http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...74-2703,00.html

I believe this has been going on for ages in NK, but this still doesn't change the fact that KJI is a faggot of all the east asians beside Tojo.

well it makes sense, doesn't it? most of the country is semi-starving so its a waste to feed the ones who are disabled. Save the food for people who can contribute to the country.

I'm not saying its the right thing to do but its the practical thing to do in NK's situation.

Kim Jong Ill is a prick.

He should die and let korean people go.

isn't that similar to what hitler proposed? get rid of those who are a holdback on the economy as a whole.

not really. Germany wasn't starving until the last year of the war. Before that, they were living fine but the nazis still got rid of birth defects. They had a specific agenda on their hands to create a superior Aryan race. I don't think Kim Jong Il wants to create a superior korean race. He's just being practical.

but he also orders forced abortions on half chinese babies. how is that not upholding a racist overtone?

oh $hit really? i didnt know that. what a bastard!! I can't believe I used to have respect for that bastard. He kills half-chinese babies but his entire country's economy depends on China? What the fu-k?!! That's it. Hu Jin Tao is a bastard too from now on.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...74-2703,00.html

I believe this has been going on for ages in NK, but this still doesn't change the fact that KJI is a faggot of all the east asians beside Tojo.

oh $hit really? i didnt know that. what a bastard!! I can't believe I used to have respect for that bastard. He kills half-chinese babies but his entire country's economy depends on China? What the fu-k?!! That's it. Hu Jin Tao is a bastard too from now on.

Blue I pointed this out two and a half days ago and you responded to that post without acknowledging the abortions part. Obviously, just like the article, you didn't read my post before responding to it.
"Oct 14 2006, 11:51 PM
............
QUOTE(bigboy @ Oct 15 2006, 12:44 AM)

What, Chinese people are doing that now?
Assuming you're not being sarcastic, yes the Chinese are doing that now. It happens to many NK women who escape to China. They are forced into being sex slaves for Chinese men or are forced to become prostitutes. I read the other day that NK defectors (including former prison guards) have reported that the NK women who are returned to NK from China and are pregnant by Chinese men are forced to have abortions or have their babies killed after birth. This was in a “reliable source” and I’ll try to find it again if you want proff I'm not talking out of my @$$."

You didn't believe me I guess

i did read that. Since those babies are the children of defectors, thats different from what I thought Toki meant. I thought the ethnic chinese minority in north korea was being killed off and any korean who marries an ethnic chinese and has a half-chinese half-korean baby was killed off.

i didnt know she meant the children of defectors. obviously, i still dont agree with killing the babies of north korean defectors but thats different from what is being discussed in this thread which is the notion that kim jong il is some kind of modern day hitler who wants to build a superior korean race.

i wonder what hu jintao thinks about that tidbit. a lot of the n.k woman who has escaped to china, married a chinese man or had a child with one and found out and sent back have forced abortions. forced abortions.. gosh. thats so disturbing.

do you think using the terms "f@g" or "faggot" make you look inteligent, or even convincing (if it wasnt for the article)?

What do you care? Get back to the topic.

kim jong il is a f@g. stop being so defensive

i care b/c your speech is really immature. shows how much of a youngin you are. trust me, i care about ppl on AF

By the way, it was on topic b/c i refuted your claim that kim jon il is a "faggot." and no he is not. maybe you dont really understand the real meaning, but it does not simply mean "stupid."

The term I used "f@g" didn't mean as stupid. By the way, KJI is a f@g. End of discussion.

Can you say "End of discussion" when you started they thread in the first place.

Assuming you're not being sarcastic, yes the Chinese are doing that now. It happens to many NK women who escape to China. They are forced into being sex slaves for Chinese men or are forced to become prostitutes. I read the other day that NK defectors (including former prison guards) have reported that the NK women who are returned to NK from China and are pregnant by Chinese men are forced to have abortions or have their babies killed after birth. This was in a “reliable source” and I’ll try to find it again if you want proff I'm not talking out of my @$$."

You didn't believe me I guess

i did read that. Since those babies are the children of defectors, thats different from what I thought Toki meant. I thought the ethnic chinese minority in north korea was being killed off and any korean who marries an ethnic chinese and has a half-chinese half-korean baby was killed off.

i didnt know she meant the children of defectors. obviously, i still dont agree with killing the babies of north korean defectors but thats different from what is being discussed in this thread which is the notion that kim jong il is some kind of modern day hitler who wants to build a superior korean race.

i think similiar thing goes on in china. the defects or babies abandoned by their parents are not killed but they're put into orphanges where conditions can vary from very good to very bad. in the very bad ones, the disabled are pretty much left to die young due ot neglect. a few lucky ones get adopted by american parents. because of this, i dont think hu jin tao has much grounds to accuse kim jong il of anything.

Can you say "End of discussion" when you started they thread in the first place.

or they marry the chinese men or north korean men there. or get kidnapped by both men. if a woman went to china and was brought back, and shes pregnant already, regardless of her actually carrying a half chinese child or a full korean one, nk govt. aren't going to take any chances and would still force abortions. i'm sure a lot of the aborted babies were full korean as well.
its both. half chinese children and children of defectors.

One such account came from a 30-year-old woman who calls herself Han Myong-suk. She escaped twice and reached a safe haven in an undisclosed third country within the past year thanks to Helping Hands Korea, an American Christian group.

She said she was sold by traffickers to a Chinese farmer near the Great Wall, and was five months pregnant by him when she was caught by the Chinese police and deported back to North Korea. There she was held in one of three female detention centres, which have been identified in the towns of Sinuju, Onsong and Chongin.

Her account was taken down by Tim Peters, an American Christian activist who founded the group.

"I defied the order to abort the fetus the prison authorities contemptuously called a 'Chinese chinese' and was badly beaten and kicked in my belly by a guard. His name was Hwang Myong-dong," she said.

One week later, said Ms Han, she was led to a prison clinic "where in a most blunt manner they extracted the dead child from my body".

Tim Peters
Helping Hands, Korea
(North Korea)
Is he telling the whole story?

Tim Peters is in the news again, speaking to the House Committee on International Relations, giving interviews about his work to aid North Korean refugees and the underground railroad, and, asking for your donations.

Peters appears as a soft-spoken evangelical Christian pastor from Benton Harbor, Michigan. Perhaps he is. In any case, we urge him to disassociate himself from controversial groups typically characterized as cults. Sex cults, to be precise.

Tim A. Peters has proudly associated himself with The Family International (TFI), which call themselves "an International Christian fellowship," presenting themselves as a loose-knit group of independent missionaries. A peek beneath the veneer will reveal that The Family—formerly known as The Children of God—is anything but. It is a high-control group, typically referred to as a "sex cult," with a history of running prostitution rings and trafficking children.

Does Tim Peters realize the incredible irony of running a "Freedom Railroad" while still tied to The Family—a group which is responsible for breaking up families; a group that has been documented in court for running its own internal gulags, where its teens were imprisoned for retraining and forced-labor, beaten and deprived of food for days?

Tim Peters, poster boy for freedom? Touting himself as a proponent for social justice and nonviolent resistance, Tim Peters is bringing awareness to political circles—a good thing. But we are obliged to ask this: Is Tim Peters merely/mainly chanelling resources and using existing South Korean government programs once the refugees have arrived; and taking credit as the Caucasian savior of Koreans who don't do much for themselves? One could get that impression from reading the FCF's pages.

According to a TIME magazine article, the operatives working inside China, South Korea and Laos are critical. Apparently the border between the Koreas is impossible to pass—the only smuggling of refugees that can take place is done by fishermen or other very clandestine operations. Could it be that the real heroes of the day—S. Korean relatives and indigenous Chinese Christians—do the real work, but for their own safety must remain in the dark and away from publicity?

While we believe in supporting bona fide charity organizations and do not want any genuine charity work to suffer*, we provide this information because the public has a right to know the facts, in order to make informed personal judgments about where to place their hard-earned money:

* Tim Peters is/was an admitted member of The Family, a notorious cult which ran prostitution rings and promoted & institutionalized child abuse.

* Tim Peters has solicited donations through the Family Care Foundation (FCF)—a front organization which was founded by members of that same cult.

* The FCF in turn proudly features Tim Peters on their own web pages.

* Helping Hands Korea was one of many front organizations created by The Family, under directives to masquerade as NGOs and win converts.

As a donor you have a right to full disclosure regarding Peters' financial obligations. If Tim Peters is a tithing member of The Family, anywhere between 10% to 14% of his yearly income will go to The Family's leadership. That money is then used for the promotion of controversial doctrines like mastur**ting to Jesus. That money will continue to support leaders who live in hiding to avoid criminal prosecution.

You decide the following—we urge you to find the answers for yourselves. If you are new to looking into this topic, we urge you to carefully scrutinize the answers you may get from Tim Peters, the FCF or The Family, as they believe in using deception as a matter of policy, and members of The Family have been found lying in court, under oath.

* Is Helping Hands Korea a pseudonym and front organization of The Family?
* Will you be supporting an abusive cult by giving to Tim Peters?
* Is Tim Peters' humanitarian/charity work tainted—is he recuriting for The Family?
* Has Tim Peters misrepresented himself in order to defraud the public?
* Does Tim Peters tithe to The Family (via the FCF or otherwise)?
* Can the FCF assure you that no portion of your donation to Tim Peters' ministry will end up in the hands of members of The Family?
* Can Tim Peters provide yearly income and expenditure reports that show how your donations are disbursed? (legitimate NGOs will provide this)
* Is Tim Peters really a proponent for social justice and nonviolent resistance? Or does he give stock PR answers to avoid culpability for funding/supporting The Family's harmful practices?

*For the record, Tim Peters is aware of this page—his daughter has been online discussing this, but to date Tim Peters refuses to retract his earlier statements that he was proud to be a member of The Family. For more information, see discussion on GenX board and our Open Letter to Tim Peters.
More about The Family

* The Family is the subject of liability suits
Many 2nd generation members currently seek justice, compensation and specific acknowledgment/apologies for crimes perpetrated by members of The Family. Yet The Family continues to avoid responsibility for reparations to its own offspring, while touting its good works to solicit your donations. (See movingon.org for more information)

* Documentation for crimes by The Family
Criminal child abuse, child neglect, kidnapping, plagiarism, charity fraud, document fraud, etc., can be found at xfamily.org. (Use the search terms: Child Abduction, Plagiarism, Abuse, Discipline, Pseudonyms, Secrecy, Loris May Yamaguchi)

* The Family's leadership live in hiding
Their sustained ability to get away with crime does not establish their innocence. Karen Zerby, Peter Kelly, and Sam Perfilio live in hiding under assumed names. Pseudonyms and secrecy have allowed The Family's leadership to avoid arrest and escape prosecution.

* The Family has not always been cleared of all charges in courts of law
Contrary to their PR statements, very few (if any) of the child abuse cases that were prosecuted against Family adults resulted in an acquittal or complete exoneration of the defendants. Most cases of child abuse were dismissed on legal technicalities or tried in absentia; several cases were settled out of court; there was never a full hearing of the evidence by an impartial jury. Although The Family claim they never lost a court case, however this is not true. The Children of God/Family has to date not paid up $1 million in damages granted to a plaintiff; member(s) was/were found guilty for contributing to the delinquency a minor/minors; in just one court-case alone, the judge investigated The Family and found them to be overtly responsible for promoting child/adult sex and lying in court. Major reforms were forced on the entire movement, in order to ensure the safety and basic human rights of its adherents and those born into the group.

or they marry the chinese men or north korean men there. or get kidnapped by both men. if a woman went to china and was brought back, and shes pregnant already, regardless of her actually carrying a half chinese child or a full korean one, nk govt. aren't going to take any chances and would still force abortions. i'm sure a lot of the aborted babies were full korean as well.

That sounds awful but I have a hard time believing it's true unless there's more evidence presented besides this article .

I think the credibility of the article is questionable cuz the author Micheal Sheridan seems to be biased against NK imo. This is not the first NK bashing story I read written by him. Also, this piece is published by SUnday Times of UK which I think is a tabloid paper. Why hasn't more reputable media like the NY Times picked up this sensational story yet??

kim jong is not a f@g, that guy isin't gay. but he is the richest man in the world, owning 40 billion dollars every year, and land that is 100,000 km.