I don't know if this has been talked about in here,...

but i wanted to hear what you guys have to say about this issue

I realize that marriage between first cousins and imidiate family members is not acceptable because of incestous relationship, and bad genes(birth defects)

but, I have always argued that marriage should not be limited to marrying other clans only...for example, I am a Xiong, and I can only marry girls who are not Xiong....It doesn't matter if the Xiong girl is from France, Austrialia or even China.

I think this is something that we need to get away from. I realize that back in the old days, we lived in villages, and each village basically was comprised of a different clan, so this was put in effect so you wouldn't inbreed into your own cousins or imidiate family members

however, I think that now, we should really look into this and talk about it....I also believe that this would unite our people more...we will not ask about the last names everytime we meet...i mean, we put too much emphassis on the last name

and if bad genes is the only reason, then we should think about why it is alright to marry our aunts daughter, but not our uncles daughter....

Speak for yourself brotha....I ain't tabooing anytime soOn.

i say you should just stick to marying the other clan not ur own clan even if you dont know them and they have the same last name, because im sure their somehow related to you but you just dont know. so no matter how good the chick or guy look forget it dawg it not worth it. and being mary to ur aunt daughter is just worng to that how i see it cuz ur just marying ur cousin. and the thing about marying the other clan is to bring ppl together, bring the differnet hmong clan together.

Weird, but I totally agree with this one. However...I do have to correct you when you say that we are not allowed to marry first cousins...Hmong people are sick. They won't allow you to marry someone w/ the same last name even if there is no relation, but they'll let you marry your uncles or aunts daughters/sons as long as they don't have the same last name as you. Those are your first cousins! Now that is incest. If my son wanted to date a Yang, I would be fine w/ it as long as they're not related in any kind of way-in other words, get checked out!!! I think in all honesty and truth that it's way too complicated to date a Hmong person. You have to worry about which clan they are from (remind yourselves that we are very limited here b/c not many clans exist), and then the elders always go digging for dirt on them or their relatives to see if they're suitable for you to date (you get b*tched at if they find any dirt). You have it just as hard as dating another race in my opinion...not to encourage or anything, but I'm just saying...PEACE!

That's funny, but yeah, I ain't tabooing anytime soon either, unless the world was gonna end in like two days, I'll taboo, but not with anyone with the same blood running through their veins.

I know that most Hmong people may have never even thought of this issue, but i figured if this was a serious forum, then i should bring it up and have us talk about it....I respect tradition and history, but sometimes traditions change because it's for the betterment of the people..

Everytime we meet another Hmong person, we always ask them for their last name...when we are told of their last name, we associate them with others of their clan, and we make a general assumption on them, weather it be true or not, so we are already biased before we even know the person.

This also works the opposite way...traditionally, if i am a Xiong guy, my parents(esspiccialy my dad) uncles, cousins will all say that i should love my cousins and be with them first before all others, because they'll will always be there, then they say that i should get to know this person or that person because they are Xiong's. Indirectly i am being told that no other clan will respect me as much as my clan, because i am a Xiong.....

We often go to speeches given by Doctorates and people of high education, and elders...they sometimes say that we Hmongs should love one another, but when they get home, they tell their kids and cousins to care for their clan first...hypocrite if you ask me

I really personally think that, if we were to get rid of this taboo, and are aloowed to marry with in our clan..as long as their is no blood relations, this would sove many of our problems that kept us(Hmong people) divided...

1. we would no longer worry so much about what each others last name is, and base people on who they are, and not on the experiences we have had with others of their clan

2. marriage would be cheaper, if not free from the dowry...and focused much more on the future of the newly weds...

3. we would be more united and compassionate about our Hmong people

I would prefer it if you guys really think about this issue and give me a well thought out explaination as to why you are for or against this....since this is for serious discussions....Hmong's united..peace out

^ okay, let get serious then. I'm not for it. The reason why? I donno, there are just some things you don't question. I'm not gonna marry another Vang because if I really think about it, I would rather have her as a sister rather then a wife. Plus, how are we going to unite as hmongs if we marry people from our own clan. We need to marry outside the clan to form a relationship. I had some pretty hot Vang girls talk to me, but I told them I'm a Vang too and it was nice to have met the sisters. Never have I thought about doing anything taboo like that. Even with my first cousins, or anyone I grew up with that are really close to me, just can't love them as a wife or girlfriend. The one person that I have ever loved with my heart and soul is my ex wife and her mom is a Vang, but we have no blood ties. Hell, this is confusing, every person is different. Do whatever you want people!!!!

I think its a disgrace to the elders if you being a yang and then marrying another yang person, I think its really difficult for two yang clans to sit up on the table and discussed marriage between the two, when same hmong clans marry each other, other hmong clans will probably laugh and say how stupid it is to marry your own clan, but then their are hmong-Americans who wants to defy our hmong rules and hope that they get away with it, aha sure, you must be a fool if you think you can lift the ban on same clan marriages, and I don’t see anything wrong with marrying your aunts daughter, your aunts daughter isn’t a yang or Vang or etc like you, even though she shares the same genes or blood as you she's isn’t in your clans name, she's your aunts husbands kid which is where she's different from you, even though this rule seems funny, hmong people don’t marry same clans, we can marry our cousins but we cannot marry our cousins if they the same last name, na'meen?....what’s so bad about marrying your cousin? Hmong parents believe that its better to marry an insider then an outsider isn’t this true? And when I say "insider" I don’t mean same last names but and insider close to your mother like her family.

You can marry same last name people if you want...your in America....Nobody can stop you.

Anyways it's still taboo....even if you "legalize" it I don't think everyone will be all happy and go "YEAH! I'll marry that person!" so go date Xiongs if you want.

^

I THINK I'M IN THE WRONG PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES.....I AM A HAPPLY MARRIED MAN WITH A BABY GIRL...AND NO I DIDN'T MARRY A XIONG

I LOOKED FOR A HMONG DISCUSSION FORUM IN THE INTERNET FOR SERIOUS TALK, BUT IT SEEMS SOME PEOPLE IN HERE ARE KIDS....

THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE THAT I WANT TO CHANGE BECAUSE OF ME, OR ANY CRAZY DISIRES...THIS ISSUE WAS BROUGHT UP, BECAUSE I FELT THAT IT WOULD BE HEALTHY TO TALK ABOUT IT, AMONGST MAYBE FELLOW MEMBERS OF MY HMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE OPEN MINDED AND ARE WILLIN TO DEBATE IT....SOME OF YOU JUST SAY, "I'M NOT GOING TO BREAK A TABOO," WITH OUT REALLY THINKING ABOUT THE ISSUES...

TRUELY THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBLITIES.....DON'T JUST CLOSE THE DOOR ON THIS ISSUE BECAUSE OHH, IT'S A TABOO

I'M NOT ADVOCATING THAT WE MARRY OUR SISTERS OR COUSINS...I'M SAYING THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT WHY IT SHOULD BE STILL BE TABOO TO MARRY MEMBERS OF OUR LAST NAMES...I WAS HOPING FOR SERIOUS TALK AND DEBATE...PEACE OUT

^ So are you suggesting you won't mind if your daughter eventually wanted to marry a Xyooj guy?

How much more serious do you want us to be?...you posted this on a forum...Just cuz you didn't get the answer you wanted to hear, you start cryin (caps lock ) and saying we're little kids.

Like I said before, this IS America...people love eachother they can marry eachother freely regardless of their name/orientation whatever.....but either way, you aint gonna be able to change the way everyone thinks man. Marrying someone with your own last name is just taboo to alot of Hmongs...it's not against any real laws....plus I don't think alot of us newer generation Hmongs really care about it as bad as the OG's....If two people marry eachother, and their last names are the same but they have no blood ties...then GREAT! Alot of people will say "EW!" but that's them.

And I see, now that I understand u aint lookin for none of that...

WELL FIRST OF ALL I'M NOT CRYING, SECONDLY I MADE THAT COMMENT TOWARDS THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO DODGE THE QUESTION AND USE IMMATURE WORDS OR TERMS TO LABEL ME....IF YOU TOOK OFFENSE TO MY COMMENT, THEN MAYBE YOU ARE A KID ...OHH, I FORGOT YOUR NAME IS "LILASIANKID"


THIRDLY, I JUST WANTED A DEBATE, NO NAME CALLING, BUT IF YOUR GOING TO SAY THAT I WAS CRYING BECAUSE I DIDN'T HEAR WANT I WANTED, WELL YOUR WRONG

I DON'T CARE IF YOU AGREE WITH ME, JUST TALK INTELEGENTLY, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE...I SAID IT BEFORE, I RESPECT TRADITION, BUT IF THIS WOULD LEAD TO A BETTERMENT OF OUR PEOPLE, THEN WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT IT...

WHY DO YOU GUYS AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME THAT I AM BRINING THIS TOPIC UP BECAUSE I WANT TO MARRY MY COUSIN OR A XIONG GIRL....I JUST WANT YOU GUYS TO THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU RESPOND BY USING IMMATURE WORDS THEN, WELL MAYBE YOU JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ISSUE AND ARE HAPPY WITH THE THINGS ARE, AND THINK THAT THIS TOPIC IS A JOKE, OR YOU THINK YOUR RESPONSE WILL MAKE OTHER PEOPLE THINK YOUR FUNNY...

I'M DONE WITH THIS TOPIC....PEACE OUT

Call me old fashion if u want but I don't agree with same last name marriage...how is it going to better our people? You marry someone from outside so that you can be more connected...why marry someone from the inside? I mean of course you could say, well i love them, and so forth...but if the person wants to marry someone that is consider their cousin/brother/sister, then they risk the blacken of their reputation....of course majority of the people are going to disagree...and it's probably going to take a long time for them to come to terms with it...

Here's another way look at it is, the people with the same last name as you are "suppose to be family". You may not be relatived to them by blood, but you always refer to them or regard them as, brothers/sisters/mother/father/grandma/grandpa...to me...I see it as wrong to enage in a relationship with them that would lead to marriage...

Hmmm, I think you got your debate....I dunno what more you want...anyways, bye!

I think we should change it too! I mean, come on...what the heck? Doesn't mean we have the asme last name, we're consider as COUSIN!..meaning we can't marry. -_-..that sucks huh?...But what can we do?...Nothing much.

I agree. Hmongs should change it like Vietnam. Vietnamese people can marry others with the same last name if their families' three generations are not related to each other.

Does that explain the numerous Nguyens and Trans? That's wack IMO. lol

Hell yea

no taboo for me.

OH MY...he probably left for reals...but who cares.


Not necessarily...well, if what you said is true I must be different WOOT WOOT I'm sure there are those who don't judge a person by their last names (and I'm one of them). --talk about being narrowminded


I really agree with you...




Someone said something like, "Maybe no Hmong person ever thought about this issue before." Well, that's false! I have thought about it, but I just don't bring it up...why? I don't think it's really that important. But now that someone did bring it out into the open...I'll share my thoughts.

I am against same last name marraiges (even if they have no relations whatsoever with each other). Why?
1) Are you trying to build up an empire to conquer other clans? (It can happen )

2) Trying to make a sense of same last name marraiges won't be really effective when you've got tons of people growing up with the knowledge of "YOU CAN'T MARRY THOSE THAT HAVE THE SAME LAST NAMES AS YOU" installed into their brain. I'll explain why I feel people feel that those words are important or what not.

Explanations on my two points:
1) It will be possible for clans to try and start building up an empire to conquer other clans...if one has a crazy imagination--that is, to even think this could happen...'cause y'all know that there are Hmongs who are greedy and they would so love to rule their people...but then again, even those greedy people probably won't allow their kids to marry a person who has the last name as the kids...why? I'll get to that in a minute in #2.

2) At a very very very young age, Hmong kids have been taught that it's just not right to marry someone who has the same last name as theirs and y'all know the why--they're like brothers and sisters...and what is taught shall be the same as they grow up right? I mean, it's like animals...you don't see an elephant hitting it off with a hippo. That's just wrong and you just don't question it...some might be wondering, "How is that suppose to be fit for an analogy for same last name marraiges?" Here: ELEPHANTS and HIPPOS are to ANIMALS as LAST NAMES are to HMONG PEOPLE (Hippos and Elephants: NO CAN DO!!! just like Xiong and Xiong )

Mory, you crack me up...LOL...but yeah...I agree...same last name marriage is a no no because I always regard them as family...

I like your explanations. You're pretty creative. You're right about hmong kids have been taught about this and that at a very young age by their parent or others about certain things that have been passed down from generation to generation. I know there are a lot of stuff that hmong are so proud of that they won't let go in order to receive more of what they don't have. I won't go into what that is because it will be off topic.

This topic and issue of ancestor marriage have been covered in the bible. If you want to know the truth, please read Leviticus 20

i think hmong people probably had reasons to make it a unspoken law to not allow same last name marriage (among SEA hmong) back in the old days but now i don't know what we should do. personally for me, i don't look at guys who have the same last name or who are closely related. i try to respect my parents beliefs as well as respect my own beliefs.

Man one of the other reason there is no tabooing is that you would disgrace elder and there would be no marriage and u would eventually become an outcast........but yea look at wat happen to the vang's being able to marry vangs back in the old country.........vang pao threaten to kill any vang person who decided to taboo so vang people threw away that tradition.....taboo is a freakin ghetto question.........

Not marrying someone in your clan is a tradition and not a law that you can just repel. Even if it became "allowed," generations of tradition will still prevail in the short run. Maybe if the seed is planted now, in the future, it will be acceptable, but it won't really benefit us now. Personally, I like that people marry outside of the clan because it encourages Hmongs of different clans to not only co-exist but to interact meaningfully. Sure, some people take the whole clan thing way too far, but I like that we have a unit of support outside of the immediate family.

taboo is forbidden in my family and i grew up knowing that. so nope...i won't taboo...niether will my future kids.

that was a specific vang clan and not the vang clan that my family are from. i actually know some of the vang people from the vang clan that did that. my mom said that a lot of the girls from that vang clan didn't get married.

i think it would have been to dangerous to marry your own last name back in the day (in laos) because of the power struggle between leaders with different last names. my dad's family and my mom's family were and are close with the people who were lthe big leaders back then.

i have to say that i agree. it doesnt seem to make sense that one can marry their BLOOD cousin but cannot marry on who is not related to them what so ever.i kinda believe that we do put some emphassis on peoples last names. i mean when u meet someone and you find out that you share the same last name you kind of just let go of it, and dont really talk to that person anymore.

i think that if somone wants to marry somone with the same last name go for it! if you really love each other and you can stand other people talkin smack.cuz i mean if you put urself in this situation you should know what you're getting yourself into. there are always both sides to a story.you can become hated...or you can inspire someone else.neither one is right or wrong. its just how people think.

i dont think that the hmong tradition is always right though. i mean a lot of the tradtion rules are passed down verbally. it isnt really written any where. (is it??LOL) but yeas.this is just what i think though.

I totally argee with both you and the thojxyooj. Doesn't mean that you have the same last name that you are related. You can be very far as of 4 or more generation. It is like, you ain't got that much same blood running through your veins. So, I understand if they don't have the same blood running in their body then that's fine but if they do then it's not fine. So, for example, if someone have Typed A blood and I have Typed A blood, does that mean that I can't marry that person just because we got the same Blood Typed??

For example, just look at other Asian races, they allow that to happen in their house hold, too. Even Mekas do that.

But..... It is wrong, no matter what.

For example, If your father pass away and your mother took you to go and live with the new family, meaning new father and siblings. Your step siblings will still be consider as your blood siblings even though they're aren't.

SICK... to even consider this thought - ur simply WACK... imagine doing paper work etc... have some disipline or SHAME... *sheesh*

Imagine this...

***a married couple w/the same last names in some public place where their information is needed***
Mr. & Mrs. Yang R at the doctors office filling out paper work


Mrs. Yang, "My name is 'so so' Yang."

Doctor, "Okay, and your maiden name please..."

Mrs. Yang, "Oh, it is 'Yang,' I'm a Yang as well, not by marraige or anything."

Doctor, "Okay..." ***completely puzzled and thinking, WTF are these people thinking, are the Fcking crazy - SICk ppl...***

Mr. Yang, "Oh, we have the same last names, but we are not related by blood or anything." *heh heh*

Doctor, "ughhh... Okay." ***WTF, sure... these weird @$$ azns r SICk!***


JUST SICK

well as for me I think theres a problem we Hmong peoples need to fix.....example! . .. i'm a guy...... N i can married my aunt's daughters.... which she dont have my last name..... but not my uncle's daughter because she carry the same last name as you are..... because we Hmong peoples carry our father's last name thats all...... it make no differents if you married either one......your uncle's have your last name N your aunt's have your last name too.......theres no differences...... i see nothing that is different.....both of the gurls still half N half of your last name......but the other half aint your last name its the same....I have talk to the elderlys about this before....but they seem to not be able to give me a good answer.....cause i was wright!..........about uncles N auntys daughters...... they are the same, no different....dude as for me i say............just let it go......... i koe sometime you run into gurls with the same last name N they look hecka fine....that aint relate to you at all....because they have the same last name.....you just cant ......Let me till you what!....................Hmong people who have the same last name, dont matter where they're from...... came out of one same gene.........so many years past by Hmong peoples scatter all around the world....N branch out very far...but keep in mind, that the same last name as you are...are still you brothers N sisters....thats why we Hmong need to be more organize.....Thats all i gotta say....My eyes are hurting now....later

thats wrong to marry with someone who has the same last name...it just won't feel right...but if ur not a thao..u don't have to worry much since a lot of thaos i seen are good looking...lol...so to all u thoj's..including me(yes i'm a thoj) lets feel sry for eachother..lol...but there is still other fish in the ocean right...hmoob yangs,lees,changs,vwjs,xiongs..and more...so no need to worry...lol

Hey. That's funny. Although, it is true what you have said. A lot of Thaos are pretty or handsome themselves. Not that the other ones aren't. Just that the majority that I have seen.

WE'RE ALL RELATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wat i heard is that you can marry anyone from yur mom side just not yur dad side...and dat they consider it tabooin if yur wit someone of the same last name including different race. For example if yur a lee, you can't be with a white girl with the last name lee...consider tabooin...just wat i heard........i dunno

EW!!! BUT okay! whoever wants to marry your own last name.

GO HEAD! LET'S SEE HOW YOUR KIDS TURN OUT~ DON'T BE SURPRISED K.. GOOD LUCK~

no that's not true. i mean it's not true that you can't marry someone of different but with same last name. so a hmong guy with the last name lee can marry a non-hmong girl with last name lee...as long as her biological father isn't a hmong nor her adopted father.

Sorry, but thats kind of odd ?

THOJXIONG,

I for one has been contemplating this issue for quite a while. Now, for a fact, I don't suppose we really know the exact truth as to why we weren't and aren't able to marry someone within our own surname, but I think as we come to understand today's modern age and technology, I am beginning to think there is a descprency between the issue.

First, there aren't that many Hmong Surnames around. As far as I know, there are only 18 (plus,minus). So we don't really have a lot to sift through.

Second, I have to agree with you as to why Hmong are allowed to marry off first cousins where THE BLOOD RELATION is so very close is beyond me. Is it just because they obviously "obtain" a different Surname? I mean, does that actually count while , oh, say I find another Hmong girl with my same Surname somewhere way in France whom I have COMPLETELY NO BLOOD RELATION with and whom I really love...OR if I do have any blood relationship, but it's like several generations apart?

Third, I believe our young Hmong people are well educated enough in the modern world to understand the distance in blood relations to marry one another regardless of Surnames. We can have DNA testing if that is a concern! I think it's becoming ridiculous to think that just because we have same Surname, we cannot be married to each other. This school of thought is for our parents, grandparents, and ancestors' generations who were well fed with this nonsense. It's time for a change.

Fourth, based on Science, the ONLY reason why anyone SHOULD NOT marry someone so close in blood relation to yourself is to prevent any "Abnormality" to your children. Just imagine how most Monarchs in countries like England, France (when still do have it), Japan have maintained their pure "Emperial Blood Line" for thousands of years? And some of them even marrying their own brothers or sisters. Now how gross can that be?

Last but not least, I don't mean any disrespect for our parents, grandparents, ancestors, or for the whole Hmong communities, but the notion that we are not supposed to marry someone within our Surname is pretty much a "CULTURAL" and "RELIGIOUS" thing and that needs to be changed. I believe it will be changed sooner or later. Just look around yourselves and see how many Hmong surnames have already been changed just because the countries where they now live allow them.

So for all of you fellow Hmongs out there who are open-minded about this issue, I say we should make a change!

If people can just follow the basic rule than everything should work out. Never marries someone with the same surname.

As for marrying same last names and are not blood related. Well, that's debatable but than it's more of an embarrassment. It's not that you can not... You can actually but you do need supports. Hmong people aren't too keen on helping you on that.

i think of it as... "ew", hahahaha.

ummm... it's taboo... but i find it to be rather dumb as it has no firm foundation to make it a reasonable taboo. i think we need a change... because Yangs are freakin' hot and there's so many Yangs out there, LMAO!!!

Go for it!

How is it "eww" when you like him so much?

It's not taboo if not blood related... I strongly believe that the elders create this taboo so it will serve as a means of avoiding marrying your own blood related sister/brother. For someone whom takes on another clan's surname, I think it's feasible to "taboo", besides wasn't my idea in the first place. Why should anyone play their games fairly?

I think the elders should go over our options to clarify this taboo subject as most youths are confused...

I know a black girl with the last name Young and a white boy with the last name Young also, does that mean they are related?

Thats the point y our culture is dying cuz you peeps keep on saying change it here and there soon it will be, "f*** that sh** lets change everything." If you see a hot gurl and you figure out she has the same last name, it doesnt matter there's plenty of gurls out there..........live with it and move on man...........if you marry a gurl with the same last name how you going to face ur relatives and ur friend.........answer that question.....you know what they be thinking, "how the hell did he marry a gurl with the same last name" or vice-versa................its just something we were taught not to do so dont do it.........

californiagrl Posted May 30 2007, 02:13 AM
I know a black girl with the last name Young and a white boy with the last name Young also, does that mean they are related?

No it doesnt mean they are related or anything and its okay if they do it anywaise, but its a whole different thing from marrying some one with the same last name..........because back then when the black people were free they didnt know what name to take after so they took their masters last name thats y there are white and black people with the last name as young........thats y when malcom started protesting he changed his name to malcom X because he didnt know his real last name so he just changed it to X

bad comparison to Hmongs.

^lol okay okay your right! then before marrying someone with the same last name they should take a blood test to see whether they are at all related or not.

Screw the last name $hit, I'm gettin tired of gettin turned down just because the last name $hit. If you ain't blood related then holla..