Comfort

Hmong seem to be comfortable in their diaspora which means theres no need according to Hmong
for a country. "The idea is outdated" they think. "Its the 21st century, we cant do it" Montenegro?

Lack of Cohesion in the Community.

The truth of the matter is, most Hmong don't wanna share their slice of the pie with other Hmong.
There might be community in places like Minnesota, California, Paris etc but Hmong have been living in the
West for decades and as a result, have took the idea of Western individualism way too far. Chinese
are in the West, still keep their values. Koreans move to the West, still keep some of their values.
Hmong move to the West, its fu-k you and pay me when I see you. If Jews acted the same way
during the 1948 War, just imagine..they wouldnt have a Homeland today. Yes, thats not to say that they
were perfect, because there were was factions everywhere..but the factions that did form were smart enough
to know that no matter what our beliefs are, we are all aiming for one thing: a Jewish homeland.

Hmong don't have cohesiveness.

Lack of allys

During the early days and height of Zionist movement, Jews had much intellectual and politcal support from
the British. Hmong can't get this kind of support due the fact that Hmong are lacking in the intellectual arena and the few intellectuals that do exist don't think that a Hmong country is possible. Furthermore, Hmong seem to have this attitude that the World's boundaries have been laid and foundations have been set so that theres no more room for a Hmong country, but this is completely untrue. Once again, Montenegro is a prime example of this.

Few, if any, intellectual figures

As stated above, Hmong communities lack intellectual figures, and intellectual figures interested in
any sort of Hmong Independence movement or soverignty is nonexistant. Zionism was the main force for creating a Jewish homeland. Jewish (and some non-Jewish) intellectuals sought to create cultural, politcal, and societial foundations for their people. Jews further improved this by actively enacting the ideas of intellectuals in their growing communities.

Gimme my money

Like I stated in the beginning, with most Hmong its fu-k you and pay me when you see me.
This type of mentality ensures that Hmong never get a homeland. When the Jews finally held their little conf. and meetings, they realized that they couldnt take land through immediate force. So what did they do? They formed Jewish organizations and bought plots of farmland and created housing settlements and towns. Eventually, through small scale populating and organizations watching over these communities, Jews were able to convience the British to sign an agreement OKing the need for a Jewish homeland. Arabs werent too happy but the fact is that they knew their $hit.

All the fighting came later and they did have problems with the British, but the fact is that they were able to
secure land through legal means and got international support to do so.

With the fu-k you, pay me mentality, Hmong cant even achieve the first step.

Locations

Being a ethnic minority sandwiched between two Authoritarian regimes must be difficult, especailly for the
poor Hmong freedom fighters (prob less than 15 left) hiding out. Truth is, even if Hmong did get together and
finally decide to have better good will towards each other, neither China nor Laos would probably give it up easily, even if hmong were heavily populated there. Jews had the same issue early on. Many Zionist proposed places like Argentina, Russia, & even Nigeria and North Africa. What iam saying here is that somewhere, there are always options availible. The whole idea of comfort comes into play again. Most Hmong like to stay put and dont like to move when its time to move. Thailand's Isan region would be a ideal place then, especially since Thailand is a democratic country with voting abilities, this makes things like a referendum possible. Theres opportunity, will Hmong take it? Probably not.

[quote]
especially since Thailand is a democratic country with voting abilities, this makes things like a referendum possible. Theres opportunity, will Hmong take it? Probably not[quote]especially since Thailand is a democratic country with voting abilities, this makes things like a referendum possible. Theres opportunity, will Hmong take it? Probably not[/quote]

R you kidding? The majority in Issan still Thaipeople Do you think they will vote for you? and know some thing ,You R Not Thai ,You have no RIGHT to vote any thing. just continue your day dream

montenegrin highlanders and serbs who consider themselves montengerins are native to it. hmongs (or miaos outside of china whatever you prefer) inhabit lands of countries laid claims to prior.

just to add to your article.

I was just stating the fact that a referendum can be done regardless of whether they were historically settled or not.

kaiwen, the Jews were in the same situation Hmong was in. Just because Jews do that nowadays doesnt mean hmong people will have the same attitude or behavior.

GusZ, if theres a big enough Hmong population, the Isaan's votes won't matter.

hmong people are like people who just came out of the cave and been existing only for the last 500 years, we are a fresh group of Asians who are still evolving unfortunately for us others have evolve much quicker and superior then us and we understand this. unlike the Jews we did not have thousands of millions of people, we did not have a religion like Jesus god or what ever, we had our own private beliefs that only we go by...we don’t promote our practices to no body we don't try to make people like us, we just try to live and not die, we didn’t care about cool armored or gun power or any kinds of military power, we just village people, we just farmers who just came out of the cave and the world has evolve beyond our time, but we our pushing ahead, we're modernizing with society we are force to change so quickly and adapt, the Chinese has evolved thousands of years ahead of us and we know this that’s why we just run to a safer place to live, we're not barbarians, how can we be barbarians when we don’t even have great armies like the Mongol’s or Japanese. All we do is defend our self’s as best as we know, other Asian has a country an so on to brag about we don’t have much, and this mystery about us is our significance.

hey troll waddup where's the love?

we all know miao home is china exactly where they originated from.
and this goes out to all the other 50 minority groups existing now in china too.

why complain here about their past mistakes?

if you want some real answers go to real miao forums.
i don't think you'll get feedbacks here unless you're only doing this for a different purpose..

Miao people's original home is China.

Not every ethnic group has their own country and neither does every country consists of a single ethnic group.

If every ethnic group had their own countries then there would literally thousands of countries.

During the end of Ming dynasty there were Chinese philosophers who proposed that every ethnic group should have their own country and live their own lives and not interfare with others

as Han people were on the recieving end of invasion by the Manchus but he was probrably only wished Manchus would simply leave the Han people alone

but of course the manchus would not simply because they were winning and ultimately conquered the Han people but eventually both Han and Manchus have became good brothers, therefore neither would the Han people today let any one of the ethnic groups have their own countries but will do their best not to interfare with their own cultures and give them as much autonomy as possible and hopefully one day we can all be great brothers also.

According to this person's thoughts from this other topic, I must ask, "Why is it that Indians/Native Americans don't have a country of their own as well?" *painted in red up there would be the answer that I'd give*



And NOW, living in the US, there have been tremendous alternations in many things in such a SHORT period of time that segragates the Hmong people from each other, such as: the variations of life styles that exists among the Hmongs and---what I consider to be one of the top method of segragation: religion, ect. So, that is why Hmongs will "never" have their own country. And also because most of the Hmongs (including other ethnicites) have fallen into the trap of HEGEMONY leading them into being exactly what their country wants them to be: replicas of every other ethnicities that are ruled by a different ethnicity...and that "ruler" keeps them (Hmongs and others) very low at the bottom while they eat up the whole damn cake 'cause they think they tough and are way superior than others.

Hmong people can't be one if they don't worship one God. Nobody in this world is going to give hmong a piece of land anywhere. Every nation and ethnic group worship some sort of god or spiritual being. Who does hmong people worship? Nobody!

And jacoc316...you're one perfect example of why Hmongs would NEVER have their own country and a very perfect example of what I meant when I stated what I stated in the earlier post...it is seen through your reply And no where in the BOOKS OF LAWS says that for one ethnic to have a country of their own they HAVE TO worship a god OR your god and NOT ANCESTORS...and your answer to who Hmong worship is wrong...as far as I know...you can't put a claim to what you don't know exactly...'cause there are Hmongs who follows a belief (and you should know better to understand what they believe in or follow) or they're simply atheist (<--and you got that part right but the other half, you didn't even manage to mention it at all). And please let's not get to religion--AGAIN---before you're the instigator who closes down this thread...just like that other one Maybe I shouldn't type out the word "RELIGION" ever again because there will always be this constant, "MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOURS" comment hiding behind your replies. GOSH...can't even mention that damn word with the continuation of going on topic.

How could I be a perfect example when you have set a standard that I couldn't never ever reach? There are too many people like you that don't know their purpose in life and the creation of life. You came from nothing to a person to a human being. Have you ever question how you became who you are? It is more than just the birds and the bees thing. Somebody someone put you here for a special purpose.

You worship? Tell me who do you worship to? Hope it is not what I think it is.

you are but for now...let's just say your blinds are closed...and must i always have to repeat myself? i shouldn't...if i said it once or twice and even a thousand times before...i think you'll not ever understand it.

it's not about a size dude ,wake up and see what's a real world , Why should we care to your daydream vote?? huh. why?? you think one day you get enough population and then come to Thailand,Our MAJESTY land! , and then you say "Hey we have enough men and we already decide to take your land so give it to our" ??? let hope you and your people can survive from our military force.... it's some thing that impossible for any country to accept a deal like this!

Sometimes I can’t comprehend why people who have countries of their own do not live in it?

Hey not me, I'm live in my own country, in Bkk ,but yeah many Thai didn't live in their country ,they go to study or working .i don't know that much

LOL but there's is more people like u. hm...creation of life? u mean like god? sorry im too big for that stuff. u cant come from nothing to a human being. "have.....became who you are" hm..influence of other, t.v, news, internet, and some moral stuff that i learn through life..that thos $hit make who i am today. "Somebody someone put you here for a special purpose"....if u mean like god stuff then im not interest...unless u meant my parent LOL yes they are the somebody that put me here for a special purpose.

I worship someone who exist in this world not some1 no1 ever seen b4. and i hope ur worship is not what i hope it was.

Don't you think us hmong people would like to possess our own country? Hell yea we would!!!! But where are we going to put this hmong country of ours, Most of the islands or lands in this world has already been taken up and the island's that hasnt been charted on maps are too petit for us hmong people. Do you want us to become barbarians and conquer a country from another race? We're not barbarians you know. If us hmong people did have a country it would be difficult to generate income to support our country. We would have to borrow money from another nation just to support ours, putting us in a worser position than where we are now. We live with what we can get or what we have. Starting your own country isnt easy you know u make it sound as if it were easy as abc.

What you think it's easy to keep your values when you don't have a country? Dont you think its sad for us to realize that we have to take values from another nation. We know we take values from another nation, we see our hmong people assimilating to anther nation's culture and we see our values degrading; but what can we do. Do you know that our hmong vocabulary isnt as broad as you think. We don't even have words for most objects in this world. Like the weekdays and the weekends, the hmong vocabulary word for sunday is day 1. Of course Chinese and Koreans are going to keep their values when they leave for the west they still have their country to support their values man. Meaning if you have a country your values will hardly ever fade away. Plus we do share with others when they are in need of money we do give what we have to them thats why when we see them again we need the money because we're in desperate need of the money we lent to the other. You act like only hmong people are like this, I'm pretty sure other ethnicity is like this too dont be so sterotype. How can you compare us with the jews anyways man. We use to live in mountains and they use to live in cities. We almost had the same fate but the US eventually stepped into the war and saved them. They won the war. Look at us hmong people the US stepped in and lost the war and left most of the hmong people that wasn't in thailand for dead. What if the US lost the war, dont you think the jews would've had the same fate as we did. Use common sense man.

Your right we have no allies. The closest allies we have is probably the mein ethnicity. They suffered the same fate and consequences that us hmong face. You can say that the hmong and mein are like brothers.

Yes its true we have few intellects but we're doing our best to become intelligent. Its hard to become educated and try to find time to keep up with our values (one of the reason we lose our values). These two thing are very hard to balance when you dont have a country. We have hmong people that are senator, doctors, and so much more. You can consider the senator an intellect for us hmong people. That senator or our intellect person can't push for a hmong independence because she is still trying to push for the freedom and independence of all the hmong people in Lao's, the hmong in laos are currently fighting for their life. Everyday they are slaughter, rape, and are in need of nutrition. She also has to push for the safety of the hmong people in thailand since they'll soon be deported back to laos. She uses her power to let help others beside herself even with all these power she still has to yield to the US. When you yield to another nation how can you become a leader tell me.

When you talk about us having goodwill towards each other we wont go and take another nation's country because we aren't barbarians. We live with wat we have and wat we can get peacefully.

Looks like you hardly know $hit about us man, and dont fu-king compare us with the jews if hitler won the war their probably hardly be any jews left but hitler lost only reason y they are left alive......we have gone thru a lot and are still alive today......


thanks 兔兔胜 for not dissing us like whoever that guy was up here.........

^ he's just being ignorant..too much pride sometimes people like him
tries to sound all tough and mighty..but anyway...

see i knew he was troll... bott!

from reading his post, I personally think 老子道君 is more or less sympathetic to hmong's situation, i wouldn't call him a troll. instead of just pointing out their shortcomings, he actually suggested some ways hmongs can become powerful and establish a country. Whether it is realistic is another story. I personally think hmong should all migrate to china, they already have their own self governing autonomous region there like xinjiang, tibet and inner mongolia. China doesn't treat them as second class citizen like the laos and the thais do. They also get added benefit when go to college because they're minority and they get to keep their own way of life.

Ou...this reminds me of "The Mondernization Theory": because certain values within an ethnic group are what is "in the way of being great" that ethnic group should throw away those certain values and adopt others' values in order to become great and when they do do that they will be able to compete with others. Now, isn't that just bull...

This is impossible,

Miao is Chinese, but Hmong is not!

Like Dungan people, originated from Hui (Chinese Muslim) in West China, migrated to Central Asia in late Qing Dynasty, they are not classified as Chinese



Hmong problem was created by both Loas and USA, none of China's business!

dude..you have it all wrong..500 years? hmong people jsut exist recently? wth? we've been around before the chinese settled around the yellow river....we were the first to plant and harvest rice!! No offense but you need to get your history straight...

I hope you are not referring to XinJiang, Tibet, and Inner Mongolia as autonomous regions where Miao live. You are a fool if you believe that any "autonomous region" is truly self governing. In addition to that, it is evident you have never been to China to see the different Miao groups there. Do you realize that most live in poverty? They keep their way of life, but they have no good land to farm one, no money to pay for seeds for crops. Although the "one child" policy is not suppose to apply to them, in a sense it does. One woman who had two children told me the government would not allow her to have anymore children. So don't try to paint life in China as sunny for the Miao, because it is not.



Have you told this to the Miao/Hmong people living in China? I nominate you as the person to tell all those Hmong folks who are known as Miao in China that they are not Hmong. In case you don't know, the only real "Chinese" are the Han. Get your facts straight before you speak. There is a difference between ethnicity and nationality.

What means by Real?

What means by American? Red Indian?

What means by Australian? Māori?

Real as in what the Chinese themselves consider to be ethnically Chinese. I noticed you failed to point out the rest of my comments on that.

well said. pretty similar to the idea of integration..instead of sticking to the idea of cultural pluralism, they seek to become one with the mainstream to supposedly better themselves. what they are ignorant of is the fact that due to the 'one-drop' rule so strongly rooted in this country, they will NEVER be seeb as good as the "pure" mainstream, which happens to be white america.

i don't think the topic starter is sympathetic to hmong situation. i think he's more like pointing fingers to say why hmong DON"T DESERVE a country and not will ever get a country. there are ways of saying what he says without offending people like he is doing.

first i'd like to ask are you hmong?

second, i would like it that you stop stereotyping/generalizing all hmogn as greedy, undeducated, and etc.
the fact that it has only been about 30 years since hmong people has been known to the world so obviously it'll take time to get allies and such. also it's only been about 30 years that hmong families been emphasizing education so it'll take time.

thirdly i don't think hmong have changed as much as you've said since coming to america. of course they've changed some but not as much as you wish.

also can you really compare Hmong (from SEA) in america to koreans or chinese or etc in america. did the korean-americans, chinese-americans, and etc live in laos? did they experience the same experiencs as hmong people did in laos? if they did then you can compare them. why don't you compare some ethnic minority group that lived in laos or thailand (around the same time) to hmong people. then they would have similar enough experiences to be able to compare them.

don't you know a big factor in why jews had allies. of course there are other reasons but an unspoken one is that religion. christianity and catholicism came from jewish religion. yes i hate to point this out but this is a big reason why britian helped jews. if it wasn't than why don't britain help tibetans.

come on, do you really think you are helping hmong people. are you really giving constructive criticism or just trying to seem intellectual but actually coming off as condescending because thats what you are doing, being condescending.

here's an idea, instead of putting so much effort into a post like this why don't you actually make your ideas and words worth it by helping the hmong community. like in supporting hmong non-profit organization financially or vonlunteer, getting the world to know the hmong situation in SEA, trying to get hmong youth in america involved in school more, become an anthropologist and study the hmong community to see how best to help them. why don't you do these things instead of judging and pointing fingers.

action speaks much louder than words.

跨界民族问题对我国和平崛起的影响

作者：闫文虎 文章来源：安徽师范大学学报：人文社科版 200504


我国的和平崛起战略主要是争取和利用和平的国际环境来发展自己。由于垮界民族使我国的民族问题成为国际性，它直接影响我国与周边国家的关系，影响我国边疆的稳定。跨界民族问题也是国际反华势力和组织干涉我国内政，阻挠我国和平发展的主要借口。我们要从战略高度重视解决跨界民族问题，尤其是加大跨界民族地区的经济和社会的全面发展，使我国各族人民共同走向小康社会。

跨界民族是指跨两国乃至多国边界而居的历史上的同一民族。它的形成既有历史的诱因，也有国际国内政治的现实影响。我国是一个跨界民族较多的国家。由于共同的民族感情、文化特征、宗教信仰、地缘联系、历史渊源等因素，跨界民族容易产生政治、经济、文化（包括宗教）上的相互影响或主观上（人为地）渗透以及边界领土纠纷等问题。能否正确地处理跨界民族问题，关系到与周边邻国的关系和地区安全，关系到民族团结、社会稳定、边防巩固，关系到能否挫败国外敌对势力利用民族、宗教、人权问题对我进行“西化”、“分化”、“弱化”的图谋，关系到国家安全和社会稳定，关系到我国和平崛起战略能否顺利实施。
　　一、我国跨界民族地域大、数量多、分布广，语言和宗教信仰复杂，经济文化发展相对落后。能否处理好跨界民族问题关系到我国整体建设，关系到我国和平崛起的质量和完整性
我国的和平崛起战略是包括广大少数民族在内的全民族全方位的振兴，而不是某一些地方或某一方面的发展。我国是一个统一多民族国家，全国55个少数民族，人口1亿多，民族自治地方的人口占全国人口的14%以上，而民族自治地方占全国国土面积的64%。我国与15个国家接壤，有2.2万公里陆地边界线，其中1.9万公里在少数民族地区，全国123个边境县几乎都在少数民族地区。从东北鸭绿江起，北至黑龙江、内蒙古，西经甘肃至新疆，西南到西藏、云南、广西，在陆路边境地区居住着34个跨界民族。其中影响最大的有维吾尔族、蒙古族、哈萨克族、朝鲜族、藏族、俄罗斯族、回族、吉尔吉斯族、土库曼族、塔塔尔族等[1]，总人口约为6600万人。我国的跨界民族语言类别比较复杂。除朝鲜族和京族的语族尚未确定之外，30个跨界民族分属于4个语系、11个语支、14个分支，[2]其中属于汉藏语系的跨界民族和文化群体达15个。由于我国多数跨界民族居住的地区自然条件和交通条件差，文化科技水平低，经济发展较慢，有些民族至今还以游猎、渔猎兼采集为主要生存方式。改革开放以来，我国经济发展速度明显加快，但东西部地区的经济发展差距也越拉越大，发展不全面不平衡，有些少数民族还处于贫困状态或刚刚解决温饱问题。2001年，民族自治地方的人均国内生产总值4848.3元，仅相当于全国人均GDP（7543元）的64.28%。许多跨界民族存在物质贫困和精神贫困，经济封闭和文化信息封闭。以跨界民族居住较多的西部地区为例，这里占全国面积的一半以上，人口占全国的23%左右，全国贫困人口的80%，全国文盲半文盲人口的39%大部分分布在这一地区。西部地区经济发展差距（地区人均GDP发展、城乡收入和公共服务发展）、人类发展差距（生活水平差距、生活质量差距和医疗卫生差距）、知识发展差距（信息、技术、教育和体制差距），分别低于全国平均水平32.49%、15.92%、48.66%，且仍呈继续拉大的趋势。[3]仅云南就有9个民族的130万人过着贫困的生活，这其中跨界民族占有很大的比重。跨界民族地区基本上是靠财政“吃饭”，自我平衡能力很差，与社会主义市场经济不相适应。以新疆和田地区为例，所辖7县1市均为国家重点扶持的贫困县（市），目前仍有35万多人未解决温饱，2000年的财政收入只能保证两个月的正常支出。到目前为止，财政欠发职工个人资金达2.4亿元[4](P256)，职工住房公积金、医疗费长期拖欠得不到解决。许多学生考上大学后却上不起学，被迫去学经文。经济文化发展的滞后，与内地和其它地区形成巨大反差，使一些跨界民族干部群众产生了紧迫感、危机感，甚至是失落感。少数跨界民族群众由此对社会主义制度的优越性产生怀疑，国际敌对势力和民族分裂势力也就此挑拨民族关系，煽动民族分裂情绪。在我国东北朝鲜族地区，由于经济发展缓慢，人民生活水平还不是很高，就业、生活保障和福利待遇等问题一时难以解决。这导致朝鲜族女子大量外出务工，造成该地区人口构成不协调，打破了社会、家庭的稳定结构，加剧了该地区安全隐患。可见，跨界民族地区的经济发展关系到民族团结、社会稳定和国家安全，关系到我国和平崛起的完整性。另外，我国主要江河的源头多数分布在跨界民族地区，跨界民族地区的森林面积占全国的42.2%，草原面积占75%，水力资源蕴藏量占全国的66%[3]，石油等关系国家经济发展的战略资源也非常丰富。如果跨界民族地区的经济长期搞不上去，发达地区的经济也会由于资源和市场的限制而难以保持发展后劲，现代化建设的宏伟目标就难以完全实现。可以说，没有跨界民族地区的经济繁荣和社会进步，就没有国家的兴旺发达和文明昌盛；没有少数民族和地区的崛起，就没有全中国的崛起，我们要加大西部大开发的力度，要把以富民、兴边、强国、睦邻为宗旨的“兴边富民行动”引向深入，推上新的层次。要充分尊重、利用和不断拓展、疏通跨界民族和国外同族系民族的民族感情、亲缘关系，大力促进边疆地区的社会经济文化发展。在东北边境地区要继续深化改革，大力发掘具有民族特色和地区特色的经济模式和产业形式，把东北朝鲜族地区经济搞上去。要加强改善对我境内少数民族的管理工作，要结合党的“兴边富民”政策，动员群众积极参与边境管理，增强群众自身管理的能动性和自觉性。
　　二、我国的跨界民族受宗教思想和泛民族主义思潮影响大。能否处理好跨界民族问题事关我国民族统一和边疆稳定，事关能否为我国和平崛起营造一个良好的国内环境
中国能否在21世纪前半叶实现经济发展的战略目标，实现和平崛起，首要条件是国内必须有一个和平稳定的政治环境。而民族问题特别是跨界民族问题是影响我国稳定尤其是边疆稳定的重要因素。西方一些国家不希望看到中国的真正崛起，他们会利用一切可能煽动中国内乱的因素阻止中国崛起或者说不希望中国按照自己的模式崛起，民族问题是他们找准的一个最好突破口。国家计委宏观经济研究院社会稳定问题跟踪研究与对策课题组对2001年社会问题的调查显示，在影响我国社会稳定的主要因素中，民族关系紧张包括在其中。民族矛盾一旦被煽动起来，就会造成流血冲突，甚至导致国家分裂。可以说民族问题对中国的整体发展起着极为重要的作用。民族团结和边疆稳定是中国实现和平崛起，实现中共十六大提出的建设经济更加发展、民主更加健全、科教更加进步、文化更加繁荣、社会更加和谐、人民生活更加殷实的小康社会的最基本条件。
但是泛民族主义以历史上同源或同一民族为依托，利用语言、宗教和文化习俗等方面的同一性，宣扬历史上曾有过的帝国辉煌，图谋实现大民族国家或建立大民族共同体。泛民族主义的兴起与扩张是我国跨界民族问题产生及发展的思想来源。我国边疆地区有34个跨界民族，他们与境外民族有着共同的历史渊源、相似的文化心理特征及价值观、相同的语言和宗教信仰、相近的经济发展水平等，这些天然联系很容易为民族主义思潮的传播提供便利条件。加上国际反华势力、极端宗教组织和民族分裂主义分子的渗透，很容易引起民族争端。目前，影响我国的泛民族主义思潮主要有泛突厥主义（大土耳其主义）、大哈萨克主义、大蒙古主义。泛突厥主义极力宣扬所谓“突厥民族至上”论，散布民族对立和民族仇视思想，主张突厥民族实现“语言、行动和思想的统一”，企图建立一个从博斯普鲁斯海峡到阿勒泰的突厥语族大帝国。土耳其境内的泛突厥主义者甚至提出“21世纪是突厥人的世纪”的口号，拉拢中亚诸国，图谋染指其他突厥语族地区，营造一个以土耳其为首的包括各个属于突厥语族的国家和民族在内的横跨欧亚大陆的突厥国家联合体，其范围包括土耳其、阿塞拜疆、哈萨克斯坦、乌兹别克斯坦、土库曼斯坦、吉尔吉斯斯坦六个独立国家以及俄罗斯的车臣、鞑靼斯坦，甚至包括了中国的新疆地区[5]。这种思潮无疑直接影响到我国的主权独立、领土完整和社会稳定。“泛蒙古主义”就是将蒙古国、中国的内蒙古、俄罗斯的布里亚特统一成“大蒙古国”。“大哈萨克主义”号召世界范围内的哈萨克人回归哈萨克斯坦。朝鲜、韩国也有人打出“寻根归祖”旗号，提出“所有朝鲜族人是一个整体，不需要国家疆界”等口号，煽动我国朝鲜族的民族独立情绪，怂恿别有用心的人搞民族分裂。泛民族主义思潮的兴起，对于我国这个多民族国家将产生灾难性的影响。目前，我国有以泛突厥主义为理论基础的东突民族分裂组织50多个，从1990年至2001年，在新疆制造了至少360余起恐怖暴力事件，造成162人丧生，440多人受伤[6]。宣扬“内蒙古独立”和“三蒙统一”的蒙独分裂组织30多个。他们以信息技术为主要手段，以思想文化领域为重点，以知识分子和青少年为对象，与我展开争夺群众、争夺人心的斗争，进而煽动极端民族情绪，破坏民族团结和社会稳定。例如1996年12月被我公安机关破获并被依法取缔的内蒙古地区影响较大、组织较为健全、活动较为活跃的民族分裂组织“南蒙古民主联盟”，通过为蒙族学生开展文体活动提供赞助，赠阅“内部图书”，组织聚会、联欢等手段，拉拢、引诱蒙族大学生进行分裂活动。
我国是一个多民族的国家，也是多种宗教并存的国家。我国不仅有从国外传入的佛教、基督教、伊斯兰教等世界性宗教，而且有在我国本土上产生和发展起来的道教，及残存在民间的具有原始宗教色彩的传统宗教信仰。我国现有信教的群众1亿多人，教堂（庙宇、道观）8万多处，教职人员约30万人，团体3000多个，有20多个信仰宗教的少数民族。其中回、维吾尔、哈萨克、柯尔克孜，塔吉克、塔塔尔和乌孜别克等10个跨界民族信仰伊斯兰教。瑶族及少部分彝族和壮族等跨界民族信仰道教。藏族、门巴族和蒙古族以及部分怒族信仰藏传佛教。跨界民族中的傈僳、怒、苗、景颇、佤、彝、拉祜、哈尼、傣、壮、布依、京、朝鲜等族部分人信奉天主教和新教，少数鄂温克族则信仰东正教。俄罗斯族仍维持其传统的东正教信仰。全国宗教问题与民族问题往往交织在一起，使得我国宗教具有长期性、群众性、民族性、国际性、复杂性等特点。在新疆个别农村几乎达到全民信教的程度。以国家级贫困县于田县为例，全县人口共20余万，信教群众就有15万人。全县174个行政村，有清真寺792座，而中小学校仅122所[7]。随着我国对外开放不断扩大和西部大开发战略的进一步实施，国外极端宗教组织和敌对国家联合起来，加紧利用宗教对我国进行渗透，扶植地下势力，建立非法组织，力图控制我国宗教事务的领导权，并支持国内的邪教、迷信活动及伪科学对我国合法宗教的干扰破坏活动。他们攻击、谩骂甚至谋害爱国人士，争夺宗教活动场所和宗教团体的领导权。他们编造并传播“圣人下凡”、“真主显灵”等谣言蛊惑群众，干涉行政、司法、教育、婚姻、计划生育乃至群众的正常生产和生活，煽动不明真相的群众非法游行示威，冲击党政机关，搞打、砸、抢活动，蓄意制造动乱和暴乱；他们宣传“圣战”，煽动宗教狂热和民族仇恨，从精神上麻醉控制群众尤其是青少年，并企图运用暴力恐怖和武装对抗的手段，颠覆我政权，建立“东突厥斯坦伊斯兰独立王国”。
　　三、我国的跨界民族与境外同一民族关系密切，经济、政治、文化、宗教信仰交往频繁。能否解决好跨界民族问题关系到我国与周边国家的关系，关系到能否为我国的和平崛起争取到一个良好的周边环境
我国的和平崛起不仅需要一个稳定的国内环境，而且需要一个和睦相处的周边环境和国际环境。睦邻环境不仅是我国和平崛起的前提条件，而且是我国获取外部能源、市场、先进技术和管理经验的主要通道，是我国建设小康社会实现三步走战略目标的重要条件。然而，在经济全球化日益加强的形势下，跨界民族问题关系到国家领土与主权的安全。跨界民族往往容易把另一边的同胞当作自己精神和物质的后盾，昭示本民族与众不同的优势和力量，并举起民族统一的旗帜，希望和同胞一起建立自己的国家。从这一意义上说，跨界民族问题几乎关系到领土主权问题，一国内部民族问题在国际上很快引起一系列连锁反应，一个国家处理自己民族问题的态度会引起与其相关民族国家的关注。例如，俄罗斯对中亚五国的2500万俄罗斯人特别关注，声称要不惜一切代价用武力来保护境外俄罗斯人的平等权利。[8]泰国南部的马来族在其邻国马来西亚是主体民族，这使得泰国同马来西亚的关系始终存在潜在的不稳定因素。中国与15个邻国的跨界民族，有着历史的渊源关系，同族同根、同风俗、同语言、同文化，自然互有认同感和亲近感。由此增加了彼此之间接触和交流的可能和现实愿望。中国新疆境内的少数民族，哈萨克族、乌孜别克族、柯尔克孜族、塔吉克族、俄罗斯族，分别是中亚的哈萨克斯坦、乌兹别克斯坦、吉尔吉斯斯坦、塔吉克斯坦及俄罗斯的主体民族。生活在蒙古国的蒙古族与中国境内的蒙古族属于同族同源的一个民族，在语言、文化、宗教、经济、生活方式、服饰、饮食习惯等物质生活和精神生活的许多方面有着共同点。生活在南亚诸国的菩提亚人至今保持着讲藏语等西藏文化特点。如仅尼泊尔约有14个民族与藏族有密切关系。生活在缅甸边境上的傣族、掸族、景颇族、佤族、苗族、拉祜族、布朗族、傈僳族等少数民族同我国云南西双版纳地区同一民族保持语言文字相同、文化相同、风俗相同，双方友好相处，相互通婚，对方都有亲戚和朋友，关系很融洽。生活在越南边境上的京族、瑶族、哈尼族、拉祜族和布依族等跨界民族与我国云南广西境内相关民族关系密切。跨界民族虽然分属不同的国家，有不同的国家观念和爱国情感，在政治、经济、文化等方面存在很大的差别，这种差别很容易使跨界民族问题成为敏感问题。我国的跨界民族与境外同一民族关系密切，经济、政治、文化、宗教信仰交往频繁。这使得他们有更多的参照系，他们不仅与本国的其他民族，特别是主体民族作比较，还与边界另一面的同胞作比较，与任何一方的差别都可能触发民族情绪。对民族分裂分子来说，“民族统一主义是个神圣的召唤”[9](P81)。中亚各国经济的发展、民族关系的变化及各民族政治与经济生活地位的起伏，对新疆的民族关系都有很大的影响。中亚国家出于国内政治的需要，提出了“民族回归历史故乡的口号”等民族复兴政策，相继召开了世界哈萨克人大会、世界吉尔吉斯坦人大会、世界土库曼斯坦人大会，号召境外的哈萨克人、吉尔吉斯人、土库曼人回国，三国政府为回国者提供优惠政策。如果处理民族问题不当或者说我们的民族政策欠科学性，在长达3300公里中国与中亚国家的边境线上，跨界民族问题对我国的民族团结和国家统一构成威胁[10]。另外，蒙古实行的新文化战略被我国极少数主张“三蒙合一”的极端民族主义分子所利用，助长了他们分裂祖国的野心，直接影响我内蒙古地区的稳定和发展。虽然门巴族在中国是一个人数很少的少数民族，但在不丹是主体民族，这种复杂的民族关系使我国在考虑西藏的民族关系和西藏的稳定时，必须站在一个更高的角度思考，以确保西藏与周边国家的友好关系。还有个别国家政府在边境上采取歧视、排斥与我国相关的跨界民族和解除其民族干部的做法，直接影响我国边境稳定和两国关系。近年来，朝鲜半岛局势、朝鲜国内政治经济状况及全球民族主义复兴等外部因素对我经济欠发达、生活水平不高的朝鲜族地区带来许多安全隐患。总之，要塑造良好的周边环境，中国需从根本上减少和消除周边国家对中国崛起的疑虑，促使中国同周边邻国关系的全面改善和发展，需要从政策实践而不仅仅从口头上解决和消除“中国威胁论”对中国与周边国家关系带来的种种负面影响。我们要从解决跨界民族问题入手，坚持“睦邻、安邻、富邻”的周边外交政策，争取实现与周边国家政治上平等互信、经济上互利共赢、文化上交流借鉴、安全上对话协作。此外，在打击极端民族势力、极端宗教势力和恐怖势力等方面加强与周边国家和联合国等国际组织的交流合作，争取世界舆论和国际友人的支持。
　　四、跨界民族问题常常是国际反华势力分化西化我国，干涉我国内政的借口，也是民族分裂势力和宗教极端势力对我国进行分裂恐怖活动的切入点。能否处理好跨界民族问题事关国家安全，事关和平崛起战略的顺利实施
我国的和平崛起战略实施并非一帆风顺，它面临着这样那样的外部阻力。西方敌对势力不愿看到一个强大的社会主义中国，他们打着“人权高于主权”、“捍卫人类普遍的价值观”等旗帜，以民族问题和宗教问题为突破口，想方设法挑起民族矛盾和宗教矛盾，制造民族分裂，妄图形成反华阵线，妄图像用民族问题肢解苏联和东欧那样，以压促乱，以乱促变，把边疆少数民族从我国分裂出去，从而遏制我国的发展。国内民族分裂势力为了实现“民族独立”的梦想，极力寻求国际反华势力在舆论、政治、经济、军事等方面的支持[11]。在西北，美国等西方国家把秘密扶持“东突”分裂势力，作为其中亚战略的组成部分，企图利用东突势力分化、弱化中国。美国各级政要先后接见我境外的新疆分裂组织头目，要求各势力加强联合，并保证“东突厥问题”国际化。1997年底，美国中央情报局制定了分裂新疆的“新疆工程”计划，强调“不能只把新疆问题视为简单的安全问题，必须视它为使中国政治自由化战略的重要组成部分”[12]。1998年3月，美中央情报局批准该局中国工作处对新疆地区的情报进行搜集，并计划在土耳其与伊拉克边境为新疆境外的分裂组织培训人员骨干。2004年9月14日东突恐怖组织在美国成立了东突流亡政府。目前，在美国的东突分子达1000多人，其中华盛顿地区就有300多人[13]。另外，西亚和中亚的一些国家和组织也打着“泛伊斯兰教主义”、“泛突厥主义”的旗号，在新疆地区煽动民族分裂。在西藏民族问题上，美国、印度等国加大其在对华关系中的战略筹码。美国国会授予达赖沃伦伯人权奖，1989年又煽动授予达赖“诺贝尔和平奖”。2000年美国国会参议院将3月10日定为“西藏国庆日”。2001年2月，布什提升总统接见达赖喇嘛的规格和提升“西藏事务特别协调员”的地位[14]。2002年3月5日，美国42名国会议员提出众议院第357号决议案，称北京三年内不能与达赖达成协议，美国政府就应当承认“西藏流亡政府”。印度一直默认“西藏流亡政府”，允许达赖在新德里设办事处，纵容“藏青会”、“藏妇会”等组织在新德里进行“分裂”活动，允许他们在印度进行“国际西藏年”、“和平挺进西藏”、“争取西藏独立徒步行走”和绝食等活动。印度政府还给达赖集团以经济援助，仅每年拨给达赖集团教育经费就达1000多万卢比。在蒙古族问题上，美、日等西方国家企图利用跨界民族问题把内蒙古分裂出去。1997年，欧洲议会根据“蒙独”势力的要求，提出“内蒙古人权问题”议案。蒙古国的一些反华议员、政府官员、民间团体和知名人士也打着“蒙古民族利益”的旗号，大力支持“蒙独”分裂活动，接收和安置了部分外逃“蒙独”组织成员，允许他们加入蒙古国籍或长期居住蒙古，甚至为其进行“蒙独”分裂活动提供经费支持。美国“苗族协会”经常派人到云南、贵州、越南、缅甸和泰国的苗族聚居区进行活动，策动苗人迁居中、老、缅毗邻地区定居，以建立“苗族之国”。韩国部分议员还对我国长白山提出主权要求。另外，美国还极力促成“东突独”、“藏独”、“蒙独”、“台独”及“民运”组织等民族分裂势力的联合。2000年5月27日，在华盛顿大学召开的“自由亚洲国际代表大会”就是这些分裂势力的“大联合行动”。
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if it were that simple, why do we still not have a country '___'

Since the problem of Hmong was created by USA (American supported Hmong against Communist Laos.)

So, USA should give some land for Hmong to setup their country.

I don't think any of us could read that...please translate to english...

Please remember that the MAJORITY of the Hmong people still live in CHINA. The population here in the US isn't even half of the number of Hmong still in China! But as far as having our own country... I have two thoughts on it. One, our name "Hmong" means "stranger." Well, that's my own translation of it anyways. So I think that we are a people who will always remain as strangers no matter what land we live in. That's why we are so disbursed.

Two, I wouldn't be so sure that we'll never have a land that isn't controlled by the Hmong. I guarantee you guys that within the next 5 years, there are going to be some MAJOR developments happening to the Laotian government, thanks to President Bush and his fight on terrorism. My political prediction is that Laos once again will be a major target, like during the Vietnam war, except that this time, instead of preventing the Viet Cong from transporting weaponry, the attempt will be to stop China from bringing nuclear weapons in from North Korea and selling them to the terrorists on laotian soil away from American eyes... It's pretty predictable what's going to happen. Once again, the Hmong will be called into action to stop the line in promise this time of political control over the country because then, the US can have control of Laos. They will bring down Hundreds of Thousands of Hmong from China to help the Hmong fight, and eventually, Laos will be populated enough with Hmong that the Hmong will gain control of the country... It all makes too much sense to me!

sounds like a wishful dream to me

This right here clearly shows how well-informed you are...

China bringing nukes to NK? Are you kidding me dude? China is the driving force behind the disarmament nukes in NK talks...

WOW... people's intelligence never seem to amaze me.

[quote name='老子道君' date='Aug 4 2006, 09:46 PM' post='2130496']
Comfort

Hmong seem to be comfortable in their diaspora which means theres no need according to Hmong
for a country. "The idea is outdated" they think. "Its the 21st century, we cant do it" Montenegro?


Don't let this anti-Hmong discourage any Hmong. It starts with "the Dream". Everything that he/she mentioned are only obstacles that will be overcome. "The Dream" is the light. All we need to do is keep it lit. In time we will have a place we can call "our country". It will take many generations, but the dream will become a reality.

According to group behavior theory, we are at the forming stage. This is the most tricky stage because trust is lacking and everything can fall apart. Once we pass this stage we will start to overcome the obstacles this Hmong hater pointed out. You can thank him/her for his/her pointers. Let all Hmong haters know they can never extinguish the light. All we need is time. Now that we have time reality is around the corner.

Take pride in your accomplishments. Only 30yrs after we left Laos, and we already have council men and state senator. No group ever in America history has accomplish this with our numbers (about 200,000 in the US). The Vietnamese has over a million people so they don't count. In addition, they have a written language. We basically started with nothing. In another 30 yrs, the world will be amaze by our accomplishments.

What makes you think that they would care and waste time helping the Hmong in Laos? I want that stuff you're smoking.

we wont have a country cos we dont kno how to cooperate n support each otha. theas too much hatin n jealousy in our peeples. maybe one day wen we learn to luv each otha...........................................

I hope hmongs have their own country one day...even if its not in Asia.

Having an country is sometimes not so great...u know in the Philippines we have our own country, but everybody wants to leave for overseas.

LoL. Dudes and chicks!!! If y'all can't even agree that we'll get our own country after years of discussion, how the hell can we? LoL. Too funny.

I personally don't think we Hmong people are ready to run our own country. Reasons? Read on.

1) We don't have (a) strong leader(s) that the majority of the Hmong people agree upon. Don't even mention General Vang Pao. Go and read other threads on him. LoL.

2) Despite all the humbleness that we all claim we have, the majority of us are still only selfish SOBs. LoL. We'll do nothing that will endanger our own lifestyles.

3) There is way too much dispute between the older generation Hmong people and the newer generation Hmong people over major and minor issues. Note that neither side seems to be willing to compromise.

4) The vast, vast, vast (I cannot emphasize this point enough because even I find myself doing this often) majority of us are all talk and no walk. Even if there were to ever be an agreement that we Hmong people deserve and are ready for our own country, we'd do next to nothing or nothing at all. Sad but true.

And lastly,

5) We Hmong people aren't united because of the above reasons. Not being united means that chances of ever getting a country go down by 90%. You could get lucky y'know and grab the other 10% but yeah... (The 90% and 10% are only examples!!! Don't bash on me because of it. ) Anyhow, how can a Hmong country truly become a Hmong country if the Hmong people don't fight for it together? (By "fight" I don't mean literally fighting. Though that could be possibility.)

Number five above is the main cause of all the disassociation, and we aren't united because Hmong have been scattered like needles in a haystack from SE Asia into other parts of the worlds since historical warfare. For everything else, squash it. We Hmongs are capable of running a country; however being capable is not enough.

Today, it's hard to imagine a country. In the reality we live in, I think it'll never happen. Not in our lifetime or our children and their children because the society we live in is all mixed bull$hit. There are the whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. Then there is, hmong, who are very small. With all the demands, integration, and obligations of the societal embodiment and its systems; I think we Hmongs have very little chance to be looking forward for a country. T_T (There's no country for dead men.)

I'd have to disagree. If we Hmong people can seriously fix those five reasons, then the chances of us getting a country would grow exponentially with each reason. The only main obstacle that we could face once we meet the criteria would be:

WHERE THE HELL IS IT GOING TO BE LOCATED???

I mean, location obviously is a very important thing since it is where the country will be...but especially for us Hmong people. The reason for this is because like what population1 said, we Hmong people are scattered all over the place. Since this is our situation, our country (if we ever get one) would have to be in a mountainous, rain forest/jungle, and easily urbanable area to meet each different Hmong group. Near a water source would be beneficial too. Quite a hassle, wouldn't y'all say?

Unclaimed land, like Antarctica or some small island in the Pacific Ocean.

I highly doubt that we'll claim Antarctica or anywhere on it to be our country. It's just sort of obvious in a way...

As for smaller islands in the Pacific, that's plausible. However, I doubt that many of the Hmong people would actually move to live there. But who knows?

So the next question would be:

WHAT THE HELL KIND OF GOVERNMENT WOULD WE HAVE???

how would u expect to do all of that? settle in a remote island/regional areas e.g. mountains, jungles, desert, etc... and claim it? then, how would u expect to claim it? what if there are already tribes or ppl there? fight them off? lol then what will we do then if we get a little piece of country-land that's filthy because chances are, it would be filthy. most good lands have been claimed/discovered/resourced/based/loitered/etc... I don't think it will fit all of us, and that's why we Hmongs will never have our own country.

LoL. To be honest, I have no idea how we'd get ourselves a country. I'll work out the details if I ever decide to get us Hmong people a country.

If the location of the place isn't the best of places, it shouldn't really matter too much. We can fix it up to our liking later. Anyhow, what exactly do you mean by filthy?

As for the too small of a country problem, I highly doubt that all the Hmong people in the world will flock over to live in the country. I really do. Besides, I only said that the country could perhaps be one of the odd uninhabited islands. Doesn't mean that it has to be one of them.

If we do perhaps find a island with natives living on it...well...I can't really say what we'd do, as it hasn't happened. We might just push them off into near nothingness like the Americans and the Native Americans but I highly doubt that. Like what I stated earlier, I'll work out the details if I ever decide to get us Hmong people a country.

Seriously though, to completely eliminate the thought that we could never get a country just because there are very few available good, open islands is too harsh. A new country can be born in many different areas whether it is populated or not.

You all assume that having one's own country is the most important thing for a society. It isn't. Is it necessary for Hmong to have their own country? I think not. And seriously, putting claim on a piece of land is quite expensive these days. If there is a piece of land to have, the U.S. probably put a military base on it already In fact, the U.S. is now putting claims on pieces of the ocean. *nods*



>.>;;; I have that idea too. It is the 21st century. I mean, we could start some coup and take over some part of the world, but then we would most likely be considered terrorists :P It's also not a matter of can or can't, it's a matter of why do we have to? o.O;; Is it even necessary?



This my friend, is where you are wrong. Also you keep comparing Hmong to Jews, but... Hmongs and Jews are quite different. Jews have more political clout in the world. And besides, Jews all claim one thing in common, that is their religion and part of that religion is a homeland where their original religion begins. Hmong is not a religion o.O;; it's a group of people from South East Asia. (Yes, I excluded Miao. There are too many differences to make the claim that Hmong and Miao could be brothers and sisters). I say South East Asia, because there is no other way to describe the location of Hmong to the modern day political map.



Give me another example. o.O show me a piece of land that hasn't been claimed. Although you are correct in saying that Hmong do not have many friends in high political positions, the reason for it isn't because Hmong are lacking in the intellectual arena. There are many Hmong who are very intelligent. Of course, you will have to define what you mean when you say intellectual arena. And those that do exist are smart for thinking that a Hmong country is not possible. It isn't. And it would be a very stupid idea to try to make Florida into HmongLand. >.>



Again, I completely disagree. Hmong people have a very strong cultural/societal/political foundation. Hmong people just don't have to all live in one country to make a society work. Think global. Besides, Hmong intellectuals probably have a different goal than the Zionist intellectuals.



Of course, you have to look at the capitalist society that we live in now. That attitude is the capitalist attitude, McDonalds anyone? Hmong people learn to adapt and make the best use out of the situation they are in and that attitude that you so colorfully provided is exactly how to survive in a capitalist economy.



What do you mean when it's time to move? Isn't a stable society supposed to stay put?



Speak for yourself...



Very true. Although you make it sound like these kinds of ethnic groups handed their @sses over to the Man. It's really not about ethnicities, but about the have and have nots. The haves are in control and the have nots well.. they have very little power.



What MoryHX said. >.>;;

What bull$hit. I'm just getting to the end of this long thread with frustratingly incomprehensible posts so, my comments might be harsher on the following responses. SO, Since it is your opinion, what makes you think that our ethnic name is the reason why we are so disbursed. >.>



I think.. this is sarcasm?



Isn't that why we're humans? I mean.. in the animal kingdom what can humans do but try to outsmart each other in order to survive?



That's contradictory.

[quote=davidlee]I personally don't think we Hmong people are ready to run our own country. Reasons? Read on.[/b]

o.O;; Hmong people don't need a country to run a society, so it is not a matter skill in running a country. Running a country isn't very difficult, having it survive politically is another story, and one which many countries today are failing anyway.


>.>;; couldn't fit all my comments into one post :P so here i double post

It is a very good idea, nothing wrong with it.

Some groups of people built their own countries before. Others are making wonderful dreams.

For example, United States is a country of less than 300 years. why not Hmong/Miao people, who has been in south China and SE Asia for hundreds of years.

It is very simple. When I visited Washtington DC, what impressed me most is they say:

Freedom is NOT FREE. No free lunch in this world.

Oh wow. Well then.

That is true. The Hmong people don't need a country to run a society. I never said it. And I never said that running a country would be the most important thing for a society. I'm just pondering on how we might be able to get one. I mean, our society is pretty much a nomadic one so we can really just fit in with anyone and still live. Thrive even. However, if you never try to attain something, you'll never attain it. Or atleast that's the way it's supposed to go.

Oh and, running a country doesn't involve skill? Uh...what? If the head dude isn't skillful enough to run the country, the country'll fall. It is after all, his skills in politics and other things that will determine the country's life to a certain degree. To say that it doesn't take skill to run a country is just simply too much. Why do you think that we even have elections? Maybe nowadays it's more corrupt politics like you say but let's have Paris Hilton run America for a bit. You'll see my point pretty quick. Besides, it's because of the head dude's inability at something that leads to corrupt politics usually.

And look. I'm not bashing on you or anything (or atleast I hope I'm not...). I'm just pointing out my opinions. Having people like you as part of the Hmong society is very important. Why? Because they balance out people like me.