Why keep up the propaganda onslaught 60 years after Japan's surrender? Many suspect China's unelected leaders hope to use anti-Japan sentiment to buttress their own legitimacy. Ever since the Tiananmen Massacre of 1989, support for the Communist Party has rested on the shaky foundation of economic growth. Nationalism, by contrast, could prove more enduring. "Reviving war memories keeps the nation united against Japan, and behind the party," says Beijing-based writer Liu Xiaobo. It's a risky strategy. Anti-Japan sentiment grew into rowdy street protests in Beijing and Shanghai in April, which the quickly government suppressed for fear they could spin out of control. But until China's leaders have some new pillar of legitimacy, Liu predicts, "the Japanese will stay devils in China."


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1139759,00.html

Your thoughts and opinions?

Educational Debate please ~ No Flame wars intended kiss.gif
sinocentrique
I somewhat agree to a certain extent.

But the fact is Japan and China have been enemies for a long time from the ming dynasty to the first sino japanese war to WW2 etc etc etc

It's not so much the communist party encouraging it, It's that Chinese in general love to hate Japan.
ktchong
The title article is ignorant. It is really not just China that hates Japan. It is all Chinese people in general -- that include Chinese from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia and America. The only exceptions are some Taiwanese who are pro-independence. Pro-independence Taiwanse are almost always pro-Japanese as well. In fact, many Chinese like myself are not really against Taiwan independence, but we really despise Chinese who are pro-Japanese. We treat them as traitors. Seriously, I do not really care if Taiwan is independent or not, but sometimes I would wish that China would get back Taiwan just so China would prosecute those traitorous dogs! Those traitors are quite easy to spot. They usually have Japanese name or like to pose in Japanese kimono (if they are female.) We have a couple of them in AsiaFinest, but I haven't found the opportunity to harrass them. icon_wink.gif

So, with the exceptions of those Taiwanese, Chinese everywhere hate Japanese just the same, whether they are from China or not. Take me for an example. I was not born, educated nor raised in China. I have only been to China as a tourist a few times. In fact, I have never read anything from the communist China. The only China's media product I have watched is the movie "Hero". But as a Chinese, I hate Japanese just the same as most any Chinese do. Now, I don't hate individual Japanese. Most Japanese are really polite people But I hate them as a group, as a nation, as a race. I hate Japanese for what they did to my ancestors, relatives and brethren.

Many well-known anti-Japanese Chinese activists and writers come from outside China. In fact, most came from Hong Kong (before it was returned to China) and Singapore. A good example is Iris Chang, who wrote "The Rape of Nanking." She clearly shown her hatred for Japanese in her book, was a Chinese born and raised in America. (And Japanese shown their hatred for her too. They rejoiced when she committed suicide.)

Most Chinese I know in American, Singapore and Australia dislike if not outright despise Japanese. Many Chinese who hate on Japanase in the Chinese chat here have never even been to China. We were not born, educated, raised nor "brainwashed" in China. How does that article explains us? Japanese just want to blame the problem on the CCP instead of their own sins because they want to believe it is the CCP that is evil and not them, they want Chinese to believe it is the CCP that has unjustly vilified them.

The point is most Chinese, in and out of China, hate Japanese. Chinese from outside China, who have never been to or lived in China, hate Japanese just the same. How can Japanse explain that? They can't, so they just ignore it.

It is not just China that hates Japan. It is Chinese that hate Japan.
big_d!ck
^ so much hates....tsk tsk tsk
ktchong
^ I don't live my life hating Japanese everyday. I don't think about or deal with Japanese everyday. But when people mention them or when I bump into the subject, then I would say, sure, I hate them. Then I move on from the topic and get back to my business.
hanzhongrenshi
This article is typical western one. That is why I hate the west the most.

They constantly demonize China(CCP),on the another hand portraying Chinese people as brainwashed.They know fu-k of Chinese people,its not China want to grab the headline other than these greedy west media have those rumours for publicity. Those stupid violent anti-Japan mobs only a very very tiny part of Chinese population. If we had a enemy,it is not Japan but The United States of America.I wouldnt conceal my hatred to West who never feel tired to b!tch about China. Those China-bashing guys who accuse Chinese people of being brainwashed are the real ones have been brainwashed,say,those who blaim our military expansion and our "cheap" labours caused their deficit while they dont look themseleves in mirror and dont sell their products to China. Saying Chinese hate Japanese while they make the whole world hate China.If China was devil why the fu-k they dont leave China with their dirty money(investment) wrung out of former colonialism?
Suijen
Why does everyone keep bringing up the legitimacy thing? Wai guo ren really gotta check up on their Chinese history/culture knowledge.
mobi3232
^exactly to above posts.

I have yet to see a good article come out of Time Asia. For something that supposedly focuses on Asia, it is extremely biased. The regular Time, while still superficial in coverage, at least is not so biased with demonizing the CCP or China. anyway, I was going to reply to this in a more thorough manner, but I get tired of responding to this topic. I will just say that the situation is much more complicated that what the magazine suggests.
Suijen
Honestly, it's hard to not get pissed at what happened.
Bilbo
QUOTE(ktchong @ Jul 7 2006, 12:02 AM) [snapback]2027533[/snapback]

Now, I don't hate individual Japanese. Most Japanese are really polite people But I hate them as a group, as a nation, as a race. I hate Japanese for what they did to my ancestors, relatives and brethren.


this doesn't make any sense...i take it you mean you hate japanese war criminals and rightwingers

and no i'm not pro-japan, i hate mindless worshipping of any race
kunomchu
QUOTE(Bilbo @ Jul 7 2006, 01:44 AM) [snapback]2027848[/snapback]

this doesn't make any sense...i take it you mean you hate japanese war criminals and rightwingers

and no i'm not pro-japan, i hate mindless worshipping of any race


It is more complicated than that. Also, hate is such a strong word. I think most Chinese are just annoyed by the Japanese (as a nation) for political, security, and economic reasons.

1. Japanese have tried to wash WWII actrocities (Yasukuni, Textbook)
2. Japanese have wacko leaders whom are democratically elected by Japanese people (Ishihara, JP FM)
3. Japanese are competing with Chinese for natural resources in the world market (Siberian pipeline)
4. Japanese interfere in Taiwan affairs (colonialism, LTH connection and strategic alliance with ROC)
5. Japanese have a kind of weird culture that is easy to make fun of (Japanese media & Fashion)
6. Remilitarization of Japan is always in our minds (Rewriting of constitution)
7. Chinese always think Japanese owe their economic success only to U.S Occupation (War criminals have been able to become prime ministers).
8. Many Chinese think Japan got off easy compared to Germany
9. Chinese also personify Japanese as decieving people whom they cannot trust. (informal apologies are not recognized).
10. Chinese also feel that they should revive the Middle Kingdom World order that existed for so long in our pride history and feel that Japan is an obstacle as it has had so much economic success.
11. Symbolism of Japanese militarism is still very present. (Japanese imperial flag with the rising sun is widely regarded as good in Japan while in Germany, the swastika has been outlawed).
12. Japanese tried to excuse their own wartime agression by comparing it to that of the CCP. (2 completely different scenarios and intents).
13. Japanese also want the EU to not lift its arms embargo to the CCP.

I must note these are only my opinions but I do believe many other Chinese feel the same way I do.
Takashi
QUOTE(ktchong @ Jul 7 2006, 05:02 AM) [snapback]2027533[/snapback]

The only exceptions are some Taiwanese who are pro-independence.

And Chinese in England embarassedlaugh.gif

Edit: born in England
chynagongju
I don't hate Japanese people in general. Government is a different issue. Those that deny the atrocities is a different issue.

Anyways, that movie described is realistic I guess. A lot of that kind of sentiment and events happened in the past, and he's just bringing the past to light. That's not to say that ALL movies coming out of China hate Japanese people.

Propaganda exists I'm sure, but to the extreme extent the article suggests? I don't think so.
shaolin01
its about Face... what else more do you people not understand? Both China and Japan are not willing to show each other face. End of story.
Ino
hm.. interesting...

Germany did have it tougher than Japan after WWII... The division of Germany to say the least
Gatts
QUOTE(shaolin01 @ Jul 7 2006, 01:33 PM) [snapback]2029742[/snapback]

its about Face... what else more do you people not understand? Both China and Japan are not willing to show each other face. End of story.

lol you must be chinese..
man havent heard the word face use like that in a while biggthumpup.gif
chilli21
QUOTE(ktchong @ Jul 7 2006, 02:02 PM) [snapback]2027533[/snapback]

The title article is ignorant. It is really not just China that hates Japan. It is all Chinese people in general -- that include Chinese from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia and America.


shut up, hate is a strong word and don't generalise all chinese which makes us look bad. other chinese outside china have negative feelings about japanese right-wing people but overall they don't care about foreigners (esp singapore), just like how the average japanese don't really care about foreigners either.
supapimp
japanese are responsible for killing 30-50 million people in WW2
mikekk86
QUOTE(ktchong @ Jul 6 2006, 11:02 PM) [snapback]2027533[/snapback]

The title article is ignorant. It is really not just China that hates Japan. It is all Chinese people in general -- that include Chinese from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia and America. The only exceptions are some Taiwanese who are pro-independence. Pro-independence Taiwanse are almost always pro-Japanese as well. In fact, many Chinese like myself are not really against Taiwan independence, but we really despise Chinese who are pro-Japanese. We treat them as traitors. Seriously, I do not really care if Taiwan is independent or not, but sometimes I would wish that China would get back Taiwan just so China would prosecute those traitorous dogs! Those traitors are quite easy to spot. They usually have Japanese name or like to pose in Japanese kimono (if they are female.) We have a couple of them in AsiaFinest, but I haven't found the opportunity to harrass them. icon_wink.gif

So, with the exceptions of those Taiwanese, Chinese everywhere hate Japanese just the same, whether they are from China or not. Take me for an example. I was not born, educated nor raised in China. I have only been to China as a tourist a few times. In fact, I have never read anything from the communist China. The only China's media product I have watched is the movie "Hero". But as a Chinese, I hate Japanese just the same as most any Chinese do. Now, I don't hate individual Japanese. Most Japanese are really polite people But I hate them as a group, as a nation, as a race. I hate Japanese for what they did to my ancestors, relatives and brethren.

Many well-known anti-Japanese Chinese activists and writers come from outside China. In fact, most came from Hong Kong (before it was returned to China) and Singapore. A good example is Iris Chang, who wrote "The Rape of Nanking." She clearly shown her hatred for Japanese in her book, was a Chinese born and raised in America. (And Japanese shown their hatred for her too. They rejoiced when she committed suicide.)

Most Chinese I know in American, Singapore and Australia dislike if not outright despise Japanese. Many Chinese who hate on Japanase in the Chinese chat here have never even been to China. We were not born, educated, raised nor "brainwashed" in China. How does that article explains us? Japanese just want to blame the problem on the CCP instead of their own sins because they want to believe it is the CCP that is evil and not them, they want Chinese to believe it is the CCP that has unjustly vilified them.

The point is most Chinese, in and out of China, hate Japanese. Chinese from outside China, who have never been to or lived in China, hate Japanese just the same. How can Japanse explain that? They can't, so they just ignore it.

It is not just China that hates Japan. It is Chinese that hate Japan.


Too much hate. U make it seem like the Chinese genetically hate Japanese.....


QUOTE(supapimp @ Jul 8 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]2031817[/snapback]

japanese are responsible for killing 30-50 million people in WW2

Where are the other countries. It was a world war.
toronto_chinese
QUOTE(hanzhongrenshi @ Jul 7 2006, 01:08 AM) [snapback]2027760[/snapback]

This article is typical western one. That is why I hate the west the most.

They constantly demonize China(CCP),on the another hand portraying Chinese people as brainwashed.They know fu-k of Chinese people,its not China want to grab the headline other than these greedy west media have those rumours for publicity. Those stupid violent anti-Japan mobs only a very very tiny part of Chinese population. If we had a enemy,it is not Japan but The United States of America.I wouldnt conceal my hatred to West who never feel tired to b!tch about China. Those China-bashing guys who accuse Chinese people of being brainwashed are the real ones have been brainwashed,say,those who blaim our military expansion and our "cheap" labours caused their deficit while they dont look themseleves in mirror and dont sell their products to China. Saying Chinese hate Japanese while they make the whole world hate China.If China was devil why the fu-k they dont leave China with their dirty money(investment) wrung out of former colonialism?


why they don't leave china? because a typical chinese like you are so fond of the foreigners.
Suijen
QUOTE(mikekk86 @ Jul 8 2006, 12:34 PM) [snapback]2032314[/snapback]

Too much hate. U make it seem like the Chinese genetically hate Japanese.....


We have more reason to hate them than to be fond of them. No, it's not genetic.

QUOTE(mikekk86 @ Jul 8 2006, 12:34 PM) [snapback]2032314[/snapback]

Where are the other countries. It was a world war.


I guess he includes Korea, Vietnam, and the Philipines.
ktchong
QUOTE(Takashi @ Jul 7 2006, 12:15 PM) [snapback]2029710[/snapback]

And Chinese in England embarassedlaugh.gif

Edit: born in England

Not really. I think Chinese are just good at not showing our hostility when we personally deal with Japanese. I have a few Japanese associates and even friends, and I keep my hostility in check when I am around them. I restrain myself and just be nice in general. I do not get into Sino-Japanese politics or history with them. I bet they will be very surprised if they find out what I think of their people and heritage.

Most Chinese are like me. So if you are Japanese and you have Chinese friends, just because we don't hate you in front of you does not mean we have forgotten or forgiven you for the atrocities you have committed against Chinese. We just do not show our hostility when we personally have to deal or work with Japanese people.


QUOTE(mikekk86 @ Jul 8 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]2032314[/snapback]

Too much hate. U make it seem like the Chinese genetically hate Japanese.....


It is cultural. Not genetic.

I think time will ultimately wash away the hatred, but it will happen only past three generations. That means the third generation from the war will have to die out before the hatred will gradually ceased, (i.e., I am the third generation from the WWII.) For example, Chinese no longer hate England so much for the Opium Wars because it has already been over three generations, even though the Opium Wars have more negative impact on the Chinese culture than Sino-Japanese wars do. (i.e., It has been five or six generations since the last Opium War.) In Chinese culture, hatred generally does not get passed three generations.

But if another Sino-Japanese war breaks out, then the cycle of hatred starts over again. If the cycle restarts about three times within each three generations, (that means the hatred never gets passed three generations before a war and the cycle starts again,) then the hatred stays forever. So that works out to be about three wars/genocides in 100 years or five wars/genocides in 200 years. At that point the hatred truly become "blood fued" or "blood hate" that will never goes away.

That is what I have observed and generalized from Jews/Arabs, Christians/Muslims, Serbians/Croatians and some other people who are perpetually at war with each other and despise each other even when they are not fighting. (i.e., Muslims have "blood hate" with A LOT of other people.) Chinese and Japanese are not at that point yet. So we will just have to wait until our generation die out, then things will work out by themselves.
rahul1000
What are really the chances for another Sino-Japanese war? I'd say very low. I know if Japan ever attacks China again, they will be more than happy to completely annihilate Japan probably.
Does anyone think that Japan may ever remilatarize again? I think the Chinese would put a stop to it because it even started, before they even have a chance to strike China if they wanted to.

If no more wars ever occur, the hate will go away......eventually, probably after we're all dead however.
But hey, look at how much Americans hated the Japanese in World War II, locking em up in detention camps and how a good chunk of em happily embrace their culture, wanting to be reincarnated into them in their next lives, etc. Boy, have times changed, the same thing will hopefully happen with China and Japan, even though some Chinese and Japanese don't want that.
I'll be honest, I don't really like Pakistan and Muslims in general as well, don't know if I ever will. Ah hell, I don't blame the Chinese and Japanese if they continue to each each other for a long time, don't wanna be a hypocrite.
Takashi
QUOTE(ktchong @ Jul 9 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]2032735[/snapback]

Not really. I think Chinese are just good at not showing our hostility when we personally deal with Japanese. I have a few Japanese associates and even friends, and I keep my hostility in check when I am around them. I restrain myself and just be nice in general. I do not get into Sino-Japanese politics or history with them. I bet they will be very surprised if they find out what I think of their people and heritage.

Most Chinese are like me. So if you are Japanese and you have Chinese friends, just because we don't hate you in front of you does not mean we have forgotten or forgiven you for the atrocities you have committed against Chinese. We just do not show our hostility when we personally have to deal or work with Japanese people.

A number of the Chinese that I have encountered that were born in the UK dont even pay attention to the Japan-China situation, if its mentioned in the news then they'll know about it but they dont go out of their way to find out about it. The ones born here that do seem to be those whose parents are from the mainland. Then again it is the same with a number of the small number of Japanese I know born here, I dont know if its that we're just disinterested over here or what.

They're not mine. Maybe where you live, but not here. I've had conversations about it with a few born in the mainland, with some I agree, with others we end up agreeing to disagree icon_confused.gif A few friends that were born here (HK born parents) had no idea what the crap we were all talking about embarassedlaugh.gif It seems that in the Chinese schools here there isnt much emphasis on Nanking, a lot of the children stop going when they're about 14 or so, if their parents dont bring it up then they have no chance to learn about it so they end up knowing the basic idea but not the full extent of the atrocities thus they arent aware of any reason to hate.
mobi3232
^Takashi's right. my ABC cousins are like that, they are pretty ignorant of Chinese history.

on a personal level, past national history shouldn't matter anyway. who has control over what their ancestors did? it is more about current viewpoints. I don't have any prejudiced hatred or distrust on a personal level, that's for sure.

I don't know, in the faroff future, I would like to see this cycle of hate and distrust lessen or cease. but current political realities make that kind of unrealistic at this point. and yes, like ktchong mentioned, it is probably going to take another generation or so provided nothing bad happens in between.
chynagongju
QUOTE(mobi3232 @ Jul 9 2006, 11:15 PM) [snapback]2036179[/snapback]

^Takashi's right. my ABC cousins are like that, they are pretty ignorant of Chinese history.

on a personal level, past national history shouldn't matter anyway. who has control over what their ancestors did? it is more about current viewpoints. I don't have any prejudiced hatred or distrust on a personal level, that's for sure.

I don't know, in the faroff future, I would like to see this cycle of hate and distrust lessen or cease. but current political realities make that kind of unrealistic at this point. and yes, like ktchong mentioned, it is probably going to take another generation or so provided nothing bad happens in between.

ABC's are not ignorant of Chinese history. Just to let you know.

We understand the situation, but don't hate on the Japanese PEOPLE. As the ones living now really have nothing to do with the decisions made back in WWII.
mobi3232
QUOTE(chynagongju @ Jul 10 2006, 12:56 PM) [snapback]2036294[/snapback]

ABC's are not ignorant of Chinese history. Just to let you know.

We understand the situation, but don't hate on the Japanese PEOPLE. As the ones living now really have nothing to do with the decisions made back in WWII.


I know, I am just saying it only applies to my ABC cousins. they are completely ignorant.
chynagongju
QUOTE(mobi3232 @ Jul 9 2006, 11:59 PM) [snapback]2036309[/snapback]

I know, I am just saying it only applies to my ABC cousins. they are completely ignorant.

You should tell them? If their parents haven't told them or something, they probably wouldn't really know. Schools don't teach it at all.
mobi3232
QUOTE(chynagongju @ Jul 10 2006, 01:00 PM) [snapback]2036315[/snapback]

You should tell them? If their parents haven't told them or something, they probably wouldn't really know. Schools don't teach it at all.


yeah...maybe I should comment on it next time I see them...which is not often...
ktchong
Iris Chang wrote "The Rape of Nanking." Iris Chang was an ABC.

And groups like The Society for the Preservation of Asian Pacific War History (or something like that) were founded by ABCs. In fact, back when China was having the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution fiascos and when the PRC and Taiwan were competing for international (including Japanese) recognition as the true China, it was the overseas Chinese like ABCs, and Hong Kong and Nanyang Chinese who worked the hardesd to preserve the WWII history. Heck, I'm an ABC myself.
Takashi
QUOTE(mobi3232 @ Jul 10 2006, 05:15 AM) [snapback]2036179[/snapback]

^Takashi's right. my ABC cousins are like that, they are pretty ignorant of Chinese history.

ABC's generally have quite a bit of knowledge or so I've noticed, but BBCs.............eh..............it just seems like most dont care at all.
mobi3232
QUOTE(Takashi @ Jul 10 2006, 06:53 PM) [snapback]2036809[/snapback]

ABC's generally have quite a bit of knowledge or so I've noticed, but BBCs.............eh..............it just seems like most dont care at all.


never met any BBC's, well.. knowing and not caring might be a little different than just not knowing.
Takashi
QUOTE(mobi3232 @ Jul 10 2006, 04:37 PM) [snapback]2037322[/snapback]

never met any BBC's, well.. knowing and not caring might be a little different than just not knowing.

I mean they dont seem to care about finding out any information. It seems that the little they know is enough for them.
mobi3232
QUOTE(Takashi @ Jul 10 2006, 11:39 PM) [snapback]2037324[/snapback]

I mean they dont seem to care about finding out any information. It seems that the little they know is enough for them.


ah ok. well I guess every person is entitled to handling it their own way. some have just never heard about the past, others choose to not really care, there are others that care.

QUOTE

And groups like The Society for the Preservation of Asian Pacific War History (or something like that) were founded by ABCs. In fact, back when China was having the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution fiascos and when the PRC and Taiwan were competing for international (including Japanese) recognition as the true China, it was the overseas Chinese like ABCs, and Hong Kong and Nanyang Chinese who worked the hardesd to preserve the WWII history. Heck, I'm an ABC myself.


yes, I know about overseas Chinese have been negatively acted upon for their support of China in the past. I don't think the CCP did enough to bring out WWII history at the correct time, now is probably too late to have any effect, at least to the people who actually lived through it. icon_confused.gif
Chinese DesertFox
QUOTE(chynagongju @ Jul 9 2006, 11:56 PM) [snapback]2036294[/snapback]

ABC's are not ignorant of Chinese history. Just to let you know.

We understand the situation, but don't hate on the Japanese PEOPLE. As the ones living now really have nothing to do with the decisions made back in WWII.

Jess, you're the most ignorant ABC of them all.
Suijen
^ I agree with Xu.
chynagongju
QUOTE(Chinese DesertFox @ Jul 10 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]2037628[/snapback]

Jess, you're the most ignorant ABC of them all.

Thanks Xu. beerchug.gif

QUOTE(Suijen @ Jul 10 2006, 01:10 PM) [snapback]2037642[/snapback]

^ I agree with Xu.

beerchug.gif
Chinese DesertFox
QUOTE(chynagongju @ Jul 10 2006, 09:32 PM) [snapback]2038533[/snapback]

Thanks Xu. beerchug.gif
beerchug.gif

icon_sad.gif
catman
Do Chinese textbooks teach about the attrocities committed during the Cultural Revolution?
hanzhongrenshi
QUOTE(catman @ Jul 11 2006, 05:51 AM) [snapback]2039648[/snapback]

Do Chinese textbooks teach about the attrocities committed during the Cultural Revolution?


Yeah,it is now beginning to reveal the truth.

Is it of any concern of Sino-Japanese relation?
epicanthics
CR was an internal problem. Not something that occured between two countries. Quite frankly, I think all the anti-Japanese bulsh going on in China is simply the result of a generation growing more politically knowledgable while at the same time having the ability to articulate their views on a wide range of issues stifled.

It certainly doesn't have to be this way. It seems we were on the right track in the 80s and early 90s. If there's anywhere to put a trigger on where relations went downhill, it'd probably be Koizumi's Yasukuni visits. I had hoped that maybe things will be better once he steps down (the Chinese side will always be the hardass it is for the time being), but given his likely successors, there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.
Suijen
QUOTE(hanzhongrenshi @ Jul 11 2006, 05:26 AM) [snapback]2039685[/snapback]

Yeah,it is now beginning to reveal the truth.

Is it of any concern of Sino-Japanese relation?


UGH, another blame shift.

Believe me, the Chinese know about the CR better than you'll ever, ever, ever know.
chynagongju
QUOTE(catman @ Jul 11 2006, 05:51 AM) [snapback]2039648[/snapback]

Do Chinese textbooks teach about the attrocities committed during the Cultural Revolution?

And this has to do with this topic how?
Musashino
QUOTE(kunomchu @ Jul 7 2006, 03:34 AM) [snapback]2028242[/snapback]

It is more complicated than that. Also, hate is such a strong word. I think most Chinese are just annoyed by the Japanese (as a nation) for political, security, and economic reasons.

1. Japanese have tried to wash WWII actrocities (Yasukuni, Textbook)
2. Japanese have wacko leaders whom are democratically elected by Japanese people (Ishihara, JP FM)
3. Japanese are competing with Chinese for natural resources in the world market (Siberian pipeline)
4. Japanese interfere in Taiwan affairs (colonialism, LTH connection and strategic alliance with ROC)
5. Japanese have a kind of weird culture that is easy to make fun of (Japanese media & Fashion)
6. Remilitarization of Japan is always in our minds (Rewriting of constitution)
7. Chinese always think Japanese owe their economic success only to U.S Occupation (War criminals have been able to become prime ministers).
8. Many Chinese think Japan got off easy compared to Germany
9. Chinese also personify Japanese as decieving people whom they cannot trust. (informal apologies are not recognized).
10. Chinese also feel that they should revive the Middle Kingdom World order that existed for so long in our pride history and feel that Japan is an obstacle as it has had so much economic success.
11. Symbolism of Japanese militarism is still very present. (Japanese imperial flag with the rising sun is widely regarded as good in Japan while in Germany, the swastika has been outlawed).
12. Japanese tried to excuse their own wartime agression by comparing it to that of the CCP. (2 completely different scenarios and intents).
13. Japanese also want the EU to not lift its arms embargo to the CCP.

I must note these are only my opinions but I do believe many other Chinese feel the same way I do.


I agree somewhat, except for...

2. Japan isn't a democracy. Its leaders have been using age-old gerrymandering to expand their constituency. Why else would the LDP strenuously support its farmers by erecting high tarriff walls for its agricultural market? Japan as a democracy is laughable because that would mean it's comparable to U.S.-style democracy, when it isn't.

4. Japan, China and U.S. interfere in Taiwan's affairs, I don't see why Japan should be singled out.

5. Weird in a few instances, but fascinating overall. Their J-Pop industry is a marvel.

7. Ridiculous thing to say, because if that were 100% true, the Japanese economy would've collapsed once McArthur left for the U.S. Besides, before WWII, Japan was already one of the biggest economies in the world.

8. Both were carpet-bombed back to the stone ages; Japan was hit with an additional 2 nuclear bombs. In terms of war crime trials, I agree the Japanese side were treated relatively easy compared to the Germans.

9. Well, you can't please everyone. I doubt the Japanese care too much at this moment, seeing as China isn't such a popular country there as well.

11. The Hinomaru was used as the official flag before the Meiji Restoration, so I don't see how it should be tied to Japanese militarism. The Japanese naval ensign, however, was the one that symbolised Japanese militarism and nationalism.
hanzhongrenshi
QUOTE(Musashino @ Jul 11 2006, 09:42 PM) [snapback]2041716[/snapback]

I agree somewhat, except for...
2. Japan isn't a democracy. Its leaders have been using age-old gerrymandering to expand their constituency. Why else would the LDP strenuously support its farmers by erecting high tarriff walls for its agricultural market? Japan as a democracy is laughable because that would mean it's comparable to U.S.-style democracy, when it isn't.
4. Japan, China and U.S. interfere in Taiwan's affairs, I don't see why Japan should be singled out.
5. Weird in a few instances, but fascinating overall. Their J-Pop industry is a marvel.
7. Ridiculous thing to say, because if that were 100% true, the Japanese economy would've collapsed once McArthur left for the U.S. Besides, before WWII, Japan was already one of the biggest economies in the world.
8. Both were carpet-bombed back to the stone ages; Japan was hit with an additional 2 nuclear bombs. In terms of war crime trials, I agree the Japanese side were treated relatively easy compared to the Germans.
9. Well, you can't please everyone. I doubt the Japanese care too much at this moment, seeing as China isn't such a popular country there as well.
11. The Hinomaru was used as the official flag before the Meiji Restoration, so I don't see how it should be tied to Japanese militarism. The Japanese naval ensign, however, was the one that symbolised Japanese militarism and nationalism.

4.Japan was singled out because of the topic.

7.8 was a pair of contradiction.

9,China is not popular in "western countries", just like the Russia was in Cold War. Popularity is nonsense,ideology determines it.

China as a nation doesnt not really care about Japan and Taiwan which both are cards played by China and USA.
catman
QUOTE(chynagongju @ Jul 11 2006, 01:10 PM) [snapback]2040601[/snapback]

And this has to do with this topic how?


It does seem hypocritical for the Chinese government to harp on a few textbooks that are being used in Japan while their own public education system refuses to acknowledge the attrocities committed during the CR.
W&N
QUOTE(Suijen @ Jul 7 2006, 12:12 AM) [snapback]2027768[/snapback]

Why does everyone keep bringing up the legitimacy thing? Wai guo ren really gotta check up on their Chinese history/culture knowledge.


You are right, dude. Most of the American here know sh!t about China, they even ask me if the University graduated student has to accept a job from government right now. How dumb @$$ they are, it only happens 20 years ago. They should re-educate their own people. They even portrait HK as a backward city, but actually HK is far more advance than most US cities. They don't even know where is middle east if US didn't attack Iraq.
Well, probably China's not a cilivized country, and their government brainwash everyone to hate Japan.
Then what about Korea? They should be very modernized. But do they love or like Japan? Then I guess, people might think there must be something wrong with those Korean too. I just don't understand, Japan and Korea are both America's Allies, why Korea hates Japan? did their government brainwash their people too?
Why Germany will be forgiven by all european countries? or even the whole world, and Japan can't?
Give me an excuse , and tell me all Chinese and Korean are brainwashed, and their hate toward Japan are non sense.
BigBenChow
QUOTE(catman @ Jul 12 2006, 07:21 AM) [snapback]2042904[/snapback]

It does seem hypocritical for the Chinese government to harp on a few textbooks that are being used in Japan while their own public education system refuses to acknowledge the attrocities committed during the CR.


It is also hypocritical for Westerns to keep mentioning about how China "Brutally" invaded Tibet when western civilizations did the exact same thing to the Native Indians in North America and Australia.
epicanthics
QUOTE(catman @ Jul 12 2006, 06:21 AM) [snapback]2042904[/snapback]

It does seem hypocritical for the Chinese government to harp on a few textbooks that are being used in Japan while their own public education system refuses to acknowledge the attrocities committed during the CR.


The situation is VERY different. The CR in itself is a terrible example to use to point out hypocrisy, in that in many ways, everyone was a victim, government and people all. Tibet would have been a much better example, though again, the same basic principle applies depending on whether you paint the situation as domestic or between two governments. The difference is the same between assault and self-mutilation.
chynagongju
QUOTE(catman @ Jul 12 2006, 06:21 AM) [snapback]2042904[/snapback]

It does seem hypocritical for the Chinese government to harp on a few textbooks that are being used in Japan while their own public education system refuses to acknowledge the attrocities committed during the CR.

You should understand how it's different from an issue within a nation vs. an outsider attacking you.

You would tend to forgive a family member who wronged you versus someone outside your family.
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