Who cares! Vietnam should do what is best for the people. Vietnam still has a long way to go but Democracy all the way baby!



Hồ Cẩm Đào lo Việt Nam đi quá xa?

I'll follow the Party regardless of the path the Party chooses.

What if the People choose a different path?
You would choose Party over the People?

Are you going to say "Who cares?" when the PRC is going to put incredible pressure on us and interfere in our internal affairs to make sure that they don't have a democratic state on their borders? And "Who cares?" is not an answer when they send a huge army over the border. First, let's make sure that our relations with teh US are close enough, so that it won't happen.

Since when did Vietnam ever listen to China?

Oh, only since Imperial China became the world's greatest power: we may or may not have chosen to fight, but we have always listened to her threats carefully and treated them seriously. It's that or lose ourselves a couple of hundred thousand good people for the privilege of throwing an invading Chinese Imperial army out.

"who cares" as in Vietnam does not need to be like China. We can be more democratic than China. There are even Chinese leaders praising Vietnam for open up politically and want China to imitate Vietnam. Of course we do care!!!! Vietnam does not want to be North Korea where China uses them as a buffer zone. They always want Vietnam to follow them. Its ok to be politically different and live in peace. Can we? Mongolia is democratic and they are doing much better than being a communist state.

How would Vietnam becoming a democracy worry Beijing? The Chinese people are already pleased with its government for tis vast economic and technological growth. Vietnam becoming a democracy is its own decision. China won't interfere.

China doesn't care about Vietnam politics. They know that Vietnam will never be a dog to the Americans. So everything is all good.

The whole topic doesn't make any sense to me, weird.................why chinese people should worry about Vietnam, Vietnam is neither a threat nor a potential threat to us, who cares if Vietnam goes Democratic or not. It's VIETNAM'S internal affair.

What if Democracy does happen in Vietnam and spread northward?

China is surrounded by democracies. I doubt it would spread anything.

The PRC is surrounded by exactly two democracies: India and Mongolia - in the sense that she shares a common border with them, that is. However, the Himalayas create a formidable geographical border line/barrier between the PRC and India - a border line, which is acts as a geographical barrier and interrupted by a mere handful of passes. I am concerned that the PRC leadership is extremely aggressive in suppressing whatever forms of dissent there are, and that she maintains a close relationship with such states as DPRK, Myammar and Sudan. A different set of behavior would definitely lessen my sense of uneasiness.

physical border does little these days. Chinese are more connected to the United States, Japan, and Taiwan than it is with mongolia or india. China doesn't care about the internal affairs of other countries unless it poses a threat. If vietnam goes democratic, great. I doubt they would allow a U.S base in its country or follow U.S doctrine like Japan. No offense but this whole debate is kinda funny. Vietnam is far from becoming a democracy anyways lol

believe it or not, most of the people who support communism are ignorant. Those are people who lack skills and cannot compete with anyone.
The fu-king Chinese of course want to keep Vietnamese as low as possible by forcing them to be ruled under the communists. You can easily see that the Chinese helped the Vietnamese communists win the civil war and forced them to go through land reforms to destroy their economics after that. They want that because they want to keep neighbouring countries under their control forever. They themself are much smarter. Their gov't quickly turned to democracy after their civil war. If Vietnam is going democratic, naturally China worries. Would you want to sit in a class where there are a lot of smart people? Your grade will be hurt if you would.

don't blame your own misgivings on chinese. As you can you see, the prc has changed dramatically in 30 years. Not all communists are ignorant. They are becoming more and more pragmatic about their country. Take for instance Deng xiao peng. Those who are ignorant are the ones who whore the term democracy, not understanding what it really is.

China is doing great with economic reforms and Vietnam is doing the same except Vietnam is also started to play with political reforms as evidenced at the last Party X Conference Meeting. VCP asked the people to give suggestions before the Conference and many intellectuals did. In turn, Chinese intellectuals praised of this political reform but the Chinese president think otherwise. That is why he says "Vietnam economic reforms are correct but its political reforms are wrong" according to an unnamed Chinese newspaper editor.

my opinion here: since both countries share the same border and on the same continent, whatever happen to one will affect another. Militarily, Vietnam is not a threat to China. but if Vietnam does more political reforms we might see more political dissidents in China.

not really. Take the collapse of the Soviet Union with a visit from Gorbachev. The PRC still survived after Tianamen. Funny thing is Russia's democracy as become an illiberal one.

If there is a reform and it works, then the people in China might want to have the reform like viet nam. They would think ... if it works for viet nam, then it should work for China. This is what I don't think the Chinese Government want to see.

That's why I said that the PRC shares a common border with two democracies, not three

india and mongolia aren't really good examples either lol

that's what basically what the article said. China only fears of dissendents who look up Vietnam's internal poltical change. IT's quite different from Russia because Vietnam has the same economy system as China.. albeit a bit later (10 years behind)

You can't base it on economic and political similarities. Democracy in a nation of 1.3 billion people where the wealth gap is huge hurts the prospect of a healthy democracy.

i didn't say that it's necessarily a good thing

There are always dissenters and I don't think a democratic vietnam will have any affect on China.

Vietnam's turn toward democracy is no where close to being reached. a democratic Vietnam will have no effect on China, but will be in favor of the US; which in turns might turn against China's will.

Who says Viet Nam will be in favor of the US?

What's up AF?

does the US supposedly stand for democracy? so if its former enemy turns demoratic, and it is in the interest of the US to support Vietnam in these matters, wont they?

I don't see russia and usa as buddy buddy lol

You mean, the way the US supported East Germany in '53, Hungary in '56 and Czechoslovakia in '68? That's what I am worried about: being sold down the river.

well, China won't worry about Vietnam turning democracy if China sees Vietnam as a potiential competitor. Turning Democracy right now for vietnam will simply bring a disaster, and take Vietnam into economic backward, slow in infrastructure developments. Vietnam will be a third world country a hell long of time then.

I totally agree with your statement below. If viet nam wants democracy, it cannot happen now. Otherwise, we will face what you listed below. That was one of the reason why India (a democracy country) cannot beat China. India has to allocate most of its resources to increase the standard of living for its citizens, which leave little for capital ( infrastructure ). The current system in China allows the government to invest heavily in infrastructure (capital goods). For the long run, if China wants to sustain what they have, China cannot use the current system.

Overall, current system in China -> good for shortrun, but not for long run.

Yup, exactly. It's just simply like we are driving a car. It runs fast in gear 1, when it reach its maximum RMP, you have to shift it to gear 2. China must let its government changes in nearly future. But I don't think China should go democracy in one or two decades, coz China's GPD per capita is still very low, comparing to most the countries in the world. For Vietnam, it's still in the beginning of its gear 1, if you force it to shift to gear 5, it will accelerate, in a extremely low speed.

Vietnam will fail as a democracy because you need to have a developed economy to become a successful democratic state. Look at Russia. It's "democratic" but the economy is going nowhere.

Honestly, Chinese people do not care if vietnam goes that route. They'll just wait and see what happens in a decade, just like they did with Russia than make the necessary reform.

What's up Nha Le.

Vietnam is far from being a democracy but people are pushing for it. Democracy wise, I don't even think its in first gear. But due to corruptions and power abuses, the communist party is quite nervous with the people frustations. Single party is to blame. The same can be said of China today. There are even opposition parties in the making with many risks,harassments, jailtime for many of the dissidents. This movement will grow both in Vietnam and overseas. Once, its in first gear, I don't think you can stop them. It got to start from somewhere and somehow.




My gawk, is that you????

It's a bit off topic, but this myth about Russia "going nowhere" because it became a democracy is getting out of hand. Would those of you who are spouting this offer some proof that Russia is now a hell hole economically, socially, or politically compared to the CCCP era?

I'll hang up and listen.

c...

don't care whether china cares about our politics or not

Vietnam doesn't care if China think Vietnam is going democratic or not.

Who fu-kin' care!

China don't mind Vietnam and Burma become democratic.

But China do not allow USA to implement anti-China activities via such countries!

Burma -> to penetrate Tibet? (all China know that)

Vietnam needs to be friendly to most countries. Be friendly to ASEAN (Vietnam is a member of ASEAN), USA, China, Japan/Korea/Taiwan, Europe, India/South Asia, etc.

Do not take side. Focus on growing the economy and improving the living standards of Vietnamese people.

I am only using the gear stuff as example. No matter Vietnam is in the first or second gear. It doesn't matter. what I mean is Vietnam is not ready for democracy. I am not trying to stop any democracy in any countries, and I know I am not able to . Everybody here is only talking, you know. No matter China and Vietnam, turning democracy right now only means economic backward. That's what we can see right now, china or vietnam turning democracy or not in the future, nobody knows. We both lack behind the western world for more than 100 years, we cant' use the same path they did to develope our countries. We need to find it out, and walk it thru by ourselves.
After all, China doens't worry about the vietnam is going democratic or not at all, it's Vietnam's internal affair, as long as you guys don't stand aside with USA and become anti-china. It's totally fine. Most of Chinese in the world doens't care what Vietnam does too. let's be friend and stop any stupid assumption.

Vietnamese aren't ready for democracy but they are in hunger for justice and social equity which are keys to a true and harmonious growth benefitting to everybody, not just to a spate of rotten officials and unscrupulous opportunists.

Then Vietnamese should decide what's the best for themselves. Wealth or more freedom, please keep that in mind, even thoughs you guys give up wealth, it doesn't mean you guys can get as much freedom as USA. Without wealth, just imagine how can you guys educated 10s of millions farmers to understand demorcary, and teach them to vote. How many stations you guys have to operate in order to complete one vote? How much your government needs to spend to advertise the spirit of democracy. No, Vietnamese still need to live in hunger for justice and social equity for a hell long of time. Face that, that's fact, just because Vietnam is not advanced enough. That's the painful part which every developing country has to go thru. No exception.

it is not chinese business

Lacking behind the world 100 yrs ? China ...
East Asia has Japan
South East Asia has Thailand
They had lost much of their Asian heritage by adopting a different path compared to China's ?
China had not worried much about VN in 1979 for sure .

That is correct, I remembered some Chinese scientists studied on how many years China lagged behind the west and come up with a figure of 100 and something years.

I dont know how they could calculate that.

I said, China lacks behind the western worlds for about 100 yrs somthing, don't CHANGE my words.
I only read those in magazine, the 100 years refer to Technology and economic, and living standard, if China get no help from outside and has to develope by its own. There is no way we can show who is superior by comparing two nations by their cultures. well, in reality, it's impossible, in current speed, China will have a equal economic with USA, but in Capita, China will never catch up with US, coz our world can't afford it.
I don't quite understand your post sometimes. "Lacking behind the world 100 yrs ? China ...
East Asia has Japan
South East Asia has Thailand
They had lost much of their Asian heritage by adopting a different path compared to China's ?"
what actually are you trying to say? Specially " they had lost much...........compared to China's ?"
so, are you asking me a question???????


yup, it's not our business, we don't give a $hit to it.

Vietnam should change to a Democratic government. Whether other countries have concern over this is no particular important to the Vietnamese. Vietnamese should focus on what the average Vietnamese need. Having a democracy society will help excelerate the developement for the country as a hole. It should be an issue that Vietnamese need to considered and act promptly to help advance their standing in the world.

The only reason why it is a particular concern to China if Vietnam ever become a Democratic country is that there will be fewer Communist states left in the world. And thus weakening China's one party power over it's own people and also the world as a Communist state.