India expressed an interest in Mongolia, the USA has already listening and other devices posted in Mongolia. When Rumsfeld visited Mongolia, he was asked whether they were interested in establishing a base in Mongolia......he said something on the lines of “We’ve had no discussions along that line, and I know of no intention to do that,” it isn't an straight NO or an YES answer.

There was also talk of building a UN training center for Peacekeepers.

What do you think???

Obviously the Chinese may not be too happy.

Looking at the experiences of S.Korea, Iraq etc it isn't a good thing that we have this foreign military bases. It is a beginning of taking over process. Mongolia is the safest country world therefore what is there for us, completely no need.

UN training center for Peacekeepers would be a great thing.

I doubt U.S. bases in Korea take any part in a "take-over" process. I doubt so about Iraq too.

And I most certainly doubt Mongolia is the safest country. No country bordering China is safe in the long run. Mongolia either needs a very powerful army or powerful allies, and to have powerful allies you don't necessarily have to have foreign bases.

lol always looking to for a chance to bash china.

Mongolia shouldn't let foreign bases unless there are money involved.

There are a lot of things to "bash" China about from a non-biased perspective. And besides, what's so "bashing" about considering China a threat?

what threat? Does United States see its neighbors mexico or canada as threats?

Russia too

It's official report that Mongolia is among the first 3 safest country in world, for a tourism right now. But I'm certain that we could do without any USA miltary bases in Mongolia although it's good to have powerful allies for anyone.
S.Korea is always protesting against USA base which in right center of the Seoul and your country has to pay outrageous amount of loan to USA. Maybe it's not physically taking over in other ways but simular process they've done. In Iraq USA base getting bigger & bigger, I've heard they making new project of making huge base 4 times big as Vatican city.

Oh, so you meant it as a matter of domestic security, not national security.



The majority of Koreans support the ROK-US alliance as well as the US military presense, and it's only a few well organized radicals who make those protests repeatedly. And originally, the US base in Seoul was not in the "right center". In the past, that area was well outside the city walls of Seoul, but it became the "right center" as Seoul expanded. Anyways, the US base in Seoul will be moved to Pyungtaek.

Do u really think that you need US base in your country?

Yes, mainly because of North Korea. US troops in Korea have some important roles in South Korea's battle plans for a North Korean invasion. After reunification, perhaps American military presense won't be as necessary, though ROK-US alliance will be retained for certain to keep China in check.

It's amazing what nuclear forces have in N.Korea but I don't think they would try to invade S.Korea by force? It should be done with peace, you'r brothers after all.

real military powers never allow foreign bases/troops to be in their country.

I agree with Santa. No one bordering China is safe if they decide to get desperate and/or crazy.

Santa is a crazy right winged Korean who thinks all non koreans are and will be potential enemies of Korea. Agreeing with a nut like that is detrimental to your overall development as a genuine human being.

No, he mostly thinks people like you are potential enemies of Korea. I'm not a Korean and I get along very well with Santa.

I don't think Mongolia and Russia are potential threats to Korea. Rather, I see them as good potential strategic allies.

Why what on earth would make you say that? Really though this whole China threat is getting really old and rhetorical. China's main goal is economic dominance not military.

It's happened before. But you can never know what will happen in the future. Hell, we'd have never thought the US to attack the wrong country.

Well you have a point there but like I said China's main goal is economic dominance. Besides, controlling too much land can be more of a liability than an asset. China's main goal right now is to reduce poverty, modernize and to be the future global player in the world economy. It's not a matter of choice if you think about it. Having the world's largest population is inevitably going to lead to some form of worldly economic dominance or another. Relax, you don't need to worry about Chinese soldiers crossing the Mongolian border. Chinese businessmen and traders? Most likely but not soldiers.

Business men, traders could possibly help the economy, no complaints there.

There's nothing at all in this world that could make me approve any reason for attacking Iraq. They didn't attack the US, they shouldn't have ever been a target.

It's all geopolitics my friend. Iraq is a target because the US has always wanted a stronger influence/presence in the Middle East. If Saddam was a Sudanian dictator, I highly doubt the US would give a $hit about him.

But when dealing with China, economic dominance may indicate possible military aggressions and a threat to national security. There are certain precedents that will serve to taint China's political intentions for a very long time to come, if not ever. Lets take Russia for example in how economic/demographic integration leads to national security concerns:





http://worldpoliticswatch.com/article.aspx?id=473

According to Korean news sources, shortly after Putin's statement, the Russian government began ousting all foreign store owners in the Russian Far East. I haven't been able to confirm it in international sources however.

And how exactly is that a military threat? Chinese immigrants migrate to the RFE for economic opportunities. It's not as if the CCP is purposely sending migrants over there to take over. The incentive for migration is the same for any immigrant, more economic opportunities and possibly a better life and you can't blame them. No offense but this argument is pretty lame. You might as well argue that the Chinese are a military threat to Canada due to the high immigration percentages to Toronto and Vancouver.

Nevertheless, it was Putin's statement that Russian Far East is under national security threat, and Russians who prevented more Chinese immigrants from coming over for national security concerns. The situation is pretty much similar in Korea - China's increasing economic integration of North Korea is seen as a national security threat.

So why don't you go reflect on yourself.. ask yourself why these people are looking at China this way.

Hehe this reminds me of certain Americans who are complaining about immigration from Mexico. It also reminds me of Pat Buchanan's book Death of the West as well as certain SE Asian countries persecuting it's Chinese minorities for economic dominance. Pretty amusing yet disturbing stuff. I can't really think of why anyone would consider emigration a national security threat (much less military if that even makes any sense) other than paranoia and extreme racism. Oh and Putin can do whatever he wants in his country, afterall he runs the place but actions like deporting minorities like the Chinese in the RFE are also going to have dire consequences as to how other nations see/deal with the Russian Federation. Likewise Chinese economic activity from emigrants are indeed benefitting the Russian economy. If he wants to jeapordize that, that's his issue. Let's just hope he doesn't take such extreme measures. I hope that's enough reflection on my part. It seems as though other people should do some reflecting on their own.

Oh, I think Koreans and Russians understand quite well how Han Chinese immigration to occupied territories strengthened political control over those areas, not to mention China invaded Vietnam because of "mistreatment of ethnic Chinese". Such are the precedents by which we judge China. Actions speak louder than words.

Strengthen political control? In what way? The majority of Chinese immigrants to Russia are businessmen and traders. Most of them run small businesses the same way many Chinese immigrants in the US. How does that equate to strengthening political control? Your argument doesn't really make much sense here. You are beginning to sound alot like Pat Buchanan.

As for the Vietnam example, unfortunately China also witnessed the horrors of how the Indonesians and Malaysians mistreated their ethnic Chinese. Was their an invasion of those countries? And if military action were indeed taken can you not say it's justifiable? Are you telling me that persecutions of those ethnic minorities were justified? I don't think the US would just sit idly by if any country decided to persecute or massacre American tourists/immigrants on a large scale.

You are great Korean Chuvinist, claiming so-called Gendo problem to want to steal our Chinese land!

Manchuria belongs to China, not Korea.

Sea of Japan is Sea of Japan, not so-called East Sea.

Uhh I don't believe we ever even mentioned MAnchuria in this thread. Seriously stop hijacking threads, you don't even make sense half the time.

As for strengthening political control, I was talking about "domestic" political control over Chinese territory. You see, the U.S. doesn't border China. But Russia does, and it has fought border wars in the past too. Can you guarantee that China will never make claim on the Russian Far East if circumstances are in their favor? They can come up with whatever excuses and "liberate" it from Russian control, just as they did to Tibet. Hell, China even uses ethnic Chinese as an excuse to make a unilateral invasion of another country, resulting in tens of thousands of civilian deaths. China even used military force on Korean civilian ships on border disputes.

As I've said, actions speak louder than words.

I repeated that, Tibet is Chinese Tibet, not Korean Tibet! (Tibetan problem is human right problem, not sovereignty problem)


Can you guarantee that you are not Korean fundamentalist?

And why would China claim the RFE? In case you had a hard time understanding, the majority of Chinese emigrants to the RFE are BUSINESSMEN AND TRADERS. How does that correlate to political control? Do you even realize the situation these people are in? Much less care to understand them? Of course not because you'd rather just ramble on again demonizing China as much as you possibly can this time it's the Chinese emigrants that is the threat from big bad evil China.

BTW I find interesting that you mention Vietnam, yet you did not address what I had to say in return. Do you find mistreatment and persecution of ethnic Chinese minorities justifiable? Last time I checked Indonesia and Malaysia, two countries that do not border China but still share proximity took atrocious measures to persecute their ethnic Chinese minorities for mere economic prosperity. Were they a political threat too? Oh and China as well as the rest of the world sat by and watched horribly as it happened and no military action was ever taken.

Oh and it's rather amusing that you always bring up Korea into every issue regarding China even if it's completely irrelevant. You should seriously loosen up on your paranoia, it's almost sad listening to you at this point, kinda like listening to those Y2k nutcases. Actions do speak louder than words and your actions amount to merely nothing but typing on a keyboard.

Ultranationalistic Koreans just love to whine. They are making fasle claims on Chinese history such as Koguryo, Bohai, Jin, and Manchus. They are making false claims on Chinese pyramids in Manchuria. They stolen several Chinese Koguryo murals. They are trying to steal Chinese Manchuria by making duboius claims such as Gando. They are stealing Chinese rock in East Sea by making it a artificial island platform. God forbid, the far-sighted Chiarman Mao created the state of Josen People's Republic to check Korean ambition. Pathetic korean nationalists can stop dreaming of creating your so called Altiac Empire of koreanic manchu-mongolia republic. hahaha.....

You got it right there. Certain precedents make China into a big bad evil China. People from big bad evil China causing demographic changes in a region where Russian political control is on the wane. I find good rationale in defining it as a national security threat.



No, I don't find it justifiable. Neither is unilateral invasion of a bordering country justifiable either. Why don't you ask yourself, what would've happened if China won the war? If China took over Vietnam. Quite likely that they would've made another Tibet out of it. But they lost. Just as the Russians pushed them out of Mongolia. And you can clearly see the Chinese government intervening upon persecution of ethnic Chinese when the circumstances permit, as seen in the case of some island that can offer no military resistance to Chinese intervention.



Paranoia? Are you calling people like Nobel-prize winning former president Kim Dae-jung, former director of National Intelligence Services(Korean CIA), former Prime Minister Go Kun, KOTRA and Russian President Putin "paranoid"? Or are these the people who have genuine concerns for the national security of their respective countries? I would put much more weight on the words of these people than some unconvincing excuses from a Chinese apologist.

As you see, unlike you, I live in a democratic country, where opinions of individuals have political power.

Then why does China keep building its military at an exponential rate? I honestly doubt you know whats actually going on in the Chinese government so everything you claim to know can only be hot air.

To the average Chinese: please shut your mouth on issues of politics. You are some of the most brainwashed people on this planet.

Korea is a small Korea and puppet state of America.

^I think it's far better to be a "puppet state" of America than a province of China.

Oh yes China is causing demographic change. Those civilian emigrants and businessmen are all a part of the evil CCP's plan to militarily dominate the world. Nevermind the fact that these civilian business people have no political connection to the CCP whatsoever and are simply taking economic opportunities elsewhere. These evil Chinese immigrants I tell ya just like it was the CCP's political plan to annex Indonesia and Malaysia.



Yet you find it justifiable to label ethnic Chinese immigrants to the RFE as a national security threat, how ironic? YOu know that was exactly the same mentality allowed for the vicious pogroms that the Indonesians and Malaysians made against their ethnic Chinese minorities.



Never said it was.



Sorry I can't predict alternate history.



And if that were indeed the case, China would have taken military action against Indonesia and Malaysia yet that didn't happen at all. Why do you keep avoiding this issue? You keep bringing up the Vietnam example to support your rhetorical argument yet when I bring up an example that clearly counters a rebuttal to it, you just keep ignoring it, simply amazing.



Don't know the Korean guys stories much less care but if they do indeed see Chinese emigrants taking business opportunities and economic benefits in their country as a national military security threat then yes I do see them as paranoid. It reminds of a few right wing Americans blaming all of their unemployment issues on the Mexicans.



Yeah and Pat Buchanan is also genuinely concerned over the national security of his respective country. In fact he's genuinely concerned about survival of western civilization. But I'm pretty sure you know that he's a nutcase.



That doesn't mean much coming from a paranoid, psychotic, ring-wing Korean nutcase hell bent on demonizing China on virtually every aspect and angle possible. You know what I find pretty amusing? You constantly claim that you don't care what Chinese nationalists/apologists think, yet amazingly you spend so much time/effort arguing and trying to promote your cause. It's like you say, "Actions Really do speak louder than words". Do yourself a favor Uncle Sam, stop trying to be Nostradamus.




You mean the bottom half of your country right?



Considering how badly China suffered at the hands of foreigners in the 19th and 20th century, I'd say China has every right to build a powerful military. In fact I'd say it's a necessity. Oh and I like opening my mouth thank you very much.

Wow normally I'd side against China regarding most political issues but even I have to admit, blaming Chinese immigrants as a national security threat to their respective countries is going a bit too extreme. That's just flat out racist if you think about it. No disrespect to you Santa, but seriously you're going a bit too far on this one.

I think you're missing the context. It's not just Chinese immigrants that leads to a national security threat. It's compounded by other various factors, especially the PRC government's precendence of invading other countries. Wouldn't you feel the same, if Chinese immigrants start swarming North Korea by the millions, comprising up to 40~50% of North Korea's population? All the while China has precedents of annexing foreign states, and distorting history to justify such acts. If immigrations can lead to certain political consequences, I believe it can become a national security threat, under a certain context of course. I believe President Putin's statement that the RFE is under national security threat is justified and rational.

Don't look down upon Chinese

China don't want the infertile lands like North Korea

How exactly are Chinese immigrants tied to the PRC government though? You never answered me on this one. Singapore also became majority Chinese due to immigration, is that an act of political annexation from the Chinese government too? Face it your mentality is no different than nutcases like Pat Buchanan who argue that immigrants are destroying the US and western civilization in general.

No, I don't think there is a particular political plan to have these immigrants cause demograhpic changes in RFE, but the PRC can certainly take great advantage of this should they decide to go for a land grab in that region.



I find reason in the assessments of Russians that Chinese immigrants to RFE are a national security threat. Indonesia and Malaysia are a different case, considering that demograhpic change wasn't as serious and there's much less possibilty that China would go for a lanb grab in those areas.



However, precedents such as Tibet and Mongolia serve as good basis upon which such scenarios can be predicted.



Your examples are irrelevant, as they don't border China. Also, I didn't ignore it. I provided another counter example:




In case of Koreans, Chinese immigrations weren't concerned. More like economic integration of North Korea and historical fabrications. It seems Chinese ultranationalists/apologists like yourself always have the habit of calling "China threat" as "paranoid", as if such threat doesn't exist. However, it really does exist with well proven examples like Tibet and Vietnam, and I think it's important that those concerned, such as Koreans, Russians and Mongolians, should be well aware of this threat.



Singapore is pretty distant from China. However, Korea and RFE aren't. And as I've said, immigration itself isn't necessarily a national security threat. It is other various compounding factors that make it into a national security threat. Compounding factors such as China's military capability, proximity, and precedents of making unilateral invasions and annexation of independent states. It is clear that, under certain circumstances, China can attempt to annex RFE and take the region's demographic characteristics to its advantage. Russians are clearly aware of this, and their preventive policies are justified in the interest of their national security.



Oh, do I? You don't see me whining in that pollution thread in Chinese chat, do you? Even though I'm one of those directly concerned. I live in that area. Take your baseless personal attacks elsewhere. I'm pretty sure I can come up with a lot of things to bash China about apart from my usual political criticisms in the interest of my own country's national security.

Which means your theory of strengthening political control is a pile of $hit.



Which is just one form of speculation. Chinese immigrants to the RFE are not going to drastically increase, if anything their position will be similar to ethnic Chinese in many SE Asian countries, a small minority with huge economic leverage under their belts. Oh and as I've already stated, this is not a national security concern. If the Russians intend to mistreat a prosperous minority in their own country, they would be doing themselves the disfavor. If anything I can see racist apartheid policies conducted on Putin's part long before (If ever) a PRC land grab attempt.



Last time I checked, the demographic change in the RFE was nowhere near as drastic as people claim it to be either. Also my Indonesia and Malaysia examples are not irrelevant. You were spewing about how China justified invasion of another country under the pre-text of mistreating Chinese ethnic minorities, if that were indeed the case then China would have surely taken military action against those countries as clearly the Indonesians and Malaysians take no shame in mistreatment and persecution of it's Chinese minorities. The fact that they don't border mean little considering they still share proximity. Also Singapore is a majority Chinese city and it became so through emigration yet when was the last time you heard of China trying to gobble up Singapore?



Well if you're going to argue such past historical precedents, I might as well say that historically Tibet and Mongolia were military threats to China and that the Chinese are genuinely too looking out for their own national security interests.



I wasn't aware of the fact that North Korea allowed emigration.




YAWN this is tiring, whatever you say man, just try not to lose too much sleep over it alone in your bed.

I just don't think any bit of foreign military should be putting up bases in another country. Just my opinion, never know what the future brings with that.

Singapore is majority Chinese. It became majority Chinese through emigration, if anything it would make much more sense for the PRC to claim Singapore than the RFE. You apparently know very little about Singapore and it's history. Oh and the topic of Korea is irrelevant, we are talking about Chinese emigration to the RFE.




Well if that's your logic, then wouldn't Singapore be the natural target? China has the military capability to take it, it shares proximity despite not sharing a border, and on top of that it is majority ethnic Chinese and has been for decades (like I said it became majority Chinese through emigration), yet oddly enough the PRC has never made any claims to that land.



The day China annexes the RFE is the day it annexes Singapore and Indonesia.



It's like I said before, they can do whatever they want in their own country. However actions like government sponsored deportations against a prosperous minority will only damage themselves in the long run and it probably wouldn't look too humane for the rest of the world either.



Too bad for you.



Go for it, it's not like you already don't.

Sorry mods I know I'm going off topic and I'll PM from this point on.