I appreciate this but I have 1 question, whats the problem with calling them WNI, RI, or Indo as requested by Maja? Does it really make that much of a difference to the rest of us?

Honestly I dont use the word at all. I dealt with many indonesian in my work but I never use the work indo nor indon

But I can see many people especially in the media in Malaysia and sumtimes in SG, uses them. Is this a request by the forumers here or are we putting it acrosss the whole nation?

i call the Indonesian people by their names.

Or atleast, i label them as the "Indonesians"

just wondering, wat do people call us that we feel it is offensive? is there any word?

It might just be in this forum but, I feel if they request it we shoukd respect their wishes. After all quite a few have already stated so.

then it should be made public. if they are serious about it then they should submit to the Malaysian envoy in order for the malaysian authorities to do something about it

basically I dont see this thing as a big serious issue but the accussation after accusation to the Malaysian govt is one that we should really deliberate about

the feelings of hatred towards Malaysia especially since the deportation of the illegal immigrant is still in the minds of many indonesian. Do you know the whole story that goes around with this illegal immigrant thing?

I've longed submitted to the fact that it's better to call the Indonesians 'Indo', no matter how incomplete and strange that sounds to my Malaysian tongue.


But I strongly agree with the bolded statement. I've said this before, and I'll say it again : Even die-hard fans of the Indonesian pop culture call their idols 'Indons', i.e. penyanyi Indon, band Indon, etc. The part where they feel insulted because they have this preconceived idea that we harbour something bad against them is another possibility why they're bothered by the word 'Indon'.

It's funny how some Indonesians think that the word 'Indon', which they don't really use themselves, remind them about Tenaga Kerja Indonesia or other negative connotations whereas to us Malaysians who actually use it, it does not bring about any negative connotations.


I'm not trying to spark an argument here, just trying to clarify some issues ... but like what I said beforehand, I'll still call them Indo if they want it that way. Though the word Indo brings into mind that delicious IndoMie ...

yeah. for the sake of respect i too try not to use "indon". i think i asked aranadhel once to write a letter to m'sian media to show their dissatisfaction over this, since it seems they feel strongly about it. most the large papers eg theStar still use "indon". so its difficult to change the habit of majority of malaysians..

I say it once before and I say it again. If they feel strongly about this, make it public and use proper channel or record the dissagreement to the malaysian envoy so that things can be changed once and for all

By stating it on this forum, they are making it public.

I don't know much about the deportation of illegal immigrants but, I do know that if Malaysia was serious about controlling the number of illegal foreign workers, she could do alot more wrt protecting her borders. Furthermore if Malaysia was really keen to oust Indonesian illegal immigrants, why do it suddenly, publically, and only once, why not do it on a continious basis, after all at any given time I assume there are tens of thousands of illegal workers in Malaysia. If illegal workers were really an issue in Malaysia and if they could round up thousands all at once, why didn't they do it beforehand? There are other reasons why the Malaysian govnt tolerated the illegal workers and hidden reason as well I beleive why they deported them.

ya. but i think its not public enough. the proper channel, if they want results, i believe is the Information Ministry or some media representative. they cant expect us to lecture our friends and family not to use the word "indon". normally they'd tell just me to stfu or smack me in the head if i do that. but of course no harm complaining here to voice dissatisfaction, and to create awareness.




ya. i read somewhere that our economy or business have become addicted to immigrant labor. also other reasons why govts tolerate PTIs.

I don't think they are asking us to correct everyone else who are using the term Indon. They just don't want us to use it here. If they hear it outside this forum and are offended, I'm sure they will speak to those people concerned.

oh. maybe i got carried away a bit .

then just take it as a suggestion for the indos if they want to see greater change.

If they still continue to call us Indon, It would be better if we call them... Malesia not Malaysia.
So, we can call Malaysian -- Orang Males or Males only ......
I will campaign on that new names

I believe that there will be no objection from .....












(j/k)

aiya...we dun care what you wanna call us...we will call you indon anyway

^personally, i won't call someone or a nation with bad names.. that proves i will just be the same with people who call us with bad names..

me neither. but if someone provoke, then i will retaliate

Australians call British people 'poms' and the British don't find it offensive. Indonesians are overreacting. They always do.

Do they use it in national newspaper, websites, etc like how Malaysian use "indon"....?

It's a matter of respecting your neighbor really.....
You might insist "indon" as "neutral" and not insulting, but the people you rever to might not think the same...

For example, in my Bahasa Indonesia lesson in Junior Hi and Hi school called the People's Republic of China and Chinese people as "Cina" (spelled Ci-Na'). And believe me, it's not meant to insult Chinese people. But later Goverment of Indonesia and Indonesian media change it to "China" (with additional "h") or using traditional name "Tiongkok".
Why....?

After diplomatic ties normalization between Republic Indonesia and People Republic of China, China request Indonesian goverment to change that "Cina" name to refer Chinese and PRC, and change it to "China" or traditional name "Tiongkok". Because the way Indonesian spell "Cina" is sounds similar to how Japanese called them "Zhi-Nha" during Japanese occupation in WWII. Indeed that "Zhi-Nha" name is insulting, cos normally Japanese rever China as "Chu-Koku" or "Chu-Koku-Jin" for Chinese people. The international name "China" is quite exceptable, also traditional name of how Indonesian called China "Tiongkok" is also prefered by PRC, coz it derived from Chinese language. "Zhong-guo" in mandarin, "Chung-Kuo" and later pronounced "Tiong-Kok" as called by Chinese Indonesian.

Is a matter of respect and sensitivity.....

Reminds me of the slur word Injun.

ok ....has the indonesian govt made an official diplomatic protest over this issue?

I think only their ambassador or what?? in Sarawak make official complaint through newspaper regarding this matter.

one army guy I think.....but you go to newspaper for what...go proper channel lar

like we talk here oso no point....they marah marah us also no point...do we care or do we remember what they are crying for ...no right

anyway for the sake of friendship....we follow what doc says.....betong!!! bow down...say sorry to fellow indos....

Did I have too



For the sake of friendship

But what did I do wrong ????

We did nothing wrong bro.....its in their head that says we are wrong....we cant change how they think....so let them have it lor

later we see who goes to Tanjung Rambutan

I think I not the one who goes to Tangjung Rambutan.

So whose goes ????

I tot Bhas is your patient Dr Betong?

Hey guys..
was just browsing and then I found this thread.. quite interesting.

I'm Indonesian and I dont think indo/indon/indons are a derogatory term at all. I have Malaysian and Bruneian friends and they call us that, and I see nothing wrong with it. I dont get why some people now feel it is somewhat degrading. its not like its ambiguous and means monkey or anything.. lol

It's like how we - indons - call orang putihs which is "bule". Now bules are all upset about this word. At first it is just a word to describe a white person. Somehow the bules in Jakarta thinks that the term bule is demeaning, that it means "orang dekil" (dirty person - like someone who hasnt bathe in days). I have no idea where they got the idea that bule means dirty person when it really means white person.. so now they dont like us using that word when we refer to them, funny how a simple word can be misunderstood.

personally i dont mind anybody calling me indon/indo.. its just an abbr of the word indonesian.. the same as Malay, when im too lazy to refer to my friends as malaysian, i just say theyre malay.. same difference..
but that's me..

What took you so long?

Irrespective of whch, we still should respect the other Indonesians who feel its degeratory. Enough of them have said so.

to the best of my knowledge, its not derogatory at all, in our language, Indo means mix between indonesian-caucasian while indon and indons means absolutely nothing. It's meaningless, indifferent and unimportant, thus not degrading at all.
I dont get why people are offended by this word, but if some do then it'd be best to stop the use of the term, but some people love to make big things out of nothing... just my two cents.

Wow, interesting point you've got there, jakartaninbxl.

Especially the part where "Indo" means a 'mix between indonesian-caucasian'. So what do you say about Indonesians that prefer to be called 'Indos'? And are they all aware of that interesting meaning behind 'Indo'?

I'm (rather pleasantly) surprised to see one Indonesian saying that the word 'Indon' does not bother her at all ... and thanks for clearing the air. Now we know that "Indon" is a mere calling term, and it stays at that - nothing degrading about it at all, even in the Indonesian language.


I'd like to see the response of other Indonesian forumers regarding jakartaninbxl's posts.

"Dia itu Indo, cantik yah?"
"Sophia Latjuba memang cantik, soalnya dia Indo-Jerman"
"Rambutnya berwarna coklat, biar terlihat Indo"
These are examples of the use of the word "Indo". All Indonesians know perfectly well what this word mean.

Whereas for the word Indon, it means absolutely nothing more and nothing less than a term that malaysians and bruneians use to refer to indonesians.

jakartabxl,

some few singaporeans use the term Indon too. I just read it on Malay newspaper. the article clearly stated the word "INDON"..

Isnt Indo means Eurasian or Pan-Asian who are mixed with Indonesians?
That is what my Indonesian friend told me. And according to a Malay Language Dictionary, Kamus Dewan, Indo means Indonesian native with Dutch parentage.

Anyway, i think refering them as Indonesian than Indo is much better because Indo can mean other stuffs like Hindia aka India.

Bye.

Yeah you right. Indonesian sound much better than Indo. Like Singapore sound better than Singa or Singaporah

Indo also sometimes refer to India/Indians. eg: Indo-China, Indo-European languages, etc. In Malaysia anyone mixed with Indian sometimes are classified as Indo-whatever, just like Chinese mixed ppl as Sino-whatever. But Indians dont seem interested to use Indo to refer to themselves, so i guess Indonesians may use it if they like it.

They shouldn't need to justify why its degrading. If they feel its degrading then we should respect that. It is not for us to question but to respect. Besides what harm does it cause us calling them what they want.

Other names like N*gga, Blackie, Abo, Keling, etc all started as names that were not meant to offend but have now been deemed offensive because the people they refer to are offended when refered to by that name. Besides just the simple fact that our neighbours have asked us not to use that term, shouldn't that be enough?

i never ask you to call us Indo,,, use the proper word is so much better, call us orang indonesia or indonesian rather than indo or indon

We were using those before some guys came with the word Indon or Bangla (for Bangladeshis). It is not hard to revert back to calling orang Indonesia or Indonesian. Case close and I think we should also close this thread.

This one was good

The term Indon has been used for very long time. Then why is it now then the Indonesians wanna talk abt it?

Maybe Indonesian embassy should issued official letter to Malaysian, Singapore, and maybe Brunei govt and medias to stop using "Indon" to refer to Indonesia.
If it's to safe letter usage in newspaper's headlines maybe using RI (Republik Indonesia) or WNI (Warga Negara Indonesia/Indonesian citizen) is much shorter than "Indon".

Maybe too many people here are ignorant, too lazy to read or sumthin, but let me tell you again the background of Indonesians resentment to the word "Indon".
For Jakartaninbxl, I bet because she has lived too long in Europe, she didn't even know and don't mind the word "indon". Well that's alright for her doesn't means alright for others.

First... we Indonesians never called ourselves "Indon".
In informal way many Indonesians abroard like students or workers are refer people and our country as "Indo".
ex:
"Eh.. kapan loe pulang ke Indo...?
"Minggu depan..., emangnya kenapa?"
"Titip bawain rokok kretek Djarum sama Indomie yah...."

"Eh siapa tuh Mahasiswi baru di Kampus loe...?
"Oh.. dia orang Indo juga kok.... baru datang dari Jakarta?

In bahasa Indonesia word "Indo" also means Eurasian or Indonesian with mixed European blood.
In international languages, "Indo" refer to India. I know, even Japanese called India as "Indo". Indo-Iranian, Indo-European ect.

Second, Malaysian news headlines often refers "Indon" in bad lights.
ex: "Indon Maid Kill Again, Illegal Indon Deported."
All this headlines gave the word "Indon" bad conotations for us. As if it felt that the word "Indon" is refer to this bad Indonesians and also the way Malaysian and Singaporean mock and ridicule us.

Third, the word "Indon" is highly unpleasants for us to say or to hear. It's like the word "undone" for me.

So if you wanna have good friendship and relaionship with us, stop calling us "Indon". It's your call.

Like I said in my previous postings, "for me personally".. so it applies to me..
and btw, what does my living in europe got to do with anything.. its not like i dont know whats going on in indonesia or malaysia.. i go to malaysia all the time.. several times per year when I was still living in Indonesia.. and I went there last year when I came home to Jakarta.. so I am not that clueless..



I see many headlines in newspapers around the world e.g : "Man rapes 73 yr old lady, gets sentenced 30 years" or "Man robs a bank and kills 8 people or "Man kills his family and then commits a suicide"

Does the "Man" here give a bad conotation for men? Youre making a fuss about nothing.. Indon is just a word they use to refer to us indonesians.. if there were headlines like you said, what we should change is not how they call us but how the "Indon" maids behave.. If they change the word Indon to WNI or Indonesian as you suggested, the headline would say "Indonesian/WNI Maid Kill Again, Illegal Indonesian/WNI Deported" .. after that happens will Indonesian people start protesting again against the word Indonesian/WNI?

Oh... my bad...., thousands of appologies O' miss internationale travel.....
I just giving a piece of my mind about zat Indon word.
(jheeeezz... )

This issues is in the realm of language conotations and how we felt about it.
Maybe they meant harmless and neutral to refer us as Indon, but in the process that word has gain negative conotations or negative sentiments especially among Indonesians.

And I don't believe you tought of this: If they uses WNI instead, Indonesian will start to protest against using of "WNI" to refer to Indonesian.....? (sorry I can say this analogue are ridiculous -- to avoid to state this analogue as.... stupid).
Of course we're not going to protest, coz we also refer us as WNI too.....

^
perfect display of what some indonesians do in debates when they cant win and when cornered .. they sneer at people or sarcastically insult people.

fact: You first accused me of being ignorant (and imply that I am arrogant simply becuse I travel a lot) because lived in Europe too long. That was an unnecessary insult, as I did not insult you, you are insignificant to me.

So I was merely responding by telling you that I am not ignorant about this case in particular because I travel to Malaysia a lot... hate the game, not the player.. you are a very funny person.. If I had your attitude I wont last a day here.. kesal trus ngatain orang.. heheheh kayak anak kecil..



Again, I said repeatedly "for me personally" I could care less what you think about the word, i was just telling the malaysians here what i think, and that if they call me indon, i would not mind. Are you the only one who can give a piece of your mind? I am also entitled to give my opinion, and tell them that not all Indonesians object to the use of the word.



I was referring to your claim that the word Indon has been used in bad lights.
ex: "Indon Maid Kill Again, Illegal Indon Deported."
All this headlines gave the word "Indon" bad conotations for us. As if it felt that the word "Indon" is refer to this bad Indonesians and also the way Malaysian and Singaporean mock and ridicule us. <-- your words

So I was again merely saying that if the word Indon had a bad connotation because of "All this headlines" (your words, not mine) so let's say that all Malaysians and Singaporeans and Brunei never refer to us as Indons and use the word WNI instead..
then another Indonesian maid kills or steals or whatever it is some maids do (a very small minority, and bad people belong to all races, they do not solely belong to the Indonesians may I remind you) and the newspaper prints their issue with a headline saying "WNI maid kill again, Illegal WNI deported" and then another case, and another.. until the word WNI has, like Indon, been used in the papers so many times, most of which described some criminal act that Indonesians committed in Malaysia.. would "All this headlines" (actually, "All THESE headlines" is the correct phrase) give the word WNI bad connotation too?

That was my point.

So do more research, and tell me and all of us exactly what turned "Indon" to a word with a negative/bad light, and why, and how come, and maybe when it started to be that way.. if you have solid proof and facts supporting your claim then I applaud you, but until then do not sarcastically insult me, saying that I am stupid (dont insult my intelligence by saying you never said I was stupid, that you think only the analogue I presented was stupid. same difference. you should learn some manners before debating people) or prevent me to voice out my opinions in this forum.

This might be my last response to you as I am growing tired of debating nonsense with people I do not even know. warga malaysia, sorry to pollute this thread with these posts, but I promise I wont pollute it any further here so that you guys can continue discussing the word. If Mr. Majapahit wishes to insult me any further he is welcome to open a new thread in the indonesia chat with a title of "how stupid and arrogant ms. jakartaninbxl really is" or something to that effect, to satisfy his male ego.

Hi dear,

Its pointless to argue with people in this chat as they are out of this world full of crap. You dun hear similar things happening in the outside real world that we live today.

May be they spent too much time in the net and their brains got intoxicated

To whom it may concerned, get a life bro!

cheers from batam

Wow it's quite hot in here....
I didn't meant to attack or insult anybody's intelligent, oppinions or anything. Sorry if I did that or suggesting that I was thinking that way.
You are free to express your tought and opinion, and so do I.
But it was the process of disscussions that lead us to this unpleasant circumstances.

OK to summarize....
Malaysian, Singapore and maybe Brunei call Indonesians or anythings about Indonesia as "Indon".

Malaysian and any other "indon" word users insist and claim that this word is harmless and neutral.

This word are quite "alien" for Indonesian's coz here we never refer Indonesians with this word.
We uses WNI for Indonesian citizen, RI for Indonesian Republic, and Indo in short informal way.

In the process especially among Malaysian news headlines, this "indon" words often refer to Indonesians in the bad light, (yeah, news often a bad news) for example crime committed by Indonesians, illegal Indonesians worker etc. So in process this "indon" word are perceived by most of Indonesians as negative sentiments, negative connotations, to the extreeme, perceived as ridicule name given by them to Indonesians. That's the reasons of some of Indonesians resentment to this name.

Some Indonesians are really didn't like being called "indon" (me... ).

Some are don't mind being called "indon" (Jakartaninbxl).

Most of Indonesians I known are not quite pleased being called "indon", so in my perceptions, most of Indonesian doesn't like this word.

So for Malaysian, you may called us indon in daily spoken conversations, but do mind to whom you talk to, if you want to have a nice conversations. If you by any chance bump to Jakartainbxl in KL and called her indon, surely she wouldn't mind.... but there's also Indonesians who don't like being called indon.
For me, the respons I'll gave to anybody called me indon probably is that "stare".
You know...., the one you gave to somebody not worth your time to get angry to, and it's not worth it to ruin your day, so my mind responses (Aduh ni orang rese banget.... cappe dee....) like that.
Same here, you're insignificant for me... ga' penting banget.

Btw...., people are easily getting piss of these days ey....
Maybe ricochet is right, we all should get a live instead of commenting useless things in the net. Bye....

Seems to be some people feel that they have a lot of muscle in their arms and are ready for anything if instigated or insulted......wow...all the best bro. But dun underestimate who you are staring at

You already said that we have all the rights to say anything we want if the majority feels that it is appropriate and way of life of doing it.....so be it then and accept the fact that you cant change what is spoken or practise.

Unless the situation has escalated and provoke to national interest, then let govt and govt uses their diplomacy in resolving issues here

If people in this chat dont like the word used by fellow malaysian, then I may take the 1st step not to injure the feelings of my fellow frens here but likewise, fellow afers should also walk their talk in respecting the feelings of other. With that in placed, then their is harmony to be cultivated

however, if we advocate an open mind and accept the opinion of others and try to argue in diplomacy without invoking our "personal" feelings or emotion into it and forming a negative opinion on someone who lives abroad by saying he or she knows nothing of the social conodrum, than I would say the arguments and debate could be more interesting and appealing in future to come

my 2 cents worth