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Nha Le
DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A FLAME THREAD. THIS WILL BE EDUCATIONAL ONLY.

Inspired by the book "One Billion Customers - Lessons from the front line of doing business in China" I want to create this thread to discuss and share knowledge and experience about doing business in Vietnam. Please be constructive when making your comment.

I highly encourage anybody here to post any meaningful article you have come across about successful or failure investment in Vietnam.


Below are experiences shared by an foreign investor Kent Sears.
http://www.vvg-vietnam.com/sears_art.htm
QUOTE

Nearly [four] years have passed since the American trade embargo against Vietnam was lifted. Today, results being posted on foreign business scoreboards, especially for Americans, are in many instances downright disappointing. Some are viewed as flat out failures
Tales of woe circulate in the watering holes frequented by foreigners, with vivid accounts of projects delayed; goals not attained, scuttled schedules and busted budgets. Clearly there are lessons to be learned from the past three years.
In mid- l997 I participated in an information gathering exercise conducted by a major American corporation which was seriously considering entering the Vietnam market. As part of this effort, the client sent an executive out from the company’s US headquarters for a short tour of Vietnam during which the Executive interviewed 11 senior expatriate managers with verifiable successful Vietnam experience.

Use Your Time Correctly.
In the interviews, it became apparent that all these managers believed that it took at least three years here before they felt they could actually make things happen with even the slightest degree of predictability. It takes three years, they said, to gain the necessary knowledge of local conditions, to build-up trust and to develop the right kind of relationships.
Those relationships are important. Foreigners tend to put a lot of emphasis on spending their precious time dealing with and negotiating the more formal legal aspects of their Vietnam business ventures instead of spending more time on the really productive aspects such as making friends, building relationships and getting to know how things actually happen.

Key Points to Remember.
Apart from that and the ubiquitous lack of reliable information in Vietnam, I would say that new foreign investors coming into Vietnam should never forget the following:
• Many foreign companies come here with little or no idea of the amount or time it takes to get into the "making-things-happen" mode, and many if not most foreign management and technical people arrive without any useful orientation on what really to expect here. As a result, ventures are generally woefully under-budgeted, and the management lamentably unprepared for the realities of Vietnam.
• Typically, foreign managers come with a plan developed elsewhere and they try to either force it to fit into local conditions in Vietnam; or otherwise attempt to alter it to fit into the situation as they imagine it, Goals and objectives are necessary But you can't simply bring an organization's policy annuals detailed business plans and standard operating procedures into Vietnam and expect them to work (at least, in your favor).
• Assigning people with experience in other Asian Countries such as China, Thailand, Indonesia or the Philippines doesn’t always work. Especially if they are convinced that they have the answers to Vietnam’s challenges, even before they know what the questions really are.
• Failing to understand the differences between doing things and getting things done can also be a problem. There are many things in Vietnam which only the Vietnamese can accomplish and it is absolutely essential that foreigners understand the difference.

The Investment Fund Experience.
Perhaps nothing illustrates foreign failings in Vietnam more than the poor performance turned in by most of the investment funds. Since the funds came in early with plenty of ready cash, they could have staked out a profitable position. In fact, some have managed to achieved just the opposite, with at least one throwing in the towel. I would argue that some of their problems were painfully predictable.
Some of the funds employed people with little or no business experience either in investment banking or other relevant fields,. and no experience in Vietnam. They were then saddled with investment criteria developed elsewhere by people who have never set foot in Vietnam. Given these circumstances, the problems are not so surprising. It would be wrong to blame Vietnam, or the Vietnamese.
The Best Use of Agents. Potential new investors should also not underestimate the importance in Vietnam of agents, advisors, consultants and other intermediaries. Many companies simply refuse to countenance the idea, relying instead on [their own in-house] representatives on the ground. But it's important to understand that intermediaries have always been valued in Vietnamese society, which traditionally stresses harmony in inter-personal relationships
The Vietnamese tend to equate directness with dis-courteousness and consider subtlety a more pleasant norm of approach Intermediaries have traditionally been used for all affairs of consequence, including arranging marriages. Vietnamese are comfortable using proxies for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is status.
The choice of a particularly astute, influential or powerful mediator reflects favorably on the principal. In addition, this method of conducting business also eliminates the possibility of someone having to risk losing face by being confronted with a question he or she is not prepared, for whatever reason, to answer
I find it astonishing that foreigners often assume they are capable or coming to the country and conducting effective face-to-face negotiations with the Vietnamese, when in fact the Vietnamese themselves do not deal directly with one another.
And for those already here, I argue that we shouldn't lose sight of the long-term objectives, and should focus on the countries three most positive assets: the people, the resources and its location.
• The people are exceptionally intelligent, disciplined, eager to lean, well-organized and extremely industrious.
• The country is well endowed with natural resources.
• In spite of the recent, substantial financial turmoil in parts of the region, Vietnam in the center of East Asia on the South China/East Sea, is still situated in the center of the fastest growing economic region on the earth.
For those people with perseverance and patience, the future looks bright.
arun
People love to use 'cò' for many services.
Nha Le
QUOTE(arun @ Oct 22 2006, 06:38 PM) *

People love to use 'cò' for many services.

Arun,
Please elaborate.

FYI-
At my company there is a policy which could not possibility works in Vietnam.
"Do no accept gift from vendor or anyone you are doing a business transaction with such as having them to pay for your meal or to give you a ticket to a sporting event. “
arun
Cò is a slang for middlemen.


Nha Le
QUOTE(arun @ Oct 22 2006, 06:59 PM) *

Cò is a slang for middlemen.

thank you

middleman = overhead and miscommunication

arun
I should clarify that cò usually refer to middlemen who 'help' people with many social services. That term is not used for middlemen in business deals.
blacklight
Nah Le:

It would be very useful to compare what Kent Sears said in 1997 vs. what he would be saying in 2006. I want to emphasize that I appreciate frank criticism as very helpful and the franker, the better - as long as the criticism is fair and honest.
Nha Le
Visit here for more articles

http://www.vvg-vietnam.com/articles.htm
Sideley
About the parasites:

When I get off the train in Lào Cai, in front of the railways station, there were already a big crowd. The station's frontyard was full of minibuses and taxicabs, every driver wanted to land as many customers as possible, but the drivers didn't put one foot off their vehicle, all the crowd was made of tourists and co`. Co` were harrassing tourists, pretending they can find cheap bus place for tourists, the price they demanded oscillated from 25,000 VND to $25, some sweared out at the unfortunate tourists who wanted to grab the price down. Once the deal is concluded, the co` lead the tourists through the car park, asking the drivers for an available seat onboard, once the seat found, the co`discretly pays the driver 25,000 VNC , the official fare for the one way trip from Lào Cai to Sapa.

I felt mixed: ashamed and infuriated, I was furious by the way co` swore at me when I refused their deal. I was ashamed when in the minibus, english speaking and german speaking tourist complained about how they got crooked: each of them paid at least 3 times the right price.

That explain how a lot of tourists really hate the Vietnamese Kinh's dishonest and impolite way of life !

PS: NO policeman patrolled amidst the frentic crowd
chanoi
^ it's really not an issue. In VietNam you have to put effort into bargaining down the price of anything. That is just the way how it works in VietNam. The police role in the train station is not to regulate the price or how others conduct their businesses.
Nha Le
keep going . Tell me more "co`" stories.
a_tacitus
Last year was the first time I came back to Viet Nam since 93. I'm a down to earth, back packer kind of guy. So I left my family, which go to our home town with our relative in a rent van. I stayed in Saigon for an extra few days. When it's time to go back to my hometown, I took the taxi to Ben Xe Mien Tay, bought a 41,000 VND ticket (taxi ride from my hotel to Ben Xe Mien Tay cost twice as much). I talked with everyone every chance I got, the girl working for the bus company while I'm waiting, the lady sitting next to me on the bus etc,.

Common courtesy and good customer service don't exist in Viet Nam. It's difficult to get it. But unless you do, Viet Nam can be a very uncomfortable place to visit/live.

The van driver drove like a psycho who want to commit suicide. He kept driving to the opposite direction lane and swung back in a hair split to avoid vehicles from the opposite direction. He hit the brake like it killed his family and he's out for vengence. He honked the horn every few minutes to let other car aware of him.

We stopped at a decent restaurant. It's quite big. There was over 100 customers when I was there. But the server was a 15 or 16 years old girl. She threw my plate of com suong on the table before rushing to another table. Flies hovered above the rice dish. I had to shoooo them away with my left hand while eating with my right hand.
When I jump out of the van, two honda om guys pulled my luggage. They offered to give me a ride for 70,000 VND. I walked away. They offered another price, 30,000 VND. I thought it was a good deal, since they cut more than half the initial price. I found out later that my dad paid 2,000 VND for the same ride a few days before. It was a few minutes ride, less than a km.

A relative of a friend from the U.S. took me to Vung Tau in his car. He offered to let me drive. The car wouldn't worth more than five or six thousands in the U.S., but I know it worths a lot in Viet Nam. So I didn't dare to touch it. On our way, he stopped at a government agency to get an approval stamp for his business. He told me to stay in the car. He openned the glove compartment and took out a few hundred thousands VND. He ran back to the car after a couple minutes. He told me, it can take a few months to get this stamp for some people, but if you bribe the right guy it takes a couple minutes.

My opinion:

Currently, investing in Viet Nam is a terrible choice. Viet Nam consumer's purchase power is limited. Thus, the return on investment is very risky. Moreover, sunk cost might not be as cheap as predict. Trust, which is essential in a profesional business environment, is a strange concept in Viet Nam. You can't trust your accountant. He might takes your money and disappered. You can trust the middle man responsible for dealing with the local offical. He might take your bribe money and not deliver on his promises. You can't trust the local offical. They might take your money and never deliver on their agreement. You can't trust the your local business partner. They might renagate on the contact and it takes years to resolve the dispute. Even so, if the person who wrong you know the right people, you can lose the law suit. You can't trust your own workers. He might sells your company confidential information to your rival. Viet Nam lacks a clear law to punish such offenses.
Nha Le
QUOTE(a_tacitus @ Oct 24 2006, 07:55 PM) *

Currently, investing in Viet Nam is a terrible choice. Viet Nam consumer's purchase power is limited. Thus, the return on investment is very risky. Moreever, sunk cost might not be as cheap as predict.

Wait when Vietnam consumer's purchasing power become stronger = too fricking late.
Sideley
QUOTE(chanoi @ Oct 23 2006, 05:28 PM) *

^ it's really not an issue. In VietNam you have to put effort into bargaining down the price of anything. That is just the way how it works in VietNam. The police role in the train station is not to regulate the price or how others conduct their businesses.


People have the right to display the price they want, but they must not insult customers if the latter find the price excessively expensive. On the other hand, tourists should be treated fairly, not just as a cash dispenser.
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