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angkorwat19
i got this post from a khmer forum. this khmer poster has heavy knowledge of khmer history especially history involving thailand. i hope he doesn't mind since this is a very old post.

i don't think there are any pure negritos today inhabiting cambodia though. you won't find a cambodian with kinky hair like negritos. i'm not surprised that negritos have been assimilated into khmer population since the khmer population wasn't big to begin with.

have you guys seen that movie city of ghosts? starring matt damon? did you remember that part when he saw this old khmer man with very frizzy hair,dark and short stature holding a cane? he looks mixed with negrito.

QUOTE
Yes, the negritos are still there. The negritos in western cambodia are pretty much assymilated into the khmer pupulation. Other then that there are still some tribes left in the north and north east proviences along the mountainous khmer-lao border.

I dont have any documents are pics of them but i remember interviewing the elders at my local temple about their encounters with the negritos.

This was done along time ago, i cant remember any of the interviews but the most stunning interview i remmber was when one of the elder told me about how he and his friends exploited the tribes by having them harvest lumber for salt. Back then the tribes prized salt as much as gold but i dont know how it is today.
RockHeart
I heard some people said that had one negrito in somewhere around this website!! But i am not sure which forum!! The negrito didn't have in Cambodia...Because the Africa was far from Cambodia. The negritos couldn't have time moving to the Cambodia...But in this forum is so sure has one Negrito...Trying to find out who is a negrito!!! What language do they speak???


RockHeart,

:genius:
BishoujoHunter
duh2.gif rotflmao.gif
Menikani
I've never seen a Negrito-Khmer before, but I wouldn't doubt there are some Negritos still around in Cambodia. Probably not pure-breeds, but half like that picture of the Khmer women with curly hair I posted at KNU.
g0ldenchild
1
User1
Yes, the negrito and australoid cranio complex seem to be of two different types.

A northern type of Australoid is found in northern China and Japan as late as perhaps 10,000 years ago.. such as the Upper Cave samples and Jomon.. and only recently replaced/absorbed..

I think the Veddoid is just a variant of Australoid form.. And the Papuan a blend of the two genetics-wise and probably craniometrically. I'm not sure how related the negrito is to the australoid.. whether they are two separate people who arrived at different times out of Africa or they diverged in SE Asia..

Curly hair is not an accurate way of predicting the craniometry behind it, but curly is a sign.. Sometimes I can tell which admixture is which.

Cambodia is an interesting place anthropologically because I count atleast 7 different layers of various northern and southern types meeting..

Anyway, here is a guy with curly hair.. A lot of Cambodians have wavy hair anyway..
angkorwat19
this lady is a perfect example of a khmer with negrito ancestry


this lady has the typical features of a khmer.


my theory is that the khmer people absorbed the funanese people who were most likely of malay and negrito stock according to a chinese source who visited funan. in 1296, the account of the description of khmer people is different. zhou daguan described them of having typical oriental features, pale brown skin but with short stubby legs.
Menikani
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 02:32 PM)


my theory is that the khmer people absorbed the funanese people who were most likely of malay and negrito stock according to a chinese source who visited funan. in 1296, the account of the description of khmer people is different. zhou daguan described them of having typical oriental features, pale brown skin but with short stubby legs.
*


She has Austroloid skull type. If that is how a pure Khmer looks, then Khmers were probably originally Austroloids, like the Vedas. But even she has some mongoloid characteristics.
User1

These kids seem to be admixtures of various strains and not true australoids..

Here is a craniometric map but I think it's off a bit.. but it's cool in that it measures skulls below the flesh and picks up patterns that's been covered up by admixture

As you can see, Khmer falls in the Austric sector, which is basically a hybrid in itself created by contact between Mongoloid and various southern types. Melanoid is also a hybrid type..
The irony is that Amerinds are more Mongoloid than Chinese are..

This is a true or close to full Veddoid:

An australoid:

A Papuan:

As you can see, they are actually very different.
angkorwat19
bro, those kids look like typical indians. if you think she's not "pure" khmer then you must think pure khmers look indian.. she has the typical look of a khmer...
User1
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 02:56 PM)
bro, those kids look like typical indians. if you think she's not "pure" khmer then you must think pure khmers look indian.. she has the typical look of a khmer...
*

Yeah.. even from the map, you can see that northeast India is the contact point of three groups, Mongoloid, Veddoid, and Caucasian (which is actually made up of two separate components and is in itself an admixture but I guess a White guy made this and didn't want to split up his own people).

Here is an article that sheds some light:
Another one: SE Asian dental patterns, Sundadonty, seems now to be actually not the ancestral form of Sinodonty (northeast Asian and Amerind dental pattern) but a result of admixture between Sinodonty and "austro" (as in southern) dental morphologies.
DUAL ORIGINS OF THE SOUTHEAST ASIANS FROM A DENTAL PERSPECTIVE

Hirofumi Matsumura
Sapporo Medical University, Japan

Population history of Southeast Asia seems complicated due to various migration processes and inter-blend of the population since the prehistoric time. The limitation of the prehistoric human remains and the uncertainty in their dating also add a problem to the study of this region. In general perspective, Southeast Asia was thought to be occupied by indigenous people, who are sometimes referred to as of Australo-Melanesian lineage, before the immigrants from North or East Asia widely spreading on this region (Callenfels, 1936; Mijsberg, 1940; Von Koenigswald, 1952; Coon, 1962; Jacob, 1967, 1975; Bellwood, 1987).  
However, there is different interpretation about these people based on the studies of dental morphology. The studies based on nonmetric dental traits by Turner (1989, 1990, 1992) demonstrated that both the early and the modern Southeast Asians display so-called "Sundadont" dental complex, while the Northeast Asians exhibit “Sinodont” complex. Turner considers the evolvement of present-day Southeast Asians is by local adaptation and not by admixture with North/East Asians.
The work of the present author based on the dental characteristics of the various population samples from Southeast Asia indicates a different trend from Turner’s studies. The present study calculated Smith's MMDs between the samples from the 25 populations based on 21 nonmetric traits. As a result, nonmetric dental traits observed in early Southeast Asians and Australo-Melanesians are regarded as the original "Proto-Sundadont" dental complex. The modern Southeast Asian specimens, which are situated in between "Proto-Sundadont" and "Sinodont" people, can be hybrids of Northeast Asians and original source of Southeast Asians that might share the common ancestor with the Australo-Melanesians.
To investigate the affinities of the populations based on the metric dental traits, further, Q-mode correlation coefficients between the 34 samples were calculated using the tooth crown diameters. The Australian aborigines, Melanesians, Negritos, Jomon, Ainu, Hoabinian and Mesolithic Southeast Asians, were grouped together indicating their close affinities. The metric dental traits common to the North Asians were observed in most of the modern Southeast Asian samples.
The present study based on the investigation of both the nonmetric and metric dental morphology supports the hypothesis stated by Bellwood (1987) that there was a diffusion of migrants from the Asian Continent, probably from southern China, into Southeast Asia since the Neolithic period. These people inter-blended with indigenous Australo-Melanesian stock as they diffused.
Menikani
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 21 2004, 03:00 PM)
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 02:56 PM)
bro, those kids look like typical indians. if you think she's not "pure" khmer then you must think pure khmers look indian.. she has the typical look of a khmer...
*

Yeah.. even from the map, you can see that northeast India is the contact point of three groups, Mongoloid, Veddoid, and Caucasian (which is actually made up of two separate components and is in itself an admixture but I guess a White guy made this and didn't want to split up his own people).

Here is an article that sheds some light:
Another one: SE Asian dental patterns, Sundadonty, seems now to be actually not the ancestral form of Sinodonty (northeast Asian and Amerind dental pattern) but a result of admixture between Sinodonty and "austro" (as in southern) dental morphologies.
DUAL ORIGINS OF THE SOUTHEAST ASIANS FROM A DENTAL PERSPECTIVE

Hirofumi Matsumura
Sapporo Medical University, Japan

Population history of Southeast Asia seems complicated due to various migration processes and inter-blend of the population since the prehistoric time. The limitation of the prehistoric human remains and the uncertainty in their dating also add a problem to the study of this region. In general perspective, Southeast Asia was thought to be occupied by indigenous people, who are sometimes referred to as of Australo-Melanesian lineage, before the immigrants from North or East Asia widely spreading on this region (Callenfels, 1936; Mijsberg, 1940; Von Koenigswald, 1952; Coon, 1962; Jacob, 1967, 1975; Bellwood, 1987).  
However, there is different interpretation about these people based on the studies of dental morphology. The studies based on nonmetric dental traits by Turner (1989, 1990, 1992) demonstrated that both the early and the modern Southeast Asians display so-called "Sundadont" dental complex, while the Northeast Asians exhibit “Sinodont” complex. Turner considers the evolvement of present-day Southeast Asians is by local adaptation and not by admixture with North/East Asians.
The work of the present author based on the dental characteristics of the various population samples from Southeast Asia indicates a different trend from Turner’s studies. The present study calculated Smith's MMDs between the samples from the 25 populations based on 21 nonmetric traits. As a result, nonmetric dental traits observed in early Southeast Asians and Australo-Melanesians are regarded as the original "Proto-Sundadont" dental complex. The modern Southeast Asian specimens, which are situated in between "Proto-Sundadont" and "Sinodont" people, can be hybrids of Northeast Asians and original source of Southeast Asians that might share the common ancestor with the Australo-Melanesians.
To investigate the affinities of the populations based on the metric dental traits, further, Q-mode correlation coefficients between the 34 samples were calculated using the tooth crown diameters. The Australian aborigines, Melanesians, Negritos, Jomon, Ainu, Hoabinian and Mesolithic Southeast Asians, were grouped together indicating their close affinities. The metric dental traits common to the North Asians were observed in most of the modern Southeast Asian samples.
The present study based on the investigation of both the nonmetric and metric dental morphology supports the hypothesis stated by Bellwood (1987) that there was a diffusion of migrants from the Asian Continent, probably from southern China, into Southeast Asia since the Neolithic period. These people inter-blended with indigenous Australo-Melanesian stock as they diffused.
*



Post a picture of a pure Khmer/Austric skull type.
User1
They're just what you see everyday.. a hybrid skull type in-between Mongoloid and various southern peoples.. That woman Angkorwat19 posted is about right, and Srey Keoneang is a more flattering example of that type..
Southeast Asia is extremely polygenic because it's the contact point of 7 layers I've counted..
1. A non-specified southern Australoid such as Perak man, close to Veddoid.
2. A negrito component.
3. A northern Australoid type pushed south.
4. A southern paleo-Mongoloid.

"recent" settlers though these people have been settling in the region for centuries..
5. A neo-Mongoloid "Chinese" type
6. An Indian Dravidian component (I think the pure Dravidian type is not truly Mediterranean but proto/paleo-Mediterranean)
7. A Middle Eastern component (very little I think in Cambodia)..
Menikani
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 02:56 PM)
bro, those kids look like typical indians. if you think she's not "pure" khmer then you must think pure khmers look indian.. she has the typical look of a khmer...
*


I never doubted that she was a pure Khmer. Didn't you yourself believe that Khmers were originally Austroloid? If so, she dosen't look Pure Austroloid type.

I take that back, that pure Khmers were similar to the Veddas. I was basing Austrloid on Veddas.
User1
This is a good comparison. The girl on the left would be standard austric (which is a hybrid type in itself), and the girl on the right is a little more paleo-Mongoloid..


This Thai guy is a flattering example, Clash:
angkorwat19
my little bro looks mediterenean. he is very light. lighter than many of the vietnamese i've seen on AF. he could be easily mistaken as an aryan type. i think he got it from my great grandfather who also had similar features as my brother.
User1
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 03:42 PM)
my little bro looks mediterenean. he is very light. lighter than many of the vietnamese i've seen on AF. he could be easily mistaken as an aryan type. i think he got it from my great grandfather who also had similar features as my brother.
*

It could also be paleo-Mongoloid..
Or a right blend between Australoid and Mongoloid.. Australoids have high nasal aperture I think but short and wide gaps (I dunno what you call it).. while Mongoloids have high or low nasal aperture but long/narrow gaps..

Combined the right way is a tall nose, a long head, and more prominent browage..
angkorwat19
QUOTE
Combined the right way is a tall nose, a long head, and more prominent browage

that's exactly the type of features my brother has. he still does have a distinct khmer feature. he is lighter than that girl you posted up which you said has "paleo-mongoloid features". he doesn't really look mongoloid or australoid.. he looks almost like an aryan..
User1
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 03:48 PM)
QUOTE
Combined the right way is a tall nose, a long head, and more prominent browage

that's exactly the type of features my brother has. he still does have a distinct khmer feature. he is lighter than that girl you posted up which you said has "paleo-mongoloid features". he doesn't really look mongoloid or australoid.. he looks almost like an aryan..
*


Yes, this is how some Ainus get their tall noses.. Some of the black and white photos of Ainu look like depigmented Australoids while others have the long head and tall nose, which is ironically due to Mongoloid admixture.

The Negrito admixture always seem to result in a flat nose though.
angkorwat19
i sometimes wonder if my bro was accidentally switched in the hospital because he does not look like your average asian. looks more like the middle eastern or hispanic type people.
User1
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 04:22 PM)
i sometimes wonder if my bro was accidentally switched in the hospital because he does not look like your average asian. looks more like the middle eastern or hispanic type people.
*

Maybe your mom was friends with the milk man.. embarassedlaugh.gif
I kid I kid.. really.. I kid
Menikani
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 21 2004, 03:14 PM)
They're just what you see everyday.. a hybrid skull type in-between Mongoloid and various southern peoples.. That woman Angkorwat19 posted is about right, and Srey Keoneang is a more flattering example of that type..
Southeast Asia is extremely polygenic because it's the contact point of 7 layers I've counted..
1. A non-specified southern Australoid such as Perak man, close to Veddoid.
2. A negrito component.
3. A northern Australoid type pushed south.
4. A southern paleo-Mongoloid.

"recent" settlers though these people have been settling in the region for centuries..
5. A neo-Mongoloid "Chinese" type
6. An Indian Dravidian component (I think the pure Dravidian type is not truly Mediterranean but proto/paleo-Mediterranean)
7. A Middle Eastern component (very little I think in Cambodia)..
*


I believe it's much more complicated and more layers then this. But don't take my word on it, I'll find out more later. The negritos, along with Australoids are so intertwined that none of them can be found in their pure form today in Cambodia.
supernovasp
what's browage?
Kambolizhuz
Yea...of course look at me! Except for the curly hair bawling.gif .
bandsoulja
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 21 2004, 04:26 PM)
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 04:22 PM)
i sometimes wonder if my bro was accidentally switched in the hospital because he does not look like your average asian. looks more like the middle eastern or hispanic type people.
*

Maybe your mom was friends with the milk man.. embarassedlaugh.gif
I kid I kid.. really.. I kid
*



LOL you sure pooped on him
angkorwat19
QUOTE (bandsoulja @ Dec 22 2004, 01:13 AM)
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 21 2004, 04:26 PM)
QUOTE (angkorwat19 @ Dec 21 2004, 04:22 PM)
i sometimes wonder if my bro was accidentally switched in the hospital because he does not look like your average asian. looks more like the middle eastern or hispanic type people.
*

Maybe your mom was friends with the milk man.. embarassedlaugh.gif
I kid I kid.. really.. I kid
*



LOL you sure pooped on him
*


wtf you talking about?
bandsoulja
hahahaha, have you ever seen that dog puppet on the conan o brian show?, the i kid i kid really i kid referr to the puppet and to poop on means that he gonna diss them, i just thought it was funny man, i'm drunk
User1
QUOTE (Menikani @ Dec 21 2004, 06:32 PM)
QUOTE (User1 @ Dec 21 2004, 03:14 PM)
They're just what you see everyday.. a hybrid skull type in-between Mongoloid and various southern peoples.. That woman Angkorwat19 posted is about right, and Srey Keoneang is a more flattering example of that type..
Southeast Asia is extremely polygenic because it's the contact point of 7 layers I've counted..
1. A non-specified southern Australoid such as Perak man, close to Veddoid.
2. A negrito component.
3. A northern Australoid type pushed south.
4. A southern paleo-Mongoloid.

"recent" settlers though these people have been settling in the region for centuries..
5. A neo-Mongoloid "Chinese" type
6. An Indian Dravidian component (I think the pure Dravidian type is not truly Mediterranean but proto/paleo-Mediterranean)
7. A Middle Eastern component (very little I think in Cambodia)..
*


I believe it's much more complicated and more layers then this. But don't take my word on it, I'll find out more later. The negritos, along with Australoids are so intertwined that none of them can be found in their pure form today in Cambodia.
*


I never said they can be found in pure states.. 7 layers intermixed..
In fact, if you look at the fossil and genetic record of people around the globe, it's like this.. People intermixing for 60,000 years since out of Africa..
No one just set up shop and developed on their own, nor was each "race" set at the beginning of time.
nangsbek
QUOTE(angkorwat19 @ May 26 2004, 08:29 PM) [snapback]200962[/snapback]

i got this post from a khmer forum. this khmer poster has heavy knowledge of khmer history especially history involving thailand. i hope he doesn't mind since this is a very old post.

i don't think there are any pure negritos today inhabiting cambodia though. you won't find a cambodian with kinky hair like negritos. i'm not surprised that negritos have been assimilated into khmer population since the khmer population wasn't big to begin with.

have you guys seen that movie city of ghosts? starring matt damon? did you remember that part when he saw this old khmer man with very frizzy hair,dark and short stature holding a cane? he looks mixed with negrito.


i don't know why people think cambodians are mix negrito, i been digging and it shows negrito move ever since the malayo-polynesian came down. cambodians were next. it turns out cambos are mix melanesian, not directly but from the austronesian(malayo-polynesian). its says that one wave of our ancestor came from china ansd the other came form malaysia and indonesia. hmm...i love being khmer sometimes...
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