No Malaysian singers successfully attracted Indonesian audience, except for Siti Nurhaliza back in the late 1990s and Sheila Majid in 1980s. They both went and make records in Indonesia.

By contrast Indonesian singers are always popular in Malaysia due to better talent and more creative songs.

I think Malaysian music doesn't evolve to be as creative and dynamic as Indonesia's because Malaysia is a muslim state and has policy to suppress their cultural heritage.

Whereas Indonesia is secular and allow the heritage and diversity in their multi ethnic groups to thrive...

Malaysia looks to the others from western pop to arab fashion for trends to copy. Whereas Indonesians look within themselves for creativity.

Ok, what do u think of that?

Yeah, I really think Indonesian artist more creative than Malaysia...
Malaysia as Muslim state!!!! We're not there yet...

Malaysia artist didn't produce good song anymore nowdays...
For what reason I didn't know....

Well, maybe Malay=Indonesians, there's more to Indonesia than just Malay. But Malay culture is a part of Indonesia. And we got the best Malay culture, because the Riau-Malay, Bangka Belitung Malay, Sambas Malay and other Indonesian Malays are the best Malays in the world!
Even the both Bahasa Melayu and Bahasa Indonesia derived from Riau Malay. Remember, Riau Malay, not johor Malay

about the music, there were times when Indonesians like Malaysian Music. Not now, though. Oh wait a minute, there's an exception for the sweet girl, Sitti Nurhaliza. Bad image after she's marrying that old guy, though

ya. in msia too indo means indian. but this is just in official documents or so. like if ure mix chinese u r sino-whatever. and if ure mix indian ure indo-whatever. ppl dont normally call indians indo though here...

Here's the deal Bhaskara, in Malaysia, all Austronesian and most southeast Asian Muslim just become Malay. Irrespective of which ethnicity, we all take on the Malay persona which is different in context from the Indonesian one. Hence you'll find Melayu Jawa/Minang/Siam/Mandailing/Cham/Bugis etc. Like me, I've Minang ancestry and I'm proud of that, but really I just see myself as Malay. The concept of being Malay is just two different realities for two countries with many similarities yet essential differences, Malaysia and Indonesia. We're not trying to compete with Indonesia as who is more Malay. The Malays here are just are Malay.

Alarm bells rang in my head when Siti wanted Rosyam Nor as the model in her video clip for Kumilikmu(I think). Luckily the producers knocked some sense into her head and got Nico Saputra instead.

I agree. We are all Malay regardless of the sub-ethnic group we belong to.

I'm aware of the differences between our countries, malacca my friend. I once read a sad story about a Banjaresse Malaysian. He is labeled as a "Malay" and have to speak in Malay and appear in daily life as a Malay. But deep inside he knows he's not a Malay, he speaks different language and posses a distinct heritage from that of a Malay's.

That's the thing with Malaysia. All the natives in Malaysia are considered to be Malay despite his/her ethnicity. It's different in Indonesia where we value the differences. The only people who thinks of themselves as Malay here in Indonesia would only be the Riau Malay, Sambas Malay etc. The rest of us would proudly say that he/she is a Minang, a Javanesse, A Dayak, A Batak, etc. They would speak in their own languages and dialects. There are even religions which are synonymous with the ethnicities (Minang with Islam, Batak with Christianity, Dayak with Roman Catholic, Balinesse with Hinduism, etc).

Bahasa Indonesia is our national language, only used in formal occassions and when we speak to people with different ethnicity. But apparently, every "Malay" has to be "Malay" in Malaysia.

Blame the concept of the nation state. There's no relevancy to introduce yourself as a Melayu Minang or Melayu Bugis these days. Even Indonesians do not introduce themselves as javanese or bataknese when they are in the UN. They just say 'I am Indonesian'.

Only amongst yourselves would you begin to dissect the subtle differences and gossip about the accents, fashion style and crassness of manners...

Am i not right, bhaski?

tangawizi has put it succintly. Our modern nation-states has a lot to explain why Malays in Malaysia, and to a lesser extent Singapore, feel the way we feel about ethnicity, which is different to that of Indonesia.

Malaysians and Indonesians have been subjected to differen forces in its recent history, Bhaskara. Please appreciate that the Malaysia's experience under the British was different from Indonesia's under the Dutch. All the different Malay sub-ethnicites united under the banner of UMNO when the British wanted to turn the whole of Malaya into a colony, as opposed to its previous stake in just Penang, Malacca and Singapore (the Straits Settlements). All differences in languages were put aside, and Islam became a focal rallying point againts this foreign intervention. This was a time when essentially all the Malays, who had previously had a strong sense of statehood, not sub-ethnicity, united under one banner. Today there is a lot of recent Indonesian migrants to Malaysia who've taken Malaysian PR or even citizenship, and many don't appreciate the differences between their new adopted country and the original homeland. Again, the evolution of the bigger Malay race has been different over the past few centuries, through no fault of our own.

Just looking at the Malaysian AF members, we tend to have a stronger sense of awareness by way of our statehood rather than our sub-ethnicity. I relate to Malacca, Betong/tengkuafif to Kelantan, HangPC2 to Kedah, etc. Back in our kampungs our accents would be different, and to an Indonesian it would mostly be my Malaccan dialect which is most easily understandable. Even Singaporeans have difficulty understanding the Kelantan and Kedah dialect as it can be very different from the southern Johor-Riau lingo. I'm saying all this to reiterate that there is a difference in the perception of intra-subethnic differences between Malaysians and Indonesians.

In Malaysia, our Chinese community varies from the Cantonese, Hokkien, Hakka, Teochew etc, but because of the forces that affected Malayan and Malaysian history, they are just seen as Chinese. Similarly, the "Malay" community consists of Malay/Minang/Jawa/Siam/Cham etc, yet we just seen as Malay. The race dynamics are different to that of Indonesia. And similarly the Ceylonese, Tamil, Malayalam etc are Indian. Indonesia has not had the huge influx of south Asians and east Asians in proportion to its natives like Malaya had.

Why can't we just be like the Chinese/Arabs who identify themselves as one name although they too consist of various sub-ethnic groups?

"Bersatu teguh, bercerai roboh"

It's probably just me, and not in the racist kind of mind, but I still have hard time to consider Javanese speaking Malaysian (such as Khir Toyo - Selangor MB) or first generation Malaysian Indonesian as Melayu. I will consider them Malay when they fully assimilated into the general Malay society. Right now, many are still clinging to their own groups, living within their own communities - Kampung Jawa in Klang or Kampung Sg. Penchala & Kampung Kerinchi in KL/Damansara area.

Saudara, you must forget to insert Boyan.. "Boyan pun boyan la janji rock" plus Banjar tooo
Malay_Guy said he was Jawa Batu Pahat + Banjar....

I'm also very proud to be Malay and Malaysian... I donno if I'm 100% Malay but all my earliar lineage certainly from Kelantan... Even if I was from Kelantan, I speak to all my Malay friend using Malay language..


Give them time... How can we defined Melayu???... Are me from Kelantan you can considered Melayu???
I have very hard time myself to think who is Melayu who is not...

^I thought you're from Betong, Sarawak?

One of my earlier flatmates was from Kuala Selangor. Over the phone, she spoke Jawa to his parents!! When speaking Malay, he speaks just like someone from KL/Selangor. He was a 2nd generation Msian, his parents were from Java. We made fun of his accent lightheartedly of course, but get this... he also speaks Mandarin! Not very fluently, but certainly well enough to hold a decent conversation. His parents had the foresight of sending him to a Chinese primary school. Then as usual come secondary school he went to govt school.

@1+1: Khir Toyo, and Sukiman and Tukimin are some of the politicians name I've come across in Selangor. Quite a few in the Ulu Langat area too, which also has a large Mandailing community. Sometimes it seems that they try to play the racial card more than the rest who're more established in the country.

Bulding on what tengkuafif had said, while I am Malay, I feel Malaysian most.

Well, if u ask me, "Kamu orang apa?", I'd certainly say that I am an Indonesian. Nationality is first, ethnicity is second. So, I understand what u r saying. My Chinesse lecturer told his story about a story about when he was in the UK and someone asked him, dia orang apa. He said "Indonesian", and he was treated badly, because the UK guy think Indoensians as racist to the Chinesse. Funny, because my lecturer is a Chinesse Indonesian himself

But I think there should be more space for people to acknowledge their heritage despite Nationality. The Chinesse in Indonesia too, are aware of wheter they are Hokkien, Teochew etc. Many Indonesians don't consider themselves as a Malay (the ethnic group not the Malay stock), as we have a different tradition, way of thinking, custom, language, even religion. I'm sure Bugis people dont appreciate u call them Melayu Bugis. How can u claim them to have the same ethnicity while u cant even understand a single world they're saying?

If Buginesse is a dialect of Melayu, can u understand the meaning of "Pakarenaya laabibiri paga ukang"?Refer to the difference between "Language" and "Dialect".

So I'm sorry tengkuafif, I don't consider myself as a Malay. I am an Indonesian But of course there's no such thing as Indonesian Ethnicity, it's a Nationality, the one I'm proud of

^Understood Bhaskara.

As to your query, the vast majority of Bugis-descent Malays in Johor themselves wouldn't understand what that sentence mean. The sultan himself has Bugis background, yet he is still the symbolic keeper of Malay rights, and does not speak Bugis.

This ties in neatly with the original topic. Similar terms have different connotations in Malaysia and Indonesia.

I used the term Indon all the time without meaning it to be deragotary in the slightest. But now that I know some Indonesians find it offensive, I just don't anymore. Simple.

^ Yes if our Indonesians fellow feel it degrading them here, we should not called them Indons....
But in Malaysia, will Malaysan call Indonesian Indons that we will never know

Aww, thx malccy and tongy!U're such great pals!The way it's supposed to be between Malaysia and Indonesia!

New name

I don't understand why this has become an issue. "Indon" is just an informal abbreviation of "Indonesian" Peoples just got accustomed in calling Indonesians - Indon. Even many Indonesians living / working in Malaysian use the term "Indon". There are more important issues that the Indonesian government should look into such as the illegal Indonesian immigrants in Malaysia, the bush fire etc than this petty "Indon" thing.

Exactly. It's like when we call ourselves "Viets", short for Vietnamese.

well it doesnt sound as rude or insulting as being called Indons.. get it? besides, wat did the US called you during the Vietnam War?

calling vietnamese with viets is ok,,you don't do wrong spelling,,

I think he meant g@@k..sadly.

Oh, man. Just when I thought it's over. Listen here u numbskull!It's about respect. If u don't have the courtesy to respect our wish not to be called Indon, why should we respect u in return?
Maybe we should intentionally burn our forests near the Malasian borders....

Look, Indon does not make sense anyway! Indonesia is not pronounced like Indon-Esia. It's pronounced like Indo-Nesia. So call us INDOS rather than INDONS.

hey man. do u seriously think the two dont sound similar??? lol. sounds just the same to me


dont get me wrong though. i supoort to stop using the term if most indos unhappy with it.

pernah tengok badminton???
yg sering aku dengar INDO-NESIA (in-do-ne-si-a)
bkn INDON-esia ( dari penonton ^^)

Still nobody can substantiate why the INDON word is degrading....its only the general indonesian juz dun like the word we use for them of which I do not understand why?

Can someone substantiate please?

In Malaysia, we have a lot datuk, tengku, tan sri and other honourable names.....but come to SG.....when officials from MY cum to SG....the media will never remember all their titles....they juz refer them as DR MAHATHIR OR MR BADAWI.....no tan sri or datuk...or YAB. Its because its term they (singaporean) used to address anybody regardless of their title

The general interpretation of Indonesian if I may reiterate again is that....whenever we mention indonesian....we always think of indonesian are rich. When I told my fren that my gf is indonesian....he said....she must be rich huh??

Likewise in Malaysia.....we use INDON for everything related to INDONESIA. So what is wrong with it. You want to call MALAYSIAN in anyway deemed fit to you guys....go ahead!!

When the malaysian called indonesia INDON....it was never in our minds that you are an indonesian maid or illegal workers. We cant changed how you think....if you think negatively about how it sounds to you, then it is beyond us

It easy to know why Indonesians hates when Malaysians called them Indons. Because they stand firm in one thing, "What Malaysian is Not Indonesian". Even if we already said that there was not our intention to look down to Indons, they still didn't accept that.
That all in their mentallity.

^well in fact,, malay people use the term "indon" to look down on us.
it's like my indon pembantu,,,and it seems like all indonesian who work in malaysia are only pekerja rendahan..
dan we feel like you guys reffer it to rendahan people..and that's degrading indonesian.
of course we don't accept that..

and what dya mean with "their mentality?"

If the word Indon doesnt have any meaning, then why not?

Indon sounds ok, but funny.
And it is easier and shorter to type and say.

I was talking to my maid. She said she called back INDON. Yes, she said INDON. INDON, not indonesia!

It is perfectly fine!

If call them INDO, it is not correct because Indo means Eurasians in Indonesia.

So Indons, just accept it!

^you can't force it, than use "Ina" it means Indonesia and is shorter.
why you keep calling us with something we don't even like? then you don't respect us..

hahah Ina sounds like a woman's name..

okie.. Indonesian then.

maaf ya bu.

'indon' doesn't mean anything so why indonesians felt degraded when called indon? .. its not a bad or harsh word at all.. its just a psychological thing actually.. but if they prefered being called indo we're fine with that, but we already used to the 'indon' term..

Yeah baby. Honestly speaking....if we agree to what they say....they love you ....but if we disagree, they hate us.....but its only this forum its like that

Juz came back from Batam yesterday....entertained my Thai clients. They had a wonderful time....eat like pig...drink like there is no tomorrow. My indonesian friends are great bunch of people What a weekend to waste before the full swing this week to work

Where do you get this kind of idea. Why do we need to look down on Indonesians people. We have bigger thing to think off instead of looking down on Indonesians people. We also called Indonesians student who study here Indons. Common conversations in Malaysia btw Malaysians and Indonesians student....
"Kamu dari Indons ye pak" if he Indonesians he/she will answered "ya"
And if you asked the questions to Acehnese people he/she will answer, " Kami bukan orang Indons, kawi orang Aceh"

"Their mentality" >>>""What Malaysian is Not Indonesian" especially from educated Indonesians.

They have pessimism in their mind....what can we do. When we say we never look down,,,,,they say otherwise

We in SG always think Indon are very very rich on the contrary

in Singapore there are 2 types of Indonesians.

The damn rich rich rich...

and the normal people Indonesians from the kampung etc... the maids..

We call Japan "Jepun". It will be odd in our language to call them Jepang. The same thing with Indon. Saying Indo is like saying incomplete word.

So for the conclusions, nothing wrong for Malaysians to use Indons word in their daily conversations. Just didn't use here.
Indo is not Malaysian words, so why we want to use it.

yeah you are right man....doesnt sound complete....and likewise we call another country differently. Indonesian call us MALA-SIA you know and they always make fun on the way we talk like....kite....saye....

^We sometimes make fun of the way they speak too. So it is natural. The Brits make fun of the American accent, vice versa.

Singaporean Malays sometimes make fun of the way Malaysian speak too(malaysians dont use bahasa baku at all unlike singapore where some words here we use bahasa baku).

Malaysia: use lots of KOT, LER
Singapore: singapore lots of GEREKs and SEH aka SIH for Indo

What I am trying to say is that.....we dun make a fuss out of it in the end. But some people here are making it a big issue

Agreed, 100%. Actually, Malay likes to make fun of the Javanese, and likewise, I think Javanese like to make fun of the Malay.

You talk to rebelious separatist Acehnese, not Nationalist Pro-Indonesia-Acehnese.
Btw..., we know that Malaysia has been harboured them and become safe haven for Acehnese separatist in past decades.
Although Malaysian govt deny this, we know that some Malaysian somehow sympathize this separatist movement, based on sentiments of soo called "Indonesian-Javanese invasions" to Malay land of Sumatra. That's one of Indonesian source of worries to Malaysia, and the very reason of ex-president Megawati visit to Malaysia some years ago, to urge Malaysia, not to harbour Indonesian Aceh separatist movement.

Thank God now Aceh peace accord has been solved. Aceh rebel has agree to put down their weapons and become Indonesian citizen.

If Malaysian wish to shorten, or wanna corrupted the word "Indonesia", We prefered to be called
WNI (Warga Negara Indonesia) for Indonesian people.
RI (Republik Indonesia),
Indo (in informal way).
Take a pick....

Cause we perceive the word "Indon" as insulting and has negative sentiments.
How do you feel if we took revenge by called your country Malas-ya, or Malaise...?
If there's a Malaysian who insist to be hardheaded and still called us "Indons", well soo be it.
At least we know what kind Malaysian are they....; the insensitive arrogant one, with no intention to build good relations with Indonesia.

I personally think that Indonesians should be called whatever they prefer to be called, its just a sign of respect. Having said that I don't like the idea of Indonesians often accusing her neighbours of harbouring her dissentors. So far its Australia, Malaysia and Singapore.

Still they cannot substantiate why indon name is degrading....firstly it does not sound degrading as we take from the word Indonesian. Secondly, we have been accustomed to using that word in public, in the media and in normal conversation in malaysia. Thirdly, we do not have any intention of using the word to degrade our fellow indonesian

The sad part is that....they just dont like it. They felt insulting because they thought we harbour something negative when we use this word. When we say we did not have any such sentiment, they failed to believe us.

What can we do?

The ever so many accussations about us.....that's normal bro. They are never satisfied about us in Malaysia or Singapore for that matter

Its the same as when the African Americans were called "N*ggas", most people didn't mean it in a degrading fashion when using it but, it has still become socially unacceptable to use it.

It doesn't matter how it sounds, how we mean it or even if we've used it in the past, if enough Indonesians feel that its insulting, I personally feel they don't need to justify why. I personally feel their wishes should be respected.

I agree to disagree. N*ggas is different. It was used initially to degrade them