I don't see much on Pakistan's history here. A lot of Indians appear to try to claim ancient pakistani history as their own, such as the Indus Valley culture etc. I'd like to propose an educational thread that people can contribute to. Perhaps people want to forget Pakistan's pre-Islamic history, but there's so much knowledge and significant impacts on world history that Pakistan has contributed to. I was actually going to start this thread in India chat, but looking at what's going on there nowadays LOL I chose to start it here.

First of all I find it really funny how India thinks it's the the original South Asian country, an ancient nation like the Greeks or Egyptians, which it is NOT. Both, India and Pakistan were created by the farangi colonists and part of various other empires before them, just because more or less all the regions comprising the present day countries were under the same empire for a certain amount of time does not make them a nation. Todays India is just as artificial as todays Pakistan, created by the Brits in 1947. Not because they felt intimidated by Gandhi's "dhoti" or Jinnah Bhai's "topi", but because they feared the likes of Mangal Pandey and wanted to leave with dignity before they got their asses kicked, the passive and docile "fathers of the nations" got all the credits, where it were the rebellions like Shaheed Bhagat Singh Ji and others who layed down their lives, they were the ones doing the "real work".

So anyways comming to the ancien Pakistani history. I'd like to begin as far back as the first significant part of Pakistan's pre-Islamic history, the Indus Valley civilization. India of course claims that this is part of their history. NONSENSE I say. All the major settlements and the majority were along the Indus River(Harrapa, Mohenjodaro) I'd also like to name a couple of famous people from Pakistan's past history such as Panini, who was a grammarian but also a mathematician, whose work is still used today and Brahmagupta, his Mathematics treatises had an impact all round the world. Another important civilization, which was basically Pakistani, but is referred to as Indian, was the Kushan Empire. A very advanced Empire, which was located on the Silk Route.

Intersting.

uh oh.... this thread will create another mumbai 1993 riot but the online version.

Are not those ancient "Pakistani" Hindu people?

So why is Pakistan a seperate nation?

I don't understand how your question is related to this topic, but yes you are right, they were hindu just like I am. I'm a hindu belonging to the Islamic faith.

Have I confused you ???







Awwww sorry, let me clarify. Hindu is a persian word, which has geographical significance and was used by the persians, who came to India, for all the people who lived in the region of the Indus Valley, the region watered by the river Indus(Indus also known as Sindhu in Sanskrit or Hindu in Persian). Got it ???

¿BTW why do you keep creating new accounts? Want to top devilish or something ?

Pun, are you a Sindhi?

The word India is also derived from the word Indus, so the Pakistanis living in the Indus Valley are technically Indians.

I'm 1/4 Sindhi. If you want to get that "technical", then pakistan was the real India. I mean it's after all the name derived from the Indus. I wonder how it would have been if Pakistan was really named that way. Would it be pretending to be the "daddy" of south asia ?

If you're 1/4 Sindhi and 1/4 Kenyan, then what's you other 1/2?

And yeah, "India" was originally used to refer to the Indus Valley in Pakistan. It's quite ironic how the Indus/Sindh itself is not known as India and the lands beyond it are known as India instead. It should have been the other way around, technically.

Punjabi, well my ancestors from my fathers side used to live in Punjab. I also have ancestors from Kashmir tho', so I'm not 100% sure about what i really am.

It's sad that not a single Indian user, except a troll replied in this thread. I'd really like to know what they have to say about it.

Anyways, just to clarify, I'm not a nationalist kind of type. I'm just asian :P I don't belong to a particular country. All countries belong to me The problem for me lies just in the fact that most people believe that Pakistan detached from India, which is NOT true! Both Pakistan and India gained independence from the British empire at the same time in 1947! The India of today is technically not the same as the India of any time before 1947. So after the partition, Pakistan could have been called India and present day India could have been called *insert name here*. Its just that in the past, the South Asian region was referred to as "India", thus people get this false image that the present day India is the same and Pakistan detached from it. And what really pisses me off is, that some stupid pakistanis don't want to remember their pre- Islamic history or don't care about it. So it makes it easy for other countries to claim it as theirs. Indians claim Pakistan's history as their own, but Pakistanis can't claim India's history as theirs. BOO!

I knew there'd be come Punjabi in you.

If you wanted to see the reactions of Indian users, you could have posted it at India Chat.

Banned

Banned

I'm curious... what exactly did Freestyle just say?

Well, just the crap he usually says. LOL He's actually one of the reasons why i started this thread here. All those trools will get warned or banned and my thread won't be closed. YAY Thanks to the moderaters who mod this section.

I see, so this thread is a flamebait, disguised as a history topic. I'm impressed.

Did you ever see any hint of "Punjabiness" in my posts? I'm just curious.

Pun-Pakistanis can claim anything they want. I don't know what else to say, because I don't have strong feelings on the subject? They're like teenagers on a quest searching for their identity.

Like Britney Spears said, "I'm not a girl. Not yet a woman." Yeah. That's Pakistan for you.



Didn't you say your dad was a Jatt a long time ago? Muslim Jatts are Punjabi from what I know.

^^Ahm Thanks for your input ? And yeah, my dad is a Jatt.

The first Jatts who became muslims were Buddhist Jatts who lived and ruled in Sindh.

Edit: They were not only the first Jatts who became muslims, but also the first south asians who embraced islam.

I'm by no means well versed in this topic but my understanding is that India/Pakistan was once a amorphous collection of Kingdoms that ebb and flowed. That the people of Pakistan and India (and Bangledesh etc) are of the same or similar racial stock.

The British colonized the area and put it under one rule, but when it was time to "grant" them indepencence, they felt that the Hindus would not get along with the Moslems and thus separted the groups based upon religion. No such distinction was there prior to the British buttin in.

Therefore, Indian history is Pakstani (and Banglesdesh etc) and Pakistani history is Indian.

Am I wrong?

1/4 Kenyan is very interesting.

this should be in India chat, or there should atleast be a pakistan chat. But I would like to ask do Pakistanis consider themselves Asian, in the sense that India does? Wouldn't they rather align with the Middle East?

The only thing I sense from your posts is Rajput pride.


You're mostly right. The history of India before the partition usually refers to the history of the whole Indian subcontinent. However, not all South Asians are of the same racial stock, since the region has over a thousand ethnicities. The larger ethnicities share similar physical features (but with different skin tones), while many of the smaller ethnicities look very different (i.e. Northeast Indians and tribes near the Himalayas look East Asian, Pashtuns and Parsis look Middle Eastern, the Kalasha tribes look European, the Siddi tribes look African, the aboriginal tribes look like Aboriginese, etc.)


It depends on the ethnicity. I think the majority of Pakistanis (Punjabis, Sindhis, Kashmiris, etc.) would consider themselves South Asian, while a minority (Pashtuns, Baluchis, etc.) might consider themselves Middle Eastern.

Is the Hill Maria an aboriginal tribe then?

The Hill Maria is kick-@$$, because they start having sex at a young age and don't hold any sexual double standards.

http://www.stormloader.com/munaypata/Hillmaria.htm

The Hill Maria are an aboriginal tribe in India, although they speak a Tibeto-Burman language called Nisi. Their women have more sexual rights than men, so it's not exactly equal. But what have they got to do with Pakistan?

How do they have more sexual rights than men then?

India and Pakistan's histories are inherently tied together. They can never be seperated.

Especially for those of us who had to migrate from country to another during partition. We left our homes behind, but not our histories.....

Well, at least parts of Pakistan are, such as Punjab and Sindh.

Balouchistan and the NWFP...Not so much.

Especially Punjab.

I'd love to go back to Lahore some time, but I bet there's not much left there.....

Moving, since India Chat is troll-free

Kill all trolls.

Like it or not Pun, Pakistan's and India's history are pretty much one and the same before partition. You're my long lost countryman

HF!!!

I remember reading it somewhere but forgot.


Wasn't you the one who created this thread at Other Cultures? Why the change of mind?