http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/as...97/jery-kue.htm
The link above gives a basic overview of the hmong funeral. It does not go into detail.

http://members.aol.com/hmongstudiesjrnl/HSJ-v1n1_Falk.html
This link gives more detail of the hmong funeral.

Qhuab Kev as performed by Seng Thao
Oh the dead, now you are dressed well and have reached the frontiers of the realm of Ntxwj Nyoog.
You will climb up into Ntxwj Nyoog's territory, full of bamboo trees, and soon you will be one of Ntxwj Nyoog's sons.
Oh the dead, now you are well dressed and you have reached the frontiers of the realm of Ntxwj Nyoog. You will climb up into Ntxwj Nyoog's territory, full of striped bamboo trees, and soon you will be one of Ntxwj Nyoog's sons.
Oh the dead, now you are dressed well and you have reached the frontiers of Ntxwj Nyoog's territory. You will climb up into Ntxwj Nyoog's territory, full of his daughters, and soon you will be one of Ntxwj Nyoog's sons.
Oh the dead, you are well dressed and you will soon be on your way to your grandparents' world. A spirit rooster will crow and your rooster will not reply. This is not your grandparents' place. People will try to deceive you and lead you to the edge of the mountains and the cliffs to try to make you fall into the wrong place.
If your rooster crows and the spirit rooster replies then this is your grandparents' place. You can perch on the edge of their coffins.
If the spirit rooster crows and your rooster replies, then this is your grandparents' place. You can perch on the edge of their graves.
You have now arrived at your grandparents' place. Those with smiling faces and fair features who are waiting for you on the road are not your grandparents.
Your grandparents are those with darker features who come to wait for you on the road. You can perch on their hemp skirts.
Now, I have accompanied you to your grandparents' place and if they ask you: 'Who brought you here? ' you must reply: 'Someone brought me here last night but had already left last year. Or someone brought me here the other day, but had already left the year before last'.
Your grandparents will continue to ask: 'Can we catch up with him and call him back?' You must reply: 'Do not go after him and follow his track. He has sharp swords and fierce spears which he may use to kill us or may set a trap for us'.

Qeej Tu Siav as performed by Seng Thao

The day is not the right day or even the right half a day. It is dark – the jungle kingdom is dark and full of leaves. The world is sad and a human being meets his destiny. The world overflows with living things. That is why someone must die.

The jungle kingdom is dark and unclean. The world is full of sadness and death awaits. Someone must die.

Take the life of a chicken so that it will be able to guide the dead person to the next world.

The dead person’s soul must eat the chicken’s heart and the chicken’s lung then follow the chicken to the realm of Ntxwj Nyoog. When it is sunny you can take shelter under the chicken’s breast and when it rains you can hide under chick’s wings. You will follow the chicken to the realm of Ntswj Nyoog, the many very sunny, very sunny roads of his kingdom.

nice..i never know what they said until now.

i don't know what they say either when i listen but i hate reading it...i've read the first sentence and quit...i hate reading it...i feel too sad.

Thanks. I have been looking for stuff like this everywhere. Can you post some more? Go into greater detail? The two links you gave didn't work for me.

Who about these sayings from other occasions such as New Years, etc. I grew up in the Christian community and don't know any of this stuff. Not that it matters, but I was just interested in the heritage and traditions of our people.

Thanks again. Great post.

Sorry, try the following links. I also fixed the links on the main thread.

http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/as...97/jery-kue.htm

http://members.aol.com/hmongstudiesjrnl/HSJ-v1n1_Falk.html

Hopefully this will help. Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

The only thing that is creepy about a Hmong funeral process is that the body is laid out for some time inside a person's house.

Creepy? That's only the beginning. Have you been to any hmong funeral? Do you know what is going on or is it like a big party to you?

I've never been, but my guy friend is married to a Hmong girl. And her grandparents died recently. So, I get the details on it. A funeral is never a "party". I don't find anything fun or humorous about someone's death.

We don't do that here in America for obvious reasons but that part of the funeral is still observed in Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Burma and China.

Here's an informational video on the Hmong funeral process:

http://www.learnabouthmong.org/showvideo.a...uneralsongs.asf

If you watch the video long enough, the teacher and one of his students will recite a funeral verse.

According to this website: http://citypages.com/databank/25/1224/article12120.asp

"Some years ago, a Chinese ethnologist used the qhuab kev to trace the southward Hmong exodus across Asia. In each village, he found, the people directed the souls of the dead north. Finally, near Beijing, he found a Hmong community that didn't send its souls anywhere. This, he reasoned, was the ancestral homeland of the Hmong."

I wonder how credible is this? I don't think there are any Hmong/Miao communities that far up north.

^ that makes some sort of sense. i think chiyou was from around there.

what is weird tho is that hmong don't speak an altaic language...

True on both accounts, but as far as I'm aware, all present-day Hmong/Miao communities are in southern China. It's highly unlikely that someone would find a community of Hmong/Miao people living that far up north in this day and age.

^ im not Hmong. I am Korean, but I have good impressions of hmongs I have met. After learning more about Hmongs online, I always wondered why Hmong's don't speak an altaic language. I must confuse Chi You's tribes with the Lake Baikal 12 tribes of altai, or Hmong's must have changed their language when migrating?? which one seems more likely do u think?

btw, sorry if this is inappropriate discussion for funeral rites thread...

THanks a lot guys about the translation of the songs, i myself was not really sure of what it meant too when my gramps taught me some parts of them. However, according to the Hmong tradition, you can only play, listen or read the "qeej songs of dead" OUTSIDe of your houses, unless you have a person in your home passed away. Its all up to you guys..im just cautious of what can happen..

You got that right. Don't be singing that song like one of your favorite song on your ipod. Did your gramps also tell you that you can't point the "qeej" toward someone when you're blowing it? Hmongs are simple people but are so creative. No what I mean.

I am fascinated with the use of Ntxwj Nyoog. Growing up a Christian I've always associated this term to mean the devil. So my assumption has always been that the person is going to hell. However, I'm pretty sure my assumption is wrong since it is informed partly by my own religious beliefs. Can someome elaborate on the actually meaning of the term Ntxwj Nyoog in Hmoob Funeral rites? Does it represent a being? What kind of being? What is the significance of Ntxwj Nyoog?

This reply is not meant to initiate any christian vs. tradition debate, it's simply a curiosity that wishes to be englightened. Thanks.

... edit ...

well i heard that you aren't suppose to keep those stuff you use for hmong funerals in the house because it's bad luck. like you aren't suppose to say those funeral words stuff at your home and stuff. i actually don't know much about this superstition tho.

i think a hmong funeral is as much a family gathering/reunion as it is a funeral.

my mom said that yawm saub is the one that created people. i don't know about ntxwj nyoog. i thought he was just like a monster (tus dab) that goes after people's spirits.

In traditional Hmong beliefs, life is a never ending cycle. The cycle of the of human soul can be divided into three realms, each with it's own ruler: the realm of life (ntiaj teb) is ruled by Shee Yee, the realm of death (dab teb) is ruled by Ntxwg Nyoog and the realm of rebirth (saum ntuj) is ruled by Yawm Saub. It is in this order that one soul passes from one life to the next. In Christianity, the ultimate aim is to go to Heaven and live in God's kingdom, whereas in traditional Hmong beliefs, the ultimate goal of one's soul is to be reborn again.

Qhuabke: Taij Dab Qhuas

The singing of zaj qhuabke is obligatory in a traditional Hmong American funeral; it is always the first event to take place. Qhuabke is done by a trained individual, who is given the official funeral title of - taw kev,“ meaning the one who points the way.

Through a procedure known as - taij dab qhuas,“ to ask the guardians, the taw kev guides the deceased out of the home (funeral home), making stops at each of the locations listed above. He is to get permission from the guardian of each place before leaving its boundary and space. The first stop is at the Guardian of the bedroom door, where this exchange takes place:

The Taw Kev sings:

You are a person who belongs to this household. Every day you walk about, flexing your body, moving about. Today, why are you lavishly dressed, lying across the middle of the floor? In the old days, you moved about, shifting your poise, full of energy. How is it that you are now so richly adorned, sleeping on the ground, occupying the length of the floor? Why do you not stay and prepare the harvest for the arrival of brothers and cousins? Or raise animals, expecting visits of other relatives? You are a person of this household. Why are you brilliantly dressed and taking leave, for what purpose?

The deceased answers:

I am a member of this household, a person of this family. But Ntxwg Nyoog is unkind; he has unleashed the fruit of death onto the earth, scattering it on the far side of the mountain. Unaware of it, I have picked it up to eat. Sickness has swept over me, engulfing the essence of my liver; chills spread slowly, invading the vessels of my heart.

My body has become frail and fallen in bed; my head rests lifeless on a pillow. My brothers, sons and daughters have requested nine shamanic performances, but none has brought cure; They have sought eight kinds of herbal remedies, but my health could not be restored. As the pillars of life collapse, my veins weaken and wither. When the columns of life crumble, my veins and vessels sever. My flesh disintegrates, melting away like honey and bee wax; My bones decay, becoming as fragile and brittle as the stalks of dry hemp. In this way, the road has opened up for me to be on the way.

Here, the deceased acknowledges he is a member of the family and belongs in the home; he is leaving only because of death. Permission is granted when the sticks (NOTE: in addition to the song itself, the taw kev's most important tool is a pair of divining sticks called - txheej ntawg.“ This is simply a short piece (2-3 inches) of round bamboo that has been split down the middle into equal halves. A taw kev uses these to communicate with the deceased. He would hold these in his hand as he sings each stanza. At the end of a stanza, he would release the sticks with a quick jerk of his wrist and decipher their landing. Each landing has only one of three possible outcomes: two halves face up; two halves face down; one half faces up and the other down. This last scenario is the only acceptable one. It signals that the deceased has accepted the instruction he has just received. In this way, he is guided stanza by stanza on a long journey. Here, movement is communicative and symbolic) have landed favorably one half face up; the other down. In addition, before he sings a stanza, the taw kev would tuck several squares of golden and silver paper, called - xov txheej,“ into the deceased‘s left hand. He then proceeds with the singing. When he finishes, makes his toss and the sticks confirm, he would remove the papers and immediately burn them in a metal tray, located in front of him. As he does this, he would say: Here, you offer incense and gold paper as a gesture of thanks to the Guardian of the bedroom door. When you have done so, he will let you go; you can then be on your way to your ancestors.“ The burning completes the agreement between the deceased and the Guardian of the bedroom door. He is then free to move to the next stop, where he must re-negotiate his passage. Each border crossing, hence, requires the deceased to take action and make his presence - official.“ Each guardian serves as a witness, approving his departure. Overall, the landing of the sticks is what signals to the taw kev whether he can move on to the next household structure or not.

To the above poster before me: Thanks for all the info. I love it.

THESE are some TIGHT $hitS!! i always wanted to know what they're saying.... geeze, now i know.. i find the song so beautiful and sad, yet dangerous to sing...

There is also a song saying,

"If ever a rock sprout a flower, then you can return, however, if a rock can't sprout a flower, then you shall not return."

it's like saying to the decease that he or she can't return to the human world because his body is dead.. his soul is alive but he has no body.

this is more like a song that is used to lock the path of the living and the death.

THANK AGAIN FOR TRANSLATING THE BURIAL SONG.. so sad..

lol

weird... i'm quite unaware of it until pops in mind this guy was actually labeling Hmong belief heading to hell

Like Greek Mythology Hmong Mythology.

i know, hmong christian actually use that word and change the meaning of it into HELL..

heaven and hell does not exist in hmong animist beliefs,

DEEP MEANING.. remind me of many Native Indian Chants.

i have been to two hmong funerals in the past two months. the most i've ever been to. i really wanted to learn more about it and i observed a lot of things that went around. one thing i hate about hmong funerals is the money involved....lots of dispute when it comes to money. when we bow to receive fortune from the dead i listen to the things they say...its sad and i always get teary....its not the words they use but the melody and tone they use it in that really gets to me.

Going slightly off topic. I believe Hmong needs to change the funeral practice in countries like Thailand because of grave desecrations over there. I think cremation should be considered as an option. If you expect government to protect graves it will rarely happen.

koj tsis nco qab zaj ua tsaug thiab zaj teb cov xyom cuab cov lus ua tsaug... (you forgot to add the thanks and welcome for the host)...

Zaj Ua Tsaug

Ua tsaug os mog, Yeeb vim peb tsev xyom cuab muaj kev ploj kev tuag, koj tsis cia li koj tseem xav neej xav tsa, xav txheeb xav ze, muab nyiaj muab txhiaj los pab peb tsev xyom cuab nta dab nta qhuas kom ntseg ntwb tam ncej txawb...

Hnub qab nram lub ntsis, peb tsev xyom cuab ua lub neej xws luag ces peb yuav nco koj tshav ntuj mog! Yog peb ua neej tsis xws luag ces cuag li yuav muab koj txiaj koj ntsim rau nraum toj nraum tsuag, ua tshauv ua thee, ua tshav ua nag yaj lauj mog ov!...

(Hais li no tag nrho ces pe kiag ib pe)

Zaj Teb Cov Xyom Cuab Cov Lus Ua Tsaug

Tsis txhob ua tsaug lauj mog!

Luag tias nej xyom cuab tsev ploj tsev tuag tsev puas tsev ntsoog. Yam li kuv ua lub neej vij zeej xws luag ces kuv yuav muab nyiaj txiag qas ntsos, dej cawv qas log tuaj pab nej xyom cuab nta dab nta qhua kom ntseg puav tam ncej txawb! Cuag li kuv twb ua lub neej tsis xws luag ces, kuv twb toom tsis taus txheej, toom tsis taus ntsig! Tuaj pab tsis taus nej xyom cuab nta dab nta qhua! Twb tuaj tauv tsis tau nej xyuam cuab lub kua muag lauj! Tsis txhob ua tsaug; nkim lo lus ua tsaug xwb lauj mog!

(Hais li no tas ces koj tuav tus xyom cuab caj npab cheem tsis pub nws pe los sis koj nrog nws pe).

NOOOOOOOOOOOO, we're not buddhist people. we don't believe in cremating our deceases.
that is just wrong. Only buddhist and hindu people burn their love ones.

How do expect to protect Hmong graves then? These grave robbers will constantly target anywhere where there are bodies buried (I know its sick but its happening). These people do not look at ethnic minorities as human beings and dont care. They will dig up your grand parents if they had a chance. Its disgusting but true.

lol

I still wouldnt want someone to mess with my love ones grave regardless.

I know Hmong dont disrespect other people's beliefs. These graves robbers dont care.

Its these black magick grave robbers that gets me pist. They are disgusting animals. Your right about that.

bingo. lol

interesting. thanks for the information. i've never attended the old-fashioned Hmong funeral but know the ritual from my maternal grandfather and father. i would like to see one myself... but i don't wish for another life to perish just for that sake, LOL.

and xeemlauj, i never thought and was taught the term to be understood in that way... if you are one fourth of a wise person, you could at least know better and not hastily state such. i just hope you understand that as your knowledge is insignificant compared to what the vast and ever-changing universe will endlessly provide, one should not be so quick to speak of anything already as all things are uncertain (that's why the normal but wise person strives to live on). there is much beyond our learnings. God bless~

Same thing can be said about GOD. At least believe it with moderation not with absolute certainty.lol

I wish many of the Hmong ritual songs are translated into English.

First of all, I am proud to say that i am a strong believer of GOD and as stated from the Holy Bible, the words of God the only way to Heaven is to put your trust in Jesus.

However i still respect all the old Hmong ritual and stuff. Um the last Hmong funeral I've been to were my truly missed grandma's. To my point of view, i think hmong funeral are sometimes scary.
Why i said that, because of all the crying and moaning from people that you barely know. It gives me nightmares thinking about it. -_- sad but true. Anyways, even tho i am a strong believer of God, i still participate in almost everything that the non believers do at the funerals. I'm glad to hold the two or three sticks and bow on my knees for hours or even over night for the people that i love. I'm glad to stay awake for 3 days 2 night straight. (or how ever long it is) -_- It doesnt bather me.

I am doing some quick research about Hmong Funeral and I am really interest about the meanings of the qeej and the drum. Although I am hmong myself, I never understood what they were saying and for what reason.
I was wondering if I could get any example of the Hmong people crying/playing drums/singing/ and playing the instrument?

Yexus is your god huh? Didn't the bible forbid you from bowing to others but only god himself? You're a fake.lol Words of god are words of men before you, whom pretends to spoke in god's name for their own selfish needs. You don't have to look far to see the truth, how many priest and pastors have been convicted in today's society? Jeff Warren is god to many followers, the same can be true of Yexus.

Even tho i'm a believe of God, I'm still hmong. No where in the Bible (as far as i known) had forbid us to do anything. Instead God gave up choices. Choices to have faith in him or move towards evil. And because Hmong believes in an after life, i feel that it was good for me to bow for my grandmother. It stated in the Bible that through children eyes, Parents are a human form of GOD. In that case i treat my Grandma, Grandpa, Father and Mother with Highly respect. UNLIKE some people out there!!!!!!!! o_O, goodness, because this world is so full of sins there's people like you who can never accept the truth. ANd who are you to judge whos a fake and whos a believer? All you'll ever be is a sinner til you put faith in Jesus. You have not right to judge anyone nor do i have any right to judge you. The only one who has that much power to judge is GOD, not you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!