This is what we don't want.Next Japanese would want Nukes.

These are the consequences of propping up the Kim Jong-il regime, providing him with aid, and allowing him to develop nuclear weapons. The entire region will be nuclearized, and it has already sparked a re-militarization of Japan.

How do most people on this board feel about North Korea getting nukes? A friend of mine once said that it would be great for North Korea to get nukes. Do you guys agree with that?

i'm fine with that.

lol East Asias gettin seriousssss. nukes, re-militarization. crazy.

Do you think that every nation should be allowed to have nukes then?

This could be interpreted to mean, "Adults in S. Korea each want their own nuclear weapons"

"I don't feel safe anymore, what with the crime and all in the neighborhood. I think I will be able to protect my family if I has an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile"

every household should be armed with a nuke

Only Japan and USA are having problem with letting North Korea have Nukes. Russia, China, S. Korea, Taiwan, Mongolia, Hong KOng, Singapore....etc have no problem with North Korea having Nukes.

^you said s. koreans have no problem giving Kim a nuke? wow.

fu-k i want a nuke too, $hit.

I guess that's why China and Russia and the entire world condemned the nuke tests? I guess that's why the whole world condemned the missile tests? I guess that's why North Korea is about to get hit with international sanctions? Hmmm......your comment doesn't seem to match up with reality....

you are really wrong and really stupid.

Hard to blame them with a mad man living next door.

China and Russia hardly give a sh*t about Kim cranking out Nukes or else they would have supported Uncle SAM's sanction that involves military intervention. The world doesn't care about a Nuclear N. Korea...they are just going along with whatever Uncle SAM wants them to do to please her because they need the American market for their products.



너는 어리석다

I thought Russia's main export was oil. You don't need to cater to the US to export oil. Look at Chavez. Yet, Russia denounced NK's nuke tests and favor sanctions. So that part of your theory doesn't hold up.

WRT China, North Korea only screws China over, just as bad as they screw the US over. It is not in Chinese interests to be completely surrounded by nuclear-armed countries, especially if it leads Japan and South Korea and perhaps even Southeast Asia to get nukes. Also, look at the anti-ballistic missile program. Thanks to North Korea's nuclear ambitions, Japan and the United States have deployed anti-ballistic missile batteries in Japan and aboard Aegis cruisers. This really puts a hurting on China's tiny and obsolete nuclear deterrent. China got screwed by North Korea. The problem for China is that they are caught in between two things they don't like: North Korea getting nukes and the DPRK collapsing and being abosrbed by South Korea, which has an alliance with the US.

U.S. Hits Obstacle in Getting a Vote on North Korea
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/sf/nyt10_14_6_4.htm

U.N. adopts resolution against N. Korea

UNITED NATIONS - The
U.N. Security Council voted unanimously on Saturday to impose punishing sanctions on North Korea for its claimed nuclear test, declaring that its action posed "a clear threat to international peace and security."

North Korea immediately rejected the resolution, and its U.N. ambassador walked out of the council chamber after accusing its members of a "gangster-like" action which neglects the nuclear threat posed by the United States. Ambassador Pak Gil Yon said North Korea wants talks but warned that it will consider increased U.S. pressure a declaration of war.

The vote came after the United States, Britain and France overcame last-minute differences with Russia and China during what Russia's U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin called "tense negotiations."

The resolution demands North Korea eliminate all its nuclear weapons but expressly rules out military action against the country — a demand by the Russians and Chinese. U.S. Ambassador John Bolton warned Pyongyang, however, that if it continues pursuing nuclear weapons, the United States would seek further measures.

The Security Council condemned the nuclear test that North Korea said it conducted on Oct 9. It demanded that North Korea immediately return to six-party talks aimed at persuading Pyongyang to dismantle its weapons program without precondition.

It imposed sanctions for the North's "flagrant disregard" of the council's appeal not to detonate a nuclear device and demanded that North Korea "not conduct any further nuclear test or launch of a ballistic missile."

The resolution bans the import or export of material and equipment that could be used to make nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles. It orders all countries to freeze the assets and ban travel for anyone engaged in supporting North Korea's weapons programs.

To meet Russian and Chinese concerns, the Americans eliminated a complete ban on the sale of conventional weapons. Instead, the resolution limits the embargo to major hardware such as tanks, warships, combat aircraft and missiles.

The resolution calls on all countries to inspect cargo leaving and arriving in North Korea to prevent any illegal trafficking in weapons of mass destruction or ballistic missiles. The final draft was softened from language saying the council "decides" — which is a stronger authorization.

But China's U.N. Ambassador Wang Guangya said after the vote that the provision allowing the boarding of ships to inspect cargo was still unacceptable to Beijing.

The accord came as U.S. officials said Friday that an air sampling after North Korea's claimed nuclear test detected radioactive debris consistent with an atomic explosion. However, the Bush administration and congressional officials said no final determination had been made about the nature of Monday's mystery-shrouded blast.

Results from another test disclosed Friday — an initial air sampling on Tuesday — showed no evidence of radioactive particles that would be expected from a successful nuclear detonation, a U.S. government intelligence official said.

South Korea and Japan have also been monitoring their environment for signs of a nuclear test. Both said they had found no unusual levels of radiation as of Saturday.

"Until we reach a final conclusion that North Korea's nuclear test was indeed genuine, we should be open to various and comprehensive judgments," South Korea's presidential spokesman Yoon Tae-young said.

The U.S. and other nations trying to persuade the North to give up its atomic program continued a flurry of high-level diplomatic visits. Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice planned a trip next week to Asia; Russia sent an envoy to Pyongyang; and the presidents of China and South Korea — the North's main sources of trade and aid — met in Beijing to discuss the proposed resolution.

Rice's trip is meant to present a unified front to North Korea, which will be looking for any cracks in the diplomatic coalition behind the U.N. statement.

Rice's trip to China, South Korea and Japan is the next step in the U.S. diplomatic offensive at the United Nations and with Pyongyang's neighbors. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said "she's going to be talking about the passage of that resolution certainly, but really what comes after."

A Russian nuclear envoy who visited North Korea said Saturday he pressed the North to return to six-nation nuclear disarmament talks. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Alexeyev said he had a "very useful" meeting Friday with Kim Gye Gwan, the North's nuclear negotiator, but did not say how Kim responded. Alexeyev spoke on his arrival in Beijing from Pyongyang, North Korea's capital.

Pyongyang has boycotted the six-nation talks for the past 13 months to protest financial measures imposed by Washington for alleged counterfeiting and money-laundering.

Earlier a Russian news agency quoted Alexeyev as saying North Korea favors the implementation of a year-old agreement to abandon its nuclear programs in exchange for aid and security guarantees.

The report apparently referred to an agreement reached in September 2005 at the talks involving the two Koreas, the U.S., China, Russia and Japan. If the Russian report is confirmed, it could signify a major breakthrough in efforts to curb North Korea's nuclear ambitions.

That's absurd. China, Russia and SK are all officially against the North having nukes. I guess it's mainly because they don't want Japan to go nuclear... Which is an odd reason in my mind.

You didn't reply to the points I made in my post. Also, poiting out that the US "hits an obstacle" in getting international sanctions, ignores the point that international sanctions were UNANIMOUSLY passed against North Korea in the Security Council.

odd reason? no one wants their neighbouring country arming up again, especially if it had a militaristic past. How would you feel if germany started a nuclear weapons program and heavy rearmament.

I was just saying that not wanting NK to have nukes should be reason enough to oppose it. I do understand a little I suppose since many Asians and their societies were scarred by Imperial Japan.
Regarding Germany.... I would be thrilled! Becuase their first target would probably be France
JK of course.

The Japanese want to use the excuse of a nuclear North Korea to begin arming themselves with nukes. It's pretty obvious really.

Like I said earlier it is the USA and Japan alone that are having problem with North Korea cranking out Nukes. The rest of the world don't give a damn about N. Korea having Nukes.

Since Uncle SAM is the one who opposes N. Korea from having Nuke, USA should deal with N. Korea one-on-one but yet the White House refuses to deal with N. Korea alone. Why is the USA dragging the whole world to deal with N. Korea when USA is the one having problem with N. Korea cranking out Nukes ?

As if Europe, Canada, Russia , China, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Central Asia etc etc care whether N. Korea has or doesn't have nukes.

Riiiight....





Maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-07...tent_641770.htm




Well if they all don't care, then why did they vote in favor of sanctions and not abstain? Obviously, they do care. No one is holding a gun to their head at the UN.

If you don't understand why the US chooses a multialateral approach here, then you really don't understand the situation.

isn't this type of protest very normal occurances on South Korean streets every other days from the begining of time?

Yeah, SKs do seem to love a good "demo"


People don't want to understand why we're using a multilateral approach. When we go "unilateral" (which means the UK, Aus, Japan etc don't count I guess) they say "you jerks! be more multilateral! ". When we use the "multilateral" approach they say "you jerks! why don't you be more unilateral?! " i.e. deal with the NKs one on one.
It'd be really funny if it wasn't so frustrating.

Defector hits out at sunshine policy
Published: Wednesday, 18 October, 2006, 09:57 AM Doha Time
SEOUL: A top defector from North Korea has denounced the “sunshine” engagement policy of former South Korean president Kim Dae-Jung for helping the communist country develop nuclear weapons.
In the latest edition of his book first published in 1999, Hwang Jang-Yop said he had been certain that North Korea would collapse within five years when he defected to South Korea in 1997, Yonhap news agency reported yesterday.
“But history went in the opposite direction from my belief,” said Hwang, the highest-level North Korean official to defect.
Hwang, the architect of the North’s “juche” policy of self-reliance, said Kim Dae-Jung’s engagement policy helped the communist country stave off economic collapse.
Kim Dae-Jung, who won the Nobel Peace Prize after his watershed summit with North Korean leader Kim Il-Sung in 2000, tricked South Koreans into believing that economic assistance would change the communist country, Hwang charged.
He claimed Kim Dae-Jung had misled the South Korean people “to hand over an enormous amount of foreign currency to Kim Jong-Il”.
Some people at home and abroad now believe the money sent by South Korea “helped strengthen Kim Jong-Il’s nuclear arms and place the people of South Korea under greater military threats”, Hwang said in the book.
South Korean business group Hyundai transferred $450mn to the North before the summit, sparking allegations that Kim Dae-Jung’s government effectively bribed the communist state to agree to the meeting.
Hyundai maintained the transfer was payment for its exclusive rights to inter-Korean economic projects including the development of the North’s scenic Mount Kumgang.
Hwang, a former secretary of the ruling Workers Party of Korea, defected during a visit to China. He lives in the South under police guard.
Seoul came out in strong support of the UN Security Council’s vote Saturday to impose sanctions on the communist North after it tested a nuclear weapon on October 9 for the first time.
But many here see the test as proof that the “sunshine policy” continued by Kim’s succcessor Roh Moo-Hyun has failed, and complain that millions in aid money was instead used to develop an atomic weapon now threatening the South.–-AFP

^

very interesting, this changes my view on the sunshine policy

Mua he didn't say anything I didn't...
He did go more in depth than I did with Mt Kumgang but I did mention tourism to the North a few times.
*begin pulling my hair out*

actually i wouldnt mind south korea having nukes , as long as japan doesn't get them.

i would rather have south korea and japan have nukes since prc and dprk both have them. so what if japan had a militaristic past? south korea was against china and north korea during the korean and the vietnam war it doesnt make any difference.

"Balance of power" when maintained or dictated by a single party is inherently unstable. Equilibrium always restores itself for the better or worse. If the natural response of S. Korea and Japan's is to develop their own nukes, they will. A MAD scenario in NE Asia may even potentially bring back a sense of sanity to the region. Sometimes you have to face the abyss to step back from it. But you could also go off the cliff... That is also an equilibrium.

lol you did? prove it!

btw south korea and japan both said that they wont go nuclear because of this crisis

Certainly Mua,
Him: “denounced the ”sunshine” engagement policy of former South Korean president Kim Dae-Jung for helping the communist country develop nuclear weapons”
Him: “said Kim Dae-Jung’s engagement policy helped the communist country stave off economic collapse.”
Him: “the money sent by South Korea “helped strengthen Kim Jong-Il’s nuclear arms and place the people of South Korea under greater military threats””
Him: " Kim Dae-Jung had misled the South Korean people “to hand over an enormous amount of foreign currency to Kim Jong-Il”."

Me: “Regimes don't collapse because you give them a bunch of presents. They continue because you give them presents.” and “If you imposed harsh sanctions on NK (that means stopping that tourism nonsense too) maybe one of his generals would oust him… that’s the only way I see of … dislodging that … regime and uniting the Koreas.” and “Sunshine Policy is the exact opposite. It stabilizes the regime and allows Kim to stay in control.” and “Don’t they realize that without the aid … S. Korea sent the North wouldn’t have been able to build the device?” and “Billions of $ were poured into their country by SK… and SK began those silly joint Korean ventures. What did they give back? Family reunions? Is that all??? Oh wait... I seem to recall some other things they gave us... oh yes I remember now: missle tests, nuclear tests and threats.” and “Without the aid sent by SK… NK wouldn't have had the resources to make the bomb.” and my favorite: “Kim Dae-jung is totally responsible for all of this. He should be arrested and executed for aiding S Koreas real enemy, the North.”

Once again, does he sound “like an airpipe; very stupid.”? I know you didn’t say that but it’s the gist of what most people were saying about my posts whilst defending the satanic Sunshine Policy.

For easy reference here are a couple of times I mentioned the projects I found. I'm pretty sure I mentioned it more but I’m not going to read 9 pages of posts to find it for you:
“(that means stopping that tourism nonsense too)” and “SK began those silly joint Korean ventures”. I was already aware of that bs Hyundai pulled btw, but apparently you weren’t. SK does things like that all the time to appease the North. For example, asking us not to mention the nuke umbrella (in 2005) in order to avoid upsetting the North.

Japan’s not going to pursue nuclear weapons. There’s really no need with our nuclear umbrella in place. Everyone who’s convinced that Japan’s orchestrating (or whatever) all of this in order to get nukes and proceed to blow up SK, NK and China should just chill out.

you don't ask for nukes, you just make them w/o telling anyone.

yep except south korea and japan has really close relations with america so its not as easy.

Imagine if only all the money spent on inter-Korean projects went to help all the small business and the people struggling to eck out a living in S. Korea than to funding the NK government.

You can be close, and still get nukes. Look at Israel and Pakistan. The real question is how close or how useful are you to America.

it doesnt matter if south korea and japan are under the american nuclear umbrella, because americans wouldnt wanto risk war with another country because one of its allies gets attacked, thats why japan and skorea have a reason to go nuclear. But as I said they wont since they want to maintain their world prestige.

korea and japan can make nuclear bomb,so many ,if they wanna as soon as quickly within 6-12 months