We all know that china has a hidden agenda behind its foreign policy of peaceful rise. Read the brilliant article in joongandaily.

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200609/15/2...0090109011.html
[EDITORIALS]More demands from China
After arguing that Mount Paektu is part of its territory, China is now claiming an island off the coast is its territory as well.

The Chinese officials said that Ieo reef is located below the water in the northern part of the East China Sea, and a spokesman from the Chinese Foreign Ministry dismissed Korea's claim to the reef as lacking legal grounds.

Technically, since the Ieo reef is lying underwater, it isn't part of our territory. However, it is located within our exclusive economic zone. It is 245 kilometers (153.5 miles) off the closest Chinese island, Tongdao, but only about 150 kilometers from Korea's southernmost inhabited island, Mara Island.
We are in a discussion with China on the zone, but a general rule of thumb in international law is that if the ocean between the two nations is less than 200 nautical miles, then the mid point becomes the boundary of the EEZ.

In that case, the Ieo reef is part of our territory. It's none of China's business if we build an ocean research station there. For the Chinese to make such a claim in order to secure ocean resources is ludicrous.

We think it is a meticulous calculation on their part that the Chinese raised the Ieo reef issue. A series of provocations, from distorting the history of the Goguryeo Kingdom and Balhae to claiming Mount Paektu as historically Chinese, have displayed the Chinese people's hegemonic agenda.

The Chinese government is apparently considering Korea to be an easy target, and this situation has been brought on by the Korean government itself. We have responded weakly to the Chinese claims.
The government must tackle the Chinese officials on their Ieo reef charges, and firmly establish the jurisdiction of the reef. It's about time we tell the Chinese what they need to hear.

Why so much China-bashing on this Korean Chat ?????

Flavour of the month after the Balhae thing. It'll slowly quiet down once the Chinese researchers move on or also quiet down.

because they think we're fun to bash

Yup.

I guess it will be payback time once China becomes a SUPERPOWER !

Where is that arrogance coming from? I thought chinese economy will stop growing in 15 years, because of the fast ageing population.

no, it's just easy to

well, chinese will run things soon...

^not soon, but eventually

Well, i'm actually neither asian, nor white. From the third party viewpoint, I can't see that china could be a super power. The word "china" can mean "cheap labors", "do any dirty stuffs for pennies", "pirating and violation of copyright". How could "china" be superpower? When you talk about chinese rise to the status of superpower, you mean the population outnumbers the other nations, right? But India anyway will overtake china's population, and china, on the other hand, will suffer the unbalanced population structures due to the "One child policy". I also hear that china's financial systems are nearly collapsed and vietnam has attracted much of recent FDIs. It seems to me that why china will avoid getting busted up is more appropriate questions than china to take over the superpower status.

Joongang daily and Chosun daily tend to exggerate the things when they report.

Example ,when it comes to these medias reporting about hanryu ,
they like show main title like as "Korean wave invading the place "

Also their reporting made great contribution of American side to misunderstand 'Korea and Roh's administration is the big anti US totally'
They always like report things as they intend and like to report about their disliked opponent to the their bigger worshipper and ignorant readers.

The Ieo island , PRC government report came after Korean medias reaction according to Chinese ambassador in Korea.

http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=L...amp;menu_id=100

And their report and edit stance is very frequently changing like a oppotunitist behave.

Its very pity that these medias are two biggest in Korea and they only have financial ability to update english edition on daily basis.

Oh good. So we'll have much more to bash in the future. Always easiest to bash arrogant super-powers.

More excellent articles on this issue.

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200609/18/2...0090109012.html
[VIEWPOINT]For survival, we must win on Goguryeo

In almost all important international sports events, we find that the Scandinavian countries' teams, almost without exception, compete at world-class level.
Sweden, Norway and Finland have highly developed sports clubs. When such big sports events as the European Football Association Cup competition or World Cup soccer games are held, the Vikings that once terrorized all of Europe by invading other countries in the 8th century pour out from their peninsula to go to the European cities where the sports are being played and cheer on their national teams.
For the Scandinavians, the Viking is their icon. Interestingly, the Swedes, Norwegians and the Finnish, the sports powers of Scandinavia, all claim they are descendants of the Vikings. Wearing headgear with horns and brandishing toy axes for cheering, they triumphantly march to the European continent. With their strongly built bodies and bright blond hair, they make a strong impression.
There is another group of Vikings pouring out of the Scandinavian peninsula. They are the Danish Vikings. The Danish sportsmen are the closest to the Vikings, as they are dauntless fighters.
Various Vikings, that is, the cheering squads of each Scandinavian country, engage in a vigorous cheering competition until the end of their teams' games.
Although people from four different countries all claim that they are the "original Vikings," the real Vikings in sports can be decided only after the competition or the match is over. And the real Viking changes every time there is a big match, because the team that racked up the best score will stay in the arena alone and bask in the limelight of the wire services. Vikings in history created the mythology of Northern Europe and provided an identity to the Scandinavians.
In our ancient history, we have the memory of Goguryeo, which stirred the world and its history like the Vikings. However, Goguryeo cannot be an object of competition, like the Vikings. We consider Goguryeo as something to which the essence of our spirit and identity belong, as well as the highlight of our ancient history that connects us with the past.
In the voice of Koreans who shout out "Goguryeo!" we can sense a kind of determination. Goguryeo, which once commanded all of East Asia, was part of our glorious past and a symbol of the vast land of Manchuria and northeastern part of China that was once under their command, but has since been lost.
Therefore, for us, King Gwanggaeto the Great was a greater conqueror than Alexander the Great and the epitaph of the monument erected by the great king is a great historical asset, and we cannot concede even one letter inscribed on it. For all that, China has clandestinely promoted a project called the "Northeast Research Project," under which China considers Goguryeo and Goguryeo's descendant, the Balhae Dynasty, as Chinese regional governments. They incorporate the history of the two into China's history.
We cannot but roll our eyes in dismay.
Moreover, the North-East Research Project, which incorporated the history of Goguryeo and Balhae into Chinese history and included the land north of the Daedong River, which runs across Pyongyang, as part of China's territory, conceals an explosive element that can threaten the future of a unified Korea, not to mention the distortion of our history. If North Korea collapses, for example, and the results of China's Northeast Research Project are incorporated officially as part of Chinese history, China might insist on its preemptive right to the land north of Daedong River. Then the Daedong River will become the national boundary between China and a unified Korea, reducing the territory of Korea to that of the Unified Silla era again. The explosive power of the project is so enormous that Koreans who pay attention to the progress of the Chinese move cannot help but be sensitive and worried.
Since the Chinese research project is a spiritual and cultural invasion that threatens the origin of the Korean race and our identity, we cannot agree to what the Chinese claim.
Whether we want it or not, the "history war" has already started and, as often occurred in the past, this time China crossed over the national boundary first.
The war this time is not a war in which the winner can change every time, like in sports events. It will be a long battle in which absolute victory is the only way for our survival.

* The writer is a deputy sports and culture news editor of the JoongAng Ilbo.


by Hur Jin-seok

I don't really care about if Koguryo is considered Korean but Bohai is proto-Manchu period.

Guys, do you want me to post more genetic evidences?

Post them, post as many as you can, see if I care.

Good question. So where is your hatred/contempt coming from? Anyone with a half-assed brain can see that there is no lacking of a hidden agenda behind your apparent criticisms.

I have no hatred, I only have love. Please explain what kind of hatred do i have.

If I can categorize hence explain someone else's hatred/contempt then I would not be sitting here making useless posts on forums such as this one. You say you have no hatred about anything and yet have clearly taken a light-hearted joke as an offense appealing to arrogance and ignorance. This hints that you are bitterly sensitive to most non-antichina comments and would rather regard the comment to be of serious substance due to your own critical attitude on the subject. Additionally, often we can tell when someone blatantly throws in a lie in light of the comment - "I only have love". If you're serious about your what you say, then I'd really question your understanding about yourself and reality around you. Nobody likes everything. There has and will always be things that annoy people, hence becoming a target of contempt and/or if severe enough, hatred.

Don't get too serious, man.

Chinese doesn't NEED to care about north east asian history. period. instead, why not look into more of your kind, for example, your fellow south east asians, vietnamese, thais, khmers, hmong, and so on.

Too serious about what? Whether chinese not needing to care about north east asian history or south east asian history is none of my concern.... unless... it has always been your concern. Which if true, would reaffirm my point.

what is north east asains? is that a new spcies?

That's the name of the new hybrid drug that cures the dillusion, and mental disability.

does north east asians theory replace pan-altaic theory?

Koreans should unite with tieir elder racial brothers the Japanese.

Leave Chinese alone, we are sino-tibetans, we share origins with burmese and tai peoples then with koreans.

everyone has a agenda , whats new?

In regards to Koguryo, Korea is absolutely the natural inheritors of this kingdom. The capital of the Koguryo state was Pyongyang, which is still the capital of North Korea to this day. In fact, throughout is history Korea's capital was Pyongyang, before Korea was artificially divided in two and moved to Seoul. But that's recent history, only about 50 years ago.

Koguryo=Koryo=Korea

^so you're saying pyongyang should be the rightful capital of a united korea?

^Did I say that? Read again.

^you basically said koguryeo belongs to korea, because korea occupies the land that was used to be koguryeo. i wonder, can the present government of Iraq claim Sumeria? Babylon? Can Syria claim Assyria was its own? Can Turkey claim the Hittites? all these countries occupy land that was once these former ancient countries

Korea has a lot more connection with Koguryo than simple land occuation, such as culture etc. Koreans still uses many its traditions like the ondol bang (heated floors), which is prevalent in every household in Korea today. Even the name Koryo/Korea (which is hundreds of years old) is derived from Koguryo because we have historically seen ourselves as the rightful inheritors. You would think that if a country still retains the capital of a kingdom for thousands of years, you are at least ethnically connected to people and culture of its predecessors. I don't think that you are talking about simple land occupation as you lightly put it. That's probably a more apt description of Chinese's claim.

cultural traditions are easily transferable from one culture to another. koguryeo was distinct from other korean kingdoms as far as linguistics is concerned.

about the captial thing, don't be quite sure. populations come and go, and so do ethnic groups. the city of rome has experience many demographic changes since its founding, changing from the etruscans to latins, to romans, then to germanics, and then to italians. many ethnic groups and their respective empires (the ones i listed above) have disappeared in time, and no one knows what has come of them. perhaps koguryeo people assimilated into koreans, or perhaps not. maybe they moved north and joined the other people in the area, the jurchens, mohe, khitan, xianbei, mongol, or maybe even chinese. there is no conclusive evidence that links koguryeo to a direct successor.

That's ludicrous. Capital of Koguryo was pyongyang. Capital of North Korea Pyongyang. That's pretty much conclusive evidence that Koreans are the inheritors of Koguryo. Nothing much has changed in the Peninsula, like people coming and going. Heck, if there was such movement then genetically Koreans would be more genetically connected to the Chinese for instance, but that's not the case.

^i'm not referring to flow of people between china and korea (although it did happen) im referring to the flow people between korea and other parts of north and northeast asia like mongolia, manchuria, etc. back then ethnic diversity in NE asia was much more complex than it was now.

Pyongyang was actually the capital of Han commandery Lelang.

Koguryo started out in yalu basin in the Han Xuantu commandery and recieved some Puyo migrants from manchurian plains and slowly expanded.

It only moved its capital to a safer region around Pyongyang near its last centuries of existence probrably due to multiple sacking of its former capitals by Xianbeis.

^so are you claiming Pyongyang is actually Chinese HAHAHAHA. Pyongyang was never city until Koguryo destroyed built its infrastructure into a city. It has remained unchanged since then.

@nw
Your hypos are fictitious at best. But even, these north, northeast asians (even assuming they have a rightful claim and there was such a mix) they are not the ones bringing the claim against Korea. It's China. Korea has remain Korea ethinically, geographically. Where do these fictitious characters northerners in come from? I think maybe you are confusing China with Korea. Korea is not a diverse at all. It is country made out of a handful of ethnically related clans. It has always been that way.

you didn't understand my point at all.

nowhere did i say that china should claim koguryeo. i think you are confusing me with someone else.

Lelang/Lolang/Rangnang was built near Pyongyang. Koguryo later annexed it.

Koguryo emerged in a region thought to be centered on the middle Yalu and T'ung-chia river basin. The Koguryo people took the lands from the native Yemaek, and it would appear that this political entity was ruled by the Ye "lord" Namnyo, who was in an account of events of the second century B.C. is said to have held dominion over a population of 280,000. Thus the leadership elite of the Koguryo was not native to the area it came to rule, but the state that evolved there must have represented a coalescence of this new force with the indigenous society.

Yes, in 427, King Changsu transferred the Koguryo capital to Pyongyang.

i don't understand why some chinese would use lelang as justification over claims on certain korean kingdoms. lelang was just a frontier outpost for some chinese settlers, nothing more.

just because koguryo destroyed it and Built Over It , doesn't mean it wasn't chinese territory.

^please, stop making this thread worse

koguryo crown prince and two sons of the prime ministers all died in sichuan province and luoyan(near Tang's capital) which are 2000 miles away from koguryo land. So in terms of political inheritance, China 1 vs Korea 0.

Most of koguryo refugees were removed from koguryo and were relocated into henan province and gansu province. Silla did take sizeable refugees too. Some koguro refugees also fled to mohe and khitan. So in terms of blood lineage, China 1 vs Manchu 0.5. vs korea 0.5

Most of koguryo historical sites are in China. Some in north korea. So in terms of phyical treasure. China 2 vs korea 1

In terms of culture lineage, this is fuzzy. no one knows how much koguro culture is inherited by who. China 0 : korea 0

Add them all up, China vs Korea = 4.5 vs 1.5

China pwned Korea!

You dont know when to give up.

@Gotmilk

Pyongyang= Capital of Korea aka Koguryo. Koguryo sites are where in China? Most Chinese don't even know. The move to Pyongyang was a final move by Koguryo. In migrating, they took anything important to their final destination, leaving stuff they couldn't move or didn't find relavant to the Koguryo culture behind in China. Thus, Pyongang is the final stop and real capital of Koguryo.

Koguryo is Korean or at best ethnically related Korean clan. Chinese try to make the case that they are an alien to Koreans, but that's a straw man argument. You might have an argument in Japan, where Japanese can loook SE Asian, Polynesian, Korean, but not Korea, a homogenous society built ot a handful of ethnically related tribes where you could even say that one looks like one other's cousin. Thus, koguryo is racially and ethnically a Korean clan.

Personally, I don't think many Chinese even care about Koguryo. It's only because they think Koguryo is Manchu-related, and they find Manchus "glamorous", so that what's drawing to Koguryo and trying make such a deal about it. Heck if the site was located SE asia, none of the Chinese here would give a damn.

I think China's official position is Koguryo was a kingdom setup not by Han people or Manchus(Mohe/Sushen).

However neither was it setup by modern day Koreans who are believed to be majority Silla descendents.

It was setup by an ethnic group who spoke an language that was different to Silla and malgal and Tang. They were different from the sam-Han peoples south of the Han river and was also different to Mohe(Malgal) peoples north of them.

When Koguryo was destrpyed, the land and its people was split between Tang and Silla and later Bohai(Parhae).

Therefore atleast half of Koguryo's descendents are actually Modern day Chinese by the virtual fact that Tang relocated almost half of its population to China proper and that Parhae was eventually absorbed by Khitan and Jurchen who then melted into Ming population.


China's position on Parhae is that it has absoluted little to do with modern day korea.
It was setup by Sumo-mohe general Da zuo rong and is considered a proto-manchu kingdom.

Also both Koguryo and Parhae paid tribute to 'center' and thus is regarded as regional governments.(Which I don't approve of.)

There that pretty much China's position regarding these history matters.

Personally I don't care if Koguryo is korean or not but I definitely agree that Parhae is sumo-mohe and has little relations to korea.

i think its just fate that Japan and China will always try to screw us over. You know its just incredible realising that throughout our history, we've never had a peaceful era where we were free from any invasions or attempts of it from the chinese and the japanese, even millenniums ago.

And you would think today in this day and age of democracy, history will never repeat itself. But look whats happening right before our eyes! The ghosts of the imperialists are back, this time theyre not using any physical weapons to attack us like in the past times, but now its happeing through diplomatic and political channels, through sophisticated means. It seems as though there is an invisible baton thats being carried down in the ranks of leaders and government in both china and japan that guides them to unsettle, disrupt, and wreak havoc on the Land of the Morning Calm.

Once we settle scores with china's theft of our ancient history, do you think there will be peace and rest after that? i doubt it, they will come up with something else to disintegrate us, who knows theyll probably argue that Silla belongs to china. Same goes for japan, once we settle the scores with them on our Dokdo island, theyll cause another controversy over something sacred of ours.

To all you Koreans around the world, have you ever thought about this? Do you realise that Korea was, is, and probably always will be violated by her neighbours.

Well said. However, not quite up on the idea that Korea should "settle the scores with them". Diplomacy and tact are important for a middle power such as Korea. Also, not quite sure that "Korea was, is, and probably always will be violated by her neighbours." Korea, or Silla whatever forms Korea has taken int the past, was once more powerful than it is now and has committed it's own aggression in the past.

De

agree with your opinion that not many average Chinese know or care about koguryo because it is not taught by Chinese schools. most of koreans dont read original classic hanja history of koguryo and bohai either. I doubt korean scholors have no political agenda by incoporating bohai into his history. Btw, pls do read the orginal text of old book of tang, new book of tang, and nohongi. after reading those text, the whole thing will be more clear to you people, since all these historians argue based on these three books. there were INTERNATIONAL WARS occured among tang ,silla, gokturk, khitan, koguryo, mohe, and xi. they were all seperated entities at the time. it was not like silla and koguryo had a civil war.