http://youtube.com/watch?v=dEETJhtRNrk
oops wrong forum
Well, its good to know that there are Japanese people who have morals 
QUOTE(luminous @ Aug 16 2006, 04:35 PM) [snapback]2183097[/snapback]
Well, its good to know that there are Japanese people who have morals
ya but they're getting fu-ked up...
at least its getting out to the press. Japanese need to wake up.
Huh? Leftist honoring a shrine? o.O
I think this is a 3 sided story that not everyone has seen.. You really gotta look at it in all three sides.
side 1 . Japanese soldiers were As, but they were trained to be ... most of them did not feel any crime was commited cuase the emperor is like a god, so whatever he tells them to do, i'ts justified.
side 2. Those who oppose this are totally agianst it without knowing why people pay respect to these soldiers cause a. they are most likely the familys and victims who's lives were in the hands of the japanese government and b. death is a really harsh punishment that NOBODY deserves, especially de-moralized soldiers
side 3. Those who oppose this are probably the descendants of the anti-nationalist of japan who were murdered or thrown in jail for not being a 'loyal' citizen. Death is a big deal in japan, and Japanese people believe that forgiving those who died is the rigth thing rather than holding grudges.
I had a long live discussion with a japanese elder about these yasukuni shrine visits.
side 1 . Japanese soldiers were As, but they were trained to be ... most of them did not feel any crime was commited cuase the emperor is like a god, so whatever he tells them to do, i'ts justified.
side 2. Those who oppose this are totally agianst it without knowing why people pay respect to these soldiers cause a. they are most likely the familys and victims who's lives were in the hands of the japanese government and b. death is a really harsh punishment that NOBODY deserves, especially de-moralized soldiers
side 3. Those who oppose this are probably the descendants of the anti-nationalist of japan who were murdered or thrown in jail for not being a 'loyal' citizen. Death is a big deal in japan, and Japanese people believe that forgiving those who died is the rigth thing rather than holding grudges.
I had a long live discussion with a japanese elder about these yasukuni shrine visits.
First of all, the title of this thread is a little (actually, completely) mixed up. I viewed the YouTube video. What happened is that a fight broke out between Yasukuni supporters (right wing) and Yasukuni protesters (left wing). The short video does not make clear who started the fight, or, who first "attacked" who.
I had a long live discussion with a japanese elder about these yasukuni shrine visits.
I think you are long overdue for a visit to Yasukuni's own website, you can visit in either English or Japanese. Just Google: Yasukuni, and look for their official homepage. They are completely unrepentant about Japan's wartime actions. They call WWII a glorious war of self defense of Japan. They do not think the war criminals were war criminals, because Tojo Hideki and the other leaders of the time, in Yasukuni's view, were completely correct in their actions. In short, they are not about "the peaceful forgiving of the dead." They are about using the dead for their own need to justify Japan's WWII past.
In the battle of Okinawa, when the government knew the war was lost, they drafted Jr. High school students to go die in Okinawa. Yasukuni does not call these deaths tragic. They call these "glorious sacrafices for Japan's self defense." Adolf Hitler and the Nazis did the same thing, but unlike Yasukuni today, Germans today do not claim these young boys "volunteered." Koreans were also drafted against their will to fight for the Japanese. Their families have demanded Yasukuni remove their names, and Yasukuni has refused.
Yes, as you say, death is serious business, and one should not hold a grudge. But to use the deaths of an entire generation of young men to continue to push a far right wing political agenda that justifies a horrible, useless war and tells lies is just not right.
Perhaps the Germans could build a shrine with Nazi Swastika flags, and include worship of Adolf Hitler along with all the Germans that died in WWII, and tell the Jewish people, "Hey, don't hold a grudge." However, the Germans have completely admitted their mistakes, and reject it all.
In Asia, Japan and Japaense are known as the people that like to make excuses about WWII. Japanese complain about their "irresponsible" leaders (musekinin seijika).
So, because I think you mean well, will you please, please, please, do just one thing before you post one more time about what you "heard" Yasukuni was all about from someone you "heard" say that it was this because they "heard" it was that-- would you please actually go to Yasukuni's own website, and educate yourself about that place?
Many people would greatly appreciate it, especially the poor dead souls that are still held hostage to Japanese right wing politician's right wing agendas. Then maybe they could actually rest in peace when Japan can build a new, real memorial to the dead of WWII that is completely divorced from the political, horrible rightwing, fascist Yasukuni.
QUOTE(Goombaking209 @ Aug 17 2006, 11:56 AM) [snapback]2184290[/snapback]
I had a long live discussion with a japanese elder about these yasukuni shrine visits.
I think you are long overdue for a visit to Yasukuni's own website, you can visit in either English or Japanese. Just Google: Yasukuni, and look for their official homepage. They are completely unrepentant about Japan's wartime actions. They call WWII a glorious war of self defense of Japan. They do not think the war criminals were war criminals, because Tojo Hideki and the other leaders of the time, in Yasukuni's view, were completely correct in their actions. In short, they are not about "the peaceful forgiving of the dead." They are about using the dead for their own need to justify Japan's WWII past.
In the battle of Okinawa, when the government knew the war was lost, they drafted Jr. High school students to go die in Okinawa. Yasukuni does not call these deaths tragic. They call these "glorious sacrafices for Japan's self defense." Adolf Hitler and the Nazis did the same thing, but unlike Yasukuni today, Germans today do not claim these young boys "volunteered." Koreans were also drafted against their will to fight for the Japanese. Their families have demanded Yasukuni remove their names, and Yasukuni has refused.
Yes, as you say, death is serious business, and one should not hold a grudge. But to use the deaths of an entire generation of young men to continue to push a far right wing political agenda that justifies a horrible, useless war and tells lies is just not right.
Perhaps the Germans could build a shrine with Nazi Swastika flags, and include worship of Adolf Hitler along with all the Germans that died in WWII, and tell the Jewish people, "Hey, don't hold a grudge." However, the Germans have completely admitted their mistakes, and reject it all.
In Asia, Japan and Japaense are known as the people that like to make excuses about WWII. Japanese complain about their "irresponsible" leaders (musekinin seijika).
So, because I think you mean well, will you please, please, please, do just one thing before you post one more time about what you "heard" Yasukuni was all about from someone you "heard" say that it was this because they "heard" it was that-- would you please actually go to Yasukuni's own website, and educate yourself about that place?
Many people would greatly appreciate it, especially the poor dead souls that are still held hostage to Japanese right wing politician's right wing agendas. Then maybe they could actually rest in peace when Japan can build a new, real memorial to the dead of WWII that is completely divorced from the political, horrible rightwing, fascist Yasukuni.
QUOTE(Goombaking209 @ Aug 16 2006, 10:56 PM) [snapback]2184290[/snapback]
I think this is a 3 sided story that not everyone has seen.. You really gotta look at it in all three sides.
side 1 . Japanese soldiers were As, but they were trained to be ... most of them did not feel any crime was commited cuase the emperor is like a god, so whatever he tells them to do, i'ts justified.
side 2. Those who oppose this are totally agianst it without knowing why people pay respect to these soldiers cause a. they are most likely the familys and victims who's lives were in the hands of the japanese government and b. death is a really harsh punishment that NOBODY deserves, especially de-moralized soldiers
side 3. Those who oppose this are probably the descendants of the anti-nationalist of japan who were murdered or thrown in jail for not being a 'loyal' citizen. Death is a big deal in japan, and Japanese people believe that forgiving those who died is the rigth thing rather than holding grudges.
I had a long live discussion with a japanese elder about these yasukuni shrine visits.
3 sides? Thats more like 1 side with 3 excuses.
Anyways I don't care if they worship soldiers. Its those war criminals that is the problem. No where in your post did you even mention them. Some say the emperor himself did not know about the actrocities that were being committed. However his top generals and officers knew.
tradition and belief is such a lame excuse. If it were tradition in korea to beat up japanese tourists, is that ok then cus its a tradition? Stupid religious people in japan should realise, once you mess with other countries , the countries have every right to critisize what japan is doing right now which is even remotely connected to its crimes in the past.
QUOTE(Mua @ Aug 19 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]2194977[/snapback]
tradition and belief is such a lame excuse. If it were tradition in korea to beat up japanese tourists, is that ok then cus its a tradition?
Well isn't that a fantastic comparison
I presume nothing has happened with the lawmakers looking into the situation, my cousin didn't know what the crap I was talking about when I mentioned it
Japan is a lost cause. I mean just look at where it is today. Japan doesn't get along with any of its neighbors. Whats funny lately is many people are actually hoping Shinzo abe would do something about the current situation. On BBC, it read "It took Nixon to go to China" LMFAO, this whole thing is so funny. I'm starting to think our generation ain't so lucky after all.
I heard a rumour that the PLA has nuclear missles aimed at Zapan should they ever go crazy like they did in the 1930s-1940s
QUOTE(RentonWong @ Aug 19 2006, 06:38 PM) [snapback]2196484[/snapback]
I heard a rumour that the PLA has nuclear missles aimed at Zapan should they ever go crazy like they did in the 1930s-1940s
They have at least 400 warheads. They might as well as have 'em aimed at all major cities around the world, including the ones in Japan.
hm. my thoughts are like kumonchus.. maybe our generation isnt as lucky after all..
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