Is now over 2700.

Over 27 hundred in the Iraq Campaign.

And to think that now they are wanting to deal with N.Korea?

Waiting to deal with N. Korea? Right... I don't think anybody feels like fu-king with that at the moment.

Don't count out Iran!

We should go handle them Koreans. That might make China get nervous though...

Just wait until it hits 5,000 dead, or 7,500.

I wonder if middle-America will still be cheering for MORE WARS!!!

probably

i think of all people that are anticipating that attack, only the Americans and the N. Koreans aren't asking for it. other people on the other hand it seems...

50,000 US soldiers died during the Korea war (Korea did not have nukes back then)

More than 50,000 US troops will did if they try to invade N. Korea (Now N. Korea has Nukes).

N Korea doesnt want a war..they just want an economic ticket out of the toilet they currently live in.

Having nukes is one thing--- knowing how to use them is another.

yea.. north Korea dont wants a war.. but north korean goverment do it..

if a goverment dont wants a war, then it do demilitarize himself, make new relationships, do talking about new peace and new friendships and not build new bombs and racets.

Isn't the American military overstretch? What about George Bush's term in office?

You're probably right...

Breaking news just on CNN. American troops have just lost an entire city in Iraq to the insurgents.

The city is called Amarah or something. About 800 to 1000 insurgents marched into the city after the "Allied" troops had pulled out after fighting since Thursday. The insurgent militia blew up and flattened three police stations that had just been built by Americans. And then it's over.

I'm sure the US will start bombing with planes -- but the fact remains that the US actually lost an entire city to the insurgents.

This is the beginning of the end of the Iraq War.

I wonder if this is the "October Surprise".

Ah, yes.

American success in Iraq, once again...

Not only that. The Shia has done their own show of force.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1927685,00.html

Shia fighters seize Iraqi city

· Mahdi Army storm Amara
· At least 15 dead, dozens wounded
· British troops on standby

Michael Howard in Sulaimaniya and Guardian Unlimited staff
Friday October 20, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

A Mahdi army fighter in Amara
A gunman stands on a street corner as a building burns in Amara. Photograph: AP


The Shia militia led by the anti-American cleric Moqtada al-Sadr today seized control of the southern city of Amara in one of the boldest acts of defiance yet by the country's powerful unofficial armies.

Mahdi Army fighters stormed three main police stations during the morning, planting explosives that flattened the buildings, witnesses and residents said.

About 800 black-clad militiamen with Kalashnikov rifles and rocket-propelled grenades patrolled city streets in commandeered police vehicles, while other fighters set up roadblocks on routes into the city and sound trucks circulated telling residents to stay indoors.

At least 15 people, including five militiamen, one policeman and two bystanders, were killed as Shia militias clashed with local police and Iraqi security forces. The fighting wounded at least 59 people - 31 militiamen, six policemen and 22 civilians, including three children - said Riyadh Saed, the duty physician at the city's main hospital.

The attack came as the US president, George Bush, admitted the situation in Iraq was tough, adding that he would consult with US generals to see if a change in tactics was necessary to combat the escalating violence.

So far this month, 74 US troops have died in Iraq, making it likely to become the deadliest month for American forces in nearly two years.

"One of the reasons you're seeing more casualties is the enemy is active and so are our troops, along with Iraqis," Mr Bush said.

He said he planned to have talks in the next few days with General John Abizaid, the top US commander in the Middle East, and General George Casey, who leads the US forces in Iraq.

"We are constantly adjusting our tactics so we can achieve the objectives and right now, it's tough," Mr Bush said. "It's tough on the families who've lost a loved one. It's tough for our citizens who look at it on TV. It's hard on the Iraqis. They've lost a lot of life."

But he declined to say whether he thought a change in tactics was necessary.

In response to the assault on Amara, the Iraqi government dispatched 230 troops from Basra.

British military sources in Iraq denied the city had been overrun but described the situation as "serious".

About 500 British troops backed up by attack helicopters were reported to be on standby. "We are ready to act if the Iraqi government so requests," said an army spokesman.

The militiamen later withdrew from their positions and lifted their siege of police headquarters under a temporary truce negotiated between envoys for the government and al-Sadr. It was not clear by the afternoon whether the security forces had reasserted control over the city.

A defence ministry spokesman said authorities had imposed a curfew in Amara until further notice.

"All the parties have started a truce as two army companies were dispatched from Basra," Mohammad al-Alaskari said. "But the situation is still tense."

Amara, which has a population of 750,000, was returned to Iraqi military control by Britain in August.

Amara resident Hossam Hussein said he saw hundreds of gunmen dressed in the Mahdi Army's trademark black uniforms swarming the city's main streets, warning residents to stay inside.

"For the last few days you could smell the trouble building here," he said by phone. "Amara is a battleground between the gangs, the terrorists, the militia and the politicians. And sometimes you don't know who is who."

Falah Hassan Shanshal, a spokesman for the Sadrist trend in the Iraqi parliament, denied the Mahdi Army was behind the mayhem.

"It was a natural uprising from the citizens at the huge mistakes made by the city's police," he said.

Tensions had been rising since five men, including the brother of a local Mahdi leader, were allegedly abducted - some say arrested - by police on suspicion of involvement in the killing of a senior police intelligence officer Qassim al-Tamimi, who was also a member of the rival Badr brigade. The officer's family blamed the Mahdi Army militiamen for the killing.

The often violent rivalry between the Mahdi and Badr militias in southern Iraq is an increasing headache for the beleaguered government of Nuri al-Maliki. Both groups are linked to parties inside the prime minister's ruling Shia alliance.

Amara, a major population centre in the resource-rich yet impoverished south, has been the home of Shia defiance to successive Iraqi regimes. Its famed marshlands were drained by the former dictator Saddam Hussein during the 1990s in reprisal for the city's role in the Shia uprising that blazed through the region after the 1991 Gulf war.

The city lies along the Tigris river, just 30 miles (50km) from the border with Iran whose Shia-controlled government is accused of backing Iraqi militia groups suspected of involvement in sectarian killings now wracking the country.


----------------------------------------------

Al Qaeda link insurgents have a parade.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq

Iraqi insurgents stage defiant parades
AP - 1 hour, 59 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Al-Qaida-linked gunmen staged military-like parades Friday in a string of towns west of Baghdad, underlining the growing confidence of Sunni insurgents in a part of Iraq where U.S. and Iraqi forces maintain a heavy counterinsurgency presence. Like the audacious show of force by up to 60 insurgents in the city of Ramadi on Wednesday, the latest parades -- including two less than a mile from U.S. military bases -- were staged in support of an announcement this week by a militant Sunni Arab group that it had created an Islamic state in six of Iraq's 18 provinces, including the capital, Baghdad.

ahh. muqtada again i see. i guess he wants another showdown like in Najaf. we seriously should have taken his fat @$$ a long time ago.

i'd have to agree all these months he just used to refuel and lick the embarassment. smart move.

I thought they dealt with him last time? I just cant believe he's still around.

Nah.

I think his boys are better trained this time around.

Maybe better armed, to.

It has been two years, and Iran is just next door!





I know what you mean.

I still can't believe the U.S is still in Iraq!

Much love to all the proud Asian American soldiers in Iraq, and RIP to those whom have fallen. Hundreds of Asian Americans have been killed in Iraq since the war started.

agreed.



they protect our land & our ppl. i just wish the news would cover the endless body bags & coffins of dead american soldiers. its weird but i DO support the troops but i dont support the war. i know it doesnt make sense.

Poor men. This is why it surprises me that some americans are still defending this pointless, evil war.

Why?

What makes Asian American deaths, so special?

Oh, and hundreds of Asian Americans have NOT been killed in Iraq.

It is more like 31, as of 09/23/06.

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/ETHNICITY.aspx

Look for yourself.

Asian Americans make up little more than 1% of total reported U.S military deaths in Iraq.

CHEERS!

So? you think insurgents are killing U.S soldiers based on "race"?

They kill whenever they get the chance to kill.

Much love to all the proud Asian American soldiers in Iraq, and RIP to those whom have fallen. 10's of Asian Americans have been killed in Iraq since the war started.

Doesn't matter whose dyin. It's wrong. Americans are dyin over there for Bush's @$$. All his reasons are the most galling bull$hit. Now he wants to talk about changing tactics but he doesn't wanna change em too much now. fu-king idiot. It's just stay-the-course-while-appearing-to-be-doing-something-productive-before-the-elections. He's a horse's @$$ motherfu-ker. So are the American people reelecting his worthless @$$.

We've completely ruined the Iraqi standard of living, totally disrupted their lives. We've ruined their govt, their media, their infrastructure, their security. In a country with the 2nd largest known oilfields, Iraqi motorists spend hours in line waiting to fill their tanks. We've brought them a most brutal, violent civil war that is getting worse. When it's all over, we will have handed their country over to Islamic radicals who will imprison or kill men without beards and brutalize and shut away women from any meaningful existence.

And the American death toll is around 2800 now. And rising. Forget about fu-king democracy. I'll settle for someone telling us how we can get out of there without further destabilizing the Middle East. Man, Bush needs to be impeached. Him, Cheney and Rumsfeld all must be impeached and L. Paul Bremer and Paul Wolfowitz need to be arrested and tried foisting off this fraud and tragedy not only on America but the entire world.

I agree, 100% with your post.

It could not have been said better.

Maybe becuase this is an Asian website you stupid bietch and we like to discuss the accomplishments we as a people have contributed to America . WTF is your problem? I have 2 cousins proudly serving in Iraq over this war and I pray they stay safe. They have also done tours in Afghanistan as well. And there many thousands of proud Asian Americans whom are proudly serving their country in the armed forces. This is also our country, and we also helped build this country for the ground up.

Like I said before.

Much love to all the proud Asian American Soldiers fighting in the Middle East and Central Asia and RIP to those whom have fallen. American Americans have made damn great accomplishments to America and the American military. This is an Asian website and Ill be damned if we cant discuss the accomplishments we as a people have given to this country.

This is the "others" forum, last I checked. In the "others" forum, non "Asian" things are discussed.

Get a clue.

Oh, and I was in the Army myself. The fact that your "cousins" were in the Army, has no reflection on you what-so-ever.

Don't hide behind other people's achivements.




People are people, regardless of how one labels them.

Maybe someday you will finally grow-up, and realize this simple fact of life.

Who cares, lets talk about this

655,000 dead
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?...=92191&st=0

^
And how many Lives have been destroyed by the dirty commies, above ?...............a few millions ?

<Back on Topic>
If we pulled out now, a very Bad Civil War would have ensued !
There is not an easy way out !

Why do people keep talking in future tense about the Iraq civil war. You need to start using present tense because the very bad civil war is already here. Well over a thousand Iraqis die each month from violence. Hundreds of thousands are fleeing anywhere they think they will be safe. All the well-heeled Iraqis have already fled the country. The killings of Americans is getting worse and is now as high as it ever was and will undoubtedly go higher. The national unity govt is totally ineffectual and allied to the militias and death squads roaming freely and openly throughout Baghdad, Tikrit, Mosul, Amara, etc. They are already in a civil war. Time to wake up.



No argument from me.

Yes, let's. Who in their right mind can believe the U.S. is liberating these people when we have killed so many of them, imprisoned so many of them, tortured so many of them?

Nobody believes it anymore except the republican assholes of America. These are people who should be run out of the country. These are the people who have betrayed American values of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for some idiotic Christian theocracy that only someone bordering on retarded could possibly believe. These are the real traitors of America. These are the people who need to be rounded up and imprisoned and tortured just for being a bunch of stupid fu-ks and just plain butt-fu-king-ugly on top of it.

These are the mass murderers of innocent Arab and Muslim peoples throughout Asia Minor.

History should regard them no differently than we regard the Nazis or the Japanese of WW2 today. George Bush should go down in history as a dictator on the same level as Hitler and Saddam. George Bush should be remembered as a mass murderer who butchered hundreds of thousands because that it exactly what he is and what he's done.

Supporting George Bush is supporting a mass murdering dictator and that makes the supporter just as guilty and s/he too should be remembered in the same light.

The war could have been excecuted better. The intelligent and information should have been better. Nevertheless, it has already started, so stop b!tching about how evil the war is. We cannot simply send the troops home at the moment because it would cause much chaos. Let them finish what they have started, because that's the best option for this moment even though bad decisions had been made in the past.

I hate people who just complain too much without looking at reality. That's not only illogical, but you are unamerican. And if you are not american, chances are you'll be against the war simply to go against America. Be productive for once, either shut up or support the troops.

unamerican to stand up and say what you believe in? Nobody here is an expert but we do know that things are looking good in Iraq. We stay we are fu-ked, we leave we are fu-ked. But if we leave, at least there won't be anymore dead soldiers.

It should never have been started.



It was better. Bush simply chose to ignore it. Doesn't matter how good it is if $hit-for-brains won't bother to look at it.



What kind of flea-cum drivel is this? Right, let's not complain about a war we're losing that was waged on lies and planned out extremely badly. Let's just stay silent like so many of you dumb fu-king g@@ks who can't get it through your thick skulls that your continued silence is not only criminal, it is turning you into the laughingstock of the Western fu-king world!



It was sending the troops there that caused the chaos.



Sorry, out of time! Your white lord and master told us 3 fu-king years that the mission was accomplished. So I think telling us to give it more time is not a very good idea. We're Americans. We want results and we want em NOW!



That's called staying the course and we been there and done that and we can clearly see now that it has lost us this war. Do you get it? We've LOST the war. Not just in Iraq but in Afghanistan also. We've lost.



I hate motherfu-kers who look reality in the face and refuse to acknowledge it.



I spent 6 years in the United States military including the Middle East where I saw guys die. So unless you've done at least as much don't preach to me about who is unAmerican. America is supposed to stand for being allowed to speak your mind without fear of reprisal and if you haven't figured that much out then allow me to tell you what every white person says about you when you're back is turned--go back g@@kland!



Go fu-k yourself, boy.

^ a mere baseless argument and complain about the past. what's done is done, look into the future. When you grow up, you might understand what i am saying. Whar plans do you gave, mr. 5-star-general? just like the rest of them, you have no idea. what? send the troop home? dumbest idea atm.



unamerican because people just complain for the sake of complaining. You make it sounds as if "we are fu-ked" in the same way if we stay or leave. It's completely different. the police forces and government aren't ready to take control by themselves, and things will be much into chaos far worse than it is now. what do people expect the goverment to do? just pack and leave? it's easy to bail out when things don't go their way....How about clean up the their mess and finish what they started.

What are you even talking about??



When you wise up, you'll know better than to say it.



Yes, send the troops home. The war is lost. We can't even appease the insurgents and cut them in on the deal because that won't have any effect on the sectarian violence. That violence is killing Americans who have no hope of stopping. Bring em home.



Really? And tell us how you became an expert on the complaining habits of the American people.

And if you're so gung-ho, why don't you volunteer to fight over there?



DUH!



If it were, it would LOOK different.



They will NEVER be ready!! Vietpunk, try to understand this: the police and govt will NOT stop the militias or death squads because they are allied with them. They need them as leverage. No one is going to disband without knowing the rest would and that's not going to happen. There's no way the police are going to kill militiamen they feel some sort of alliance to. That's why Amara was taken over by Sadr's militia so easily. That is what will ALWAYS happen unless you keep Americans there and we cannot stay. At some point, we have to go and the takeover will still happen. Our mission is doomed. The war is over. Let's just go home.



Frankly yes because they will have to sooner or later. So I say sooner.



And sometimes it's the only thing you can do.



Maybe you should ask that of Bush.

wow. of everything you said, nothing was contructive but a lot of blabla. you didn't even make a clean arguement. your point is "damn we lost, let's just leave this messs so even MORE people will die."

when asked what to do you simply said "Maybe you should ask that of Bush." ok....... that's not even an argument on you side since you hate Bush so much and think you know better than him.

Less people will die because the insurgents won't have any reason to stick around with us gone. That's less civilians and less Americans being killed. As for the sectarian violence, we're not stopping that anyway. That is going to continue until one party emerges victorious. In this case, it will probably be an alliance of militias that seize control and set what will amount to an Iraqi Hezbollah (whom the Shiites of Iraq--the people we're trying to put into power--support wholeheartedly).



Bush declared mission accomplished over three years ago so you definitely need to ask him what's the hold-up. He wanted Hussein gone. Okay, Hussein's gone. Mission accomplished. Time to leave.

That really was the mission. There was no post-invasion planning. Rumsfeld was in charge of that part and, bizarrely enough, had no interest in post-invasion planning and threatened to fire any general that dared bring the matter up in his presence. So how could we possibly have any strategy in mind when we're fighting a phase of a war that the man in charge has no interest in??

Now look what happening: Bush is meeting behind closed doors with the generals that Rumsfeld threatened to fire in order to FINALLY start talking about post-invasion planning. And guess who wasn't invited to sit in. Yes, Rumsfeld. So even as Bush is insisting there won't be any big changes to his policy there already is one. Rummy the Dummy is a goner. Not fired outright but he's out the of the picture and so is Cheney apparently. Bush can no longer afford to be seen by the public as taking the counsel of these jerks because in the public's eye, they have failed us. Now Bush has to look like this hands-on guy trying to get a handle on the war himself instead of relying on incompetent advisors. The trouble is, the public won't buy it because they've seen him as a well-meaning buffoon--a guy with good intentions but lost without his advisors to put it together for him.

The war is over. It's time to admit defeat and come home before one more soldier dies. The public can take it out of his hide in November and I think that's what's going to happen.

there are always complications in a war. the point of it now is neutralization and training the citizens to control the country, which takes time. everything in theses years, even though it could be a mistake, would be a total lost and waste if all the troops left. the country would be in turmoil and many deaths would result. then what happens to the country afterward? another dictatorship? more persecutions? then nothing is accomplish. plus, the people at the top would be too proud of themselves to admit defend, in any case.

The citizens are already taking control. that's what the militias are.



It already is a total loss and waste. $6 billion a month for some 3 1/2 years and where are we?



Iraq IS in turmoil and many people ARE dying. What happens after we leave? A new regime rises up and takes over. Will it be oppressive? In all likelihood. Did we accomplish anything? No. We tried to throw our weight around like some bully in the sandbox and got our @$$ beat by the 50-lb weakling. It cannot be salvaged. We had a chance to salvage it but Bush was too chicken$hit to start the draft and even if they started it now, it wouldn't help. A draft could fight an insurgency but is perfectly useless against the sectarian violence. The US had to take strict control right after the invasion and we failed to do so and now it is out of hand and beyond saving. We must admit we've done all we can do, we must apologize and grovel to the entire world for our meddling arrogance, we must admit Bush is an incompetent, stupid, war-mongering fu-k up who is going to be impeached, and we must pack up and go home. All I can hope for is that the stupid American people who supported all this idiocy have learned something--but I doubt it.

^
There is more to the situation in Iraq.

If there is going to be a pullout, it will be after 2008.

The Kurdish Homeland Movement can be used to Solve a Major Problem in that Region.

Iraq is Full of Oil~ Iraq is very Rich $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

This Administration will not give up on Iraq............................................................................
....

Stop Crying Like a Wimp !

God Bless America.

It doesn't matter when it is. It is inevitable that we must pullout.



If that were true they would have used it by now.



So what?



The administration is just waiting for 2008 after it can dump the mess in someone else'd lap.



The wimp is the one who can't admit defeat. When you can't cut it, you just admit you can't cut it and you go back tot eh drawing board to look at what you did wrong and how not to do it again. Since this administration can't admit to wrongdoing, that will never happen. We'll stay firmly mired in this mess long after we should have pulled out.



Doesn't seem very likely, does it?

My bet is still on the Kurdish Movement.

We are about to witness the Birth of a Nation.

More like three nations.

It may distablize the region even more. Turkey for one already has a Kurdish insuregency guerilla movement. (Iran and Syria already has a Kurdish population). Turkey wont be too happy with the implications of a Kurdistan.

A seperate Shiia region in Iraq is likel to to move torwards a pro Iranian region.

Other groups may also want seperation if they see the Kurds seperate like the Shia in Lebabnon etc etc. (a whole lot of other religious/ethnic groups in the middle east)

I would think at this point that anything we do is going to have adverse consequences. That's what happens when we allow a situation to deteriorate as the ones in both Iraq and Afghanistan have.

haha. mean you give the guy an ak and he's a sniper. i love it though when bullets start flying and one of their homies flop down after five six mil round pass through their heads, and it's different ball game. all the God is Great juice is gone.

just like Zarqawi was a mastermind...the guy literally paid lower thugs to deliver him his prisoners. and of course didn't know how to clear a weapon. but i guess this is Iraq. i mean if you go to iraq raise a cell you become a candidate for sainthood and seven vestial virgins...when in other places you're a criminal.

i guess if shiite on shiite violence is the game plan, we'd call Muqtada's force better train cuz they'd been running around with gun trucks in east baghdad.

i love it when people romanticize as if it's all for freedom and equality...it's for tribal/personal power. haha. Now I see why Sunnis are pissed.