April 30, 2006 Andy Nguyen's Speech

The Right to Fly former South Vietnam Flag at School Function.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF7NXDF9ibA

.

lol

^ and the only flag allow to fly in states...

tiffanyhenii,

WHAT IF MARTIN LUTHER KING DECIDED TO CLOSE HIS EYES?
WHAT IF ABRAHAM LINCOLN CLOSED HIS EYES?

................Its funny how they criticise the VC as killers when they were too killers themselves...

The US State Department won't be happy about that if what you said were true, because it's a violation of international protocol.

DO whatever they want.
The simple fact is that no-one but they themselves cared so much about it.
I dont really care.

The current Vietnamese society doesnt care about that 3 stripe flag. I am amazed at how much a flag could mean to someone.

There's a commie flag at my University and the VSA here hasn't raised a stink about it (not like at UT Arlington).

can anyone get fobbier than him?

LOL... u bunch of VC make me laugh..


There was a flag by some VC STUDENT at a community college in San Fransico,CA.. withthin three days the flag being up, the whole CALIFORNIA VIETNAMESE PROTEST... the board of director have no choice but to take the flag down....whatcha gotta say bout that? The flag means something to us, means... not having freedom, communsim..hatred.. we use the South Vietnam Flag today represent freedom..forget the past and move on. u can say all the thing u want bout the three stripe flag.. but us over here don't think much of it because all we try to do is help the people in VIETNAM right now... .Think of today.. and what we symbolize to the vietnamese people and what we have done. and if u can tell me what VC does for VIETNAM then say so, in my mind.. u may say i'm idiot, u may say im stupid, but I'm not the one who waving the flag that has a star in the middle.. yeah if they came up with a new flag.. I'm willing to support it as long as it DOES NOT REPRESENT COMMUNSIMS...

Here we go again. That yellow thingy has been defeated morally, politically and militarily. No amount of synchronised waving in California can make it glorious.

...

its not glorious..its justice

Dear All

Although South Vietnam lost to North Vietnam, Viet Kieus escaped and had much more opportunies abroad in the United States, Canada, Australia, Europe, etc.

Please respect the the wishes of Viet Kieus.

Vietnam's flag is flying everywhere in the states. Even in the white house.

In fact it was flying next to the american flag during PM khai's visit.

Go to page 2 for a lot more
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/se...mp;p=&tag=1


http://au.news.yahoo.com/050620/19/usc515/2662798080.html

hello again tiffanyhenii,

it look like you lose this one. that 3 stripe thing is a joke. if you wanna be a real help, make a new flag for your gang ok

[quote name='phreezen' date='Aug 9 2006, 10:21 PM' post='2153373']
Vietnam's flag is flying everywhere in the states. Even in the white house.

In fact it was flying next to the american flag during PM khai's visit.]

the important thing is there's how many people looking at that red flag with respect, hanging that blood flag is just a diplomatic rule, no one likes it except VC supporters

The VC done nothing for VN, it was the fighters that have done something, they UNIFIED the Fatherland while the VNCH did thr complete opposite, were they fighting for freedom or were they FIGHTING FOR THEMSELVE? .That red flag represent the Vietnamese people sacrifices, respect it!
You said the yellow flag stands for freedom? well did you know that the leaders of the VNCH fled and abandoned their troops when they were defeated? did they tell you how corrupted they were? did you know that because of their poor and selfish leadership that the Viet peasants have no choice but to join the VC? they told the people to die for them and then they ran away, like cowards! they dun have the ethic and moral to be leaders. I think you and all the other youths are being biased, you have ben totally brainwashed by VNCH's propagandas.
VNCH did not kill? they did not exploit the people for their own good? they were perfect, so perfect that they dont even have the support from the majority of the Viet people? ask them about the MY LAI inncident, the bombings of innocent Northern Vietnamese, they were supporting the US in killing their own brothers and sisters, you call FREEDOM?
Dont come in here and call US VC just because we dont think the same as you, ok?
Nevertheless, i hope that there will be a new flag so that i can go out on the street and wave it proudly (in sporting events) without feeling any sense of ridiculousness.
If youre a true nationalist you would not recognise or support either flags!
Have a think about it, and ask your parent "father/mother, why did the leaders of the VNCH fled and abandoned their people when they met defeat??" and come back and tell us their answers.

I do agree with you that either flags are reminders of a dark period in Vietnamese history.

Leaders of VNCH fled in 1975 out of fear of persecutions under communism. The same reason why they fled North VN in 1954. In my opinion, those who fled in 1975 made the right choice. Those who later came to the realization of communism/economic disaster fled in 1979. Then there were those who could not flee because they were imprisoned in concentration camps or were already executed. Not until 1990 that these ex-prisoners were able to flee.

Let’s get this straight here. So, you don’t think those VNCH soldiers who fought and died are “Vietnamese people sacrifices” too???? And only the Red Flag soldiers wanted unification? You called people biased but look at how biased you are, my friend.

You have to remember that the Viet Minh and Ho went to the Moscow and learned from Stalin the “know- how”, came back and eliminated many of the Nationalists and their supporters. Do you call that patriotic??? These nationalists fought for and wanted independence for decades from the French. Opposition or national groups in the North were either eliminated or fled to the South. And then stories of VC evils in the North even Ho admitted and apologized after he eliminated many of the influential people there thru Land Reforms etc… By the time of Vietnam War, VC infiltration in the South was overwhelming.

Who are you calling “abandoned”, “corrupted”, “selfish”, “cowards”, “dun have the ethic and moral”, etc…??? All these words came straight out from VC school books. You mean all VNCH leaders? Can you name one? What about hundred of thousands Yellow Flag soldiers in “re-ed camps”? Even the VNCH souls are guarded at the cemeteries. Is that why you respect the Red Flag??!!

In War, all sides try to kill each other. The difference in Vietnam War is the media followed the US soldiers and its allies and recorded almost anything they did. Where is the War coverage on VC side? You don’t think they killed civilians??? You know what the “Tet Offensive” is?

I agree with you that after the War there should be a New Flag. Both the Red and Yellow flags were used in the bloody war and a New Flag will symbolize move-on and reconciliation but the Red People didn’t want that of course. They put hundred thousands VNCH soldiers in prisons and harassed their families. Today is no different-anyone who criticizes the CSVN either goes to jail or get executed. Go ahead, respect the Red Flag and support their continuous oppression of your people. Many of you here enjoy the democracy and freedom either in the US or other democratic countries and yet support the CSVN. Do you know how hypocrite you are? If there is a Red Flag, there will be a Yellow Flag.

When did i say that HO his a hero? i said the Vietnamese FIGHTERS, they fought to united the Fatherland. Jeeezzzz....
quote:"The VC done nothing for VN, it was the fighters that have done something, they UNIFIED the Fatherland"
Open your eyes and read carefully...

Sorry to say . Vietnamese deserve Communism , I think .
1000 yr of Chinese domination had brain washed their minds to the point of no return . They will never understand why

Does Nguyen Van Thieu ring a bell? What about those "leaders" who called for a fight to the death, even as they abandoned their units and were getting ready to fly to America? That the Saigon government was corrupt was common knowledge.


Is that why reports of extensive US atrocities in Vietnam are coming out only now, 40 years later? And why did the media NEVER record any of the atrocities of the ROK soldiers?


I am sure that the US government and its Saigon ally did their damnesdest best to highlight VC atrocities throughout the war to justify themselves. I don't think that the VC killed anywhere the number of civilians that the US government and its Saigon ally did, because: (a) they didn't have the firepower that their enemies had; (b) they couldn't fight a guerrilla war without support from the population; © if they committed too many atrocities too indiscriminately, at least some civilians were bound to inform on them.

Given those factors, the vast majority of civilian deaths must be attributable to the US government and its Saigon ally.


Forget it.

Oaw, now things are easy to understand. You have perfectly explained many of your posts. A Vietnam hater?.

Death better than Red !

No, you did not say Ho is a hero. I apologize if I sounded that way.
No doubt, many Red Flag soldiers fought with their heart and mind in the belief that the South needed liberation from the US evil but many later found out they were lied to. Many realized that but afraid to go against the VC machine. and here's another example of ex Red Flag soldier who speaks up:
http://partners.nytimes.com/library/world/...ietnam-mag.html

Duong Thu Huong is another.....

Next time, eating spagheti, remember: committ suicide first.
Oh, maybe you never eat spagheti?....you eat salami!!!

Both of my grandpas fought for the Viet Minh+National Libertation Front because they want to unify the Fatherland, not because of communism. What make it worst, they have to fought against some of their friends and relative who fought for the VMCH to feed their family. I want both of them to live to see the day the Vietnamese people are truely united. The war is clearly a war of "huynh de tuong tan". I want to heal the scars!
We Viet got stabbed by both the VC and VNCH..........

Of course there were $hitty leaders like Thieu in the VNCH goverment but saying all VNCH leaders were like Thieu is a bit unfair, don't you think? Some atrocities came out 40 years later but during the War they already reported atrocities on the world TVs. Its sick that anyone would committ atrocity and I say the ally reported "most" of the atrocities at that time.

Of course, changing the Flag is not in their book. Soviets liked to keep it Red.

Remember!!! Asians like "red" and "black"

Same here. I have few great uncles from the South went to the North to fight along side with the NVC. Now, the country is unified and they should be happy but they are not. After 1975, the truth set in.

The CSVN is in power and they can do alot to unify the PEOPLE but I haven't seen anything worth mentioned from them. for example, a memorial to dedicate all Vietnamese who gave up their live in the War will be a big gesture to unify all People. 30+ years and still too much hatred.....

Even more red flag soldiers deeply felt ... commited during 1979 's Kampuchea invasion

....

Leaders like Thieu, who promoted based on political loyalty rather than on merit, are the prime reason why RVN never had the chance. The fact is, there are quite a few good Vietnamese who fought on the RVN side, even though they were less than happy with the corrupt and incompetent leadership of the Saigon government. I can understand their motivation, because the Stalinist/Maoist nature of the VCP right up to Doi Moi gives me the creeps.


I am not holding you personally responsible for the very good cover-up job that the US government did. In the mid-80's, I woke up one morning, and learned for the first time in my life from a French newspaper article that the Guatemalan government, which enjoyed US government support, had killed 300000 Guatemalans in 15 years. In general, the US press does a terrible job covering the news: for example, in the last five years, four million civilians died in the Congo Basin wars - and the US media barely mentioned it. But if Brittney Spears get caught speeding, the US media is all over that story.


It's not in mine either. The US flag used to represent some ugly things, like slavery, racial discrimination, the one-sided Indian wars, and democracy and economic opportunity for white men only - It changed over time. Similarly, I expect that the current flag will represent different things over time. If not, the current government will be overthrown - It's simple as that.


You actually OPPOSE our intervention in Kampuchea? Almost any government that would call itself a Vietnamese government would have gone into attack mode in Kampuchea: there is nothing morally wrong with putting a genocidal regime out of business - But then, I am open to the possibility that your morals may be very different than mine.

Viet Cong's ambition at the time was to build another USSR version in Southeast Asia. They invaded Cambodia and Laos. They only let them go when the USSR collapsed.

lol please do some research before you make a claim like that.

2 things that prove your claim wrong:

1) To create a Soviet Union type of system with other countries, you gotta annex the entire country, as in only one government to control the entire union, which is not what happened.

USSR was controlled by the Soviets.

Cambodia and Laos all had their own separate governments that were created by Vietnam. Vietnam never annexed those countries and made them part of Vietnam, they placed Laotian and Cambodian officials in power from the very beginning and thus never annexed those countries.

So how did Vietnam let go of those countries aftetr the USSR collapsed? Before the USSR collapsed the Pathet Lao and CPP were in placed in power by Vietnam. And after it collapsed, they are still in power. What has changed?

2)Vietnam only invaded Cambodia because they attacked Vietnam first and killed civilians intentionally as well. Vietnam had called the Khmer Rouge to negotiate and create a buffer zone many times but the Khmer Rouge refused because back then they had a plan with China for China to attack Vietnam from the North while the Khmer Rouge can take back South Vietnam and kill all the South Vietnamese. Of course that plan didn't work and both of those countries were defeated.

Fact is Vietnam gave the Khmer Rouge plenty of opportunities for negotiations and to establish a buffer zone, so Vietnam wasn't that hungry to dominate Cambodia but had no choice after the Khmer Rouge refused negotiations.

What is USSR short for?

"The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (abbreviated USSR) (Russian: Союз Советских Социалистических Республик (СССР) listen (help·info); tr.: Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik SSSR), more commonly known as the Soviet Union (Russian: Советский Союз; tr.: Sovetskiy Soyuz) was a socialist state that existed from 1922 to 1991. From 1945 until its dissolution in 1991, it was, along with the United States, one of the world's two superpowers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

Cambodia was Vietnam's puppet. Even today, Hun Sen still asks his master Vietnam for advice on whatever he's going to do. Ask the chinese if it's true that the Viet Cong wanted to turn Indochina into another USSR, (Vietcong's own USSR version).





Were you born in Vietnam? The U.S cut their military aids to South Vietnam starting from 1973 while North Vietnam was still getting 1 billion dollars worth of aid from the USSR per year (from Ho's death, the USSR started to send massive aids to North Vietnam til the day the war ended). I'm impressed that South Vietnam could resist the communist attacks for another 2 years before they had to give it up because there were no more ammunition, bombs left. Guns are useless with bullets. Now, Look at Iraq. It's a joke. They lost to the Americans within months even when they had Russian-made weapons.

Even today, the communists are still oppressing their own people. Go to www.ykien.net to find out. So 30 years ago, It must have been 10 times worse. A lot of people have camera phones now, it's hard for them to conceal their crimes nowadays.

Koread War and Vietnam were at two different times. The Media only started to take off during Vietnam War. It helped the US but it also made them lose the war.

[quote name='SVDH_USA' date='Aug 11 2006, 06:01 AM' post='2159584']
Were you born in Vietnam? The U.S cut their military aids to South Vietnam starting from 1973 while North Vietnam was still getting 1 billion dollars worth of aid from the USSR per year (from Ho's death, the USSR started to send massive aids to North Vietnam til the day the war ended).
[/quote]
Both the Soviets and the PRC had cut aid to the DRV after the 1973 accords

[quote name='SVDH_USA' date='Aug 11 2006, 06:01 AM' post='2159584']
I'm impressed that South Vietnam could resist the communist attacks for another 2 years before they had to give it up because there were no more ammunition, bombs left. Guns are useless with bullets.
[/quote]
Attacks don't mean jack. The Communists kept quiet foir a year and a half, for the very good reason that they needed time to rebuild their army and bring in more supplies after the failure of their 1972 offensive. The actual military campaign that took down RVN actually lasted 55 days.

[quote name='SVDH_USA' date='Aug 11 2006, 06:01 AM' post='2159584']
Now, Look at Iraq. It's a joke. They lost to the Americans within months even when they had Russian-made weapons.
[/quote]
Saddam Hussein and his sons probably rank among the most stupid generals or "generals" who ever went into battle. So what if we lost only 300 soldiers and we finished off his armies within three weeks? GWBII's stupidity as a Commander-in-Chief should be obvious to those of us who realize that we have so lost nine soldiers for every soldier that we lost during our initial invasion. In addition, we lost 28000 soldiers due to wounds over the last three years - that's a pretty large number considering that have 125000 soldiers in Iraq, only 20% of whom can be considered infantry combat capable troops (The rest of them are supply and logistics support troops such as Jessica Lynch). And this Iraq episode has cost the US taxpayer $250 bils US so far. So, what point are you trying to make?

My own position is that it is inevitable that we would have to take out Saddam Hussein, but the mere fact that this action is necessary does not mean that GWBII is the right man for the job - And so far, he has done nothing to prove me wrong.



Even today, the communists are still oppressing their own people. Go to www.ykien.net to find out. So 30 years ago, It must have been 10 times worse. A lot of people have camera phones now, it's hard for them to conceal their crimes nowadays.

Koread War and Vietnam were at two different times. The Media only started to take off during Vietnam War. It helped the US but it also made them lose the war.
[/quote]

Ok did the countries that the Russian take to make the USSR, give them independence? No.

Vietnam put 2 separate governments in Cambodia and Laos and each had their own flag from the very beginning. So clearly Vietnam never annexed those countries into Vietnam and they remained independent which is not what the Russians did to the countries when they formed the USSR.



I've stopped trusting Chinese accounts about Vietnamese matters with Indochina after I read this from the China Daily.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/home/...tent_298161.htm



lol the Chinese believe that their act in the Sino-Vietnam War caused the fall of the Soviet Union and the tearing of the Berlin Wall.

I wonder what Americans and Ronald Reagan would have to say about this? I laughed my @$$ off the first time I read that. Just shows that the Chinese cannot be trusted on reporting about Vietnam. lol

..............please stick to the topic! stop these lame talks.

You mean, the same PRC that backed the genocidal Kampuchean regime and whose armed forces invaded Northern Vietnam in a failed effort to rescue their Kampuchean pals for their fate? What's so special about the credibility of the PRC that you would mention them?

You would back Pol Pot and Deng Hsiao Ping, no matter how much damage they do to Vietnam. I see.

LOL, that article was written by one of the site's readers, and it shouldn't be credible.

Look for "Opinion>Readers Voice" on that page.

Vietnam flooded Cambodia and Laos with Vietnamese people. Wasn't their ambition so obvious to see?
I thought the communists brothers should trust each other.

Vietnam is justified in this. Cambodia did start the war with Vietnam which led to the embargo in the 1980s. So Vietnam is just taking war reparations from Cambodia (land,resources,money) to pay back for that embargo with interest.

It's no different than what the Allies did to Gemany in WW2 and replaced them with a more co-operative government who paid back war reparations with land,money, etc to the Allies.

I read about this Soviet Union collapse too . Finally I knew it : VNCH 's

lol after the Khmer Rouge was kicked out, who was gonna rebuild Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge? The Khmers lacked the technical skills to do it since the educated ones were killed off or ran to another country. And the CPP had no recognition from the World so forget about the UN rebuilding it.

It was the CPP who invited them in to rebuild the country with their technical skills.

Excuse me,

"The Soviets and Chinese continued to supply the DRV with large amounts of military aid, thereby facilitating the fall of South Vietnam when it came in 1975, after just such a "decent interval"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

Ok who got more money and support altogether? North Vietnam or South Vietnam? Not to mention South Vietnam even had 3 million US troops to help them.

If anything I'm surprised North Vietnam won given the fact that South Vietnam had more military aid altogether and US troop support.

Of course, VietCong never admit it but they can't fool the whole world.

Yes Vietnam fooled the world yet they bothered to even place a CPP and Pathet Lao government in place rather than just annexing those countries as part of Vietnam like the Russians did with other countries to form the USSR.

Bla bla bla.

North Vietnam's Final Offensive: Strategic Endgame Nonpareil
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/USAWC/Paramet...er/pribbeno.htm

"Much attention has focused on the role ARVN's ammunition shortages played in the collapse of South Vietnam, but it is not generally known that PAVN suffered similar shortages. Soviet and Chinese military aid, especially in the category of "offensive weapons" (armor and artillery), had declined significantly since the Paris cease-fire"

The fact remains that the NVA seized about $2 bils US worth of military equipment after RVN fell, sold off some of it, and used much of what was left over in the Vietnamese attack on Kampuchea's Parrot Beak in 1977(?). Unfortunately, the Khmer Rouge did not take the hint.