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northwestern_student
QUOTE

Recently I have spent a lot of time on the Peking University campus hanging out with friends, reading cartoons, and playing football. I know, I'm such a slacker. This piece is about when I go and play football at the awful dirt ground next to Weiminghu.

When I get there I usually approach one of the groups of people that are already playing on the field and pretty much just step in on the field. Usually without saying anything or being told anything I just start playing in one of the teams. Sometimes someone points at one of the goals or maybe there will a short word exchange among the players on which team I should join. That is how it is done. Then we play like we are trying to ignore each other.

If I were in any other country I would never just walk into the field, since that would interrupt and disturb the game. This way would in any other place drive me nuts, since suddenly there would be a bunch of new guys on the field and you would have no idea who is playing with whom. A for me 'normal' approach would possible be to, at an appropriate moment, ask if one could join. I also imagine that in almost any other country your team-mates would say something like "Hi!", or nod at you when you join in. Back home I would even tell the team my name and they would usually say theirs and possible even shake hands. Not here. I am completely ignored, though they are VERY well aware that there is a FOREIGNER playing with them. At most there would be some nervous laughs ("He he! A foreigner!") behind my back. I would even guess that is would be such a big deal that some will talk about it with their friends afterwards.

It is perhaps worth to mention is that we are sometimes 30-40 people on a 7-man field and in my eyes that makes the game quite boring. Where I come from people coming to the game late would probably be asked to wait if there would be more than 20 more people on the field . They would understand and either wait or start up their own game. In my thinking it is better that 20 people play a fun game than 40 play a really boring and pointless pinball version of football. I understand that these guys are probably used to playing like. Perhaps in their viewpoint it would also be unthinkable to deny anyone else from joining, especially if the joining guy would have some friends already playing. So, in my point of view, everybody loose. But that is just how it works. I personally leave when there is too many people.

Playing with these guys is kind of interesting for me since my other Chinese friends are somewhat interested in languages and other countries. I seems to me that a majority of these guys aren't interested in learning English (they are not preparing for any language exams) and have no interest in (or hope of?) going abroad. My guess is also that they generally don't like or even strongly dislike foreigners. Chinese friends tell me that there are quite a lot of folks like that, but they probably rarely let a foreigner know. I imagine that they are the people that glare angrily at me and the ones that go on with long ramblings on the forums about the bad foreign influence on poor victim, yet in all ways superior, China.

When staying in China for a while one can get the impression that everybody are trying to learn English or are really interested in getting to know foreigners. I don't think that is case. If there is no language exam ahead I think most people couldn't care less. The impression probably comes from the fact that the people that are interested and like foreign things, they are the ones that generally approach you and become your friend.

So I'm playing ball with them. There is very little talk, and almost only between the people that are already friends. The no-talking part actually hurts the game. It is pretty useful to communicate with words or shouts. "Watch your back!", "Pass!", or "Hey!!" can help a great deal. I in fact do my own thing and go on doing that. The quietness is very strange since in almost any other circumstance people here are very loud. I guess some encouragements or small celebrations wouldn't hurt either. The lack of that is perhaps a little more understandable because of the tendency to not want to stand out from the group. So, when someone scores there sometimes is a short "Yeah!", possible a short applause, and then that's over, back to silence. Everybody goes back, looking down to the ground, pretending nothing has happened. Me too. If anyone shouted and made a little run with their arms stretched up, I guess nobody would do him any harm, but it just doesn't happen. If I did it I think it would be pretty awkward and I would be the foreigner showing off.

People ask me if I love China and I usually reply that I don't. Why do I think so and why am I still here then?

It's not the noise, it's not being pushed by people, it's not how people cut the line, it's not the pollution, it's not the greasy food, it's not the grey boring buildings, it's not the traffic, not the spitting, not the dirt and trash. These things can make you rant and whine on a bad day, but I think that would happen to any foreigner in another country. Perhaps just a little more in this particular one.

As a matter of fact, I meet very few people (right now I can't remember anyone) that have stayed here a longer time and say they love this country. I know several people that have stayed in for example India, Nepal, South Africa, Chile etc. and say that they really love these countries. For the good and the bad, they love that country, they love the people there. I understand them. I think I could feel that for these countries too. I've stayed in India for 6 months and although I went through hardships, being stared at, cheated, had sever diarrhea, most people there are very genuinely friendly in their approach. It is annoying sometimes, but usually warm and friendly. (That is if you travel away from major tourist spots like Agra where everything basically sucks.)

Back to China. People that you meet either stare at you or ignore you (but are oh so aware that you are there). People behind you look at you, some turn around and have a quick glance, and some start talking about the "foreigner". They REALLY do a good job to make you feel like an outsider. They folks from the country side stare at you or even shout at your back when you have passed by ("Laowai! Helloor! Hehehee..."). Since I live in a neighborhood in Beijing with a lot of foreigners I fortunately don't get too much of that. Another scenario is that some brave person comes and wants to practice English. That person might be lingering around for a while, hovering near you, while you sit there just waiting for the “Are you from America?” to hit you. That leads to the usual boring questions and the "Your Chinese is very good".

Maybe all this doesn't sound too strange too you and that this is normal when coming to a different culture? I guess my feelings are pretty difficult to express. The experience here is so much different from where I have traveled and lived before. Singapore (1 year+), Malaysia (numerous trips), Thailand (5 trips), Mongolia, India (6 months), Nepal, Morocco, USA (1 year), Russia and all over Europe. You can sense that China has been very isolated country. Isolated not only in number of people going abroad and people coming here, but also how people are educated, and how "foreigners" are portrayed for example on TV. When traveling in Mongolia people treated you like a person, not necessarily friendly, but not like some superstar, enemy, or an ET.

I think my lack of affection for this country comes from this cold approach.

Maybe I should say something about the strenuous hospitality and overly generosity that kicks in when treated as a guest, but I will do that some other time.
froglee
Well, we Chinese don't even like one another, what makes he thinks we will like him?
~Theta~
Should have gone to Hong Kong then. embarassedlaugh.gif
moviez
QUOTE

http://au.messages.yahoo.com/news/world/1079/

As being one that has been lived in China for more than 12 years, I gradually fall in love with China's unique culture, brilliant history, friendly people and her modern cities. Compared with other countries in the world, it is obvious that China plays the most important role in politics, and military security in Asia, as she is considered as the head or the giant in the world's largest continent.

If you ever have a chance to visit cities in China, you would be amazed at how fast and modern China has developed over the last 10 years. Cities such as Shanghai, Beijing have developed to a level that skycrapers can be seen "everywhere" in the urban area, very unlike cities in Australia, where skycrapers can only be seen in a tiny area of CBD in Brisbane, and Sydney is not even considered to be competent, apart from its seashore.

When you walk in a city in China, not only that you would notice you are already lost in the forest of modern concrete skycrapers, but also the busy crowds that can be seen everywhere on the street, which pervades the prosperity of a country. "Giant" shopping centres can be found all over the city, and most of them are at least 4-storey high(the most storey one I have seen was 10 - and that was merely a shopping centre for "books"). And as you walk, you would find many products are cheap but of good quality. Apart from shopping and sightseeing, Chinese food is something that you definitely must not miss, such as XiaoLongBao, JiaoZi and various seafood.

Another good attribute of the Chinese people are that they are very hard-working and "ambitious" people, who fight their very best towards their goals. This could be the reason that explains the Chinese economic boom, in which the Gross Domestic Product is grown 8 - 9.5% every year, which is currently the fastest in the world. If you are a business man, China would definitely be your first option in this era.

Most people say this century is China's century, I would concur with nodoubt
noneother
i hate the hostility and distrust between the chinese. you see so much snobbery and all this based on your from.
Adee
I think we're just reserve and always keep to ourselves.
WarEngineer
swedes are weird in that sense. their minds are way too simple and dont understand the relationship of himself being a foreigner and the locals in china.

i lived in sweden for 2 years.....hehe, place was nice, but no i didnt love the country neither...it was full of racism and $hit. so, i think this guy is talking out of his @$$
~Theta~
QUOTE(WarEngineer @ Oct 19 2006, 08:57 AM) *

swedes are weird in that sense. their minds are way too simple and dont understand the relationship of himself being a foreigner and the locals in china.

i lived in sweden for 2 years.....hehe, place was nice, but no i didnt love the country neither...it was full of racism and $hit. so, i think this guy is talking out of his @$$


You know, you've got a point there. The exact same thing would have probably happened to a Chinese guy over in Sweden. But I guess being European, he wasn't expecting to be treated coldly or differently (in a negative way).
Darth Lin
That's the thing about Europeans, they always expect to be treated nicely when they go overseas. But when they see a "foreigner" in their country, they treat them badly. The stuff he talked about can often happen to an Asian person moving to the western world as well, so I really think Europeans still have superiority complex. They just want to receive and not giving.
Mid-Night_Sun
awww boohoo icon_rolleyes.gif
Sae
don't agree with you guys at all. I was born in sweden and grew up with swedes, although I lived in a neigbourhood with mostly iranians and chinese. In my 18 years of life, I've never receivedd any hostile, racist comments against me.

"Ching Chang Chong" and that $hit may be derogative, but in sweden it is mostly said with a twist of humour in it. You hear iranians calling swedes derogative terms also.

EDIT: My friends that recently came here from China/Japan finds sweden and it's people very appealing.
WarEngineer
QUOTE(Sae @ Oct 19 2006, 05:14 PM) *

don't agree with you guys at all. I was born in sweden and grew up with swedes, although I lived in a neigbourhood with mostly iranians and chinese. In my 18 years of life, I've never receivedd any hostile, racist comments against me.

"Ching Chang Chong" and that $hit may be derogative, but in sweden it is mostly said with a twist of humour in it. You hear iranians calling swedes derogative terms also.

EDIT: My friends that recently came here from China/Japan finds sweden and it's people very appealing.


when they say ching chang chong, just punch them in the face biggthumpup.gif
DingDingDing
Ching Chang Chong
~Theta~
QUOTE(noneother @ Oct 19 2006, 06:41 AM) *

i hate the hostility and distrust between the chinese. you see so much snobbery and all this based on your from.


Actually, yeah, Chinese discriminate each other to extreme degrees as well. Goddamnit, Sichuanese people can be very blunt. embarassedlaugh.gif And don't get me started on the whole "Cantonese vs. Mandarin people" issue. It's gotten a bit better though, over the years. My Cantonese aunts used to look down upon my mother for not being Cantonese (my mom's Shanghainese and Sichuanese), even though she was brought up in Guangdong and speaks Cantonese better than Mandarin.
BlueAway
QUOTE(~Theta~ @ Oct 19 2006, 08:02 PM) *

Actually, yeah, Chinese discriminate each other to extreme degrees as well. Goddamnit, Sichuanese people can be very blunt. embarassedlaugh.gif And don't get me started on the whole "Cantonese vs. Mandarin people" issue. It's gotten a bit better though, over the years. My Cantonese aunts used to look down upon my mother for not being Cantonese (my mom's Shanghainese and Sichuanese), even though she was brought up in Guangdong and speaks Cantonese better than Mandarin.


if your mom was brought up in guangdong, then she can be considered a cantonese, right? chinese are from all over the place these days that it doesnt matter as much anymore.

but yeh the dialect thing is very divisive, especially amongst chinese in north america since chinese parents usually teach their kids their native dialect only, not the official language.
northwestern_student
you guys are so lame. Talktohand.gif

just because some guy thinks China isn't all that, you guys have to go straight to attacking how $hitty his country is.

Damn, does a foreigner always have to have a positive view of China
Oyabun
I wonder if that Swedish guy looks or talks like he does

IPB Image

~Theta~
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Oct 19 2006, 05:06 PM) *

if your mom was brought up in guangdong, then she can be considered a cantonese, right? chinese are from all over the place these days that it doesnt matter as much anymore.

but yeh the dialect thing is very divisive, especially amongst chinese in north america since chinese parents usually teach their kids their native dialect only, not the official language.


It's just that my grandpa is as Sichuanese/Mainlander as they can get. Even though he says he would only liked to be buried in Guangdong after his death instead of in Sichuan. So, obviously, some close-minded Cantonese people would "bully" my mother and her siblings growing up because of their somewhat different upbringing (they ate both Cantonese as well as Sichuanese food), and my grandpa often spoke in really loud Sichuanese to them in public (that's how Sichuanese people are...very loud). He can't speak Cantonese that well, he's got an extremely thick Sichuanese accent. Plus, they weren't exactly wealthy. That added to their image of being the poor, unruly Mainlanders.

QUOTE(northwestern_student @ Oct 19 2006, 05:11 PM) *

you guys are so lame. Talktohand.gif

just because some guy thinks China isn't all that, you guys have to go straight to attacking how $hitty his country is.

Damn, does a foreigner always have to have a positive view of China


Stop playing Jesus here, we were just being honest. What, you don't think some foreigners would get discriminated in European countries as well? And, we didn't diss Sweden per se. Talktohand.gif

I'm sick and tired of your pathetic PC ways, so pathetic that you've developed some kind of guilt syndrome where you'd think it's discriminatory to criticize other countries/people but it's perfectly okay to do so against your own country/people just because you're from there/one of them.
BlueAway
QUOTE(~Theta~ @ Oct 19 2006, 08:23 PM) *

It's just that my grandpa is as Sichuanese/Mainlander as they can get. Even though he says he would only liked to be buried in Guangdong after his death instead of in Sichuan. So, obviously, some close-minded Cantonese people would "bully" my mother and her siblings growing up because of their somewhat different upbringing (they ate both Cantonese as well as Sichuanese food), and my grandpa often spoke in really loud Sichuanese to them in public (that's how Sichuanese people are...very loud). He can't speak Cantonese that well, he's got an extremely thick Sichuanese accent. Plus, they weren't exactly wealthy. That added to their image of being the poor, unruly Mainlanders.



guangdong provicne was always in a geographically advantageous position. it was the first chinese province to get rich and so it furthered cantonese pride. its just like taiwan and their attitude towards the mainland.

i dont think chinese are that discriminatory though. china wouldn't have become so large and so diverse if the people were xenophobic as hell. if they were like that, then they'd be stuck with a little piece of land along the yellow river.
~Theta~
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Oct 19 2006, 05:27 PM) *

guangdong provicne was always in a geographically advantageous position. it was the first chinese province to get rich and so it furthered cantonese pride. its just like taiwan and their attitude towards the mainland.

i dont think chinese are that discriminatory though. china wouldn't have become so large and so diverse if the people were xenophobic as hell. if they were like that, then they'd be stuck with a little piece of land along the yellow river.


With Shanghai having developed so rapidly though now, as well as Chongqing and other notable cities upper north, the situation has gotten better, yeah.

Well, compared to the homogeneous Japanese/Koreans, no. I guess I made it seem like it's worse than it really is back there. It's actually not. Everyone's got their biases...but that doesn't mean we can't tolerate each other and live in peace.
BlueAway
QUOTE(~Theta~ @ Oct 19 2006, 08:34 PM) *

With Shanghai having developed so rapidly though now, as well as Chongqing and other notable cities upper north, the situation has gotten better, yeah.

Well, compared to the homogeneous Japanese/Koreans, no. I guess I made it seem like it's worse than it really is back there. It's actually not. Everyone's got their biases...but that doesn't mean we can't tolerate each other and live in peace.


its getting much better now. before, chinese were all stuck in their home villages. they were born there and died there. and there's disunity amongst the mandarin speaking chinese as well. it used to be really bad where a city person could not understand the people in the countryside even though they were all speaking mandarin. two villages separated by a mountain could have a hard time understanding one another.

now with economic modernization, everyone is moving around and mixing and the cultures are mixing as well.
it has always been a tough challenge to rule a big, diverse country like china. buts its managed to stay together for over 5000 years. i think it'll continue to stay together for another 5000.
Elysee
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Oct 20 2006, 02:37 AM) *

it has always been a tough challenge to rule a big, diverse country like china. buts its managed to stay together for over 5000 years. i think it'll continue to stay together for another 5000.


I suppose you have a little misunderstanding about this 5,000 years history.....

a roughly united China dates from like 2,000 years ago.
BlueAway
QUOTE(Elysee @ Oct 19 2006, 08:40 PM) *

I suppose you have a little misunderstanding about this 5,000 years history.....

a roughly united China dates from like 2,000 years ago.


yes the Qin officially united China. sorry, I guess I meant chinese civilization.
Elysee
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Oct 20 2006, 02:27 AM) *

guangdong provicne was always in a geographically advantageous position. it was the first chinese province to get rich and so it furthered cantonese pride. its just like taiwan and their attitude towards the mainland.

i dont think chinese are that discriminatory though. china wouldn't have become so large and so diverse if the people were xenophobic as hell. if they were like that, then they'd be stuck with a little piece of land along the yellow river.


Cantonese pride...lol never heard of this before.

half jokingly, if a cantonese acts that arrogant he'd got his @$$ kicked in any other Chinese province.

Guangdong is not even the richest province in CHINA, Zhejiang Province has the highest GDP/Capita in China and is much more equally rich than Guangdong of which some regions are still very poor.

I personally would consider anyone who brags about his wealth and looks down upon poorer people a babarian, regardless of his birth of origin.
BlueAway
QUOTE(Elysee @ Oct 19 2006, 08:46 PM) *

Cantonese pride...lol never heard of this before.

half jokingly, if a cantonese acts that arrogant he'd got his @$$ kicked in any other Chinese province.

Guangdong is not even the richest province in CHINA, Zhejiang Province has the highest GDP/Capita in China and is much more equally rich than Guangdong of which some regions are still very poor.

I personally would consider anyone who brags about his wealth and looks down upon poorer people a babarian, regardless of his birth of origin.


yeh but sadly thats how it works. You even see this in America.

Well for awhile, guangdong province was the leading economy in China. And traditionally, it has always been an outward looking province due to its access to the sea. It's always had more foreign contact and commerce than other mainland provinces.

Yes, today, guangdong province is no longer the richest but it was the leader in the 80's I believe. There are basically 3 major economic centres in china today. Once is centered around the Hong Kong area. The other around Shanghai. And the last around Dalian in the northeast.

Provinces like Zhejiang and Jiangsu and Hanzhou are very modern and Shanghai is their HK so to speak.

I think Dalian has plans to become the Hong Kong of the northeast and being the centre of commerce amongst the 3 northeastern provinces;heilongjian, jilin and liaoning.

I think of the interior provinces, Sichuan is doing the best due to its access to the Yangtze river.

Yunnan plans to link its economies with southeast asian countries like Thailand and Vietnam.
MiCC
who cares about a damn foreigner dislike china, ill be happy he never touches china $hit we dont need them anyways. chinese people dislike him cuz all the foreigner crap thats been on the news
nkekr
QUOTE(MiCC @ Oct 19 2006, 07:53 PM) *

who cares about a damn foreigner dislike china, ill be happy he never touches china $hit we dont need them anyways. chinese people dislike him cuz all the foreigner crap thats been on the news


Agreed. fu-k those laowais, all they fu-king do is b!tch, just give those bastards the bullet. Sheesh...
mobi3232
QUOTE(BlueAway @ Oct 20 2006, 08:27 AM) *

guangdong provicne was always in a geographically advantageous position. it was the first chinese province to get rich and so it furthered cantonese pride. its just like taiwan and their attitude towards the mainland.


cantonese pride? what are you talking about? don't overgeneralize. and besides, just because one province or one city is richer than another doesn't mean that everyone in that region is equally rich.
kunomchu
QUOTE(mobi3232 @ Oct 20 2006, 04:12 AM) *

cantonese pride? what are you talking about? don't overgeneralize. and besides, just because one province or one city is richer than another doesn't mean that everyone in that region is equally rich.


don't mind him. Its just Detuned Radio
Tang Dynasty
Typical response really. I really think these Caucasians need to get over themselves and stop considering themselves to be god's gift to mankind. Let's face it, as an overseas born Chinese, I find the people in China are also generally pretty cold. However at least they don't discriminate. As an Asian, try travelling through other parts of Asian and you'll know what I mean. Being treated like a third class citizen is pretty common in a lot of the SE and East Asian region. While in these areas Caucasians are often treated like gods and hence are given a false impression of themselves. Thus when they finally get to China, their oversize heads and egos can't handle it when Chinese people don't bow down and sweep the floor for them as they walk past. If that guy is having such a miserable time in China as he is going on about, then he should do himself and all of China a favour and leave the country immediately. I am sure his insignificant presence in the country won't be missed.

BTW. Does anyone have a link to the guy's blog? Appreciate it if someone could post the link.
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