Full Version: I'm surprised and VERY disappointed with the Thai court
I'm sadden by this news 
QUOTE(landsknechts @ Sep 7 2006, 03:25 PM) [snapback]2267768[/snapback]
I'm sadden by this news
You're joking right?
Ly Tong is kind of cool. He is like a comic hero. 
What is the chance of Ly Tong and President Bush meeting in Vietnam?
What is the chance of Ly Tong and President Bush meeting in Vietnam?
He has two weeks to protest this decision.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060907/ap_on_...nam_dissident_1
QUOTE
Thai court rules to extradite dissident
BANGKOK, Thailand - A Thai court decided Thursday to extradite a high-profile Vietnamese dissident to face charges of violating airspace for a stunt that involved hijacking a plane and dropping 50,000 anti-communist leaflets over Ho Chi Minh City.
Ly Tong, a South Vietnamese air force veteran who later became a U.S. citizen, hijacked the twin-engine plane from Thailand in November 2000. The leaflet dropping coincided with a visit to Vietnam by former
President Clinton.
Tong, who had hijacked planes before to spread his political message, was arrested after returning to Thailand and later sentenced to five years in prison for violating Thai airspace.
The Vietnamese government sent an extradition request to Thailand in December 2004 charging Tong with slandering the Hanoi government and violating the territorial security of Vietnam.
The Thai court did not consider the slander charge, deeming it a political offense. Thailand does not extradite people to face trial on political charges.
The court ruled, however, that there was "sufficient reason" to extradite Tong to face trial in Vietnam, ruling that "the national security offense is not a political offense."
Tong had argued in court that his leaflet dropping was political, not criminal, and urged Thailand not to follow through with the extradition. Tong also insisted that he had not hijacked the plane, but had hired it for a flying lesson and then took over as pilot.
"This is a crazy court, a crazy justice system," Tong said as he was led out of the court by police with his ankles shackled. "I did not hijack!"
He vowed to appeal the decision within a 15-day deadline.
In December, California State Assemblyman Van Thai Tran led a delegation to Thailand to pressure for Tong's transfer to the United States, saying he had served more than one-third of his prison term — a requirement under a Thai-U.S. treaty.
Tong had sought refuge in the United States after the Vietnam War ended in 1975.
In 1992, he hijacked a Vietnamese Airlines plane and forced the pilot to fly over Ho Chi Minh City as he dropped anti-communist leaflets. He then parachuted from the plane and was captured by Vietnamese authorities and imprisoned.
He was released and returned to the United States in 1998, whereupon he rented an aircraft to drop anti-communist leaflets over Havana, Cuba.
His audacious, self-appointed missions have made him a folk hero among parts of the overseas Vietnamese community as well as in die-hard anti-communist circles.
"I went there to save my country, not harm my country. When I dropped the leaflets in Vietnam, I harmed the Communist Party," he testified last month.
BANGKOK, Thailand - A Thai court decided Thursday to extradite a high-profile Vietnamese dissident to face charges of violating airspace for a stunt that involved hijacking a plane and dropping 50,000 anti-communist leaflets over Ho Chi Minh City.
Ly Tong, a South Vietnamese air force veteran who later became a U.S. citizen, hijacked the twin-engine plane from Thailand in November 2000. The leaflet dropping coincided with a visit to Vietnam by former
President Clinton.
Tong, who had hijacked planes before to spread his political message, was arrested after returning to Thailand and later sentenced to five years in prison for violating Thai airspace.
The Vietnamese government sent an extradition request to Thailand in December 2004 charging Tong with slandering the Hanoi government and violating the territorial security of Vietnam.
The Thai court did not consider the slander charge, deeming it a political offense. Thailand does not extradite people to face trial on political charges.
The court ruled, however, that there was "sufficient reason" to extradite Tong to face trial in Vietnam, ruling that "the national security offense is not a political offense."
Tong had argued in court that his leaflet dropping was political, not criminal, and urged Thailand not to follow through with the extradition. Tong also insisted that he had not hijacked the plane, but had hired it for a flying lesson and then took over as pilot.
"This is a crazy court, a crazy justice system," Tong said as he was led out of the court by police with his ankles shackled. "I did not hijack!"
He vowed to appeal the decision within a 15-day deadline.
In December, California State Assemblyman Van Thai Tran led a delegation to Thailand to pressure for Tong's transfer to the United States, saying he had served more than one-third of his prison term — a requirement under a Thai-U.S. treaty.
Tong had sought refuge in the United States after the Vietnam War ended in 1975.
In 1992, he hijacked a Vietnamese Airlines plane and forced the pilot to fly over Ho Chi Minh City as he dropped anti-communist leaflets. He then parachuted from the plane and was captured by Vietnamese authorities and imprisoned.
He was released and returned to the United States in 1998, whereupon he rented an aircraft to drop anti-communist leaflets over Havana, Cuba.
His audacious, self-appointed missions have made him a folk hero among parts of the overseas Vietnamese community as well as in die-hard anti-communist circles.
"I went there to save my country, not harm my country. When I dropped the leaflets in Vietnam, I harmed the Communist Party," he testified last month.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060907/ap_on_...nam_dissident_1
QUOTE(bluelakedragon @ Sep 7 2006, 08:16 AM) [snapback]2267949[/snapback]
He has two weeks to protest this decision.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060907/ap_on_...nam_dissident_1
$hit !! what are the charges against LT in VN ?
"From BBC News
Luật sư Worasit nói ông thất vọng vì Tòa chỉ dựa trên những gì phía Việt Nam cung cấp mà không cứu xét đầy đủ sự kiện và chứng cứ của bên bào chữa."
Damn, it doesn't seem Lý Tống had a fair trial.
Luật sư Worasit nói ông thất vọng vì Tòa chỉ dựa trên những gì phía Việt Nam cung cấp mà không cứu xét đầy đủ sự kiện và chứng cứ của bên bào chữa."
Damn, it doesn't seem Lý Tống had a fair trial.
"Tong had argued in court that his leaflet dropping was political, not criminal, and urged Thailand not to follow through with the extradition. Tong also insisted that he had not hijacked the plane, but had hired it for a flying lesson and then took over as pilot.
"This is a crazy court, a crazy justice system," Tong said as he was led out of the court by police with his ankles shackled. "I did not hijack!""
Unless I am incorrect, Ly Tong did hijack the plane when he claimed that he had a bomb and demanded that the plane be flown over Saigon.
Ly Tong’s stunts in fight for democratic government split Vietnamese, by Martin Wisckol
The Orange County Register
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/...icle_999570.php
"Then, in September 1992, he went to Thailand and boarded a flight from Bangkok to Vietnam. As the plane approached Ho Chi Minh City, Ly Tong threw a noose around a flight attendant’s neck, falsely declared he had a bomb and ordered the pilot to fly low over the city.
He forced several passes over the city, flinging 50,000 homemade leaflets onto the streets and rooftops."
Oops, I was correct about the wrong plane. My bad. He is in a Thai jail for what he did below (same reference):
"That November, he left Bangkok in a single-engine plane with a flight instructor. They flew over Ho Chi Minh City, and Ly Tong again scattered thousands of anti-communist leaflets. Thai authorities arrested Ly Tong promptly after the plane landed in Thailand.
"He offered the pilot $10,000 to make the trip," said Assemblyman Van Tran, R-Westminster, who visited Ly Tong in December and is lobbying for his release to the United States. "He claimed the Thai pilot cooperated, but the Thai pilot changed his story once they landed and politics took over."
"This is a crazy court, a crazy justice system," Tong said as he was led out of the court by police with his ankles shackled. "I did not hijack!""
Unless I am incorrect, Ly Tong did hijack the plane when he claimed that he had a bomb and demanded that the plane be flown over Saigon.
Ly Tong’s stunts in fight for democratic government split Vietnamese, by Martin Wisckol
The Orange County Register
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/...icle_999570.php
"Then, in September 1992, he went to Thailand and boarded a flight from Bangkok to Vietnam. As the plane approached Ho Chi Minh City, Ly Tong threw a noose around a flight attendant’s neck, falsely declared he had a bomb and ordered the pilot to fly low over the city.
He forced several passes over the city, flinging 50,000 homemade leaflets onto the streets and rooftops."
Oops, I was correct about the wrong plane. My bad. He is in a Thai jail for what he did below (same reference):
"That November, he left Bangkok in a single-engine plane with a flight instructor. They flew over Ho Chi Minh City, and Ly Tong again scattered thousands of anti-communist leaflets. Thai authorities arrested Ly Tong promptly after the plane landed in Thailand.
"He offered the pilot $10,000 to make the trip," said Assemblyman Van Tran, R-Westminster, who visited Ly Tong in December and is lobbying for his release to the United States. "He claimed the Thai pilot cooperated, but the Thai pilot changed his story once they landed and politics took over."
QUOTE
"This is a crazy court, a crazy justice system," Tong said as he was led out of the court by police with his ankles shackled. "I did not hijack!"
yea i have to agree with this..the thai court system is very corrupted and unbalanced. se asia has some of the worst courts in the world, iam sure if he had enough money he couldve gone away clean
QUOTE(Turtle @ Sep 7 2006, 04:36 PM) [snapback]2269847[/snapback]
yea i have to agree with this..the thai court system is very corrupted and unbalanced. se asia has some of the worst courts in the world, iam sure if he had enough money he couldve gone away clean
Thailand has betrayed its old allies. Now, its more like they don't want to upset the CSVN in ASEAN community.
If Thailand believe in democracy and freedom, they need to show it like South Korea did.
Nguyen Huu Chanh did worst things than Ly Tong and the South Korea agreed to let him go based on his political activities. This is going to be bad for Thailand now and in the future if they don't change their action for Mr. Ly Tong. Imagine when Vietnam is no longer a communist state, we won't forget this.........
Hijacking planes is not a crime!
QUOTE(Suijen @ Sep 7 2006, 06:06 PM) [snapback]2269909[/snapback]
Hijacking planes is not a crime!
Do remember what you just said the next time you make an unscheduled stop in Havana
, or more tragically, when someone takes control of your plane and flies it into a building (my office was one block away from the World Trade Center)
He stoled, so he reaped what he sowed.
QUOTE(blacklight @ Sep 7 2006, 05:33 PM) [snapback]2270106[/snapback]
Do remember what you just said the next time you make an unscheduled stop in Havana
, or more tragically, when someone takes control of your plane and flies it into a building (my office was one block away from the World Trade Center)Not a crime because it was for political reasons.
This should be switched.. ly tong to that chanh guy 
QUOTE(Suijen @ Sep 7 2006, 07:36 PM) [snapback]2270114[/snapback]
Not a crime because it was for political reasons.
All these US planes were hijacked to Cuba in the 60's and 70's for political reasons, too. And Al-Qaeda made a specific political demand to us after the destruction of the two World Trade Center: stay away from the Middle East. A crime is a crime, regardless of reason. There are times when a crime can be explained or even be can be considered laudable and praiseworthy, such as the assassination of a tyrant, but a crime is still a crime.
I was being sarcastic.
QUOTE(Suijen @ Sep 7 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]2270145[/snapback]
I was being sarcastic.
Sorry
QUOTE(supernovasp @ Sep 7 2006, 07:43 PM) [snapback]2270135[/snapback]
This should be switched.. ly tong to that chanh guy
Fair exchange, at least according to me.
QUOTE(Suijen @ Sep 7 2006, 05:06 PM) [snapback]2269909[/snapback]
Hijacking planes is not a crime!
He served his time like 6 years in prison for this already. The Thai court don't need to send him back.
QUOTE(bluelakedragon @ Sep 7 2006, 09:38 PM) [snapback]2270496[/snapback]
He served his time like 6 years in prison for this already. The Thai court don't need to send him back.
He violated the laws of both Thailand and Vietnam, so each country gets a crack at him. If I were caught smuggling drugs from Thailand to Vietnam, that's the way it should work.
QUOTE(blacklight @ Sep 8 2006, 09:25 AM) [snapback]2271321[/snapback]
He violated the laws of both Thailand and Vietnam, so each country gets a crack at him. If I were caught smuggling drugs from Thailand to Vietnam, that's the way it should work.
But the laws are questionable.
A lot of senior communist party member broke the law, but were even not hold on custody, tnaks to alledged past contributions to the homeland and the revolution !
Nice to see another American tool whose intention is to subvert Vietnam for American business get justice in order to prevent other Yellow Flag Waver nutcases from doing the same.
QUOTE(blacklight @ Sep 8 2006, 02:25 AM) [snapback]2271321[/snapback]
He violated the laws of both Thailand and Vietnam, so each country gets a crack at him. If I were caught smuggling drugs from Thailand to Vietnam, that's the way it should work.
No doubt he broke Vietnam law by entering into Vietnam air space without permission. but the Thai court has the choice to not extradite him based on his past political activities and send him back is like asking VC to take revenge on him for his political activities. Thai court has said they have a principle of not extradite anyone who's a political activist and also agreed Tong is one.
I don't think this is the end. Having Ly Tong in Vietnam court is not a good thing for CSVN anyway. International media coverage will be bad for them. Just hope Ly Tong keeps his spirit up.........
QUOTE(bluelakedragon @ Sep 8 2006, 03:47 PM) [snapback]2272320[/snapback]
No doubt he broke Vietnam law by entering into Vietnam air space without permission. but the Thai court has the choice to not extradite him based on his past political activities and send him back is like asking VC to take revenge on him for his political activities. Thai court has said they have a principle of not extradite anyone who's a political activist and also agreed Tong is one.
I don't think this is the end. Having Ly Tong in Vietnam court is not a good thing for CSVN anyway. International media coverage will be bad for them. Just hope Ly Tong keeps his spirit up.........
i think ly tong should be free, and nguyen huu chanh should be extradited.
QUOTE(bluelakedragon @ Sep 8 2006, 03:47 PM) [snapback]2272320[/snapback]
No doubt he broke Vietnam law by entering into Vietnam air space without permission. but the Thai court has the choice to not extradite him based on his past political activities and send him back is like asking VC to take revenge on him for his political activities. Thai court has said they have a principle of not extradite anyone who's a political activist and also agreed Tong is one.
I don't think this is the end. Having Ly Tong in Vietnam court is not a good thing for CSVN anyway. International media coverage will be bad for them. Just hope Ly Tong keeps his spirit up.........
I agree that for the government, Ly Tong's extradition to Vietnam may very well be a case of "Be careful what you wish for, because you might get your wish!": the government's irritation at Ly Tong's stunts notwhistanding, the government cannot point to him having hurt any Vietnamese. The dude is a US citizen, so having him worked over while he is in jail is out of the question.
The most likely scenario is that Ly Tong will get to make a series of inflammatory statements in court which will mainly confirm that having him was not a good idea to begin with, get VIP treatment in jail because someone from the US embassy will be visiting him constantly, and be released at the first amnesty because holding him AND keeping him healthy is too much of a strain on the government's nerves. Once he is released, he of course gets to write a best-selling book about how the cads mistreated him, poor innocent baby face Ly Tong, and then he gets a chance to thumb his nose at the government, this time in print - and make money at it, too.
The argument here is not about the bad or the good that Ly Tong did. The reason he is extradiated back to Vietnam and will be jailed is because he has flied over the Vietnamese ariel territory without permission. In any sovereign nation, having a foreign airplane over its sky without permission is a serious matter.
I'm sure that Vietnam will keep him in jail to let others know the message. Thailand did the right thing. Drug smuggling people and terrorist people should be put in jails. People who attempted that kind of act on Vietnam often had criminal record in US, UK, Australia already. No suprise there.
I'm sure that Vietnam will keep him in jail to let others know the message. Thailand did the right thing. Drug smuggling people and terrorist people should be put in jails. People who attempted that kind of act on Vietnam often had criminal record in US, UK, Australia already. No suprise there.
The skies over Vietnam and particularly the Saigon/HCM and Hanoi metro areas are most probably getting more crowded. It will be unaccepatble - if it is not already - for small passenger planes to loiter over the Saigon/HCM and Hanoi metro areas without filing a flight plan beforehand.
The guy knew the risk and consequences before pulling off such a stupid stunt.
I wish Ly Tong's actions can inspire Vietnamese people to blow all the the monkeys and its crazy communist ideas out of the nation.
QUOTE(hohoho_ @ Sep 9 2006, 01:01 PM) [snapback]2273776[/snapback]
I wish Ly Tong's actions can inspire Vietnamese people to blow all the the monkeys and its crazy communist ideas out of the nation.
On the contrary, everyone thinks that his action is stupid. If i go to you and put in your head some strange ideas that this thing is better than the other thing, i dont think you will listen to me. Action like that is mindless. Getting a message across requires skill, not violence and criminal act.
QUOTE(TINMAN @ Sep 8 2006, 08:13 PM) [snapback]2273093[/snapback]
The guy knew the risk and consequences before pulling off such a stupid stunt.
I might be in the minority here, but I think he's courageous. Making a political statement sometimes requires, within reasons, drastic actions. In that sense, his "stunt" is far from stupid. I am not advocating hijacking airplanes (and totally against bombing embassies or plowing aircrafts into non-military buildings), but I've got to give it to him having the cajones to act out on his political belief.
Another vote from me to free Ly Tong in exchange for Nguyen Huu Chanh.
c....
I agree that Ly Tong should be exchanged for Nguyen Huu Chanh
QUOTE(TrashCleaner @ Sep 8 2006, 06:23 PM) [snapback]2272945[/snapback]
The argument here is not about the bad or the good that Ly Tong did. The reason he is extradiated back to Vietnam and will be jailed is because he has flied over the Vietnamese ariel territory without permission. In any sovereign nation, having a foreign airplane over its sky without permission is a serious matter.
I'm sure that Vietnam will keep him in jail to let others know the message. Thailand did the right thing. Drug smuggling people and terrorist people should be put in jails. People who attempted that kind of act on Vietnam often had criminal record in US, UK, Australia already. No suprise there.
I agree - drug smuggling people and terrorists should be in prison.
I hope you're not suggesting Ly Tong is a terrorist. VCs are trying to portrait him as a terrorist as well and I hope you're not buying it.
It's laughable for LT to be tried under criminal law for violating border security as opposed to political charges. He went there with the intention of dropping anti-commies leaflets. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, there were no bomb or explosive devices on the plane, weren't there? So, the commies can't call him a terrorist. Besides, did he really hijack the plane? Or he was reported to have hijacked a plane? Any hard proof? From the article below, there was no indication he hijacked the plane.
There is no doubt CSVN is trying to discourage similar actions to happen in the future, so they are trying to do whatever it can (I wouldn't be surprised if CSVN lobbied Thai's court) to have LT extradited to VN, charged with political offences, and put to jail for life sentence. They can suppress and harass its people, but they can't kill the will. There are evidences the will and the moment are getting stronger!
Way to go Ly Tong. Continue to appeal and fight, you will win. Your acts are courageous
============================================
Vietnam hails Ly Tong decision
...
On Nov 17, 2000, the former jet fighter pilot hired Teera Sukying, a pilot instructor from Bo Fai Flying Centre, to give him a flying lesson in a small, twin-engine aircraft.
After takeoff, Ly Tong pleaded for Captain Teera's help with the promise that he would get 561,000 baht. He then took the controls and headed for Ho Chi Minh City, over which he dropped 50,000 leaflets calling for an uprising against the communist government, just before a visit by former US president Bill Clinton.
There is no doubt CSVN is trying to discourage similar actions to happen in the future, so they are trying to do whatever it can (I wouldn't be surprised if CSVN lobbied Thai's court) to have LT extradited to VN, charged with political offences, and put to jail for life sentence. They can suppress and harass its people, but they can't kill the will. There are evidences the will and the moment are getting stronger!
Way to go Ly Tong. Continue to appeal and fight, you will win. Your acts are courageous
============================================
Vietnam hails Ly Tong decision
...
On Nov 17, 2000, the former jet fighter pilot hired Teera Sukying, a pilot instructor from Bo Fai Flying Centre, to give him a flying lesson in a small, twin-engine aircraft.
After takeoff, Ly Tong pleaded for Captain Teera's help with the promise that he would get 561,000 baht. He then took the controls and headed for Ho Chi Minh City, over which he dropped 50,000 leaflets calling for an uprising against the communist government, just before a visit by former US president Bill Clinton.
Even though his acts are courageouse. It is dangerous and put many people at risk
Although I disagree with his acts, I think he's a tough and brave individual. If indeed he is to be extradited to Vietnam, then it really means the people who were behind him actually have abandoned him. Unfortunately, he's in the midst of the "war on terror". He's 60 now, already passed the age required for action. He should be returned to the U.S, perhaps in exchange for Nguyen Huu Chanh. Enough punishments in Thai jails. It's time to settle down. One man band can not change the tide of history.
I hope things turn around soon. Ly Tong said that he will kill himself if he is to be extradited. While I hope this won't happen. If it did, it will show everybody that he is serious. There would be mass protests everywhere. I swear I will joint those protests.
Now there's a rally in Westminster, CA to save the guy from being extradited. There were banners and tables set up to gather signatures for some petition directed toward the Thai consular office.
It looks like Ly Tong is not going to VN anytime soon because Thailand just has another coup.
QUOTE(TINMAN @ Sep 12 2006, 08:37 PM) [snapback]2287527[/snapback]
Now there's a rally in Westminster, CA to save the guy from being extradited. There were banners and tables set up to gather signatures for some petition directed toward the Thai consular office.
I don't think that can change anything
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