Now in order to prevent people from learning about Vietnam and her beautiful culture, the yellow flaggies once again gravitate toward the abyss of ignorance and hatred. SHAME..SHAME.. SHAME!!!!!




Vietnam college trip sparks outrage in San Jose
SOME SAY EVERGREEN TOUR ENDORSES COMMUNISTS
By Jessie Mangaliman
Mercury News

A vocal and emotional debate about a decades-old foreign war has erupted in San Jose's Vietnamese-American community, threatening to derail a college study trip to Vietnam scheduled for next month.

Tonight, the San Jose Evergreen Community College District's board of trustees will hear from two camps -- students and faculty members who are planning to make the trip and community residents who are impassioned opponents of the government in Hanoi.

As in such conflicts in the past, the region's large Vietnamese community once again is polarized by questions of political allegiance, fueled by accusations that the study trip amounts to an endorsement of Vietnam's communist government.

Coming on the heels of a recent trip to Vietnam by President Bush, the college district's trip underscores the notion that although relations and trade between the two countries are growing, the wounds of war are far from healed.

At least five top district officials, including Chancellor Rosa Perez, have canceled plans to join the study trip, in part to disavow allegations that college officials are planning to meet with Communist Party officials in Vietnam.

Opponents of the trip, led by Tam Nguyen, publisher of Saigon USA, a Vietnamese-language newspaper in San Jose, said the trip is ``being used by the Vietnamese government as propaganda to highlight the success of communism.''

Perez disagreed.

``Our purpose is educational and cultural,'' she said Monday. ``It's not a political program.''

The 12-day trip, scheduled to begin Jan. 4, is part of the district's Global Education Program, a federally funded cultural studies program designed to extend study-abroad programs to California's community colleges. The program consists of cultural and language courses and a short study trip abroad. Last year, students visited Oaxaca, Mexico.

At least 50 people signed up for the upcoming trip, which begins in Ho Chi Minh City. Half of them are students and half are members of the faculty and administration. Students are paying about $500 of the $2,500 cost per person, with the rest paid for with scholarships. Faculty and staff members are paying their own way.

Mai Le Ho, a faculty member at San Jose City College and a co-director of district's Global Education Program, said she fears that the absence of Perez and other officials would send out ``a message that they're not supporting this'' and could lead to the trip's cancellation.

Ho, who said her father worked as a CIA operative during the Vietnam War, said she found the ``bullying tactics'' of opponents of the study trip ``deeply hurtful.''

``These are personal attacks,'' Ho said.

The conflict has been simmering for weeks, beginning when Nguyen and his newspaper, Saigon USA, began publishing articles in Vietnamese about the trip.

``The program was totally misguided,'' Nguyen told the Mercury News. ``This was an opportunity to make ties with communist officials in Vietnam under the guise of education.''

Patricia Nguyen, who teaches English as a second language at San Jose City College, complained that the global studies program was formed with little feedback from school officials or ``a community of Vietnamese-Americans who are against the current regime.''

``Why was this community not informed?'' she said. ``This whole program was developed behind people's backs.''

Ho and the program's other co-director, Nancy Wolfe, denied the charge. They said that the whole program -- focused on cultural and language courses, and not focused strictly on Vietnam -- included suggestions and ideas from many sectors of the community, students and faculty.

Schools such as De Anza College and Mission College have had trips abroad for years, including trips to Vietnam.

Gemma Whelan, a theater instructor at Evergreen College called the claims by Saigon USA ``ridiculous and totally laughable.'' Tam Nguyen's call to cancel the trip ``is a threat to academic freedom and freedom of speech,'' she said.

Perez said that even if trustees don't attend, ``there's no question that the trip is taking place.'' But at tonight's meeting, she said she hopes to clarify that GEO is not affiliated in any way with Vietnam's government.

After several meetings with Tam Nguyen and others opposed to the Vietnam trip, Perez said, ``I accept that we did not do a full outreach to the entire community to reach the diverse perspectives.''

In response to accusations that the district has a ``one-sided curriculum'' on Vietnam, Perez said forums on the experiences of the Vietnamese under communist rule will be included in school activities in the future.

``I'm not for or against communism,'' said Alba Guzman, 21, a third-year student at Evergreen Community College, who is planning to make the trip.

``We're not disrespecting anyone,'' she said, ``We're just trying to educate ourselves about the world.''

Hear hear !!!

I am all for diversity of opinions but some of these dinosaurs are no less than fascists. They are about 10 times more brainwashed than even the worst Commies

I really don't see how a cultural trip to Viet Nam is an endorsement of Marxism-Leninism, but I guess for some the wounds will never heal.

I don't care if people still hate the communist and are against the government but being ignorant like that is a SHAME !!

Basically, it goes to show that the loudest voices are not necessarily the wisest. And this episode shows once against why VNCH was just doomed.

yo all got it right.. these extremists have been tearing our community apart for 30 years and now as if that's not enough they are pushing for an agenda that discourages foreigners to learn about our culture and country.

i was reading this news this morning and i was so pissed... radical yellow flaggies like Tam Nguyen et al. obviously seek to screw the image our community in the eyes of Americans.

despicable to the Viet's blood!!!

I hate those people
They are just a bunch of whining loser
All they ever do is going around accuse people for being Communist or Communist Endorsement. Like a Vietnamese Joe Mccarthy, except they are against there own kind!

I have a feeling that these yellow flag wavers check their beds every night to make sure Ho Chi Minh isn't hiding there to kill them in their sleep.

I have a feeling Vietnam would have had better media spotlight in the past if it wasn't for whiny Yellow Flag Wavers.

Mọi người có vẻ lăn tăn nhiều quá nhỉ. Kể ra thì cũng đáng tiếc, nhưng cái tính cứng đầu, cứng cổ ăn vào máu mấy người Việt thế hệ cũ rồi (không có thì bị thằng Trung quốc đồng hóa từ lâu rồi). Có chăng là chờ thế hệ sau thôi, độ này mấy bác Việt kiều trẻ cũng ít bị nhồi sọ hơn thì phải (đùa tí thôi nhé, đừng giẫy nẩy lên). Thời gian là câu trả lời, nhưng dù sao thì cũng ủng hộ sự nhiệt tình của các bác.

not all viet anti-communists are like that so stfu.. nobody just woke up one day and decided to become anti-communist

Vietnamese people are more divided than North and South Koreans. I mean communism is so great, look at North Korea.

No they're not.

It's mostly Vietnamese and Vietnamese OVersea. If you haven't realized the majority of members in this forum that are in Vietnam right now are from Saigon.

This thread should be closed

I personally don't support communist but wtf are their problems trying to discourage foreigners to learn about our country and culture ?

Oh please close this thread... talking like this could be an insult to someone.

That wouldn't make sense. Was I mistaken in thinking that Saigon was the most anti-communist city in all of Vietnam? And the Vietnamese overseas are anti-communist too?

???? ..............what a bunch of FFFF, no offence, but seriously, there are somthin wrong with their brain.
We are living in the year of 2006, not in the 1960s or 1970s.
WHy dun you people go and protest all of those camp trips to Germany (to study Nazism)?? or to China????
G*U*FYUFVGLKHN:L

The insult lies in the stupid, counterproductive behavior and not in the comments on that stupid, counterproductive behavior.


The problem is with what you think you know vs. what the reality is. Overseas Vietnamese opinion ranges from anti-Communist to pro-Communist, often within the same family.

before fighting with the communists, fight to the corruption first.
democracy spirit all the wayyyyyy

I might think it's ridiculous for me to say this but everybody and everyone have their on perspective and opinion. You might think it's stupid but they might not. Please don't judge them.

Please no more! I'm anti-communism but I will say i don't say people that have different believe and opinion. All we need to know is that we are people from one country, one culture, one history, one community and we are one! Vietnam will never be able to be as succesful as other country if people keep on fighting like this. I know many older generation over sea alway in there have some hope that one day they would have their revenge but what the point. Why killing when we all can accept it and live with it. Everybody ideas are important but don't kill each other over it. It's just sad......

this is more like SaigonUSA exploiting the Viet Community to sell newspaper than anything else. I don't know much about the story but if you go to their website, there are many similar stories where they like to "chup mu" people or an organization. their action is not helping the anti-communist at at if they keep this up. we need all the help we can get but thing like this only create division and distance among participants. if Saigon USA is to be a newspaper, they need to stop this tabloid $hit......

again, anti-commie comes in many forms and I'm not sure if SaigonUSA is anti-commie or not if they keep up with this $hit.

edit: for the creator of this post to say anti-communists are "RIDICULOUSLY IGNORANT", do you mean all anti-commies or SaigonUSA who if you read the article been trying to create story out of this trip. and again, you and I don't know these people. please don't "chup mu" like Saigon USA is doing to people

I was born and raised in Vietnam. Its hard to see how our communist country compared to others such as US, Europe, Japan...They are such great nation. I don't support communists, but it doesn't mean that I don't support my country. There are a lot of ppl in my area going around and bull$hitting about how Vietnam was accepted into WTO. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with those people? Always saying stuffs like bring freedom this and that? Honestly, stop being hypocrite. What did these people really do? At first, it sounds good. But then, I am tired of those whom talk too much without taking actions. Even when they do, spearhead is always toward our people. They actually stop our country in the development with the world.

lol Wow i think the same the first tiem everi heard someone talk about bringing freedom It sound liek a fantastic idea, but later on i heard it so many time i doubt that they can do it anymore. But I would tell you not to be rude to those people. Most older generation have deep pain in their heart. I think they have the right to dream and the right to hope one day they can do it even though i don't think that would ever be reality. I was borned in vietnam. I live there until i'm 7. The only problem i see is that citizen work hard but never seem to be rich .....or atleast have money. My mom work hard she's a farmer. She walk all the way sooooo far to sell stuff and everyday i saw her comng home all sweaty tire with her skinny arm carrying a basket every afternoon it almsot can make me cry. My dad is pretty much useless, he is a acholic and don't have a job or go to work at all. My mom alway get stress out and would pretty much turn crazy sometime. All my brothers go to work at the constructin place and they would come home and there face is completely WHITE I mean as in super super white. And they only got pay...something around $20 USD a month...........we can't do living or even enough money for me to go to school. But that is just because none of my parent get to get a college degree or something like that.

Of course I know. Dude, I swear. If they know where I am after reading that, hahaha I probably go to the moutain to live with monkeys for the rest of my life. They will do whatever to make me become a communist. Anyways, is this really "story of your life"? It must be very hard for your family then But I guess everything got better when you came here right?

lol living monkey might not be the brightest idea you have ^_^ Yes it's comepletely a truth story. Yeah well. I don't go to sleep hungry most night. over here in US, I don't sleep on hard bed. My family all have cars. we live in a better place where ican go to school all my family get jobs and get paid a fairly well. It's just that Everybody here in US just like robot our family hardly see each other anymore. I miss VN lol .....It just make me feel better to see people the same race lol...

majority of people in Vietnam are very poor and work very hard for their money unlike you know who.
I hope you study hard and get a good education and help your family out. and hope someday soon majority of people in Vietnam have a better life economically,politically and socially. Freedom, justice, and democracy for ALL.

this is your favorite line?

Thanks ^_^.I think VN will after we get more education and more bussiness until then VN will expand and more people will get jobs and live in better life...I hope >.<



I support him....This thread should be close ...before we flame all over the place...

obviously a flame bait.. it's 12am and still this thread isn't closed lol.

Well I hope you and your family do well now. So how did you come over here? Was it from the HO program?

Ba que are not "ridiculously ignorant". They're just sore losers who are hypocritically singing the flame bait song. Well, at least this protest didn't cost their own kind $100K unlike the protest against the Tran Truong incident's documentary in Little Saigon . However, I'll do ba que a favor by telling the mod to move it to the serious chat. It'll be as good as dead there.

thanks, Uhm....i was pretty young so i'm not pretty sure but i think you're right...

Death better than red . Viet by birth , but American by choice ! That 's my attitude

I must say it is amusing reading through this topic.

From what I can see, most of the participants who are screaming 'yellow flag wavers' and hypocrits (me_me-me) are young. Too young to know much about the workings of the world, and probably too young to even know about their own countries. Or rather have only been post 1975 educated.

You see, there are millions of Vietnamese overseas. The majority of these people ended up overseas because of the war, so most of these people endured extreme hardship, personal loss and suffering, beyond any young kids within this forum can even imagine. So to call them 'haters' and other things is unwarranted, or rather unqualified.

These displaced people lost their homes, jobs, family members, everything because of a war. They had to endured hardship, difficulties and suffering to build themselves up in a new land. Their homeland, everything they had was taken away from them, so being anti communist, still feeling hurt and resentment is only fair.

You are quick to bash there 'yellow' flag haters, but little do you even know the lives of these people. Or rather the lives that were taken away from these people when tanks rolled in in 1975.....

and THOSE people are too old or too out-of-date to understand that we youngsters dun giv a SH*T about history, we just want to create peace. seriously we dun giv a sh*t about what happen in the past. we just want to build a better world and gain better understand of each other.

blah blah blah we dun giv a sh*t about the past. ok???

TU HAI GIAI HUYNH DE!

lol its a community college

are the reds still spitting their "3 que" this "3 qua" that non sense? lol thought it got pretty old after a bit.



speak for yourself, you are not everybody. aparently there are a lot of people that give a $hit.

"bla bla freedom bla bla bla democracy!"

"bla bla VNCH muon nam bla bla da dao cong sang bla bla freedom bla bla democracy!"

we Viets need to live in the presence, not in the past.

before fighting with the communists, fight to the corruption first.
democracy spirit all the wayyyyyy

"Shut up evil corrupt VC dog/pig!"


I love uncle Nguyen Van Thieu and master Uncle Sam!

Freedom and democracy woof woof woof.

Ok lets keep the discussion calm and considerate of different view point.

I fully understand why some of you don't like these protestors. Action like protesting at the community college can divide us vietnamese. Furthermore brings back pain from our horrible war past, which can cause pain in some people.
A point of view to consider is that community colleges are for the individuals in the community, so if they don't like a program that the college is conducting, then members of the community can have a voice. Afterall, it is these members that pay the taxes.
As some of you pointed out, these people did not sudenly become anticommunist. Most of them had horrible experience with communism during the war. As for myself three of my uncles(civilians) where killed by communist forces during the Tet Offensive of 1968 in Hue. My uncles were burried alive tied by barb wire, but I don't have any kind of hatred.

Anyways this is just my point of view. Trust me, once vietnam is reformed we will all forget everything, and i mean everything so that vietnam will no longer have the hate. Lastly, no personal attack please. I considered all view points above valid, so be considerate.

Hello? Anti-Commies? Anti-whom? Democracy? Hello? American-style?

Giời ạ. Đọc mấy cái post này đúng là thấy buồn cười quá.

Các bác sống ở bên Mỹ, phải biết Mỹ là một nước lớn, dân trí nói chung là cao hơn Việt Nam, dân chủ kiểu Mỹ là tốt rồi.

Việt Nam nước nhỏ, dân trí không đồng đều. Bây giờ mà dân chủ kiểu Mỹ thì không phục vụ mục tiêu phát triển kinh tế. Thứ hai là bị các nước lớn thao túng, hoặc là biến thành 1 loại hình dân chủ dân túy. Điều này hẳn các bác thích chắc? Hay là các bác muốn Việt Nam thành 1 tiểu bang của Mỹ :p

Đọc post của mấy bác (một số thôi nhé, tôi không đánh đồng tất cả) trong này thấy tội nghiệp quá, qua Mỹ được ăn học đầy đủ, thế mà chỉ biết vơ vào hô hào dân chủ rồi chống Cộng, mà ít hiểu về quá trình phát triển dân chủ và vị thế địa chính trị của Việt Nam.

Good point. Vietnamese being Vietnamese, there are stupid, ignorant, narrow-minded people with tunnel vision with both VNCH and non-VNCH points of view. By the same token, there are also good, honorable people wiho hold either point of view. I don't mind bickering - it beats war and killing any day of the week. And at the end of the day, everyone comes home to his or her family alive and well, and ready for another round of bickering the next day.

We are the Vietnamese: we have the world's second highest rate of economic growth. We have built some of the strongest overseas communities in the world. Our top overseas professionals can stand up with the best of the best anywhere in the world. We believe in equal rights for women and minorities. We believe in good governance and democracy. If bickering is our worst defect, I can live easily with that

Good to see that the future of Vietnam is in good hands, especially with people like yourself....

You talk all high and mighty about the past meaning nothing. But little, and yes very little, do you even understand how the past affects the Vietnam of today. It is because of ill educated and over opinionated fools like you that the future of Vietnam is unstable.

You might argue that everythings improving in VN, the economy etc... but look around you. How many people are equally sharing in the wealth. Only a small number... the rich are getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the corrupt are getting worse. Wake up and smell the air....

The past does matter... because the current political system still lives in the past. You need to understand history to really understand how is it affecting us now.

Please people be aware of politics.
Because of politics, the Vietnamese are unreasonably in war for years and deaths.

Leave politics, the yellow flag and the red flag out.

If you would like to discuss about it, open a topic and we will discuss. People in US or VNCH, please do not attack or blame the people in Vietnam for defending Communists. They are innocent. They grew up with the Communists and they had to love the governments. No matter how much you attack the Communists, they will defend the Communists more. It will create more hatred among you people, especially the Vietnamese.

Talking about "ill educate and overly opinionated" you're the prime example of someone who's chewing your own tail. You are saying that the rich are getting richer, the poor getting poorer but you know shiet about Vietnam's economy. The Economist, a highly skeptical paper with their intelligent unit recently praises Vietnam for their "impressively egalitarian" (ie social equality) in comparison to growth economies like India and China. In terms of life expectancy and infant mortality rate, Vietnam performs better than Thailand, a richer country in term of GDP per capita and in regarding to secondary education, Vietnam surpasses China, Indonesia, and India. Vietnam's effort for proverty reduction has been consistently appraised by UN, World Bank, etc... as paragon that 3rd world country should follow.

Source: http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=7252940

Please be informed and realize that the Viet anti-communists oversea are self-serving while putting on a mask of "democracy and freedom" to hide their jealousy and quite frankly their inferiority. Young people these days are smart enough to think for themselves and they need not to endorse these kinds of destructive thinking.















These people pay taxes but that do not mean that they have the right to exercise their ignorance over others or dictate others to their point of view. That's just plain ridiculous. Anyway, from the spectator's view what's happening in San Jose is simply bad image for the community.

why I keep hearing this over and over again??? how the consequence of war is traumatic.. blah..blahh!!! get on with this for the love of Vietnam and for youself (i think it's actually healthy for you from the psychological edge). Communists and non-communists alike all suffered during the war. People move on will make their lives better whereas people who stucked with the past will evidently self-destroy.

Even if these people still resent, let them freely enjoyed the bliss of their resentment but don't spread hatred and toxicate our young generation with all these nonsenses.

[quote name='forgeCool' date='Dec 13 2006, 11:37 PM' post='2566390']
Talking about "ill educate and overly opinionated" you're the prime example of someone who's chewing your own tail. You are saying that the rich are getting richer, the poor getting poorer but you know shiet about Vietnam's economy. The Economist, a highly skeptical paper with their intelligent unit recently praises Vietnam for their "impressively egalitarian" (ie social equality) in comparison to growth economies like India and China. In terms of life expectancy and infant mortality rate, Vietnam performs better than Thailand, a richer country in term of GDP per capita and in regarding to secondary education, Vietnam surpasses China, Indonesia, and India. Vietnam's effort for proverty reduction has been consistently appraised by UN, World Bank, etc... as paragon that 3rd world country should follow.


Wow.... good to see that you read publications like the economist, and sit in front university lawns...makes you the know all of economics, politics and history. Wish I could sit around wearing a yellow star t-shirt....

Oh, and next time if you choose to include so called 'facts' try to include everything... cause you forgot to mention that Vietnam has one of the highest abortion rates in the world, and obviously you know Vietnam's ranking in the worlds most corrupt places to conduct business....

I actually work in Vietnam and contribute to the society, more than just sitting around on lawns. So for your skanky @$$ to assume that I know $hit, is like you still going through puberty. I deal with the corruption everyday, I see the failing education system everyday, I see beggers crawling through the streets when people drive by in their mercedes, I see the wealth disparity. You must be so confused by your yellow star t-shirt wearing, that you only select to read what people give you, rather than base your writing on real information on the ground...